Mini 74 - It's over.

[Yggdrasil]

I don't think Thoth has posted yet for day 3, so I'll

FOS: Thoth

. Checking his profile, he has made 6 posts today as of now (2:00pm Dec 19, Pacific Time), yet none here. It definitely seems like he's lurking.

[Thoth]

OK, I'm now going to read through the thread and write down everything I find suspicious sofar or what at least gives me a suspicious feeling.

page 2
Yggdrasil: random vote at a time that there already was some discussion.
Riven: suggesting to go after a nonposter, but not actually voting for him and targeting someone that already posted for this.

page 3
Ygg: making a second random vote

all this pointing fingers at me seems like the mafia trying to deflect attention from itself onto an innocent.

ML: attacking ages on rather flimsy logic.
Zoneace: jumping on for basically no good reason as well
Riven: dito
Norinel: dito

page 4
Ygg scores one of the few protown points I'm going to give by trying to divert attention from ages.
ML makes a very interesting and well reasoned post in which she also diverts attention from ages. Unfortunately she diverts to gin, but for the moment I'm not going to count it as a negative.
WW makes a very strange unexplained vote for Riven. Could be a stupid try to disassociate himself from Riven. Gives a non-reason on the next page.
Riven voting ages for trying to follow 'established good town' behaviour.

page 5
Zoneace calls for at least lynching someone. Of course this is in general protown, as any lynch is better than no lynch and he's 2nd on the list of likely lynch candidates.
ML and pile on the 4th and 5th vote, but with a 'no lynch'-deadline approaching that is not really suspicious. Gin casting the 6th is, but he turned out to be good.

page 6
Quick lynch of gin, but not really unexpected nor suspicious.

page 7
Lots of discussion aboutr ww and lots of OT stuff from ww.
Zoneace is the only one to make a vote. As this was a potential end of game vote this looks really suspicious to me. If he's wrong 3 Mafia could jump on and win the game then and there.

page 8 (while writing this post)
Ygg accuses me rightly so of lurking. I have not yet posted this day as I've been rather busy the last few days and I really wanted to read the complete thread again before posting.

To me the above leads me to believe that Riven is most likely scum. Yggdrasil really looks like town to me. ww I'm not sure about. If he's scum he's behaving strange, but if he's town he's also behaving strange.
Norinel has done nothing suspicious and during the game. This makes me inclined to see him as scum. He's the most experienced player here and would probably not have a lot of trouble avoiding suspicous remarks as a Mafia member. As a town member he might have stirred up discussion a bit more.
Who's more scummy from ML and Zoneace is a bit different. I think that if ML is scum she has done really well so far as I cannot rationally find a lot wrong with her posts. Only problem is that I get a scummy feeling from her. Zoneace is the other way around. I think he made several rather scummy sounding posts, but he just doesn't feel scummy. Hard to explain.

I want to vote Riven, but for the reason I mentioned above about every vote possibly being the final one I'll wait until others tell me what they think about this.

[Stewie]

Vote count

Willows Weep 1 (zoneace)
Not voting: everyone else

7 alive, 4 to lynch.

[Norinel]

Norinel has done nothing suspicious and during the game. This makes me inclined to see him as scum. He's the most experienced player here and would probably not have a lot of trouble avoiding suspicous remarks as a Mafia member. As a town member he might have stirred up discussion a bit more.

I've only been evil two and a half times. The half was London, where I could have become evil, but didn't, so played as entirely pro-town when the opportunity lent me. The second was Gamersville, where I was mafia and made suspicious remarks. The third was Mario, where I got recruited by the cult the night before the mod disappeared and before I could even ask if the cult was pro-town or not.

As for this game, I've been mostly hanging back. Modding has given me other stuff to do, and I don't really like to post in twilight.

I want to vote Riven, but for the reason I mentioned above about every vote possibly being the final one I'll wait until others tell me what they think about this.

Me too, based on what I mentioned in my last post.

[Yggdrasil]

I'll agree that Riven does seem suspicious, but first I'll ask this question:

We need to be really careful today, as i think that a wrong lynch is going to end the game.

Right now I dont have much of an idea, but would like to hear Norinel (before you leave us) and ML's thoughts.

Think i'll go and re-read the thread later this afternoon, see if that helps.

Why do you specifically single out Norinel and ML for comments, especially when we had a non-poster (Thoth)?

[Riven]

Right now I dont have much of an idea, but would like to hear Norinel (before you leave us) and ML's thoughts.

I'll oblige, but asking for the two of us specifically makes me a little suspicious that you're trying to get opinions of people who haven't expressed any against a fellow mafia. Thus...

Rereading the parts of the days that lead to lynches, the people who raised the biggest argument against ages instead of Zoneace seemed to be ML (Who later that day tried to direct suspicion at gin) and Riven. Just about everyone attacked gin somehow Day 2 except for willows_weep, which makes me a little more inclined to trust him for not going after an easy townie lynch. Maybe the mafia's Lain, Riven, and Zoneace. It's more likely that one of them's trying to plant suspicion on the other two through association, and I have a feeling Riven's been doing the most to do that.

I was asking for your input, as you're leaving us soon. And i asked for ML as she hadnt posted her thoughts very much recently.. i should have also added Thoth's name too, but was tired and forgot.

[Medicated Lain]

Just read over the entire board... kinda fast though, so don't know if I got everything. On day one, Riven FOSed everyone... this game deserves that to happen again, I swear every person in this game just reeks of scumminess. Actually, I guess that's not entirely true... ygg seems to be the most consistant, Norinel seems weird for pointing out ygg as suspicious for bring up the same point twice, I did the same on Gin and you didn't find me suspicious... probably because it wasn't then, and wasn't when ygg did it, a suspicious thing... it's sticking to a point, making sure it's seen, seems perfectly logical to me. Thoth doesn't post much, but something seems weird about his post.... but he's definately right after ygg on my list of not the scummiest. ZONEACE simply confuses me. I can't say willows_weep is't still suspicious, cause I think she is, I just can't understand that vote out of nowhere on Riven... but she does directly attack issues brought up, as I've noticed more... Riven just kind of.. seems scummy as I look back.

My three biggest suspicions right now, look like Riven and ZONEACE, and weeping_willow.

Riven for saying on day two that he believed me day one about Gin, when day one he never even offered so much as an fos.. even a MENTION of Gin... and something about that post, asking about wanting to hear just from me and Norinel... I don't understand that, not exactly THAT scummy... just.. I don't understand.

ZONEACE more so, because we have no scum, and have only had one kill per night, which seriously seems like only one killing group, and in a game of 12 people, it would make sense the killing group would be atleast 3 people, can't be four, because there's only 7 people left, mafia would've won, however, with one vote placed, three mafia could just vote along, kill off a townie, and win the game. So, unless there's less than three mafia, one of either ZONEACE, or weeping_willow has to be mafia. ZONEACE, because the other two mafia wouldn't just follow along without having a definate fourth vote for the lynch, it would be so obvious when the three tried to vote, so it could've been ZONE just trying to rally up the others to vote... so unless ZONEACE is a townie and our mafia can't see this, which I just don't see happening... then it would have to be willows_weep, because mafia would not just aboard with a townie to lynch a fellow mafia, when this day could decide who wins.

With all that said... nothing is going to get accomplished right now, unless we vote someone, or people just decide to roleclaim.. I don't like the idea of roleclaiming, and I don't like the idea of just voting, concidering I do really believe this is last day if we don't catch scum... I'll say that I think ZONE looks scummier than willows_weep right now, and just wait for what the rest of you think.

[willows_weep]

Hm...you're not very consistent with my name ML ....:c

But that aside, I will talk about other important things

I voted for Riven because Riven asked me to say something. I hadn't been posting much before that except to comment on how I didn't want to fling around votes, and when I confirmed.
Riven asking me to come out of my shell and post made me suspicious because I figured
A player would only ask other players to start talking in order to gain information. And I know it could be either town wanting to try and find other townies but it could also be mafia trying to find townies.(In my opinion so far)


Hm I was thinking along the lines of Riven, ML, ZONEACE being the scummy seeming players. Riven because of :

4 votes for ages, if the mod would count ML's vote, but it appears not

I first interpreted that as in saying " hey let's get ages"

and of course the reasons I have already stated for why I voted Riven.
But after that first interpretation and reading more, to me it seems more like Riven likes to prod people...like remind them of things they should be doing. Like me talking? ML unvoting before making another vote? Keeping tallies and records?
So that's some things I noticed about Riven and it's a bit suspicious to me because it's too much order!

Now ML because it's just a feeling. But not a feeling that is strong...its just me thinking " dude...hmm she seems a bit...scummie"

Zoneace because

im gonna vote willows weep for making such a useless post, liek so many others. it seems like he/she/it trying to look like its doing something active inteh game but is really posting notings. seems scummy to me,

That looks like Zoneace is trying to get something ANYTHING conjuring up things that could possibly be a scummy action( real things just making them seem different from how they were). When Yggsdrasil wrote that I had made 15 posts, I was astonished. If you look at my track record you would notice that I post A LOT! And it's not all useful and then it's not all useless. You can check that stuff out if you check out my profile and press to look at all of my posts. Plus Zoneace voting for me is a scummy action, because Zoneace seems so intent on it.
( I understand that people have their suspicions and will be adamant about their beliefs until they are proven wrong...though some still go on...too bad though) ( Oh in this case I the only way to let Zoneace know that if he is town Zoneace is wasting his vote. But hey...if you are mafia then ...dude.)

Now Yggsdrasil...I don't really see as scummy at all because well Yggs has just been helpful to me. You know, reminding me to be aware of the vote count and well paying attention I suppose. ( but that's just me, I don't see why Yggs would be helpful if Yggs was mafia)

Thoth...well I haven't really investigated there, I did look at Thoths review but no thoughts there as yet.

Norinel: ditto

As for all the rest of the players...I haven't really any concrete thoughts on ( as if I think concretely...) Mostly because I haven't seen many posts from them lately(this page and not much or none on the previous) or what they say doesn't leave a lasting impression on me.

Ok I just looked back, and I see somethings from some other players but like I said no real lasting impression. I don't know why.

Ok I have to go. Aunt is expecting a call...landlines...Im sorry I don't have much time to look this over and edit.

[Stewie]

Vote count

Willows Weep 1 (zoneace)
Not voting: everyone else

7 alive, 4 to lynch.

I *really* don't want to put up a deadline at this stage of the game. You should be able to have a convesation going on after 3 nights. However, if you give me no other choice I will put a deadline.

[willows_weep]

Oh...there are no more players....no wonder

Wow...I am sorry I didn't remember. I've been so...out of some of it.

[Norinel]

Since we need to go somewhere, I'll make my suspicions of Riven into an almost-vote

FOS: Riven

.

[Medicated Lain]

Stewie give everyone a chance, it's still the weekend.

[Stewie]

I know it's christmas, but I did not recieve pm's from anyone telling me they were going on vacation, nor did anyone post for a while. I guess that allows me to put a deadline. Consider it your chirstmas present.

DEADLINE: January 6, same time as this post. When I come back after that, the day ends without a lynch, unless of course someone reaches the required ammount of votes.

[Norinel]

I'd mentioned my absence in the thread.

Still for going after Riven, but with time until deadline I won't vote yet.

[Yggdrasil]

Sorry for not posting, but I've been away for the holidays and I thought I would have enough time to check this board/post semi-regularly, but that wasn't the case.

Anyway, I'm willing to go ahead with the pseudo-bandwaggon against Riven. We should probably get a defense from Riven soon so that we don't end up with our backs to the deadline (no lynch will likely let the mafia win).

so,

FOS: Riven

(since voting would be a little too dangerous).

[Stewie]

Since maybe some of the players are inactive for the winter holidays, I will change the deadline. The date is the same, but instead of ending the day, I will replace anyone who didn't post.

[willows_weep]

Hm didn't post starting from when? When the deadline was imposed? Or?

[Stewie]

I said that I was going to put a deadline the 21thof december. I actually put one on christmas. The people who didn't post since the deadline are

Medicated Lain
Thoth
ZONEACE
Riven

who I'll will send a reminder PM the second day of 2004, and an E-Mail the fourth.

[Thoth]

I do not really have anything to post since the last time I posted. I'm going to vote for Riven when the deadline approaches for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post. Before that I can hardly add anything until Riven comments on the accusations against him.

[Medicated Lain]

Alright, I'm posting, I would've posted sooner if there was anything to say, but no one's discussing anything.

[ZONEACE]

i havent posted anything since there is nothing new to say. no one is posting. Ive made my thoughts known, early in the day. still waiting on other people.

[Riven]

ZONEACE more so, because we have no scum, and have only had one kill per night, which seriously seems like only one killing group, and in a game of 12 people, it would make sense the killing group would be atleast 3 people, can't be four, because there's only 7 people left, mafia would've won, however, with one vote placed, three mafia could just vote along, kill off a townie, and win the game. So, unless there's less than three mafia, one of either ZONEACE, or weeping_willow has to be mafia. ZONEACE, because the other two mafia wouldn't just follow along without having a definate fourth vote for the lynch, it would be so obvious when the three tried to vote, so it could've been ZONE just trying to rally up the others to vote... so unless ZONEACE is a townie and our mafia can't see this, which I just don't see happening... then it would have to be willows_weep, because mafia would not just aboard with a townie to lynch a fellow mafia, when this day could decide who wins.

With all that said... nothing is going to get accomplished right now, unless we vote someone, or people just decide to roleclaim.. I don't like the idea of roleclaiming, and I don't like the idea of just voting, concidering I do really believe this is last day if we don't catch scum... I'll say that I think ZONE looks scummier than willows_weep right now, and just wait for what the rest of you think.

I also think we are most likely to have 3 scum in a mini, and that 1 killing group is pretty obvious. So as you say, if Zone is scum voting for a townie, the others wont vote until another townie joins in to make the lynch possible. This seems like a stupid thing for scum to do, so i'm less inclined to believe this situation, as its quite a gamble for the mafia.

If Zoneace is a townie voting for a townie, then surely the 3 scum would have ended the day by now. So that makes this the least likely situation.

If both Zoneace and Willows_Weep are scum, this could be a method of disassociation(sp?). Lynching a fellow scum to make yourself look more like a townie. I think that the mafia would want to try and end this day with all 3 living still to win, so I think this is not very likely.

Then if zone is a townie voting for a scum, the rest of the scum arnt going to jump on and kill one of their own, and they'd actually need two townies for a successful lynch (unless willows_weep votes for willows_weep, this is assuming 3 scum still). This is also a genuine possibility.

For now i'll

FOS: Willows_Weep

, just incase i'm wrong with me reasoning.

[Medicated Lain]

That's the same logic I was using, except I'm more inclined to believe that ZONE is the scum between the two, I think scum would be trying to draw out voters to end the day... except now if we have 3 scum, we're deadlined, and if no one votes by the end, scum will probably win, for that, they may be being more careful. If both willow_weep and ZONEACE are scum, it's definately a very good plan. But there's no chance that both of them are town, unless we only have 2 scum.

[Norinel]

I don't think the mafia would jump on with the game this stagnated; it'd be safer to just not vote and hope for a no lynch.

vote: Riven

He's posted, and mostly ignored the accusations against him. (Though I admit mine aren't very well explained.) This game needs to go somewhere.

[Yggdrasil]

Although I'm willing to go along with a bandwaggon against Riven, now I'm thinking that lynching ZONEACE might be better. So far, I see Zone's vote against w_w pretty suspicious because it's a little too aggressive at this point in the game. Plus, a many do see Zone as a likely candidate as scum.

However, my main reason for voting for him is that lynching him will likely give us the most information. Assuming he is mafia (since lynching a townie would end the game), we would know that those who directed the bandwaggon from Zoneace to ages day 1 were suspicious and those who tried to stop the bandwaggon against ages were most likely town.

So in the best interests of helping our position tomorrow, I'll

vote: Zoneace

(although I will withdraw this vote if this bandwaggon progresses too quickly).