Chuck Season 1 - GAME OVER

[Mastermind of Sin]

So other than "he's scum, lawl!" should it be so super obvious Ant is scum that it's flabbergasting you that I'm not voting him?

You both worked over dana in basically the same way.
You both pathetic pushed Emp in the same way.
What am I missing as the lawlovbious moment of flabbergasting?

a) From my supposed position within the scumgroup and my weak role, it would be disadvantageous to the mafia for me to act the way I did. Lynching the Godfather makes *no* sense from my position if I was scum!
b) From Ant's position as the fakeclaimed cop, dana and Empking were expendable tools to make him look better.
c) Ant called for a vig kill on a supposedly investigation confirmed innocent Empking, which would have wasted the town's vig kill for the night if they had listened.
d) If I was scum, why didn't Empking and I kill Ant Night 3 instead of MBF? That would have only helped to confirm Empking as town, and we probably could have gotten you lynched because of your WTFLOLOMGBBQ roleclaim. Leaving Ant alive only put us in more danger, as we had to know he would investigate either myself or your that night, and our roleblocker was already dead.
e) Who benefits more from Rag being dead instead of you? Ant or me?

[Thor665]

a - point.
b - point.
c - point.
d - Because if you failed in the Thor vs. MoS competition (and I hardly think that was a lock) Emp would have been busted aterwards with the 'why is confirmed town alive' deal.
e - Especially if scum think I'm actually a functional Doc...which does tend to suggest she shot the scum target Night 1 (lawl at Rag!) Yeah, I can see that.

Okay, Ant, I'm totally like going to hammer you any second now unless you have a rebuttal.

[Thor665]

d (cont) - Not to mention - Vig at that point.

[Mastermind of Sin]

d - But how does leaving the cop alive *help* me if I'm scum? Do you really think I planned to try and go head to head against the cop rather than take my chances against you?

EBWOP: I don't understand what your second comment means.

[Ant_to_the_max]

I'm at work for most of today. Going to have to wait ~7 hours here

[Thor665]

@MoS - that's because I'm a flying Vatican assassin. I'm not explaining my thought process to you there because I know my logic is awesome and convoluted but true and clear for me and I see little value in trying to convince you that you're scum.

[Mastermind of Sin]

d (cont) - Not to mention - Vig at that point.

This statement is saying that I'm scum? o.O

[Ant_to_the_max]

a) From my supposed position within the scumgroup and my weak role, it would be disadvantageous to the mafia for me to act the way I did. Lynching the Godfather makes *no* sense from my position if I was scum!
b) From Ant's position as the fakeclaimed cop, dana and Empking were expendable tools to make him look better.
c) Ant called for a vig kill on a supposedly investigation confirmed innocent Empking, which would have wasted the town's vig kill for the night if they had listened.
d) If I was scum, why didn't Empking and I kill Ant Night 3 instead of MBF? That would have only helped to confirm Empking as town, and we probably could have gotten you lynched because of your WTFLOLOMGBBQ roleclaim. Leaving Ant alive only put us in more danger, as we had to know he would investigate either myself or your that night, and our roleblocker was already dead.
e) Who benefits more from Rag being dead instead of you? Ant or me?

a) Last ditch attempt to bring this 1v1 into a day where you only need to convince ONE person to join your side. In reality, this loss really meant nothing to the game. No matter what, it has just been one misslynch away for a scum win these last 2 days. Which day you get it doesn't matter.
b) Yes...let's start bussing the hell out of my two teamates when there was NO NEED at that point in the game. We could have easily swung the lynch elsewhere.
c) I explained my case on him (which was more than MoS did) I told you to look at his votes post me claiming. He tried EVERYTHING to save dana from a lynch. That is why I investigated him, and why I didn't want to believe my result. That night I was SET on it being Pere/Empking and ready to claim my win at that point. You can kinda see that in my posts.
d) Aww...another He Said vs He Said right here. Because in the QT you were pushing the idea of SK Rag and I was going along with it being a plausible idea. You probably thought I was going to waste my investigation on it by the way I was agreeing with you. I'm guessing you were really blindsided when I came back with your result. That is why Empking was so quick to bus you.
e) AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Think about this Thor. Who

REALLY

benefits with Rag being dead? The answer is MoS. If I was scum, I could easily leave Rag alive and twist her arm with the exact same argument that he is using on you here.

Oh, good point. Hmm, that actually makes more sense, because if the vigs listened to him the town lost a kill and Empking could have just claimed some sort of bulletproof townie after the fact.

Yes...claim BP after you didn't claim that in the mass claim. That would go over SOOOOOOOO well right here

[Thor665]

Hating life.
Hating setup.
Hating mothrax

But I'll still love you Reck, in ways that are illegal in 37 of the states.

Okay, I've been sitting on this and being lazy and putting it off, but it's time for the coin toss.

Yaaaay!....?

Here's what basically sold me - three little things;

Just had this random thought while at work today...

If dana was the RB, and MoS was the neighborizer, wouldn't that make dana > MoS and scum would be more willing to save dana and cut the loss of the neighborizer?

But...

What are you trying to say here?

Thor took the dana route while Empking took the MoS->Magua->MoS->CDB->MoS->Dana route.
That is the reason why I investigated him that night. It looked like he wanted to protect dana any way possible.
*shrugs*

This is a waaay odd interaction if Ant and Emp are scumbuddies.
Ant goes out of his way to discuss how I look town, and also calls out sound logic for his Emp investigation.

GF Empking would have no reason to fear me.

Agreed.
Why wouldn't he want you dead though to at least make the day a 50/50 debate between town/scumbuddy Thor/MoS for the win?

As is he left you alive so you could bust his buddy so he could keep playing for another Day?

I'm very strongly thinking I'm going to vote Ant soon.

@Emp - why did you believe Ant right away with his MoS investigate?

Because he's Chuck the town Cop. He's town and he's right.

This is the other odd one (yeah, shoot me) but when Emp went and edited the post from this;
Because he's Chuck the town Cop. He's town and he's right.
to this
Because he's Chuck the town Cop.
I sorta feel like the $5 bingo point there is how he went back and took out the absolutes of 'he's town' which feels like a scumslip.

Also, and I'm not quoting these two, but I had an odd conversation where I was pressing Emp on why, even if he was the GF, it wasn't a good idea to kill Ant - and he kind of hemmed and hawed around and basically tried to assure me that if he was a GF he would kill Ant. Felt like an investigation immune GF there feeling caught out.
Second - that odd thing yesterday where I was piling into Emp and flippin' MoS rolled in to defend Emp from what must have been obv. town Thor to him. Just weird. Still sticks in my craw.

I'll add that MoS came really close I mean *really* close with the 'Ant brought you because Rag thought he was scum' thing. I've frelled up on those before, but I'm not sure I feel Rag was so clear in a kill Ant concept that it works. Meh - really what I'm learning is heading into lylo I should try to sound ridiculously sure of all my pairings. Bleh, my bad.
Also, MoS just had...well, a few too many angles covered in my book. It felt like he'd written up the case situation already, and though...yeah...he knew he was going to be alive, but it felt a little more canned, like he had it ready to go.

If I'm wrong *DEEPEST* apologies to the town, my Smurf.

Vote: MoS

Also, I hate this setup.
Also, I really hope town won.
Also, I hate my role.

[Ant_to_the_max]

OMFG FINALLY MY FIRST TOWN WIN!
I LOVE YOU THOR!

Thanks for not making the same mistake twice!

[Ant_to_the_max]

Oh, and yes, I did investigate myself last night.
Turns out, I am not a threat to the intersect. Forgot to say that in my first post of the day and didn't think it would be a good idea to bring it up before now >__>

[Thor665]

I didn't make a mistake that time - you still need to work on looking more town

Awesome though, I do happy dance (>'-')> <('-'<) ^(' - ')^ <('-'<) (>'-')>
Lylo is waaaaay too stressful.

[Ant_to_the_max]

I didn't make a mistake that time - you still need to work on looking more town

Yes, I have come a long way, but still have so much more ground to go >__>
Started at the "utter crap" spot and now I think it is safe to say that I am at the "near useless most of the time" spot
And I am a bit better at not *completely* lurking through games >___>

[Thor665]

I'm happier to see you in playlists than a fair variety of people, so I'm actually pretty sure you're up to 'let's not policy lynch him Day 1' level

@MoS - you are a bastich. You hit my NKimmune GF WIFOM hangup *and* my 'why was Rag killed and not Thor' hangup all in one post. You were working me like a champ. Excellent play.

[Thor665]

Man, this might even be my best game ever alignment call wise - I called all three scum, and despite my rage debate hangup with MBF when I thought he was the scum Dayvig messing with me I was pretty accurate in my town calls as well. I'm taking a picture and hanging this one on my wall.

[Ant_to_the_max]

Oh yeah... MoS why did you stop talking to me in the QT? :'(
Just because I knew you were scum didn't mean we still couldn't be secret friends

[Thor665]

I just want to have Reck come in and make it official.
Because if Ant is toying with me (as I would him) I will officially cry (manfully) into my beard.

[Ant_to_the_max]

No toying from me in

THIS

game ;P

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yea, when Reck posts the QTs you'll see that I *did* expect Ant to investigate me and I *did* expect to be lynched yesterday. Goddamn if I didn't put some effort into it, though. I'm really disappointed how my scumbuddies folded this game. If they had played even an iota better, we probably would have steamrolled. This setup was really dumb though, the mafia roles were weak as shit and also WTFTHORROLECLAIM.

Basically it boils down to this:

1) My teammates sucked
2) Mothrax sucked
3) I predicted the shit out of Ant's moves this game.
4) I am awesome [/narcissist] but frankly should not have even gotten this close to winning. I was shoveling shit as fast as I could. I think we would have won yesterday if Empking hadn't voted me. If you hadn't had an out to not choose between me and Empking, I think I could have gotten Rag or Thor to vote Ant yesterday and seal the victory.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Oh yeah... MoS why did you stop talking to me in the QT? :'(
Just because I knew you were scum didn't mean we still couldn't be secret friends

I didn't want to slip up by mentioning anything in the QT that you could use against me in the thread. I was walking a very fine line and even the slightest thing could tip the balance.

[ooba]

Yay town win!

Very tough call there Thor! I was reading along. I mean the main reason why I thought MoS was scum was due to the hesitation in him voting empking yesterday. But MoS's point about 2 vigs pointing to NK immunity for GF instead of inv. immune was also good.

I would say well played all around..

[Mastermind of Sin]

Honestly the sad thing is I played up the hesitation on voting Empking

because it's what I would have done as town

. My initial impulse was to just hammer the shit out of Empking, and I toned myself back specifically because it was the protown move to make. I had absolutely NO intention of trying to save the Empking lynch at that point, so it was just unfortunate coincidence that you thought that's what I was trying to do.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yay town win!

Very tough call there Thor! I was reading along. I mean the main reason why I thought MoS was scum was due to the hesitation in him voting empking yesterday. But MoS's point about 2 vigs pointing to NK immunity for GF instead of inv. immune was also good.

I would say well played all around..

You have no idea how long it took me to work out the NK immunity loophole to explain Empking showing up as a GF. I was so proud of myself for coming up with that, lol. Without that I was a lock for lynch today, no contest.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Honestly the sad thing is I played up the hesitation on voting Empking

because it's what I would have done as town

. My initial impulse was to just hammer the shit out of Empking, and I toned myself back specifically because it was the protown move to make. I had absolutely NO intention of trying to save the Empking lynch at that point, so it was just unfortunate coincidence that you thought that's what I was trying to do.

EBWOP: I just realized that the problem is, I'm a Cassandra as town. People don't believe me and lynch me because they think I am scum. When I am town I do things scummy because they are the right things for me to do and that's all I care about. When I am scum I play more shiftily and somehow it ends up making me look more protown because I'm not genuinely scumhunting which would be getting me in trouble if I was town. It's a weird dichotomy...

[Thor665]

Yea, when Reck posts the QTs you'll see that I *did* expect Ant to investigate me and I *did* expect to be lynched yesterday. Goddamn if I didn't put some effort into it, though. I'm really disappointed how my scumbuddies folded this game. If they had played even an iota better, we probably would have steamrolled. This setup was really dumb though, the mafia roles were weak as Smurf and also WTFTHORROLECLAIM.

Well, on the flip side I wanted you dead all the way back at that *horrible* MBF/mass claim day when town sort of ran around squawking like chickens for a while.

That said, yeah, you had a few moments of really excellent play and it was not an easy choice there at the end. I don't think you would have got me to vote for Ant yesterday though - I was pretty focused on Emp early on and wasn't easing off of him much. I can't speak for Rag's thoughts...though I never could at any point in this game

Did you guys shoot RC? Or am I actually some sort of Doc and you shot Ant?