268: Bugsy Malone Mafia - Game over. Mod learns lesson

[broomhead]

Am I interpreting this wrong or are you saying you aren't going to unvote someone once you vote no matter what? Regardless of defense or further evidence?

No, that means that when I vote, I'll be sure of it at the time. It does not mean that once vote I will not listen to anything else. But it does also mean that i'm pretty sure of this person(again, unless a deadline is imposed, then I just vote to have my vote counted)

[MeMe]

Just checking in. And I'll ditto the last line of Adele's post...

It's possible MeMe's sincere... but she's the best one for me out there right now.

...substituting "Adele" where she's got "MeMe," of course.

[Alexander]

Well, the game seems to have stalled. In order to advance it somewho, I would like to dangle the following idea in front of you guys: MASS NAME CLAIM.

Why is this good? Well, for several reasons:
a. There just aren't that many characters in the movie. Most of the scum will be forced into a counterclaim or into obscurelcaim.
b. Some of the main characters are so obvious that they could not have been excluded. Anyone claiming Fat Sam, Bugsy or Blousey and not counterclaimed is immediately clear. THREE clear townies for day 1 is a great job. The mob is unlikely to dare to claim such obvious roles.
c. Tallulah is dead! Why is this good? Well, because she is somewhat "on the fence" character - not really evil, but not really good as well. So, had someone claimed Tallulah, I would not be at all sure they are a townie. But, Tallulah is dead and turned out to be town. With her out of the way, almost all remaining roles are clearly polarized between good and evil.

d. And finally, the best reason for a nameclaim: THERE IS NO OBVIOUS DOC. What does that mean?

Well, in many flavorful setups, the rolename is directly connected to the role.
- Simpsons mafia? Dr. Hibbert is clearly the doc
- Children literature mafia? Dr. Dolittle is the doc
- Treasure Island mafia? Dr. Livesey is the doc

But in this setup? I honestly cannot think about any single character in the movie who is an obvious candidate to be the doc. No one in the movie has an obvious connection to medicine or protection. If there is a doc in the game, his/her role is flavor-detached.

So, to summorise:
Mass name-claiming doesn't leave the mob many safe choices.
It gives us at least 3 confirmed innocents
It does NOT give out the doc.
It does NOT allow the claiming of a borderline-good role (since the only such role is dead).

Please feel free to discuss and poke holes in my logic. I would like very much to get feedback on this.

[Adele]

I'm relatively new and don't know: is a name-claim situation likely to lead to a role-claim situation?

Also (and I'm guessing here, as I haven't seen the movie), would there be any spare good guys going that vIQleS could've provided as safe claims?

Finally, I'd be kinda surprised if any mass-claim made much of a difference on day one. Isn't that the first thing mods concentrate on avoiding?

[Pariah]

Am I interpreting this wrong or are you saying you aren't going to unvote someone once you vote no matter what? Regardless of defense or further evidence?

No, that means that when I vote, I'll be sure of it at the time. It does not mean that once vote I will not listen to anything else. But it does also mean that i'm pretty sure of this person(again, unless a deadline is imposed, then I just vote to have my vote counted)

Ah, well, that makes a lot more sense. Thank you for clarifying.

As for the idea of a role name claim, I have personally not seen the movie (it's on my list of things to do) so I'm not going to pass judgment on whether it is a good idea or not until I know what I'm talking about.

[broomhead]

and I'd also like to point out, i don't know the movie very well at all, so that would mean that I'd have to claim my role and only that. and another thing, you said yourself that if someone claimed an in between role you'd consider them scum, and if they claimed and obvious role they're suddenly clear. So i guess your advice to the mafia to claim a "good" role defeats this whole role claim thing.

so here's my role claim: Frank. (seriously i made that up, if that's a real charter props for me. i really have no clue so if it is a role, don't overanalyze please)

[broomhead]

umm, i know i don't like double posts but I'd like to point out that the first half of my post was cut off, so, what i was going to say was, " too many people lie when role claim happens, good and bad"



and PS, pariah and i posted at almost the same time.

[Alexander]

broomhead,
of course people can lie when claiming. But, but doing so, they run the risk of one of two:
a. Claiming a character that someone else claims (if they do, our chances to hit scum are 50%, very good odds)
b. Claiming a character so obscure than no one will believe them

Speaking of obscure, what the hell is "Frank", and what's up with the "I made it up" part? Ayelin, for example, was "Tallulah", she had an actual name, I'm sure all of us have actual names. Didn't you receive an ACTUAL NAME when you got your role?

[Fritzler]

I don't think we should role name claim.

[Alexander]

Fritzler,

I need your input on specifically this question:

Do you think that all 3 major characters (Sam, Bugsy, Blousey) exist in the game?

Your opinion will be appreciated.

[Fritzler]

I dunno, I haven't seen it, I wouldn't be suprised if they were, or if viqizzle through us in a loop, and made them mafia, or if one or more of them are safe claims.

[Alexander]

Also, I would like to add another viable reason to full-name-claim:

ALMOST ALL THE PLAYERS HERE HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE.
(as discovered in the last few posts)

This means that scum will have hard time coming up with believable false claims. I mean, it's not like Star Wars, where all the characters are iconic... I HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN THE MOVIE, and I am having a difficult time coming up with believable false claims for scum. Extremely lucky for me, then, that I am not scum and I do not need to resort to false claims, my real one is good enough

[Alexander]

Fritzler: please read mod's post #13. There is a clear line, as he says, between good and evil characters. Given post #13, there IS NO WAY that one of the big 3 can be mafia... unless the mod blatantly lied in this post.

[Fritzler]

No reasons they can't be safe claims.

[N_lich]

b. Some of the main characters are so obvious that they could not have been excluded. Anyone claiming Fat Sam, Bugsy or Blousey and not counterclaimed is immediately clear. THREE clear townies for day 1 is a great job. The mob is unlikely to dare to claim such obvious roles.
c. Tallulah is dead! Why is this good? Well, because she is somewhat "on the fence" character - not really evil, but not really good as well. So, had someone claimed Tallulah, I would not be at all sure they are a townie. But, Tallulah is dead and turned out to be town. With her out of the way, almost all remaining roles are clearly polarized between good and evil.

I don't see how Fat Sam can be considered less of an "on the fence" character than Tallulah.

[chaotic_diablo]

I agree with most of Alexander's points, but I'm not quite sure if mass rolenaming at this point is a good idea.

Scum will probably oppose the idea and try to stop it. However, they are also not the only ones who disagree. This means we cannot label everyone who disagree as scum. In addition, we need either the majority or everyone to agree.

If by some far off chance that scum do get away, they have access to every role in the game. They can kill off the most obvious power role without even guessing.

There's also the possibility that at least one of the scum has seen the movie. This already gives them an advantage over protown during the rolename claiming.

[Foolster41]

I really don't know. I kind of feel like I'm cheating when everyone just role claims. It just feels aganst the spirit of the game. (And I think that's why mods try their best to stop it)

There's no way of knowing how the game has been set up. As diablo said, If it is set up with something like safeclaims (some mods will even give safeclaim ideas to scum, can't remember what mod or game that was) then we've given out a pretty good spread of roles, and the good ones like bugsy will probibly be picked off first. I'd say it's best to play it safe.

Alex: Acutally, the mod said the line was confusing. He gave a rule of thumb to help make it more clear.

Broom: Frank? There's no point at all in giviing out fake claims. but don't claim until we've descided.

Lich: It's been years since I saw the movie, but I read a synopsis to jog my memory. From what I see, fat sam is about as close to on the fence as Tullulah was.

[broomhead]

Speaking of obscure, what the hell is "Frank", and what's up with the "I made it up" part? Ayelin, for example, was "Tallulah", she had an actual name, I'm sure all of us have actual names. Didn't you receive an ACTUAL NAME when you got your role?

okay, first off,

it was a joke!

bring it down a notch,

secondly, Alex, if your so high on role claiming, go for it, throw out a role claim, be bold and strong. *sarcastically*

lead us all

*rolls eyes*

[Alexander]

*seriously* Firstly, enhance your reading comprehention skills. I talked about nameclaim, not roleclaim.

*seriously2* I will nameclaim once everyone, or most, concur that a mass nameclaim is a good idea. And when I do, it will not be "uhm, my name is Joe and I made it up".

[Alexander]

@Foolster:Fat Sam is not on the fence. He and his gang are Bugsy's allies, Dan and his gang are Bugsy's enemies.

Tallulah is on the fence because, although technically in the employment of Sam, she's mean to Bugsy on more than one occurance.

If the mod made Tallulah 'good', then Sam is most certainly 'good'.

[Adele]

I will nameclaim once everyone, or most, concur that a mass nameclaim is a good idea.

Sorry, could you clarify? Earlier, you said

I would like to dangle the following idea in front of you guys

You just seemed to be floating an idea, now you look like you're advocating it. Have you decided that you think it's the best decision or do you still want to debate upsides and downsides?

[broomhead]

OK for that last time

JOKE JOKE JOKE

and on a worse note, I'm leaving for a few days on family business and i won't be back till Friday or so, if that's too long, I'm fine with a replace, but I'd rather stay in the game

[Fritzler]

OK for that last time

JOKE JOKE JOKE

and on a worse note, I'm leaving for a few days on family business and i won't be back till Friday or so, if that's too long, I'm fine with a replace, but I'd rather stay in the game

I hope you don't die in a fatal car accident on the trip.

[Adele]

That's, um... sweet, Fritzler.
I also hope that Broomhead doesn't die.
I hope that no-one dies.

When did we stop being able to assume wishes for continued life for one another?

[Alexander]

I will nameclaim once everyone, or most, concur that a mass nameclaim is a good idea.

Sorry, could you clarify? Earlier, you said

I would like to dangle the following idea in front of you guys

You just seemed to be floating an idea, now you look like you're advocating it. Have you decided that you think it's the best decision or do you still want to debate upsides and downsides?

Sorry, I should have made myself clearer. FIRST, we debate the idea. THEN, we show hands. If most hands are up, I will nameclaim as well. I will not nameclaim if most hands are down.

Makes sense?