Mini 1701 - Modified Werewolf 13er

[Dierfire]

I read through a bit already, but I'll keep going. I think that Red had an innocent result on KMD based on 1276. That would have been his first result, and presumably Bulbazoor was his second in 1322. Based on the thoughts that he was outlining and the wagon that he lead on Zoronos, it makes sense to me that KMD would have been his first investigation (for being on the same wagon as Banakai).
I wasn't liking what I saw from Keyser but I need to read more before I put a vote there. BBT and Doctor Who seemed fairly Town to me although admittedly most of my impression of Doctor Who turned on the fake Angel claim.

[Dierfire]

Wait, Keyser's not voting for my slot? That's worrisome.

[Dierfire]

Right, time for fast mode!
BBT should be Town because he picked up Red's guilty result on Bulbazoor.
Doctor Who is likely Town, the best evidence that I found was the fake claim.
Keyser didn't turn on Bulbazoor until BBT saw the claim. In fact, he was trying to deflect the suspicion (1433 was especially bad after 1408 admitted to not looking at the slot in a while). Keyser's been shadowing my (slot's) votes for the whole game, so this lynch was likely planned sooner or later. Probably he'd try to get Doctor Who lynched tomorrow.
If Boon is Mafia then the first day took place in a bus depot. His ISO itself is sparse, though, so more reading will follow these initial thoughts.

[Dierfire]

I read through a bit already, but I'll keep going. I think that Red had an innocent result on KMD based on 1276. That would have been his first result, and presumably Bulbazoor was his second in 1322. Based on the thoughts that he was outlining and the wagon that he lead on Zoronos, it makes sense to me that KMD would have been his first investigation (for being on the same wagon as Banakai).
I wasn't liking what I saw from Keyser but I need to read more before I put a vote there. BBT and Doctor Who seemed fairly Town to me although admittedly most of my impression of Doctor Who turned on the fake Angel claim.

Oh, "Red" here is RedCoyote, not redFF (my slot).

[Dierfire]

I read through Banakai's ISO and it more than anything Boon said makes me worry about Boon being Mafia. The seeming tunnel on Boon would be a good disguise to help clear Boon later. I'd think that Bulbazoor would be a better source of information than Banakai, though--he reads inexperienced to me and therefore more likely to drop clues for us. It's possibly confounded by Banakai's name on the list, but it's easy to see Bulbazoor worried here:

Update: Have read through 12 pages. There is a lot going on and my head is starting to hurt. At this stage BBT and Banakai both look really bad; redFF looks really good. I don't like Keyser but a few things make me feel he

may

be town. Everybody else doesn't register too much either way.

I'm sure things will change in the next 8 pages, but I need a small break before heading back down into the salt mines.

Elaborate why. You do not have to but I would like it if you did.

@BBT

Did you get enough of an impression of Bulbazoor in real time to guess how he'd interact with the third member of his team? I would have guessed that he'd play for distance from both, which may fit Boon better than it does Keyser. In particular, 386 seems bold to me coming from Bulbazoor.

[Dierfire]

If it turns out that the Mafia were using "dude" as a code word--or anything in Banakai's 696, then I am great at this game. I think that he was calling for one of his partners to vote for him. Bulbazoor picked it up, but it may have been aimed at Keyser.

I think banakai is a lovely dude with a great personality. He is very attractive. I look up to him and hope to meet him someday.

[Dierfire]

All right, I'm done reading the dead Mafia players. In summary, I think that both Bulbazoor and Banakai point to Keyser a fair amount, although I'd still consider an outside chance that Boon would be Mafia.
I'm going to read Doctor Who now.

[Dierfire]

The confusion in 473 is interesting to me. Banakai (claims to have) thought that Boon replaced Woody. This would potentially change the direction of some of the clues in his ISO with regard to the case that he "invented" on Boon.

[Dierfire]

I've finished with Doctor Who's ISO. His reaction to BBT seemed fairly Town to me--to him, the vote on Woody would have seemed bad because Woody's alignment would have been obvious to him. The fake claim again seemed fairly Town, and he set it up nicely which makes me think that it was planned.
His theory that Banakai was reacting to his partners voting for him is either perceptive or informed. I still think that he should see the next day.

[Dierfire]

VOTE: Keyser Söze

[Doctor Who]

Keyser is my runner up for scum.

[Doctor Who]

Dierfire, I'm impressed with what you put into this game. Hats off to you.

[Dierfire]

Thanks, I think!

[Doctor Who]

Dierfire, redFF never responded to this. What do you make of it? I'm particularly interested in what you think about the chainsaw.

Spoiler: DW's case on redFF

Some info on redFF:

if u iso woodywoodpecker he has a LOT of posts, very little, if any, scumhunting. the posts are mainly contentless/defending himself, which are both types of posts that werewolves would make
so

vote:woodywoodpecker

pedit: scum can be active, u r an example ww

Weak sauce reason for voting me, sliding right onto the extremely early wagon Day 1.

unvote

didn't kno it was l-1, still think ur scummy

mod we need a votecount pls

"Whoops"

goddamnit why did u claim we're not even 12 hours into day 1 lol

villager is what a mafia would claim since its an open setup so u claiming early does nothing to show that you are town

why would u claim lol

godammnit

woody is scrub overly defensive town or werewolf

KMD noted this before, the lol's were unusual. More like scum lol-ing at town for getting a claim so early.

unvote[\b]

ww was an awful player but probably be town, will make a vote later

You'd think after "whoops" that he'd be more careful with votes.

@mod u missed my absta vote in ur vc

like here

intent to hammer
claim pls

note the politeness towards scum-Banakai - the implication being "please claim something so we can let you off the hook or at least lynch a power role".

Maybe this is what also peeved Banakai.

haschel was the obvious nightkill, not sure what angel was doing

im fine with lynching absta or bbt

Scum-gloating that the Angel didn't protect HC.

im not really sure the angel should claim, dont see the benefits of it tbh

Noted against the plan despite its benefits.

im guilty of not paying enough attention to banakai and that wagon, so i can't exactly attack zoronos for doing the same thing tbh

zoronos what are your thoughts on absta? you said you had him as scum, then that you would reread him, and have not really mentioned him since. what the deal with that?

"Not paying enough attention" is an interesting way to put it. He had left his vote on Banakai for a while. Perhaps he regrets not moving his vote off onto another wagon when the chance presented itself.

bbt from one town player to another u should stop tunneling me m8, embarrassing yourself tbh

i could vote bulb today but im weary of getting on an RC-made wagon after yesterdays flip

absta or tony are good lynches today

Noting a mention of bulb, but no action on the voting front. Decent way to say "I suspected him" without voting.

RC i would lynch you over bulb tbh

Chainsaw defense of Bulb, RedC was highly suspecting Bulb by this point. Even though he was willing to vote Bulb before in 1328 quoted above IN THE SAME GAME DAY.

Eh, well, let's not have that. I can't move my vote, especially if no one will consider what I think to be a very valid point about the fact that Bulba hasn't received any pressure this game and hasn't had any real say about anything (he makes sweeping statements, to be sure, but is never challenged or followed up on). I'll hang in the background now like my friend Bulba and let others take the spotlight today. Hopefully that will start earning me some free town credit and I'll be in a better position to spend it tomorrow.

u pushed an easy lynch yesterday with zoronos and are pushing an easy lynch today with bulb

redFF loves the chainsaw!

vote:bulba

Its a mafia scum miracle! "well, my scumbuddy is going down so I'll try to get town cred"

[Dierfire]

I'm privileged in that I already know that redFF was Town. To me, it seems that he plays a bit carelessly. The votes come off haphazardly and he doesn't really think through the mechanics involved in the roles (benefits of having the Angel claim, not considering the possibility that RedCoyote would be a Seer with a result). He also seems to bounce back and forth a bit. Consider this quote, too, though:

I do not like redcpyote so far.

anything beyond OMGUS?

what is your take on the whole me/absta situation

That's immediately after the "chainsaw" on RedCoyote, so maybe he just has some difficulty maintaining a single line of thought at a time?

[Doctor Who]

UNVOTE: Dierfire

@BBT and Boon

- the last scum is redFF or Keyser. Today isn't lylo, but I need you both to see that this is the case. I'd just want to be sure that the other one is the lynch tomorrow if we're wrong today.

[Dierfire]

That seems unwise to me.
How does removing your vote from me help your strategy?

[Doctor Who]

That seems unwise to me.
How does removing your vote from me help your strategy?

I'm confident that BBT and Boon are town. I doubt any of the three of us are getting lynched today, and if the game doesn't end today with a scum lynch that means that one of us is going to get NK'd.

BBT has been paranoid as of late, and Boon hasn't said who he thinks is scum past Dierfire (redFF).

After the scum lynch Day 1, there is no way that there were no scum on the Day 2 mislynch. The only slots not flipped on that are redFF, Keyser, and Boon. Boon was on the scum lynch day 1, and there is no way that all three scum were on it. I think redC investigated BBT, and I'm also trusting BBT's pre-paranoia read on Boon.

I think that if I can convince the two of them, this game is a sure win for town even if there is a mislynch today.

[Dierfire]

I really hope that Keyser is Mafia, then.

[Keyser Söze]

I really hope that Keyser is Mafia, then.

I am willing to be lynched today to have you lynched tomorrow.

Here's my vote: VOTE: Dierfire

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You have also noted that Day 1 reasons for votes were weak, I'd argue that Day 1 votes are generally weak. You've assigned weak votes to more players than there are scum remaining.

I disagree with this - compare Boon's voting/reasoning to Haschel's voting/reasoning and it's night and day. D1 votes can, and should, have solid reasoning behind them. 15+ pages is more than enough information to form a decent case.

Here's that lynch wagon. It'd be way too ballsy for all three scum to be on the lynch wagon - this is part of why I think you and Boon are town. This game isn't completely vanilla - there is a cop. That adds to the riskiness. A scum team that didn't have an opportunity to collude wouldn't all vote one of their own out day 1.

Why did you change your mind? You seemed convinced that both scum were on the Banakai wagon - what happened to change your mind?

I hope to post my read on BlueBloodedToffee in the next 24 hours.

7 days til the deadline.

I hope this has come. Been waiting since D1.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Keyser didn't turn on Bulbazoor until BBT saw the claim. In fact, he was trying to deflect the suspicion (1433 was especially bad after 1408 admitted to not looking at the slot in a while).

I completely missed this, that's a good point.

Did you get enough of an impression of Bulbazoor in real time to guess how he'd interact with the third member of his team? I would have guessed that he'd play for distance from both, which may fit Boon better than it does Keyser. In particular, 386 seems bold to me coming from Bulbazoor.

I said during the game that after multiple games with Bulba I found him near impossible to read - I have no idea how he would react with his buddies. The only reason I thought he could be scum was because I figured RC had a guilty on him.

@BBT and Boon

- the last scum is redFF or Keyser. Today isn't lylo, but I need you both to see that this is the case. I'd just want to be sure that the other one is the lynch tomorrow if we're wrong today.

Dier is not scum - I could lynch Keyser though.

I really hope that Keyser is Mafia, then.

I am willing to be lynched today to have you lynched tomorrow.

Here's my vote: VOTE: Dierfire

Soooo, still no case for me then?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Spoiler: D2 VCs

Vote Count

absta101

(2):

Boonskiies, redFF

Zoronos

(2):

RedCoyote

,

Kmd4390

BlueBloodedToffee

(2):

Doctor Who,

Tony Montana

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Tony Montana

(1):

absta101

Not Voting

(3):

Keyser Söze,

Bulbazoor

, BlueBloodedToffee

Vote Count

Zoronos

(3):

RedCoyote

,

Kmd4390

, Keyser Söze,

absta101

(2):

Boonskiies, redFF

BlueBloodedToffee

(2):

Doctor Who,

Tony Montana

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Tony Montana

(1):

absta101

redFF

(1):

BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting

(1):

Bulbazoor

Vote Count

Zoronos

(3):

RedCoyote

,

Kmd4390

, Keyser Söze,

absta101

(2):

Boonskiies, redFF

Tony Montana

(2):

absta101

,

Bulbazoor

redFF

(2):

BlueBloodedToffee,

Tony Montana

BlueBloodedToffee

(1):

Doctor Who

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Vote Count

Zoronos

(4):

RedCoyote

,

Kmd4390

, Keyser Söze, redFF

Tony Montana

(2):

absta101

,

Bulbazoor

absta101

(1):

Boonskiies

redFF

(1):

BlueBloodedToffee

BlueBloodedToffee

(1):

Doctor Who

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Not Voting

(1):

Tony Montana

Vote Count

Zoronos

(6):

RedCoyote

,

Kmd4390

, Keyser Söze, redFF,

absta101

, Boonskiies

Tony Montana

(1):

Bulbazoor

redFF

(1):

BlueBloodedToffee

BlueBloodedToffee

(1):

Doctor Who

Kmd4390

(1):

Zoronos

Not Voting

(1):

Tony Montana

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Firstly, I think the key thing to note is that the Zoro wagon was town driven by two strong town players - this is important because it makes the Zoro wagon an extremely easy wagon for scum to jump onto.

Looking back, Keyser is first to join the Zoro wagon. His reasoning can be found in 1147. I find this vote weak - he essentially votes Zoro for 'no evidence of rereading/rethinking his reads.' I'm not even sure how any of the things Keyser is pointing out points to Zoro being scum - it doesn't make sense to me. Like, he says Zoro didn't explain some of his reads at end of D1 and wasn't online for hammer - how is that scummy? And if it is, I find it hypocritical that you have been scum reading me since D1 and still haven't explained your read on p66. Thoughts and actions are not matching up here.

Next is redff, his vote can be found in 1259. This is a perfect example of why you explain your reads and your votes because this vote is scummy as fuck coming from a slot that I am town reading. There is no explanation for the vote, no prior suspicion of Zoro to be found and yet he jumps on the wagon - a wagon I said it would be very easy for scum to join earlier. I really don't like this vote.

Then we have Boon's hammer - again, a shitty vote. I hate when town do dumb shit like this, it just makes the game harder to figure out. Like, Keyser's vote out of the 3 is the most explained (even if the reasoning is weak) and then we have two really bad votes (one of which we know has to have come from town) so it's pretty shitty play tbh. Funnily enough, it's the vote that is accompanied by the shitty reasoning that I find the scummiest.

I find it extremely hard to imagine that the last scum is not on that wagon. Right now, it's Keyser > Boon > Redff for me.

[Keyser Söze]

This is where I am:

redFF today.

BlueBloodedToffee tomorrow (but not before a closer look at Boonskiies' slot!).


My 'confident town-reads' have been 100% so far.

From my perspective we should not be lynching one of Red Coyote's town reads. We should be lynching from his scum pool

If Doctor Who is scum, the werewolves have won IMO, as I trust in my town-reads, and won't be lynching Doctor Who.