Disney Princess - sangres/Nazarene

[Nazarene]

He doesn't seem very offput, actually.

Just a thought: maybe rach was killed because scum thought they were the neighbouriser? Your strong townread on her while she hadn't done too much might have contributed towards that thought.

And what are your bases for the kat read? Poe again?

[sangres]

Some of it is PoE.

Katsuki's buddying of Nacho has a kind of a scum feel to it.

This is a scum Katsuki game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=32268

look at his interactions with Kuribo, whom he buddied.

This is a game where town-Katsuki reacts to being pressured by scum-Nachobert: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=34161

Compare that to the milquetoast reaction since day 3 started.

And look at his voting behaviors toward the end of day 2. He was willing to vote Cabd as a compromise, not Maya.

And look at Maya's pseudoreads list and her comments about katsuki. I said at the time that the katsuki read felt manufactured.

[sangres]

Re Rach neighborizer, maybe they thought I was misdirecting with my comments about null-reading my neighborizer and refusing to reveal/attack?

[Nazarene]

That second link is wrong, I think. Anyway, I'm not much into other peoples' meta research's conclusions, but you seem to have good reasons to suspect kat too.
Where's our lovely kat vote?

And I don't understand your comment about the Rack kill?

[sangres]

yeah wrong ace attorney game. It was this one: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39517

Yeah I know you don't accept meta conclusions, which is why I'm dumping the whole game on you with pointers on what to look for.

[Nazarene]

How did you know I don't like meta I'm unfamiliar with?

[sangres]

You suggested that Rach might have been killed thinking she was our neighbor.

When I outed being neighborized, I made it clear I wasn't townreading the neighbor. Maya pushed me a little to go on the attack and I declined.

So, scum would have to think I was fabricating problems in the neighborhood in order to think Rach was our neighbor because we had a steadfast town read from the start of the game.

[sangres]

How did you know I don't like meta I'm unfamiliar with?

You've both reacted negatively to meta arguments in this game and in prior games. Aegor seems more meta-averse than you do, and I know that you at least pretended to use meta to townread Nacho in the Mistakes uPick game.

[sangres]

heh.

meta-informed town-Tier model, basically, and it's at least moderately predictive.

[Nazarene]

Hmm yeah, that explanation for the Rach kill doesn't make much sense. welp.NKA isn't that great anyway.

And LOL if you see me using cold meta beware :p

I'm not necessarily against meta, but I know that people very often look for the wrong things in meta and if I'm not able to verify if the conclusion that's been reached is a correct one, I prefer to just leave the research. If people talk about games I've played in or players I have played with, I have little problem with meta.

P-edit: what?

[sangres]

It was an assumption based mostly on experiential meta from playing mafia with you.

I've jargonized some of my mafia theory and methods. "model" - http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... fArt#Model

I was essentially using a composite and somewhat generic model in trying to figure out scum-Maya's likely behaviors in our Night 2 discussions.

[Nazarene]

Interesting!

I find that I myself use this modeling, but that my sample sizes are a bit too small, oftentimes.

And about trajectory, I never really knew what you meant with it. I don't often use it as town to hunt for scum, only when something seems waaay off. I find that other people often reach conclusions in a very different manner than I do. As scum, it's the thing I pay most attention to and it's what nets me the most townreads when I do it correctly, I think. A question for you, have you ever seen something in my scumgame that you would classify as bad trajectory? Disregard newbie 1471 please, I sucked monkey balls there.

We could also continue this convo out of this thread if anyone minds the clutter?

[Nazarene]

Oh hey, that might have been why aegor was pressuring him! I don't think so tho.

Why was he pressuring Zar?

Fully caught up in this thread, but this head is clearly the least gregarious person in the room.

I would rather not have the in-game thread stall too much; this Head will post once Cabd produces interesting info in the hydra's other neighborhood. Nothing that substantial, but enough to generate content and to probe Kat.

And on the meta argument: this Head accepts it in very specific circumstances. For example, the meta argument for Rach-town convinced me (although according to you, sangres, for the wrong reasons). But unless it is something immediately obvious and consistent across games, this Head is extremely wary of it.

-A

[sangres]

Interesting!

I find that I myself use this modeling, but that my sample sizes are a bit too small, oftentimes.

And about trajectory, I never really knew what you meant with it. I don't often use it as town to hunt for scum, only when something seems waaay off. I find that other people often reach conclusions in a very different manner than I do. As scum, it's the thing I pay most attention to and it's what nets me the most townreads when I do it correctly, I think. A question for you, have you ever seen something in my scumgame that you would classify as bad trajectory? Disregard newbie 1471 please, I sucked monkey balls there.

We could also continue this convo out of this thread if anyone minds the clutter?

I'd kinda like to continue it after the game or during my next bout of insomnia, whichever comes first. My mafia bandwidth is getting chewed up atm.

[Nazarene]

Imma hold you to that!

[Nazarene]

Problem I'm having with katsukiscum is that she isn't a newbie who's very bad at the game...how would she forget to interact with her buddy? All her explantions make sense and her role even tho a bit nasty (even night?) seems reasonable enough with JK and neighbouriser and something like scum RB or rolecop,..

And zar freaks me the fuck out with his read on kat

It all just feels too easy and zar is opportunistic.

Hmm

[Nazarene]

Fuck I'm even considering Zar telling maya to make that typo on purpose

I think Zar is a great player even tho I've only played with him once before.

[Nazarene]

Kat just feels too helpless to be scum

Fuck me right

[sangres]

I'm not sure what to think either. God I hate being such a wimp about reading Kat, but I have a truly abysmal record of scumreading him and mislynching him, and he's not very good at reading me either. His digs at me feels townish. Given he's having to interact with me, I wonder if he'd risk potentially antagonizing me.

Cabd mentioned expecting a tracker after he saw N's flip. :/

[Nazarene]

Let's put pressure on zar?

Pls?

And how is kat's scumgame, do you see hercignoring her buddies like that?

[sangres]

I haven't played with scum-Kat, ever. The thing that I've been told is emblematic of his scumplay is that he's fantastic at predicting where town will go and getting there too - often ahead of town.

[sangres]

Cabd and I need to sort each other out again, I think, before we figure out where to go next.

It's fucking hilarious that his paranoia exceeds mine for once. But also annoying.

[Nazarene]

Well, hi paranoiaville.

I'm gonna sync with Aegor but I think it's Zar and that snow fucked up for him...
Ever played with snowstorm before?

[sangres]

Once. I replaced into a large normal he was in on the final day of the game. The gunsmith had an inno on him, but I also was townreading him based on his ISO and on known scum ISOs.

I may have another look at that game when things calm down a little.

[sangres]

What is Cabd's Zar read?

It's driving me nuts that I have to be careful not to show too much of my hand about who I'm townreading and who I'm not, to keep at least a shred of question about whether you're the neighborizer.