/in-Vitational Game 4 (Game Over!)

[elvis_knits]

Really? "4 scum plus a traitor" was supposed to be sarcastic? I didn't get that at all. Has that been what others have been assuming all along?

I honestly don't see the humor there. Like, what is the joke?

[Kmd4390]

It's not an attempt at humor. Like I said, it's me being a sarcastic prick. Like a "how can you possibly make a definitive statement like what you'd have to in order to answer that question. Ok, like this." kind of thing.

[elvis_knits]

I still don't understand the interaction there... like what you thought I was signaling and what you thought you were playing back to me. It doesn't make sense to me why you thought I was joking... or what my joke would be.

I really don't consider myself a fail humor person, but I don't get this.

[Xylthixlm]

You were accusing him of having secret knowledge because he said something that was too specific, so he made it

more

specific.

Well, it looked sarcastic to me.

[Kmd4390]

I didn't think you were joking. I thought you were asking a .. loaded(?) question. Basically, I think the question was more of an accusation than a question. One with no right answer. One that makes someone look scummy regardless of how they answer it. So I answered with sarcasm.

[alexhans]

Ctrl-F Alex...
Answering...

Also, it does not make a lot of sense for Xyl and BNB to be buddies anyway since she started the wagon.

Shit, you're right. Scum can't start wagons on each other in the RVS. Damn.

That's right, because the first waggon of the game always ends with a lynch...

I was using sarcasm to show how bad EK's statement was.

Me too. His thought process is lame.

Right now I find Elvis to be scum. Her vote on Xyl was opportunistic, and her attack on KMD was desperate, shallow and reaching. What do you think about that?

I didn't like Elvis attack either. But I'm not gonna rule on his allignment just yet. I need to read this game and see what feelings to I get from each players so far.

Alexhans feels very relaxed in his first posts. I know he plays on irc, though. How experienced would you consider yourself alex?

My fellow south american... Are you spying on me?

What's your nick on IRC? Or did you find me because of my sig?

I'm experienced enough to find scum. I'm not a newbie. I don't have a big sample of games (10 aprox) but I'm confident in my skills and have read practically all the mafiawiki.
IRC may have helped me learn a lot about balance.

Last, but not least, it's not that I'm relaxed but I've been pretty busy this last couple of days so I haven't been able to post much in MS. Once I come back from my trip this will hopefully change.

Bye!

[elvis_knits]

You were accusing him of having secret knowledge because he said something that was too specific, so he made it

more

specific.

Well, it looked sarcastic to me.

Damn Xyl you have jedi mind powers.

Why didn't anyone say this sooner? Like why didn't KMD say this sooner when I proved serious and voted him for this?? WTF.

[Kmd4390]

Seemed obvious. *shrug*

[Ojanen]

Strongest opinion so far: the elvis wagon is bad.
The "4 scum and a traitor" response to her question was not formatted like an assumption. I did not pick up on it being sarcasm.
It struck me out as weird. I'm not finding it a probable slip, after this talk about it, but elvis seems zealous town more than anything.

There were also some weird responses about it,

Elvis's case on KMD is reaching. He is definitely competent enough to be aware of whether he is suggesting a particular number of scum, so I'm pretty sure it's not a slip.

Regardless of Kmd's awareness, he did suggest a number, this almost seems to say he didn't suggest one.

Why doesn't it sound like an assumption? Would scum really say "yeah, I know the number of scum. It's right here in my Role PM." Nah. (Yes, I'm using WIFOM and to defend myself no less. Deal with it.)

Cause it just doesn't. Dunno about scumslip, but it's just not formatted like an assumption.

Also, Xyl 105. Goes on about possible numbers of scum and says "anything more than 4 or 5 is overthinking it" but fails to mention if he thinks Kmd made a slip or not, although his position could somewhat suggest it.

charter 154 was solid. BaB change of mind on prompt was strange and the later "I sat 5 minutes and thought about it" explanation doesn't feel honest to me.

I don't understand why you are not attacking Elvis. Elvis has almost as many votes as me, and she's been ignoring the votes on her. You staying off of her wagon is odd

Is odd, cause charter clearly had many more reasons to vote BaB, which he elaborated on.

Elvis- Started out with the "last to confirm" tell. I usually see that as an excuse to look like you are scumhunting. After you throw those names out, you joke around a little without voting for a few posts. Not even a vote on those last players to confirm that you pointed out. Then you have a random vote with no reason, just to replace it with a joke reason next post. This is where I vote you and you go all OMGUS "SCUM SLIP YOU SAID WE HAVE 4 SCUM. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT" on me.

This seemed way more malicious and overrepresenting than what elvis did.

I'm not crazy about Herodotus being asked the same question thrice and ignoring it until the third time.

For the moment BaB wagon seems good. I dislike his actions arouind Elvis in whole.

vote: BridgesabdBaloons

I'm not thinking Kmd's slip was a probable legitimate slip after reading all the stuff but

FoS: Kmd

for the reaction.


This game started on a not-good week for me. Sorry, but

V/LA probably until Monday

. I'll be participating full-force starting next week.

[Xylthixlm]

*twitch*

unvote, vote Ojanen

I'm not sure why, it just feels like the right thing to do. Thanks for asking.

[charter]

Well, I was more of asking to post something worth posting, like a response
to votes on you, instead of posts like 148.

You make no sense. How am I supposed to respond to an attack with no reasoning behind it?

You can't. I guess I expected you to try and figure out why you were getting so many votes.

cuz i think what he did was sort of scummy and I thought other people would vote him. Why is my (apparently wrong) assumption scummy?

I'm not sure it's necessarily scummy, but it's questionable that you try and further Xyl's wagon by unvoting.

[Yosarian2]

Hey Yos, why are you voting Shabba?

You know, I actually specifically mentioned why I was keeping my vote on Shabba only about an hour before you asked this question.

Site keeps crashing today. Will make this post short so I don't lose a big post.

Right now, I'm pretty happy with my shanba vote. She's lurking, and her one post seems unhelpful to me.

If I were to join one of the big wagons, it would probably be the Xyl one, but I'm in no rush at the moment.

...ok, so due to a brain fart I said shanba instead of shabba, but you knew what I meant.

I'm really wondering about you, Xyl. Why would you ask a question I had just answered right before you posted? Are you reading the game here?

[charter]

I'm not sure it's necessarily scummy, but it's questionable that you try and further Xyl's wagon by unvoting.

should be
I'm not sure it's necessarily scummy, but it's questionable that you try and further Xyl's wagon

while

unvoting.

[Xylthixlm]

I'm really wondering about you, Xyl. Why would you ask a question I had just answered right before you posted? Are you reading the game here?

I know I read that post because I remember going "shanba? oh, he meant shabba", but apparently it did not sink in. Meh.

[Herodotus]

@Herodotus--what are your feelings on ekiM, particularly his 'one of these 5 are scum' post?

Saying that "at least one of these five players is scum" isn't very meaningful, though of course the odds suggest he's probably right. (For comparison, I think that with 4 scum among 20, a random selection of just three people has a 51% chance of containing scum.) Other than that, I haven't paid much attention to him until now.
After review in ISO:
His calling others out for lurking in 3 was premature, especially given that he wasn't megaposting himself.
"Strange behavior" is a poor reason for placing a vote. (Temporarily) unexplained votes are occasionally okay, but when you give a reason, you should be able to say why you think it is an indicator of scumminess. So,

ekim

, was BaB's strangeness scum-motivated or a scum-tell?

I don't. Any comments from me right now beyond what I've said would be a distraction more than anything else. I could start calling some people probable-town, but don't see much point in that so far. I could make some other accusations, but I'd rather see more pages first.

BTW, I really hate this post. Scum excuses to not participate irk me.

Your phrasing is putting the cart ahead of the horse. My reason for not commenting on everything is not scum-motivated. I prefer to focus on the things that I think really matter. At this point, there are more things worth paying attention to.

A question: In KMD's several references to a traitor, is it possible that he is trying to communicate some sort of information about the makup of the scumteam to the traitor? (I'm assuming from the role PMs on page 1 that the mafia members know who the traitor is, but the traitor only knows who the GF is.)

Can't open links on this computer... People link me on AIM all the time and I have to tell them it doesn't work.

I find this difficult to accept. Please explain this technical limitation.

Why didn't anyone say this sooner? Like why didn't KMD say this sooner when I proved serious and voted him for this?? WTF.

Seemed obvious. *shrug*

That's pretty much what I said. No offense intended, Elvis, but I thought it was clear that KMD was joking around... which is why I doubted the sincerity of your case on him. You seem to have given an explanation which I can accept, though only by giving you the benefit of doubt, so I'll be keeping an eye on you.

unvote

Elvis's case on KMD is reaching. He is definitely competent enough to be aware of whether he is suggesting a particular number of scum, so I'm pretty sure it's not a slip.

Regardless of Kmd's awareness, he did suggest a number, this almost seems to say he didn't suggest one.

No, he suggested a number (sort of. He made a list of four, then after being questioned about having four names, went for the number.) I just think he was conscious of it, in other words, it's not a slip.

Why doesn't it sound like an assumption? Would scum really say "yeah, I know the number of scum. It's right here in my Role PM." Nah. (Yes, I'm using WIFOM and to defend myself no less. Deal with it.)

Cause it just doesn't. Dunno about scumslip, but it's just not formatted like an assumption.

What does this mean?

Stupid question: didn't people explain why they were voting BaB as they wagoned him? Wasn't it his HoS and then later vote on Elvis? I may not consider that a meritorious case, but why are people talking about it as if no reason was given?

[Shabba]

1.

Scum, use that time wisely... Because once I'm back...
You're doomed...

Does anyone see this as overplayed?

2.

Right now, I'm pretty happy with my shanba vote. She's lurking, and her one post seems unhelpful to me.
If I were to join one of the big wagons, it would probably be the Xyl one, but I'm in no rush at the moment.

Unfortunately, I haven't had any time at all recently. Why are you in no rush to join the Xyl wagon?

3.
I find all of the late-confirm-last-confirm stuff silly.

4.

I'm not feeling scum from BAB.

Why?

5.
I would like to have a sock puppet that looks like a llama.

6.
Herodotus: Why can't "strange behavior" be used as justification for placing a vote early in a game?

7.
Thesp: Tell me more about why you like the BaB wagon.

8.

Strongest opinion so far: the elvis wagon is bad.

Rate the strength of your opinion from 1-10...one being weak and 10 being certain....


Ugh...my attention span can't take long posts well, even when I'm the author. Time for night-night.

[charter]

I add Shabba to my list of suspects for that post because #1 is scummy as hell and because she asks for four people's opinions on wagons but has given no opinion on anyone herself.

[Herodotus]

Herodotus: Why can't "strange behavior" be used as justification for placing a vote early in a game?

It can. But if the vote isn't random, the question is whether the voter has some reason to think the strange behavior is an indication of a scum role.

@Serialclergyman:
Your sig notes that you've been prodded only once. Are you concerned about getting a second prod?

@iamausername:
Other than announcing that you didn't vote for Xyl in your last post, do you have any opinions on anyone?

[Claus]

I'm kinda busy this saturday, so don't expect a detailed post from me. Also I'll be under heavy V/LA between the 20 and 24th, would anyone like to be my proxy in the period?

I want to take the time to read elvis defenses more carefully. In the meanwhile, Elvis, would you make a list of the 4 most scum-looking players for you? (If you already did it, just pointing to the post is enough).

VP_Baltar - the "malicious" means mainly that Elvis misrep KMD on the "certain/assumed" thing. I think I have explained it in my answer to her. Repeating a simple word over and over may be a vice from me being ESL.

I'd like to hear more from yos. I mean, much more. He has managed not to comment on the 4 big wagon cases and all the collateral accusations, at the same time keeping a serious-but-not-pushing vote on a lurker.

Sitting in the background: This is what I have seen Yos-scum do in the games I have played with him, and what I have seen Yos-town not do the games I've read him in.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Stupid question: didn't people explain why they were voting BaB as they wagoned him? Wasn't it his HoS and then later vote on Elvis? I may not consider that a meritorious case, but why are people talking about it as if no reason was given?

Because, most people didn't explain their reasons. Look at my post 151 , where I quoted the portions of the posts where the people who voted for me "explained" their votes. They really didn't (except thesp and Charter. And now you can add Ojanen to that list. She said she didn't like my behavior with E_K While, that's obviously an incredibly vague explanation, I can't say she didn't at least

offer

an explanation.)
--------

I'm not sure it's necessarily scummy, but it's questionable that you try and further Xyl's wagon

while

unvoting.

I just want to reiterate the fact that you're voting me for something that's not "necessarily scummy, but it's questionable."



Now, if you thought I was scum because of my vote on E_K, that's a completely different story. That'd actually be something I could defend myself against. But there's no way for me to defend against "odd" "questionable" behavior. I just don't understand the wagon on me. I think Thesp is the only one who might have a good reason, and he's still withholding it.

[inHimshallibe]

@KMD: No.

Willing to hop to Yos. I like Claus' post, and I had Yos on my short list.

[Kmd4390]

Can't open links on this computer... People link me on AIM all the time and I have to tell them it doesn't work.

I find this difficult to accept. Please explain this technical limitation.

They freeze up my computer because they open a new window.

[zu_Faul]

i get the feeling kmd/bridges found themselves in a 4 person scumgroup, assumed that the sample role pms would simply state as much and therefore presented the information. upon discovering that the sample pms actually account for up to five scum, they are both now struggling to come up with reasons why they assumed 4, with such charming excuses as "i thought there were only 16 players." really? you haven't been paying attention to the more than a month long game placement process and announcement which very clearly indicated you had been placed in a 20 person game with only people who you were interested in playing with, or at the very least were not adverse to playing with? i don't buy it.

This sounds awfully constructed. Paying attention to the number of players is mandatory, but paying attention to te role pms is not? And the fact that it is a 20-player game has not been a "month-long process". That has only been established a short time ago

Really? "4 scum plus a traitor" was supposed to be sarcastic? I didn't get that at all. Has that been what others have been assuming all along?

I honestly don't see the humor there. Like, what is the joke?

I thought the sarcasm was obvious. Maybe you should take a step back more often.


I am up to post 205.

[charter]

I'm not sure it's necessarily scummy, but it's questionable that you try and further Xyl's wagon

while

unvoting.

I just want to reiterate the fact that you're voting me for something that's not "necessarily scummy, but it's questionable."

Now, if you thought I was scum because of my vote on E_K, that's a completely different story. That'd actually be something I could defend myself against. But there's no way for me to defend against "odd" "questionable" behavior. I just don't understand the wagon on me. I think Thesp is the only one who might have a good reason, and he's still withholding it.

Not even a good strawman, I gave multiple reasons I thought you were suspicious. To try and pretend like this is the only one isn't going to fool many people.

[zu_Faul]

Well charter, your reason was not very good in the first place, was it? That is what BAB was trying to say here.

I am up to date. I don't buy the BAB wagon anymore.