Blitz 1: C9++ (GAME OVER!)

[Flubbernugget]

i claim vt

pro needs to confirm his claim

[ProHawk]

Vt confirmed.

[OceanWind]

Ranger needs to claim.

Kop needs to explain why his choice of protects are seemingly random specifically why he protected Ranger of all people when he voted her yesterday.

[Ranger]

Fine. Not a role, just a VT, but I still don't see Kop's claim as working.

[Kop]

I am The Town Doctor.

I protected Firebringer night one. Simply for that crumb, obviously now it wasn't a crumb, but at the time, I couldn't take a chance to doubt it's integrity.
I protected Flubbernugget night two.
I protected Ranger night three.

Those weren't necessarily my reads at the time, I was trying to second guess scum, as it looked like they were hitting randomly and not hitting players who are in general active a lot in the thread.

I've explained it here. After night one they shot Kraeg, I asked myself Kraeg wasn't exactly active in the thread why would they shoot him, night two Flubbernugget was a person I thought they may have shot as the others who were active were either shooting at wrong targets or looked like things could have been swayed from scum onto them. Ranger was a quick glance, had very little attention day three, no wagon could have formed, I presumed that may have took the shot, obviously not. They were not reads to why I protected them, I tried to second guess scum a gambit I got wrong. I mean look at Firebringer had quite a lot of attention but yet he was shot. That alone tells you one thing.

[Persivul]

Did you crumb your role at all? If so where?

[Marge]

Okay so we had a 1-shot vig
The 1 shot cop
The doc claim and the Mason claim (that is lying because all you have to do is read persivul ISO and see he never defended ocean when people pushed him)


Pro, ranger and Flubber what are your thought on who is scum?

[Persivul]

the Mason claim (that is lying because all you have to do is read persivul ISO and see he never defended ocean when people pushed him)

What game have you been in? Did you miss these defenses?

1273 1287 1339 1382 1464 1478

[Marge]

the Mason claim (that is lying because all you have to do is read persivul ISO and see he never defended ocean when people pushed him)

What game have you been in? Did you miss these defenses?

1273 1287 1339 1382 1464 1478

Yup.
When I get home I'll have some wonderful quotes for you too.

[Persivul]

Yup.

So you didn't really read my ISO looking for ocean defenses, but you claimed you did. Got it.

When I get home I'll have some wonderful quotes for you too.

Cool. You can show that ocean defended me as well, but there's no third party that we mutually defended - perfectly consistent with masons.

[OceanWind]

@Marge, when playing Masons, you need to act natural around your partner and at least be reasonable when pretending to say you have a townread. You can't just townread someone out of blue as that would cause even more suspicion and attention drawn to you which would ultimately cause you to out as a Mason.

Persivul and I defended each other as much as needed without drawing overt attention to ourselves and making it seem like our reads on each other are at least plausible and organic. The quotes he showed more than illustrate how our play developed.

[OceanWind]

For my part, I questioned Persivul a little, called him null and then soon upgraded it to town while explaining to ETL why she was wrong. ETL was extremely worried that I was jumping in to head off her suspicion without realizing that I wasn't in fact interested in reading Persivul because I already knew he was town. This could create a false positive where she suspected me because I wasn't trying to honestly read Persivul and is a large part of the reason I disagreed with Persivul about ETL's alignment - I felt that she could be town genuinely thinking our mason interactions were scum interactions.

That's also why I thought Flubber was town because part of his case on me seems like he thought I should be reading Persivul as scum instead of assuming he was town and going after Ranger which I'm not sure I'd have done if I didn't already know that Persivul was town. I'm not really sold on Flubber-town at this point though.

[Persivul]

Yep. Note that ocean first defended me by basically saying I was incompetent, but not scummy. It pissed me off a little but I understood why he did it.

[Rob14]

Vote Count #4.1 (unchanged):

Not Voting:

OceanWind, Ranger, Flubbernugget, Persivul, Kop, ProHawk, Marge

With 7 people alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

V/LA:

None

Deadline:

(expired on 2015-11-16 10:32:00)

[Ranger]

Pro, ranger and Flubber what are your thought on who is scum?

Well I think the masons are town (don't see scum risking it), which narrows it down to you/ProHawk/Flubber/Kop by default.

Kop really,

really

looks like scum, though.

[Marge]

Pro, ranger and Flubber what are your thought on who is scum?

Well I think the masons are town (don't see scum risking it), which narrows it down to you/ProHawk/Flubber/Kop by default.

Kop really,

really

looks like scum, though.

Why not?
He ocean claimed and never verified anything.
2 players attacked ocean and finally even after the claim fire is killed over the "claimed Mason"
Yeah I don't think so.

Also your at poe with no reason is awful

[Marge]

As promised I'm using quotes to show why I see the mason claim is fake as shit.

Blocky shouldn't be at L-1. Agreeing with the current wagons can be opportunistic. It can also mean that the people on those wagons are making good arguments and persuading people, which is what town is supposed to do. I rather think someone is opportunistic when they make abrupt changes from one wagon to another.

On the positive side, he noted that Ranger is buddying, which is something I thought too after Ranger proposed a town block.

Four people - Kraeg, Ocean, Kop, ETL - have post counts in the single digits. I'll bet there's 1-2 scum there. From the rest I'm suspicious of Marge and Ranger.

I hate Titus' breaking idea, but I butt heads with Titus on breaking almost every time we play together so that's not giving me a read.

Ocean is listed as players that are low posting and maybe scum.

Reads preview:

Town - Flubber, ETL
Lean town - Ythan

Lean scum - Kop
Scum - Margeside

Will sort the rest later.

Maybe people could put up reads instead of bare votes so we actually have something to analyze...

Ocean is not on town list.

Firebringer's ISO reads like a heckler at open mike night. He just criticizes other people's pushes but doesn't make any of his own. I forgot that he even advocated no lynch at one point.

I wouldn't mind lynching him either, but I prefer getting the ocean flip first.

In thread ocean hasn't pinged me. I need to read her ISO. What are the top points of the case on her?

Asking about a case on ocean instead of saying ocean is town.

In thread ocean hasn't pinged me. I need to read her ISO. What are the top points of the case on her?

Are you trying to outdo Flubber as far as dumb is concerned or do you not know how to read the "pronoun" section of someone's profile tag?

I didn't notice
oceanwind's a feminine
guy name are you gay

Mason's would have already discussed gender at this point in a pt.

someone please tell me
what the charges are on him
and maybe we will

This post is in regards to ocean being scum read.
Again not defending and saying maybe lynch.

Anyone thinking that lynching there mason buddy is playing to your win condition let me know.

In the meantime.

Vote: persivul

Also getting the satisfaction of telling ythan he was wrong about persivul gives me some satisfaction.
I'm sure he'll still bitch

[Ranger]

2 players attacked ocean and finally even after the claim fire is killed over the "claimed Mason"

And

if

Kop is a real doctor, then scum had reason to fear a kill attempt.

Mason's would have already discussed gender at this point in a pt.

...And mafia wouldn't?

The rest of those look like smart mason play. I don't see explicit calling out of Ocean being scum. I see soft defenses of him that don't paint a neon sign saying, "SHOOT ME OR OCEAN BECAUSE WE ARE MASONS".

Your posting is looking more and more like cornered scum.

[OceanWind]

@Marge,

1. I had not posted anything at the time that Persivul called me out on not posting. He couldn't just ignore me and point fingers at the others. Because the next question would be: "Ocean hasn't posted either, why no mention of him?" Persivul would have no answer. The issue would blow out of proportion, he'd get wagoned, and we'd ultimately have to out D1. I talked about this in my previous post.

2. When Persivul asked for a case on me from ETL, Persivul was obviously trying to read ETL based on how she formulated her case. He knew I was town but he still needed to scrutinize how ETL scumhunts so he can read her.

3. I just glanced through our Mason PT and we actually never referred to each other in the third person. There were only two of us in the PT so we addressed each other in the second person.

4. He was obviously trying to bait Flubber into making a case.

I mean, some of our interactions look contrived because we were trying to hide our identity from the scum. You're acting like we'd just come into the game hard-townreading each other and either make it super-obvious that we're Masons or attract enough suspicion to have to claim. We tried to conceal ourselves while trying to read others based on the cases they made on us while at the same time defending each other from suspicion.

I assume I wasn't killed because scum either thought they could mislynch me based on ETL's last words or they thought Firebringer had a more threatening power role, or they thought I'd be protected. I'm not sure which it is but if it the first case, I think you're scum due to your continued push on us. If it is the second, I suspect Kop because he said he thought Firebringer was a PR and now Firebringer is dead.

[OceanWind]

Marge's play makes a lot of sense from cornered scum who is getting POE'd out because of two outed Masons in a seven-way LYLO. That leaves around three scum out of five remaining players which means they are getting boxed out really efficiently and need to attack us to undermine our claim.

[OceanWind]

Your argument comes down to "you two didn't consistently townread each other early game" which ignores my post before yours where I explain why that's not a practical play as Masons. Perhaps some people think that optimal play as Masons is to townread each other right off the bat but that's not a feasible strategy for most players because questions will be raised and a Mason's goal of flying under the radar becomes less achievable the more attention and questions we draw.

Secondly, you have a one-dimensional insistence that Persivul asking for cases, reads, and justification on me is scummy.

How people make cases is a good way to read the case-maker, not just the casee.

ETL making a case on me would help a player read ETL herself, not just read me. Pushing Flubber into making a case by acting like he could be convinced is a great way to have Flubber put his guard down and churn out a case therefore helping Persivul develop a read on Flubber. You seem experienced enough to know this, specifically the underlined so why are you acting it doesn't exist? As far as responses go, it is pretty clear that Persivul didn't jump on my wagon nor did he have any intention to no matter how good the case was although a good case would have been indicative of the person making the case being probably town.

[OceanWind]

I think Kop and Marge make sense as a scumteam. Marge has been insisting that Kop is scum since very early on in the game and she pushed a last minute deadline wagon on Kop when it looked like either me or Titus were getting lynched anyways. After that, Marge for the most part has forgotten about Kop and always had Kop as a "secondary scumread" that she never pushes. She always tends to find a player she wants to push harder than Kop. During D1, it was Persivul. During D2, it was Ythan. During D3, it was EspeciallyTheLies. D4, it is back to Persivul (and now me). What happened to this Kop push and why does Kop always take a backseat to a push on anyone else? Why did you never question Kop's doc targets?

[ProHawk]

I'm sorta despondent because my reads have been sucky all around. I am leaning scum on Ranger though.

[OceanWind]

Is Ranger your only read? What are your reads on everyone else?

[ProHawk]

K, im gonna try at a setup crack I guess... not usually good at this.

So we have for sure...

1 C
1 V

Claimed:
MM

Which would then leave TTT Right? 2 Goons + Roleblocker, Serial Killer