Mini 1511: Insurgency Emergency (Game Over)

[Albert B. Rampage]

I fakeclaimed because HP and EPM were extremely narrow-minded and were going to cost the town the game with their terrible reads.

I had hoped they would stop their tunnel vision on me with my claim and we would go on to lynch scum, but they simply would not let it go.

I found their play extremely, extremely anti-town and completely sabotaging any chance that this town had to begin with.

My fakeclaim was indeed bad for the town, however it was precipitated by their horrible attitude towards me. Then for no reason at all, both Fusion and EPM claimed under no pressure. Ridiculous.

[Albert B. Rampage]

EPM/HP combination was terrible for town as they both fed off of each other's energy and were relentless in lynching me for no good reason. Made it easy for scum to slip by in the first part of Day 1.

Then I independently decided that these guys had no idea what they were doing and were going to lose the game without me.

Elyse declared herself a mason with me. I was forced to say that we were 3 masons now so that I could deny Elyse being my mason partner later that day, given the opportunity to do so - unfortunately I was insta-lynched.

EPM and Fusion both independently decided that it was a good idea to claim. We lost our PRs for no reason.

Basically, nobody listened to my advice, including myself, and town had bad reads in general, which allowed scum an easy win with little effort.

[havingfitz]

^ I agree with most of this except the part where you fakeclaim. Still not sure what the case on you was.

[Humble Poirot]

I wrote a rant regarding ABR's delusion but it's not even worth it. Someone who fucks up something on purpose after making plenty of mistakes and then blames everyone else while pretending to having been right all along doesn't want to learn from their mistakes.

I'll comment on this game If I can afford some time.

Sorry havingfitz for the tunnel, good game scum.

I'll admit this was a bad game and I focused on havingfitz out of some sort of "I've gone to far to back down now position".

I usually have success with d1 intense pressure where I position myself as town and get scum lynched or at least, remove a scummy player and find pro-town players to work with. Often, I get killed n1 (I believe this could've happened here too, were it not for the claims).

My schedule was too erratic for me to post short and sweet and I exceeded myself with half walls and half inactivity.

What I learned from this is that I've grown to lenient on stupidity and scum is using it to mask malicious intentions (see Elyse). I'll start being awfully strict from now on (I'm going to take a long break though).

Anyway, sorry havingfitz. I actually enjoyed your style although I though that the trolling came from comfortable scum rather than town. And the fact that you seemed to be inconsistent about me (unlike KK who despite my attacks, saw a genuine intent) made me confident I was betting on the right horse.

D1 ruined my usual style because ABR's fuck up & rant placed me in a very bad position. I'm going to have to reconsider how I deal with these situations

I don't understand some actions and I haven't read the QTs or other stuff yet so, I'll try to comment on them whenever I have time.

Actually, just skimming, I think havingfitz needs to review his own history as well:

HP...you were crap this game. You had no solid reason to focus so much on me (see...I'm town) and when you did veer away from me you were just as wrong. You had no solid reason to focus so much on me (see...I'm town) and when you did veer away from me you were just as wrong.

You might need to look at your own participation before being so blunt about me.

You did NOTHING d1. Voted me (wrong) d1 when ABR fucked up. Voted me d2 after I tried to guess the scumteam (2 out of 4 right). Voted the same person I thought was scum and voted (so were only right about the same person) and kept inconsistently on me so you're as much to blame as I am because you DID mislynch. It's easy to accuse others of mislynching when you can't manage to get anyone lynched, yourself. KK and Elyse managed to get me off their backs, you didn't. You just started trolling me.

Finally, implosion, this is not that important but you SHOULD'VE killed someone OTHER than aphix when it was quite likely, as I said, that they had a mafia doc (And not RB since EPM's inspect went through).

See ya.

Tl;Dr: This game should be a lesson not to trust the "I fucked up" card. I have a lot to learn from this game although it WAS atypical in that ABR fucked everything up with his lie (with an interesting gambit from Elyse).

[Zachrulez]

I followed along with this game and the thing that amazed me most was that the town proceeded to lynch ABR despite his mason claim. I could not believe that actually happened. (Regardless of the fact that he actually flipped vanilla.)

[Albert B. Rampage]

In this game, I think that HP/evil screwed up massively which culminated in a domino effect of catastrophes.

In my experience, you do not ask a claimed mason to out their partner. And once a partner has in fact claimed, and there are two claimed masons, you unvote immediately.

I was baffled at the level of stubbornness that HP/Evil had to lynch me despite my PR claim, and Elyse backing it up. It's highly unusual to have this.

HP/Evil wasted their entire day 1 pushing a bad bandwagon and then justified their behavior by telling themselves that I was lying. The entire Day 1 is me telling everyone to back off of evil because I had a strong town read on him, and then evil relentlessly attacking me for no good reason. Being attacked that way is extremely personal and results in plays borne out of frustration.

I had good town reads, and given time, I think that we would have won if HP/evil did not completely mess up Day 1 by misreading 1) my alignment and 2) what I'm capable of given enough reason to believe that the "town leaders" are completely incompetent at scumhunting.

[Humble Poirot]

Oh my gosh... just how deluded and arrogant are you?

Your scumreads were just OMGUSes (me, fusion) and they were ALL wrong! You admitted being scummy and playing horribly and pulled every childish tactic in the book to get your way (including saying you would ignore me).

The game wouldn't have been screwed by a townie ABR lynch. It would've been a bummer for you but we could've moved past that and seen who were genuine about you , who was happy watching from the sidelines, etc.

But your fake claim and successive lies (playing along with Elyse) fucked it all up (And let's not dwelve on your hate posts were you claimed you did what you did out of hate for some players). The worst thing though, is that you're unwilling to acknowledge just how much you fucked up.

2) This is really, really funny to me. You calling me incompetent. If you only had the big picture, you'd see the irony.

[Humble Poirot]

I followed along with this game and the thing that amazed me most was that the town proceeded to lynch ABR despite his mason claim. I could not believe that actually happened. (Regardless of the fact that he actually flipped vanilla.)

Because the claim was a lie. There was a lot of evidence indicating that it was a lie. It was not horribly anti-town but also a BAD fake claim.

My though process varied from point to point:
- I was very sure ABR was scum. (see my meta read close to deadline)
- He claimed partially (This is usually awfully scummy for me) and without giving any indication to his alleged partners (I was completely skeptical as you can see).
- Instead of addressing my points, he called for my lynch because I hadn't unvoted him (Which seemed to indicate that he though that claim would save him).
- Given that I thought he was scum (his d1 attitude didn't fit having a probable town role - talking about his lynch, among other things), I mentioned the neighbor thing and that I thought he might've been scum neighbor to Elyse (Elyse had been town reading ABR for apparent reason).
- he said he wasn't mason with Elyse and claimed that the earlier was "misdirection" (which is usually BS to hide inconsistency with a fakeclaim).
- repeatedly refusing to out his partner (I had predicted this) and having no good explanation for his desire to quiclynch me instead of accepting a compromise of ETL lynch.
- he dared to suggest that if he outed his partner, that it would get NK'd when he had allegedly breadcrumbed who the partner was (more BS).
- Elyse claimed partner but it didn't quite fit because of what Fusion found and ABR's prior "Elyse is not my partner".
- Elyse couldn't explain adequately any of these things.
- Then came the royal BS to top it all of "3 masons but we won't claim the third". I kept insisting that either there was no third partner (Elyse had tried stupidly to save scumpartner ABR) or that they were not confirmed "neighbours" with scum ABR. It was all too bizarre.
- I engaged Elyse and told her that, if she claimed the partner and someone came forward, we would not be lynching any of them.
- Elyse still refused and even dared to suggest the "masons" would die instead of the claimed investigative role.
- Then I left and ABR got lynched. That was a good outcome, the only BAD thing was Fusion's claim and death.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Alright, Humble Poirot. I'm going to listen to what you have to say. What's the big picture, please? Because all I see is a player that was wrong about scum from start to end, went from a tunnel vision on me to a tunnel vision on havingfitz, tried to lead the town to lynch town players, and never offered a helpful suggestion.

I took into account that you would drive this game into a complete loss with your inability to differentiate frustrated town to scum appearing helpful. Of course, the scum will appear helpful to you, they are trying to manipulate you. You always think that scum are trolling you, and you are wrong about that.

Let's recap:

-You and EPM should not have pushed a bad case on me
-I should not have OMGUS'd on you
-You and EPM should not have had tunnel vision, not allowing any other lynch to be on the table Day 1
-I should not have claimed mason
-EPM and Fusion should not have claimed under no pressure
-Town should not have lynched me after I claimed mason
-Town should not have lynched me after Elyse claimed mason with me
-Elyse should have been lynched right away for lying
-HP and Havingfitz should not have had tunnel vision on each other

Events escalated quickly beyond any one player's control, and a series of mistakes were made by the town players.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You were very sure that I was scum at the beginning of Day 1 because you're bad at reading scum. Period.

[Zachrulez]

I followed along with this game and the thing that amazed me most was that the town proceeded to lynch ABR despite his mason claim. I could not believe that actually happened. (Regardless of the fact that he actually flipped vanilla.)

Because the claim was a lie. There was a lot of evidence indicating that it was a lie. It was not horribly anti-town but also a BAD fake claim.

I never would have lynched him after he claimed mason regardless of what other roles were claimed and how little sense it made from a setup spec perspective or whatever evidence was against it on day 1. The probability of scum coming out with a mason claim to stop their own lynch was near zero. (It wasn't zero but it was pretty close.)

Mason claims are one of those claims that are generally made only by pro-town players. They are very dangerous for scum to fake claim. So you're basically in a situation where him fake claiming as town is more likely than fake claiming mason as scum.

If I was actually playing the game as town on day 1, I would have actually been very angry about ABR's wagon continuing to build post claim.

[aphix]

I agree the PR shouldn't have outted themselves. Honestly if they didn't agree with the claim which honestly it felt like a very bad claim. They should have just pushed the wagon without outing themselves.

@imp: I agree you needed to shoot someone else. I was such an obvious target. There had to be a reason I choose that moment to dance around flaunting I'm scum.

Also at town. When you have a confirmed not scum player Vla(implosion). Why would you not unvote? You know you can't lynch scum without him. You were leaving people at l-2 with two scum open. Elyse wanted to vote HF and have me hammer but it think that would have had someone mention that she should be shot. So she voted Hp and we waited for a third vote.

ABR you've already admitted that frustrations from other games led to frustrations here. It would have been a good idea perhaps for you to take a break then throw a tantrum in game. Which is what you did. Yes there was a lot of bad plays but a lot of it was on the back of you being upset that people can't read you as town. It happens. Let's all just move on last that. Otherwise it might just cause issues in future games.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I never would have lynched him after he claimed mason regardless of what other roles were claimed and how little sense it made from a setup spec perspective or whatever evidence was against it on day 1. The probability of scum coming out with a mason claim to stop their own lynch was near zero. (It wasn't zero but it was pretty close.)

This is actually it, though, there were no other roles outted! It made no sense to keep your vote on me after that.

[Albert B. Rampage]

ABR you've already admitted that frustrations from other games led to frustrations here. It would have been a good idea perhaps for you to take a break then throw a tantrum in game. Which is what you did. Yes there was a lot of bad plays but a lot of it was on the back of you being upset that people can't read you as town. It happens. Let's all just move on last that. Otherwise it might just cause issues in future games.

I'm not taking a break. I have to move past a plateau.

It was infuriating to get lynched in so many games in such quick succession that I took it out on this game. Even so, I did it with a plan that in my mind would help the town. Lynching HP was going to be a good move for this game even though he wasn't scum, since he was leading the town to lynch all the town players.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If HP was lynched without me having to claim anything, I would have protected/sheeped evil until he gave us some results, which would have then helped me deduce the scum. On day 1, I was wholly unprepared to scumhunt and I knew for a fact that there was no readily apparent scum on that day. I was then outraged at getting votes.

[Humble Poirot]

You were very sure that I was scum at the beginning of Day 1 because you're bad at reading scum. Period.

Except you agreed with me:

I tried my best to look scummy enough to avoid a nightkill, take as little of the center stage as possible to avoid getting lynched, and try to misdirect the scum into thinking I'm a vanilla townie. It didn't work, and this makes me feel HORRIBLE. I'm bad. But I'm not going to let how bad I am drag this whole town down with your bald-faced lies.

Most of us stop lying when the game is over but not you.

I'm not really interested in arguing with you. I'm just exposing the farce that you are and the lies that you spread post game to try and look good. I thought you were a bad player before (But I can deal with those) but I've now confirmed you're a complete liability (due to your massive ego) unless you get your way, ready to sabotage the game and ruin everyone's experience.

@Zach: You had to be there. Many times, we almost unvoted but every time, something happened (new PR claims, new bs about MORE unclaimed masons and more bs activity from ABR). WCS we lynched the liability that ABR was.

If you want to argue about it, you'll have to read context and dispute the points that were made at the time (look at implosion, even, who shared your concerns).

[Zachrulez]

@Zach: You had to be there. Many times, we almost unvoted but every time, something happened (new PR claims, new bs about MORE unclaimed masons and more bs activity from ABR). WCS we lynched the liability that ABR was.

If you want to argue about it, you'll have to read context and dispute the points that were made at the time (look at implosion, even, who shared your concerns).

I was there... kinda. I was following along as it happened. I am aware of all the things that happened. I still wouldn't have lynched him. The players that outed themselves arguing that his role didn't make sense in the setup weren't looking at it from the most simplistic point of view, which is why would anyone fakeclaim mason as scum? Generally they wouldn't, as backing up the claim requires putting another member of the scumteam at risk which risks a catastrophic loss to the scumteam. As scum there are many more roles that are useful in prolonging your life in the game that don't entail the kinds of risks that fakeclaiming mason does.

[Albert B. Rampage]

HP, you were a much larger liability than anyone else in this game. The proof is that I was gone after Day 1: and you never recovered. You continued to blame everything on me because you couldn't read the scum.

Please spare me your platitudes.

I'm not naturally arrogant; I was frustrated due to a series of games and you and evil's attitude. Ask anyone on mafiascum that has actually met me outside of the internet. I think you should give some thought on how you come across before calling me a "farce". Btw I disagree with you. Thanks.

[Humble Poirot]

the most simplistic point of view, which is why would anyone fakeclaim mason as scum?

Why would anyone fakeclaim mason partner? The most simplistic point of view is that Elyse is town and she though ABR was town too... oh wait... She wasn't.

Hindsight is easy and not lynching a claimed PR is also an easy decision. I stand by my decision and it's worth noting that the alternative lynch, ETL, was not pushed by ABR. No, he wanted me or fusion lynched out of OMGUSy spite (even after Fusion claimed Jailkeeper).

ABR: Except I was eons closer than you at guessing or suspecting the scumteam but I'm aware details of fact are not your strong point.

[Humble Poirot]

As poor as my play was this game, this will always be an interesting memory:
Last but not least.

Public service announcement: No rude behavior please. No lying about your role. No claims before L-2.

Hell no, I won't self-hammer. I'm a mason.

Now move your votes on to HP so we can lynch scum. Yeah?

You guys are ridiculously bad at this game.

Lynch HP.
Lynch Fusion.

Then you win.

Joke's on you, I'm vanilla town.

(spoilered)I FAKECLAIMED MASON BECAUSE I HATE YOU EVIL. I KNOW YOU ARE TOWN, I KNEW THE ENTIRE TIME YOU WERE TOWN AND I SAID SO, BUT I LITERALLY HATE YOU. YOU DESERVE TO BE OUTTED, YOU VILLAGE IDIOT. I'M HAPPY THAT YOU OUTTED YOURSELF AND ARE GOING TO GET KILLED TONIGHT BECAUSE I HATE YOU AND YOU DON'T DESERVE TO BE ALIVE WITH YOUR TERRIBLE READS AND TERRIBLE TUNNELVISION ON ME. THIS ENTIRE GAME YOU HAVE BEEN HP'S LITTLE ERRAND BOY.

P.S.: I have no idea why Elyse thought it was a good idea to follow my fakeclaim.(/spoilered)

Fusion probably scum JK. HP is scum. Get them both.

Last time, I was honest and claimed VT, I got lynched right away. This game, I tried a different approach. The one thing that stays the same is that there's an idiot town with tunnelvision on me every game, trying to lynch me day 1 when I hand the town the scum on a silver platter.

Lynch Fusion, HP and Gorckat. It's over.

I don't usually lie about my role, but it made me so happy to shove this down your throat. It made me ecstatic. I couldn't be any happier right now. Thank you for this moment of vindication, evil, thank you.

You were freaking terrible to me, so I fakeclaimed mason as a vanilla townie because I HATE YOU. Get it through your skull.

Man... I don't know why I was even bothering explaining when I can just pull up one of your quotes to easily expose you.

You're your own worst enemy.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You guys should stop now.

[Humble Poirot]

Don't worry, I'm done. I'll try to read the qts and comment on other stuff later.

There IS a real issue that touched both you and ABR that I'm interested on talking about. Even havingfitz and IIRC Elyse were guilty of it.

It involves a pretense of being obvious town and "seeming angry" when others don't see it and even employing fallacious proofs with self-meta.

The sense of entitlement to be read town is damaging and can easily be faked by scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I was angry because I know that Elyse knows how to read me, how to talk with me, how to work with me, but she seemed to be misreading me on purpose, and she was.

It had nothing to do with anyone else. It has everything to do with my meta experience with her.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

She was the only one I was angry with because, from my perspective, if she was town, she should have known better. (And she would have).

[EspeciallyTheLies]

The fact that she was not putting any effort into working through things with me told me something was wrong.