Mini 1597: Runecast Mafia - Day 5

[Untrod Tripod]

We all know this.
I agree it's dumb and said so in my setup spec.
That said - I was still able to figure that out and *still* was mislead by the setup info. That's the issue with the setup. As long as it can be reasoned it's not such a bad thing because the mod never claimed that NAR would be followed, so it is not a failure of the setup.

it's still shenanigans

[LynxKuroneko]

I thought I did, but... Eh. Didn't seem like you'd care for anything I said, really.

And Konowa - shame. You were a strong player until the final day, where you just sat and watched. Why?

[Thor665]

We all know this.
I agree it's dumb and said so in my setup spec.
That said - I was still able to figure that out and *still* was mislead by the setup info. That's the issue with the setup. As long as it can be reasoned it's not such a bad thing because the mod never claimed that NAR would be followed, so it is not a failure of the setup.

it's still shenanigans

I do not disagree, I am openly stating frustration with the setup.
I just want to be clear about what is or is not actual shenanigans. Not following NAR is annoying...but with no clear claim on that to the contrary, and with no one having asked, it is fine. Also, as noted, from results I, a town player, was able to puzzle out that NAR was not being followed - that makes it workable.

What the issue is - is giving scum an investigation immune redirector and thinking that is legit and balanced. Functionally town had two investigation roles, and scum were almost totally immune to one and a third immune to another while also having powerful abilities and the role names making it difficult to even understand the town roles (like, seriously, go read Ger's role and tell me that you understand he was only strong willed on Night 3)

This setup had issues, I will agree with that.

I thought I did, but... Eh. Didn't seem like you'd care for anything I said, really.

And Konowa - shame. You were a strong player until the final day, where you just sat and watched. Why?

You "thought" you did? Where? Because you seem to be quoting it to me and I still don't see the catch.
Also, i pointed out issues with that, and you didn't mention to me that it was a gambit and had caught Ansuz then either.
That was probably poor communication on your part, yeah? That's my advice - work on that.

[Desperado]

I don't think we were investigation immune

[Thor665]

Did you investigate as Redirector?

[Desperado]

Our ability at the time of investigation was our factional kill is my assumption

[Desperado]

Maybe wait for ffery to explain what happened before calling shenanigans?

[Thor665]

Did you have a redirect *ability* and were investigated by an *ability* cop?
Did that redirect ability show up to the investigation?

[Thor665]

hiplop, a Vanilla Town, lynched Day 1
Josh B, a Mafia Goon, lynched Day 2

geraintm, a Town One Shot Strong-Willed Vigilante/Day 1 Vengeful, Killed Night 2
Mantisdreamz, aTown Ability Cop, Killed Night 2

Burning_Earth, a Mafia Ascetic, lynched Day 3

kthxbye, a Odd Night Hider, died Night 3
tunnelmates, One Shot Inventor/Bodyguard, died Night 3
Osseus Pseudotripodus, town doctor, lynched Day 4.

d3x - died Night 4
Lynx - lynched Day 5

I'm just going to highlight the kills that, functionally, scum controlled this game.

[Thor665]

hiplop, a Vanilla Town, lynched Day 1
Josh B, a Mafia Goon, lynched Day 2

geraintm, a Town One Shot Strong-Willed Vigilante/Day 1 Vengeful, Killed Night 2
Mantisdreamz, aTown Ability Cop, Killed Night 2

Burning_Earth, a Mafia Ascetic, lynched Day 3

kthxbye, a Odd Night Hider, died Night 3
tunnelmates, One Shot Inventor/Bodyguard, died Night 3
Osseus Pseudotripodus, town doctor, lynched Day 4.

d3x - died Night 4
Lynx - lynched Day 5

I'm just going to highlight the kills that, functionally, scum controlled this game.

[Thor665]

And I missed d3x there actually.

The point being - town functionally got 4 lynches and had 50% accuracy and lost due to an investigation result.

[Thor665]

And that's with scum failing a kill.
And we still could have sorted it save for the investigation.
And with the scum abilities - correct town play is punished on the part of the Hider.

[Untrod Tripod]

eh there was some talk in the deadthread

I can't remember what kthx said, but he might not have gotten redirected

I don't remember though, let's wait for the mod

[fferyllt]

Full runecast and interpretation to come, but I am not going to lock the game thread and make you wait.

LynxKuroneko - Uruz - a

Town Universal Backup who became ability cop

- was lynched on Day 5

Thor665 - Perthro -

Town Revenant

was endgamed on Day 5

Konowa - Wunjo - a

Town Conditional Loved/Hated Post Restricted

- was endgamed on Day 5

The

Mafia team

of Josh_B,

Mafia Goon

, Burning_Earth,

Mafia Ascetic

, and Ansuz,

Mafia Redirector

- win!

I'll post associated private threads later today.

[fferyllt]

So you did have a redirect power then? That an ability cop couldn't detect?
Because otherwise I hate the players.

Yes and I guess so? We probably showed as killing because she didn't investigate us until we were the last one remaining

@Ffrey - hate you.

The way it actually worked was that for a player with multiple abilities the ability cop results was randomly selected from their abilities.

If Ansuz had stuck with their original fake claim request (1-shot cop) they would have been found out either way the coin toss went for the investigation.

I think it was a swingy game and it was set up such that early claims would hurt town. Scum had a counter to almost everything this powerful town had going for them, and they made some really fortuitous decisions.

Re NAR, I would have revealed that I wasn't using NAR if anyone had asked.

I thought one of your questions would actually sink Ansuz today - when you asked if the ability cop could get factional abilities back. I said yes to that.

[Bert]

Thanks for the game, guys and gals!

Congratulations evil people!!

[Thor665]

The way it actually worked was that for a player with multiple abilities the ability cop results was randomly selected from their abilities.

I would like to see the ability cop's role PM.

I think it was a swingy game and it was set up such that early claims would hurt town. Scum had a counter to almost everything this powerful town had going for them, and they made some really fortuitous decisions.

I will agree it was a swingy game.

[Thor665]

Like, if Lynx knew his result would return 'info on one ability regardless of the number they had' then I am so angry at Lynx right now.
And if he didn't I am angry at your setup.

[LynxKuroneko]

I mentioned what my ability was like. Be mad at yourself for not properly reading >_<

[LynxKuroneko]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p6244160

[Thor665]

If the target has a 'watered-down' role (as several of us do from what I've seen), I'll get one result.

That is not the same as saying 'if they have multiple abilities it will randomly generate which one I get info on'
It is also not the same when I say 'how could he have the redirect' and your answer is 'from an invention' wherein you're agreeing with me that he's not a redirector.
Why didn't you spot my confusion and clarify? I was blatantly not understanding what you had said there if you were trying to impart role info. Neither was Konowa.

[Thor665]

When I was like "he'd have to be a scum redirector but your ability didn't detect redirecting"

Your response should have been;

HE COULD BE A REDIRECTOR! MY ABILITY ONLY COPS ONE ABILITY IF THEY HAVE MULTIPLE!"

Instead you did...what you did. What the hell man? Why?

[Thor665]

Like, when I ruled him out as scum because your investigation didn't allow him to be a redirector what did you think I believed? When I was pointing out tha commentary about a "prime" power what did you think I was talking about? Why didn't you say something?

[Thor665]

Ability cop will only give me limited information on a role, especially if its a watered-down role. For example, I won't get strong-willed or compulsive in my results.

And looking at it again, your "for example" is actually *built* to make me misunderstand your role.
No, that wasn't the example.

You should have clarified about multiple abilities. You didn't.

[Thor665]

I dunno, I want to see the role PM, maybe it was written as awkwardly as the flips or something and that would justify it.