PYP 4: New Homes, Same Problems (Day 5)

[Benmage]

And Ben.. where to start? Your entire last post screams scummy to me, first you're blatantly trying to fish for roles, for a starter, Gude's.

Trying to fish? No. I am not trying, I am telling.

But on top of those (which has to be one or the other), if Gude ISN'T the cop, you're obviously hoping to out whoever IS said cop.

I am not asking for a CC, and noone would CC. The only one to pick cop would be near the bottom to double over any PRs/scummers higher up.

Anyone in the top area knows not to take cop because #1 should've picked cop as it is the most beneficial role to the town.

So, you're either scum and hopping onto the Gudetown wagon (in which case trying to find out his role and/or find the cop).

If I was scum I'd simply choo choo on easily (or I'd just find out when he flipped)

or you're scum WITH Gude, and you're trying to lead the weak doctor into danger tonight and find out who, if anyone, is the cop (for those new, PYP3 had scum searching for a cop all game and there wasn't one. It would benefit scum hugely to find out if there is, or isn't, a cop early on).

If the weak doc were to die tonight I'd be advocating Gude's lynch. So am I bussing now? (I didn't read PYP3, so I don't know if this is relevant at all. But different people. Different roles?...Different game.)

[PranaDevil]

If you had paid attention to what I had already said you would know there wasn't a cop in PYP3 at all even prior to what you posted.

And you even admit that you're not even asking for Gude's claim, you're demanding it.

What if the person who picked number 1 hates being a cop? They should pick it to satisfy you? No, you pick the role you feel will benefit the town most through being used by you, or the role you play best with, not some role that you might not enjoy using, or be useless with, or feel isn't as useful (what with the inverter), so no, your entire "I demand Gude claim" stuff is bollocks.

And yes, you would still be bussing because if you knew the weak doc had targetted Gude (and how the hell would you know the weak doc went there anyway? I'm sure scum were 1 and 2 in PYP3... and I was in a mason pair WITH the weak doc, you don't use that role to protect, you use it to clear people, so whoever the weak doc is, take it as read that you should be clearing people, not trying to protect people. Thus the weak doc may not have gone for number 1 anyway, I sure as hell wouldn't). Where was I? Oh yeah, if you knew the weak doc had targetted Gude then evidently you would bus him for pro-town points and you've just offed a strong town investigative/protection role as trade. It's a nice trade for scum really, the less people who can confirm people as town the better off the scum is.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama, why not get high in the order and pick a scum based role and then never use it? Wouldn't that be better than deliberately trying to get a low draw to avoid a role? I'm not liking the whole "I wanted to be vanilla" stuff, smells fishy to me.

If I had gotten a high role thats what I would have done. Hard to for sure get high or low. Also I never said I wanted to draw vanilla, there are a handful of roles in this game I would like to be. Compared to most though, yes I would prefer vanilla.

[Benmage]

If you had paid attention to what I had already said you would know there wasn't a cop in PYP3 at all even prior to what you posted.

And you even admit that you're not even asking for Gude's claim, you're demanding it.

What if the person who picked number 1 hates being a cop? They should pick it to satisfy you? No, you pick the role you feel will benefit the town most through being used by you, or the role you play best with, not some role that you might not enjoy using, or be useless with, or feel isn't as useful (what with the inverter), so no, your entire "I demand Gude claim" stuff is bollocks.

SATISFY ME!??!?!? ME... Who gives a fuck about me. It's the single best town role. You're only fucking over the town. You don't not pick the best town role. Noone else is aiming for cop because #1 should've picked cop. Therefore #1 not picking cop fucks up the roles below as well.

Not picking 1 as cop is the single most anti-town thing therefore if Gude didn't pick cop He committed the most anti-town thing and deserves to be hung.

I'm basically asking a VT in a mountainous game to claim VT. What I am asking of Gude is to confirm the obvious. He should be a cop, and therefore I will not be voting him on that premise.

And yes, you would still be bussing because if you knew the weak doc had targetted Gude (and how the hell would you know the weak doc went there anyway?

I wouldn't know, I would assume. It is the most logical choice for the weak doctor, to protect the most powerful town role,dee dee dee.

I'm sure scum were 1 and 2 in PYP3... and I was in a mason pair WITH the weak doc, you don't use that role to protect, you use it to clear people, so whoever the weak doc is, take it as read that you should be clearing people, not trying to protect people. Thus the weak doc may not have gone for number 1 anyway, I sure as hell wouldn't).

Well we don't have masons. So yeah, lol, without reading PYP3 you've already crushed your own argument. Different game. Different roles. A weak doc whose also a mason would rock out as a confirmation/protective role. But thats because the mason partner is there to claim the weak docs results upon death. No mason partner here....no clue who weak doc protected and wound up dead....gg...weak doc protects cop. Period.

Where was I? Oh yeah, if you knew the weak doc had targetted Gude then evidently you would bus him for pro-town points and you've just offed a strong town investigative/protection role as trade. It's a nice trade for scum really, the less people who can confirm people as town the better off the scum is.

Weak doc vs 1 scum. On a 5 man scum team. I don't see any town role not worth a 1-1 trade.

[Le Cupcake]

IMPORTANT SURVEY:

Andrius, Rabies, Vollkan, Le Cupcake, InHimshallibe, slowsilver, LlamaFluff, Benmage, Guderian, Sajin, xvart, chkflip, Zodiark13

:

You all haven't played in a PYP game as far as I remember. These questions are for you. You are being judged based on your answers.

1)

Did you fully understand how the draft system operated?

2)

Why did you choose the numbers you chose?

3)

Do you think it is likelier that scum chose unique X numbers, or doubled up on at least one of their choices?

1. I think so.
2. On a whim, mod rushed me. I like the number 10.
3. WIFOM? I do not see scum going after particular numbers (unless it is to pick earlier to take town roles).

@Mod: Is it possible for scum to take vig powers? And if so, are the scum just in essence a vig who can't shoot?

[Le Cupcake]

Also, will read through this thread after parties are over and done with.

[PranaDevil]

YOU say the cop is the most powerful role for town, I say it isn't, I say it depends on the player who HAS the role as much as WHAT the role is. For me, like I say, I would likely go for the vig roles at the top, not only are they useful for town anyway, but they harm scum by a wide margin because you're preventing them from taking extra kills. Even if you don't USE the vig, preventing scum doing so is a damned site more useful than a cop that might well get waffled night 1.

As for the weak doc... auto-protect the first draw? Fucking stupid play. The most stupid play possible for a weak doc in fact. The chance of one of the unique numbered players being scum is HIGH in this game. The chance of more than one is as well, but only slightly less so. For the weak doc to target someone who could possibly be scum is stupid, because if Gude is scum we lose our weak doc and our only 100% sane investigator (the cop's sane, but can be thrown by the inverter), great move dead doc.

No, the weak doc shouldn't be targetting the top player. Sure, if we have a cop, protect them, but unless said cop is outed they can't do that, and if said cop reveals themself and we don't even have a weak doc, then bye bye cop too.

Basically your plan revolves around making assumptions about things based on your personal preference, as opposed to what is actually logical and useful in this specific game, and in these games the cop is not, and should not, be the number 1 pick unless you wish to give scum extra kills.

[Benmage]

YOU say the cop is the most powerful role for town, I say it isn't

Logic isn't a strong attribute for everyone.

I say it depends on the player who HAS the role as much as WHAT the role is.

Cop is brainless and gives the best results. I am very good at this game and reading people. But some people, who are town. Suck and play terribly scummy. A vig kills them because they are scummy. Good... but bad because they flipped town. A cop, confirms them one way or the other.

Even if you don't USE the vig, preventing scum doing so is a damned site more useful than a cop that might well get waffled night 1.

You think if the scums not the vig that its gonna live very long?

As for the weak doc... auto-protect the first draw? Fucking stupid play.

Bes play?...Yep.

The most stupid play possible for a weak doc in fact. The chance of one of the unique numbered players being scum is HIGH in this game. The chance of more than one is as well, but only slightly less so. For the weak doc to target someone who could possibly be scum is stupid, because if Gude is scum we lose our weak doc and our only 100% sane investigator (the cop's sane, but can be thrown by the inverter), great move dead doc.

The weak doc dies N1, we kill the #1 pick. Period. And get a 1-1 trade. Thats good.

No, the weak doc shouldn't be targetting the top player. Sure, if we have a cop, protect them, but unless said cop is outed they can't do that, and if said cop reveals themself and we don't even have a weak doc, then bye bye cop too.

For those of us who are smarter than rocks, said cop is already outted.

Basically your plan revolves around making assumptions about things based on your personal preference, as opposed to what is actually logical and useful in this specific game, and in these games the cop is not, and should not, be the number 1 pick unless you wish to give scum extra kills.

Well then chief.

Let's break down your plan:

Either way the #1 pick has an awesome Town PR.

True or False?

Either way scum are going to want to NK awesome town PR.

True or False?

Either way the weak doc should be protecting said awesome town PR, the #1 pick.

True or False?

Either way weak doc dies N1 we lynch #1 pick.

True or False?

[PranaDevil]

YOU say the cop is the most powerful role for town, I say it isn't

Logic isn't a strong attribute for everyone.

I say it depends on the player who HAS the role as much as WHAT the role is.

Cop is brainless and gives the best results. I am very good at this game and reading people. But some people, who are town. Suck and play terribly scummy. A vig kills them because they are scummy. Good... but bad because they flipped town. A cop, confirms them one way or the other.

A cop could be targetting people who are hard to read. Or people they are getting a scummy vibe from but have no evidence to truly back it up yet.

Even if you don't USE the vig, preventing scum doing so is a damned site more useful than a cop that might well get waffled night 1.

You think if the scums not the vig that its gonna live very long?

This coming from a guy yet to play in one of these... the vig kill would go to known town that "could" be percieved as the vig making a mistake, while the actual scum kill takes out pro-town. 2 Kills per night for scum is worse for town than 1 kill per night. The vigs are much more powerful as a scum weapon than a town weapon. the benefit of not just HAVING the vigs as town, but preventing scum from taking them far outweighs the benefit of having a cop.

As for the weak doc... auto-protect the first draw? Fucking stupid play.

Bes play?...Yep.

I'm begging Fate to rip you a new one here. You're suggesting that the weak doc potentially COMMIT SUICIDE night 1? The weak doc is far stronger as an investigative tool to confirm town for a few days than he is slitting his own throat for the sake of a single scum lynch. Losing the weak doc harms town more than it harms scum.

The weak doc dies N1, we kill the #1 pick. Period. And get a 1-1 trade. Thats good.

For scum it is, sure.

No, the weak doc shouldn't be targetting the top player. Sure, if we have a cop, protect them, but unless said cop is outed they can't do that, and if said cop reveals themself and we don't even have a weak doc, then bye bye cop too.

For those of us who are smarter than rocks, said cop is already outted.

Unless Gude is scum, or is town with a different role than cop, y'know... because so far you are assuming that everyone should view things as you do, I'm pointing out that not everybody does, and your policy lynch of "If you don't pick the cop as number 1, you are scum" is fucking stupid.

Well then chief.

Let's break down your plan:

Either way the #1 pick has an awesome Town PR.

True or False?

False, #1 pick could be scum. If not scum, then yes, a strong PR.

Either way scum are going to want to NK awesome town PR.

True or False?

Depends, scum can take out #1 if they're town, but if they're scum they'd have to pick further down the list, scum could easily target someone lower and bank on us wiping out #1 on the basis of WIFOM "scum would have taken you out if you were town", hardly rocket science here.

Either way the weak doc should be protecting said awesome town PR, the #1 pick.

True or False?

False, if #1 is scum, the weak doc dies, however, we don't know why the weak doc died... unless we have 3 deaths, we'd have no clue who did what. If there's two deaths it means a vig hit someone, and the scum hit someone, but one of those could have been blocked and the weak doc got nobbled by scum #1, we don't know.

and if the vig targets #1, and the doc saves it, but mafia wind up hitting the weak doc, we could lead to lynching #1 who flips town... and oh look we fucked it up.

Either way weak doc dies N1 we lynch #1 pick.

And if the weak doc didn't die through protecting scum? Yeah, congrats you've just wasted a day on a crap shoot.

And this is all considering we even HAVE a weak doc or a cop. We could have both, we could have one of them, we could have fucking neither. Those roles at the start aren't guarenteed to be there, what if NOBODY has picked weak doc? "whoops"?

No Ben, either you're being exceptionally niave about things here, or you're trying to lead the weak doc into killing themselves, AND finding out the role of Gude, both of which only benefit scum.

[Guderian]

In response to people who doubt why would scum would pick similar numbers, to avoid exactly what is going on now. They are, essentially, given a free pass for several days.

I ask again, if picking higher benefits the town, why did no one else pick 1,1? You either get a powerful role for the town, and knock off any scum that would also choose 1,1. (or any other subsequent high number)

Some sense finally:

No Ben, either you're being exceptionally niave about things here, or you're trying to lead the weak doc into killing themselves, AND finding out the role of Gude, both of which only benefit scum.

Ben, the point of this game is to choose role you would LIKE, thats the point of a draft with multiple roles. What role did you pick?

Pom:

You're being voted for your numbers- correct. But they point to you being scum, with all the technicalities of the game. Why shouldn't you be voted for your numbers?

Good reasoning here. Just make sure you lynch down the numbers one at a time. Hopefully you hit some scum along the way, otherwise town will lose. But maybe you're not concerned about that?

And yes I changed my numbers. Maybe you should have too?

Also, what made the transition from slowsilver to me so easy? Looks like a not so subtle attempt to give steam to the wagon.

Gandalf and SS are both scumm though

Bwuh?

Change vote off someone you still think is scum, for some incredibly weak reasoning?

[slowsilver]

I'm not giving steam to any wagon just as the moment - but I can see who is putting steam onto the train.

[PranaDevil]

In response to people who doubt why would scum would pick similar numbers, to avoid exactly what is going on now. They are, essentially, given a free pass for several days.

Scum could still be at the bottom of the list, but if there's 5 scum you can be sure that 3 minimum picked seperate 1st numbers from the other two, it would be stupid for scum to deliberately put themselves at the bottom of the pile, or even in the middle of the pile. Thus you can be certain that a minimum of 3 of the five scum will be seperated in each grouping that Hoopla posted earlier. With a chance that the other two are either split, or together in a group.

Hence by law of averages, scum are likely to have at least one player in the top 3 or 4 slots.

This is another reason scum might leave people at the top alive... not just WIFOM, but we will wind up lynching them most likely.

I ask again, if picking higher benefits the town, why did no one else pick 1,1? You either get a powerful role for the town, and knock off any scum that would also choose 1,1. (or any other subsequent high number)

Because most people aren't picking on the basis of "getting one over scum" but "what will benefit them" thus it becomes a big WIFOM piece of guesswork even before the game, I went with my numbers because I figured lower down people wouldn't be as likely to pick that number first (bugger), and then totally fucked up by forgetting that the second number is absolutely useless unless you pick 1 (2 at a push if you think someone else might have your number already).

Ben, the point of this game is to choose role you would LIKE, thats the point of a draft with multiple roles. What role did you pick?

Now YOU are role fishing? What the fuck?

[Guderian]

To show the ridiculousness of his question.

[LlamaFluff]

shutupshutupshutupshutupshutupshutup

vote benmage

my original thought was correct.

cool.

[DrippingGoofball]

There is no weak doc.

The weak doc is scum.

Discuss.

[LlamaFluff]

There is no weak doc.

The weak doc is scum.

Discuss.

I did so by voting Ben.

Others should join me. There will be fresh baked cookies. Macamicdamia nut ones.

[DrippingGoofball]

You know I love a cryptic hint, and nuts.

I'm loathe to abandon the Guderian wagon, though.

*dilemma*

[SpyreX]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 12

Benmage

- 2 - PranaDevil, llamafluff - (L-10)

gandalf5166

- 2 - Hoopla, Benmage - (L-10)

Guderian

- 7 - Fate, Drippinggoofball, Parama, Jack, inHimshallibe, Ellibereth, Pomegranate - (L-5)

Jack

- 1 - Andrius - (L-11)

slowsilver

- 1 - xvart - (L-11)

Volkan

- 1 - Le Cupcake - (L-11)

xvart

- 4 - iamausername, Sajin, Volkan, slowsilver - (L-8)

Players not voting: chkflip, gandalf5166, Guderian, Rabies

@Mod: Is it possible for scum to take vig powers? And if so, are the scum just in essence a vig who can't shoot?

All roles operate exactly the same regardless of the alignment of who has it. All roles are available to all alignments.

[PranaDevil]

@Mod: Is it possible for scum to take vig powers? And if so, are the scum just in essence a vig who can't shoot?

All roles operate exactly the same regardless of the alignment of who has it. All roles are available to all alignments.

I hope to god this wasn't an actually asked question... because if it is someone needs a slap upside the head.

[xvart]

Okay

Vote: xvart

, here is why:

The moment that there is a whiff of a bandwagon developing xvart is right onto it. In the first instance he voted Guderian - immediately after Fate made his vote on the scummy arrogance of Guderian saying that he was jealous. In the second instance he jumped the Llama wagon, six posts after he made his first. His reasoning was that since Llama got near the bottom and didn't seem to mind it Llama was therefore scum - hmm... Then he jumped onto my bandwagon with the already de-constructed post #95 (credits due to Vollkan for the deconstruction #140.)

A whiff of a bandwagon? I was the second vote on Guderian, so there was no bandwagon of which to get a whiff. The same is true of llama. I was the second vote. So your allegation that I am wagon hopping is unfounded.

I HATE being strong power roles. Anyone who has ever played with me before knows this fact, I would rather draw vanilla then cop, vig, doctor, etc. Having night actions to in depth consider messes with my ability to play a good game, almost every time I am unhappy with my play, I was non-vanilla. I hoped for the bottom 1/3 of the list, so I could take a role that I can still use, but also enjoy a bit more. If I was at the top of the list, I might be able to take a decent role out of scum hands
but I also would not really have much fun. I know this game is pick your power, but what if I dont like many powers available?

But how did you strategically pick your numbers so you would be at the bottom?

Llama, why not get high in the order and pick a scum based role and then never use it? Wouldn't that be better than deliberately trying to get a low draw to avoid a role? I'm not liking the whole "I wanted to be vanilla" stuff, smells fishy to me.

Exactly my point. A desire to be at the bottom of the list is inherently anti-town because it gives the opportunity to be higher on the list. But anti town is not scummy; which is why I want to know how he picked his numbers to achieve a bottom of the barrel draft slot.

Llama, why not get high in the order and pick a scum based role and then never use it? Wouldn't that be better than deliberately trying to get a low draw to avoid a role? I'm not liking the whole "I wanted to be vanilla" stuff, smells fishy to me.

If I had gotten a high role thats what I would have done. Hard to for sure get high or low. Also I never said I wanted to draw vanilla, there are a handful of roles in this game I would like to be. Compared to most though, yes I would prefer vanilla.

But this is a direct contradiction. Why not go for a high number and pick one of the roles you would like to be, and if already selected, then win for the VT assignment?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LlamaFluff

Llama or slowsilver. These are the wagons we should be pushing. It's win-win.

Benmage - you whole premise is based on the weak doc being in town's hands, which is something we don't necessarily know.

xvart.

[vollkan]

Parama is probably scum. I get the feeling there is someone in his list that he is trying to protect.

Because?

There is no bus driver role to pick from, so I was either making a joke or an idiot.

*facepalm*

Xvart-5

Well... I can see the value in doing it either way, but I think it would depend on the scum team membership and how much time they actually spent coordinating and whether or not they thought that it would be beneficial to subvert suspicion by having two people pick identical numbers.

Why didn't you say this at first instance? I can't believe that you would seriously think that people were expecting you to declare what you "knew" - and, in the above, you have a perfectly reasonable opinion.

Instead of fence sitting I should have said playing both sides of the fence. He's "defending" (used loosely) against my comment while at the same time acknowledging exactly what I was saying as being plausible. And why was he answering for llama?

He's saying what he thinks is likely, but acknowledging that what you say is possible. Why is that so bad?

And there is usually nothing scummy about "answering for other people", "defending", etc.

It isn't even BW analysis. He is talking about how Fate and I had both cast two votes (at the time) with no follow up to why this is important. Maybe subtle suspicion isn't the way you read it, but I am a more cynical reader and comments like this look to me like he is saying "these two people are voting more than anyone else. Since I'm not going to comment on this, does anyone else think anything of this?"

By BW analysis, I mean that he is treating votes as sources of information in and of themselves.

With that in mind, my point is that for a player who is playing that

awful

way, it makes sense that they would note those sorts of things. When people do the "subtly plant suspicion" in the scummy sense, it's usually more explicit - ie. they might say "I'm not sure what to make of those votes". Simply stating that they had both cast two votes can't do that, because there is no way that that fact can lead to reasonable suspicion

Cop is without question the number 1 pick for spot 1. Every night you can basically confirm town, and have the best chance at catching scum. Which is better than vigging. Because vigging someone whose scummy but town is worse than getting a confirmation on them.

Moreover you’re going to be the #1 target for scum. So also our weak doctors target for night protections. So scum have to be aiming for our weak doctor all the while you’re confirming people.

Sure scum could go for this. And I drink a lot of wine when I look at G-man and what he’s done/said/is. Scum could go for it, and go for broke, only to nullify the single most powerful town role. But they’d have to be pretending to be a cop, giving a few results on whomever..Maybe even Nking a townie they confirmed or something, but they’d have to eventually give over a scum. Either bussing, or lying themselves. Moreover when/if the weak doctor was ever NK’d the cop would have to die the next night. And if they didn’t they’d be lynch fodder. Therefore (wine) sacrificing a weak scum to knock out the most powerful town role, doesn’t appear to be a bad idea. That is G-man, and I say this only because of his join-date.

Let’s just say if he didn’t pick cop, I’d like to lynch him right now relentlessly.

Guderian

did you pick Cop?

The above makes is just stupid.

First, it isn't at all true that cop would be the number one choice for town.

Second, a scum cop can cause massive confusion (through declaring innocent investigations) and generate a mislynch for scum (by claiming a guilty). In short, while a scum cop can't survive long-term, it is a viable choice for scum.

@llamafluff

Do you have any meta evidence for your professed preference for vanilla?

[LlamaFluff]

I HATE being strong power roles. Anyone who has ever played with me before knows this fact, I would rather draw vanilla then cop, vig, doctor, etc. Having night actions to in depth consider messes with my ability to play a good game, almost every time I am unhappy with my play, I was non-vanilla. I hoped for the bottom 1/3 of the list, so I could take a role that I can still use, but also enjoy a bit more. If I was at the top of the list, I might be able to take a decent role out of scum hands
but I also would not really have much fun. I know this game is pick your power, but what if I dont like many powers available?

But how did you strategically pick your numbers so you would be at the bottom?

I just picked a mid range number with high kicker. Figured most people would pick 1-3, 7-9 or 13-15, so went for the dead middle of it all.

Llama, why not get high in the order and pick a scum based role and then never use it? Wouldn't that be better than deliberately trying to get a low draw to avoid a role? I'm not liking the whole "I wanted to be vanilla" stuff, smells fishy to me.

If I had gotten a high role thats what I would have done. Hard to for sure get high or low. Also I never said I wanted to draw vanilla, there are a handful of roles in this game I would like to be. Compared to most though, yes I would prefer vanilla.

But this is a direct contradiction. Why not go for a high number and pick one of the roles you would like to be, and if already selected, then win for the VT assignment?

Because if I got a top few draft pick, I would be obligated to take a strong role out of scum hands, not a role that I would like to be. Out of the list, there were only a few roles that I went "ooh that would be fun". Most were along the lines of "thats a stupid role".

Benmage - you whole premise is based on the weak doc being in town's hands, which is something we don't necessarily know.

Thats why he is my vote. Your weak bus of ben is noted...

@llamafluff

Do you have any meta evidence for your professed preference for vanilla?

Do you want game threads or MD threads? Multiple of both exist. Especially for the vig hate. I even adhere to the like for vanilla games to an extent as a mod, you were in that last mountainous-esq theme I ran

Ben +

volio

wagon = victory... lets go

[LlamaFluff]

Dear me who has not been driven to alchohol by family issues,

INhim is also probably scum

Love youts truely,

The romeo allegory lion

[Fate]

*sigh*

Well I was kinda trying to avoid doing this, its a big elephant in the room. But he's left me no choice by addressing me:

I'm begging Fate to rip you a new one here.

Prana, dearest, we love you. I want you to know that no matter what's going on in your life, we are here for you and we won't judge you. There's nothing wrong with you, nothing

wrong

at all. You're just unique, you just like to talk to people who only exist in your mind! Its just a sickness, like a cough or a flu you know? Only they call it "schizophrenia" in your case.

We're going to take you to the doctor now, and make you all better!

Please, no Prana, put that down. PRANA. STOP. Calm down, we're not calling you

insane

we're NOT!

Prana listen, you NEED to come back to us. You're not the same as you were as a child. You argue with yourself over the best strategies and theories, and then you ask Uncle Fate to help you in your arguments? We're worried about you, we really are.

Those people that are bothering you, those people who have been in your life for so long, they aren't really there. You can survive without them, you have us, Prana, please. Let us help.

Please.

[LlamaFluff]

Fate, vote Ben.

DONT MAKE ME CAP LOCK TO CONVINCE YOU

Guardian is probably VVI town, Ben is scum, for multiple reasons. The most recent already outlined, the most previous from before the game started.