California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[Mr. Grey]

Deadline:

Approximately 54 hours from this post.

Vote Count:

6 to lynch.

Zindaras: 3 (Gaspar, PookyTheMagicalBear, Sarcastro)
PookyTheMagicalBear: 2 (foolinc, Talitha)
Dragon Phoenix: 1 (Setael)
Sarcastro: 1 (Dragon Phoenix)
Setael: 1 (IH)

Current Condorcet Winner:

None. Current Smith Set: Dragon Phoenix, Gaspar, IH, PookyTheMagicalBear, Sarcastro, Setael, Silent Lee/the silent speaker, Talitha, Zindaras

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put this information in this form.

[IH]

I'm a normal townie doctor who did not protect logictus. That's it. Nothing more. However, I am going to note that you are trying to connect me with Zindy with this "what if I was scum post."

I'd also like you to explain what makes you think there is the 3rd killing group?

Yes. I did indeed connect you with Zindie. If you're scum.

Also I refuse to explain my reasoning. If you can't read, I can't explain.

[Gaspar]

Deadline in just over two days... Zindie should claim, and we should be getting a bit more serious about what we're going to do here and now.



I'd move to Tally or DP or possibly even SiLee before the end of the day, but Zindie's the best bet for now.

[Setael]

How is Zindie the best bet? I'm not feeling the Zindie wagon at all. There are AT LEAST two, maybe three scum still out there and they could easily have steered the focus away from one of themselves (Zindie if he was scum) without looking obvious. I have no doubt that if Zindie was scum, there would be no wagon on him right now. DP or IH are the only ones I'd be willing to vote for. Some of you townies need to change your votes.

[Gaspar]

Perhaps there were two pairs of lovers, since Tamuz's scene makes it clear his death was not the work of any anti-town poisoner? If so, what are the implications for whether Lee was part of a scumgroup vs. working alone?

I'm not convinced that the poisoner was anti-town to begin with.
I am also not sure why you seem to bring up Lee being part of a scumgroup. The character and the role ID "Mass Murderer" don't really add up to "Mafia Scum" in my opinion. And yet

again

I bring up the general lack of multiplekillspernight. LmL was almost *certainly* working solo.

Glork decided that I'm sitting the fence, which is also a quite stupid suggestion, since I made my decision before we got a lynch.

No, Logic made your decision for you. You'd have to be a wretchedly awful player to lynch a claimed mason at that stage in a day.


Other assorted news and notes:
Something in Sarc's play reminds me of the way CES said "I'm going to follow your lead regarding MBL" to me in Face-To-Face Mafia. Both CES and MBL were scum. I'm not really all that convinced there's a direct parallel (mostly because I don't find Sarc's predecessors to be all that scummy), but the thought just occurred to me, and I feel like pointing it out. Even though Sarc has said he's having issues with reading people in the game, I'd like to see, before day's end, a rundown of his thoughts on each player, as best as he can give them. This applies paricularly to the folks he hasn't really mentioned so far.

I'd like to hear from Pooky what *exactly* he wants Zindaras dead for. IIRC, yesterday he said he wanted Gaspar/Sarc dead without reasoning, and today he's done the same to Gaspar/Zindaras. I want to know what Pooky thinks about each of the three of us and

why

he's thinking that, because at this stage the why is at least as important as the who.

IH: I think Foolinc's request was to have you explain what (if anything) makes you think an additional killing group is

likely

at this point, separate from what you think of his own alignment. I don't really have a good picture of that myself, so if you've explained "I think that there are two killgroups still alive because X, Y, Z" then I don't think you did a very good job of it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Look Zindaras, I know you are a good player, I know this because I've played enough wtih you to form that opinion of you.

Now it's 2 days before deadline on the day b4 LyLo and you seem to have decided that it's not important for you to actually have any strong opinions on who is scum.

I would expect ZindieTown to have at least SOME idea of who he thinks is scum and posted at least once today about who he thinks is scum and pushing for that person's lynch.

Basically the ship is sinking and I don't think Zindie cares.

I can't believe that ZindieTown would let the ship sink idly.

[IH]

I'd also like you to explain what makes you think there is the 3rd killing group?

Well, I'd have to explain through my logic again.... and I don't think I'd do a very much different job of what I did last time (since he asks what makes me think there is a third one), I'm not going to do it again, as it would distract away from the importance of what we're talking about it.

Also, IH SMASH.

Pooky, you're not following the Zindie trend for ALL of his games though......

pretty much for me, a Zindy lynch would be a complete tossup, a 50/50 chance to try and avoid the no lynch, especially after the fiasco yesterday. Zindy, claim TONIGHT, so we don't have literally HOURS to try and figure out if we want to lynch someone else.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I can understand someone lurking through day 1, day 2, or day 3 or just not giving a shit.

But this is a game where we are 1 day from LYLO and we have PRESET DEADLINES THAT ARE MUCH SHORTER THAN HIS OTHER GAMES.

You can't make the comparison!

[Silent Lee]

(TSS.) Going through DP, I first noticed this.

little contributions but accessibility problems. Need to see more of her. For the time being neutral.

DP had noted the accessibility problems for the benefit of the thread himself. I don't doubt that the accessibility issues were genuinely there, but could ths be a case of heightened awarenes of a scumbuddy?

Also to note:

I will do so later "today" when it becomes meaningful.

I go back to Skruffs, and wtill do the condorcet thingy

Yes, technically this was later in the day, but what had made it suddenly meaningful?

At around the beginning of day 2,

Adele: little to go on.

Yet she moves up a notch on his condorcet from her place the day before, when she was tied for the bottom bar DP himself and no lynch. She moved up another notch in his next condorcet, no reason given.

I agree with DP that CES's "sweet. Daykill!" post [642] looks pretty scummy.

In the same post, he called Talitha out as scummy for saying she had no reads on people, and said he had no read on Pooky. Okay, one person vs. everyone in the game, but I still thought it was amusing. Also, the post of Talitha's he referenced was one where she did express opinions on one person she thought scummy: MOS/DB.
Never mind, he retracted.

There was a Thesp-DP interaction speculating on the possibility that Skruffs (who had claimed a blocked action) could be a mafia roleblocker. Posts 781-796. I'm not fond of any of it. I hadn't remembered that the first person to mention the possibility of a scum blocker was Thesp; IMO this supports my contention that Talitha hypoed power scum because she kew they were there. DP implied that if one dies, Skruffs must hang next; Mgm rightly called him on this logic as being extremely stupid. DP seems to have consistently liked Thesp.

DP appears to have suspected foolinc on the grounds that he called a secret word a "password". I don't get his point, as it was perfectly plain what foolinc was referring to. I find it unlikely that all town would have a secret word and no scum would, lest a wordclaim break the game.

In view of previous expressed sentiments on CES and recent expressed sentiments on Setael, I find this post:

think the "case" against CES is total bull.

very

very

interesting.

Post 1593 is an attempt to frame Talitha that does not stick.

"Frame"? If you think I am wrong in my suspicions, say so. If you think I am posting them in

mala fides

, put your money where your mouth is.

Overall I have fainter suspicion of DP than I do of Talitha, but there are a number of points that make me worry.

IH will be next.

[Zindaras]

No, Logic made your decision for you. You'd have to be a wretchedly awful player to lynch a claimed mason at that stage in a day.

So now you're going to throw semantics in here? I'm not to be blamed for his claim. I came off the fence. Whatever my eventual decision was is irrelevant. I made it, I voted. If logic hadn't claimed, I'd still have voted.

Now, to answer Pooky, some gut reads:

foolinc's town. Pooky's probably town. I like Setael, like I said before. Glork's probably scum. The Glorkdar has been steadily pinging away, and if it says Glork's scum, he probably is. The other guys I'm not sure about, I'd put Silent Lee as second best.

[Gaspar]

You're not to be blamed for Logic claiming. You're to be blamed for the fact that you never took a stand before his claiming.... which is exactly my point.

[IH]

You can't make the comparison!

Watch me.

When someone doesn't have time to get on and is apathetic for everything.... well it's not really dependent on game, or status. You act like Zindie has so much put into this game he should care, but with the game growing this lage (almost 70 pages at this point), it's only going to get worse.

I would also compare players that began to get apathetic in LO or LO2.

I'd just say at this point it's not a tell for Zindie. Not at the moment.

[Setael]

Can someone tell me what LO and LO2 stand for there? /awkward newbishness

[Dragon Phoenix]

I don't sense any real scum vibe from Zindaras - except that I am beginning to become a bit sceptical with respect to his passiveness as well. Silent Lee and Zindaras are STILL not on the voting board, and that is just simply bad, whether you are town or scum. Since no-one is wanting to follow my Sarcastro lead, and a switch to my #2 suspect is hardly better, I will probably switch to Pooky or Zindaras if he does not contribute more. I will have a re-read of today's happenings first.

[Talitha]

Seeing as it's likely we are not going to reach a lynch today I would like Pooky to use a condorcet list to vote with. Because he's not using one right now I consider him to be protecting Gaspar. He has mentioned that he thinks Gaspar is scum more than once, but he consistently won't do anything about trying to kill him.

[Silent Lee]

(MBL) Back from 3 day training for a new job, situation looks dire, not sure Zindy is a good choice at all, will review and post pronto.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Cherry picking your psots, because some of them are to vague to warrant an answer:

(TSS.)

I will do so later "today" when it becomes meaningful.

I go back to Skruffs, and wtill do the condorcet thingy

Yes, technically this was later in the day, but what had made it suddenly meaningful?

Over a 100 posts inbetween, so much more to go on. Duh.

At around the beginning of day 2,

Adele: little to go on.

Yet she moves up a notch on his condorcet from her place the day before, when she was tied for the bottom bar DP himself and no lynch. She moved up another notch in his next condorcet, no reason given.

It did not occur to you that she moved up because others moved down? As soon as you start ranking players as Probable town, the ones you do not have a read on yet move up. Duh.

There was a Thesp-DP interaction speculating on the possibility that Skruffs (who had claimed a blocked action) could be a mafia roleblocker. Posts 781-796. I'm not fond of any of it. I hadn't remembered that the first person to mention the possibility of a scum blocker was Thesp; IMO this supports my contention that Talitha hypoed power scum because she kew they were there. DP implied that if one dies, Skruffs must hang next; Mgm rightly called him on this logic as being extremely stupid. DP seems to have consistently liked Thesp.

Please state where I said what you are attributing to me (DP implied that if one dies, Skruffs must hang next)? And indeed, I did not suspect Thesp that much. My bad or his good.

DP appears to have suspected foolinc on the grounds that he called a secret word a "password". I don't get his point, as it was perfectly plain what foolinc was referring to. I find it unlikely that all town would have a secret word and no scum would, lest a wordclaim break the game.

I agree it is not likely, but it is worthwhile enough to discuss.

In view of previous expressed sentiments on CES and recent expressed sentiments on Setael, I find this post:

think the "case" against CES is total bull.

very

very

interesting.

Care to say why this is so interesting? I am still suspecting CES but not on the basis of that particular bullshit argument.

Post 1593 is an attempt to frame Talitha that does not stick.

"Frame"? If you think I am wrong in my suspicions, say so. If you think I am posting them in

mala fides

, put your money where your mouth is.

I probably should have said "looks like" instead of "is", I'll grant you that.

[Setael]

I don't sense any real scum vibe from Zindaras - except that I am beginning to become a bit sceptical with respect to his passiveness as well. Silent Lee and Zindaras are STILL not on the voting board, and that is just simply bad, whether you are town or scum. Since no-one is wanting to follow my Sarcastro lead, and a switch to my #2 suspect is hardly better, I will probably switch to Pooky or Zindaras if he does not contribute more. I will have a re-read of today's happenings first.

Feels very much like DP knows Zindaras will come up town and is planting insurance for when that happens. I won't be voting Zindy.

[Gaspar]

Seeing as it's likely we are not going to reach a lynch today I would like Pooky to use a condorcet list to vote with. Because he's not using one right now I consider him to be protecting Gaspar. He has mentioned that he thinks Gaspar is scum more than once, but he consistently won't do anything about trying to kill him.

That's nice. Would you care to reply to my post regarding you?

Zindaras needs to claim

now

, because there isn't that much time left until deadline. We may need another claim or three before today runs out, too. Now is not the time for people to be ignoring/downplaying cases on them or failing to take a reasonable stand.


Also, I will be mostly unavailable this weekend (college reunion)... possibly as early as this evening. I'd *REALLY* like to be absolutely sure of what I'm doing before then.

[Gaspar]

EBWOP: Post

s

, not post. 1687-1689, Talitha.

[Talitha]

Naw - regardless of alignment it doesn't usually work out for me (or my side) getting into wall-of-text arguments with people who enjoy arguments. (Something I have learnt from Antrax and others.) Especially when my mafia time is severely limited. Plus I didn't really read them because I severely doubt your pro-town integrity in this game. I have already made up my mind on you and don't really care what you say you think of me.

But, so that I'm not being a complete jerk... if you'd like to summarise your main points into a couple of sentences I may have time to address them this game day.

[Talitha]

PS: Nice side-step of the Pooky issue. Showed finesse. I almost didn't notice.

[Gaspar]

Responses to your points against me:

1) I can't do much about Thesp's play. There are a number of players that he didn't give a lot of attention to.
2) If you bothered to look at context, you would know why. MoS starts of literally every single game with a random vote. Attacking him for demonstrating the randomness of his vote obviously wasn't something that PWS found helpful. (Note that Pooky gave a following explanation, which prompted PWS's 263.)
3) I don't see how there's an assumption that MoS is town. What I'm seeing is PWS saying "Pooky, I don't see how you as town would vote somebody to see if people jump on." Where is the "MoS = Town" assumption exactly?

I noted that Thesp didn't really interact with much of anybody, aside from trying to get LmL, IH, and MoS/Dani/NowSarc lynched.

I noted this:

---Actually, what I find interesting is this quote

Hmm, looks like Glork/Gaspar beats me to most of the points/thoughts I'm making here.

...which looks more like an ass-kissing job than a scumbuddy interaction. (Furhter notable given he lauded my performance after our most recent game together, Face-To-Face. I could easily see him trying to get on my good side.) Thoughts, people?---

...and analysis of your interactions towards Thesp.

Mentioning #1 -- Tally makes a point to go over Thesp's posts later and tacks him to the end of her Condorcet. Interestingly enough, the post in which she implies a Thesp/PWS connection, Thesp says the same thing to PWS.
Matthew 7:5 comes to mind here.

Mentioning #2 -- Tally mentions Thesp in passing while defending herself against Dani.

Mentioning #3 -- Tally defends Thesp against Dani. Double-team gogogo!

Mentioning #4 -- Thesp is still sitting lazily at the bottom of her Condorcet, which comes after another "I need to look over some players" comment. Also noteworthy (mostly because I'm an egocentric bastard) that she sheeped on to Foolinc following my reasoning.

Mentio... no wait, that was it. The next time she mentions Thesp is after he's dead.[

I think that should suffice.

[Gaspar]

EBWOP: What issue? Pooky's protown, and I am, too, and you're pointing in the wrong directions. In case you haven't been paying attention,

I have already asked Pooky to flesh out his thoughts on me, Zindaras, and Sarcastro

. Not really sure what you're looking for.

[Talitha]

You think Thesp wouldn't ass-kiss a scumbuddy? Why? I think he would be trying not to treat his scumbuddies any different to how he treats the townies. Did you see the post where he kissed my ass too? I don't really see the relevance I guess.

The second part is a list of my interactions with Thesp, which I am also struggling to see the relevance of. "Double-team gogogo"? You could say that about any two players who agreed on anything during this game.

This post feels inadequate (and is why i dont wanna get into an argument. I dont like feeling inadequate) but now me and the kids are late for school.