Encore Mafia: Mod Mayhem - ENDGAME: LORDS OF THE DUST

[Faraday]

I agree. I have grown weary of the whole "scum didn't play well. town just played terribly" thing. I don't hold myself out as an expert on actually playing mafia, but it seems to me that having the town perform poorly is at least in some part brought on by scum putting town in a position to play poorly.

Oftentimes, it seems that town comes from the perspective that they should play perfectly and any deviation from that is a mistake by town. Maybe this is an okay way to view mafia, but I think it ignores how an effective scum team can influence whether or not town makes a mistake.

Topic for radio show?

i've no problem giving credit to people who win but i'm not going to say they played well just because they think I should. you don't have to play well to win, most of the time i've just played well enough to win, that's fine but I don't need my genius lauded. winning is really the main thing anyway.

were they better than the town? yes
did they deserve to win? yes

do I think they played particularly great? not really. they probably didn't have to, considering the town were very poor (missed dayvigs, missed nightactions, hammers on people nigh on confirmed town in esurio, apathy and glorification of town lynches). did the scum have an impact on that to some degree? yes, but a lot of the towns problems were caused by poor town play (including myself, at times) and the scum capitalised on it.

[xRECKONERx]

And how is that different from "great scum play"

[Faraday]

i would classify great scum play as beating a town team playing well personally.

[xRECKONERx]

Actually this is exactly what we're talking about on the show next week, because I don't think a town team that plays perfectly/incredibly well can ever lose, and that all scum victories solely RELY on town fucking up bigtime.

[Faraday]

i said well, not perfect.

[xRECKONERx]

"Oftentimes, it seems that town comes from the perspective that they should play perfectly and any deviation from that is a mistake by town. Maybe this is an okay way to view mafia, but I think it ignores how an effective scum team can influence whether or not town makes a mistake."

did you miss this

[Faraday]

no

[xRECKONERx]

In any case, D1 was really fun and Empking was a great scumbuddy but fuck you Kats.

Good game all and TUNE INTO MASHUPS AND MAFIA THIS COMING FRIDAY TO HEAR ME/FARADAY DUKE IT OUT LIVE ON THE AIR

[AlmasterGM]

I think the problem here is nebulous metrics of what "good" play is. In my mind, it's comparative. Scum played "well" if their play would have been undetectable by the majority of reasonable players on this site. Town played "well" if they caught scum the majority of reasonable players on this site would not have.

[Faraday]

actually i think i was wrong to say the scum didn't play well, winning means you did enough to win - you only need to play well enough to win.

i'm more so thinking this isn't something i'd go 'oh wow that was such awesome scum play' if i had to pick an example, i guess.

[Parama]

what the hell are you guys arguing about?
Everyone played poorly this game myself included.

Let's let this trainwreck rest in peace.

ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY

[zoraster]

So the measure of good scum play is based on (1) whether they won and (2) how good the town was?

Because what was, frankly, almost a perfect win by scum is not particularly well played not because of anything scum did or didn't do but rather whether they defeated someone who was playing well?

I guess I agree with that to some degree: great play is highlighted by great opponents. But it seems to take a lot of the power and credit away from the scum.

[dramonic]

um it didn't even matter because the only other townies were uk and dram, both of whom are terrible.

It did matter because it caused me to hound you for one thing.
For another, saying "BTW I'm dying comes the end of Day 4" is pretty fucking important information =_=

Also I'm the only one who nailed a scum member, so fuck you