Mini 79 - SoT: Wizard's First Rule - GAME OVER

[Flying Dutchman]

I was about to post Foolster HAD to be evil, because otherwise scum would've lynched him already.


I have to avoid taking my secret with me into the grave tonight, so I make sure both Tam and I will both know my secret!

Tam: tonight gin will be forced to do the same as you were ordered night 2. Make sure to use it if I die.

Well, now someone can cast the deciding vote, as Tam and I both have to die to avoid this.

[willows_weep]

aahhh to do avoid what???
if you are good does that make mel and foolster ungood?

What is gin going to be doing?? What did tam do???
Use something??...how do you know about these orders if you hadn't had one.
How are you sure you are going to die?

blahhhh

[gin]

I am Denna, Mord-sith. I am a cop. Using my Agiel, I interrogate somebody until they confess. I get either good or evil. If you can't guess, I found Foolster evil. The purpose of simply accusing him without roleclaiming was to see who would support him -- and therefore who the other remaining scum is.

willows_weep, you are the single person not voting. Vote for Foolster41. I feel that the whole situation is pretty clear. If I turn out to be wrong about Foolster, you can be absolutely sure I'm scum tomorrow . If you vote for me, the town is pretty screwed, but there's a small chance you'll pull it out.

Make the right choice.

Well, I don't see why willow's weep has to make the choice - I am quite happy to place this vote given your information.

However! We have had 2 cop type roles, one anti and one pro town. But I'm not so worried by this - the roles have been very specific and not as useful as a full cop...

I also want to know what I am going to do tonight, but that would give away tam's role so I won't. Does this mean tam was ordered to do something? I'm assuming Dutchman will die for some reason tonight? Mafia? Role-mechanics? Hmm, it is worth keeping in day to get this info I think...

unvote Mondargo

I'm not going to place that last vote on as I want more info, but I'm willing to tomorrow morning if necessary. If someone else feels like placing that lynch when we have some info, please feel free to have a goo...

[Tam]

FD- Can you think of any good reason not to post what you'll do exactly? What if we both die? Then they still won't know what to look for.
And if we tell them now, it's out there, we can still do that to Gin, and he can't get around it. I know, cause I questioned the mod about what exactly it entailed. (was going to post a list, but you can't)

willows_weep--I am not sure who Zed is, or why you think I am them. I am not Zed, but your last post tells me that you've already picked up a little of what FD and I know, you just haven't thought it through yet. All I know -for sure- is that I am innocent and FD is. And he knows I am as well. (I'm still taking in modargo's roleclaim.)

Also, ummm, it's 2:15 here, not sure when 6 is there, but please wait for the final vote until FD answers this, as it could very well make the game. (sorry, FD, can't think it all out right now, I'm at work, but I don't see any reason why we don't say it straight out. Tell me if I'm being dense)

[willows_weep]

ok tam.

i neeed to re read this thread now...

[Tam]

Please do. It might surprise you.

[modargo]

See, willows_weep, it's simple. I started a bandwagon that had very little basis. That is the type of bandwagon that can be realistically fought. Faced with a bandwagon like that, the targeted scum and their partner generally do not split sides. Since they can claim that they didn't agree with it because it was baseless, they will almost always support each other, and try to get a bandwagon against somebody else.

Tam joining the bandwagon

does

confirm a lot. Imagine. Think what would have happened if Tam simply said, "Well, I'm still suspicious of modargo. I mean, he made a mostly baseless bandwagon, and I don't find Foolster very suspicious. vote modargo." Nothing that could be pegged as scummy there. And that

is

what scum would have done in this situation. Thus, I consider Tam and Flying Dutchman almost certainly innocent. I consider willows_weep almost as confirmed, because he/she/it (:P) could have also joined the anti-me bandwagon with a similar explanation, but did not.

If you want an explanation for my night picks, I chose FD because I recognized him more than anyone else in the game. I chose willows_weep essentially randomly, I did not feel there was much to go on after day 1. I chose Foolster41 because he seemed incredibly scummy.

I believe that everything will be fine if we lynch both melchizedek and gin because I'm fairly certain that one of them is the last scum. If I die tonight, don't let either of them escape the pressure. gin has been contributing very, very little prior to now and joined the bandwagon against me. melchizedek has been slightly more active, but also joined the bandwagon agsint me, and also did not join the UT bandwagon at a meaningful point. He only voted for UT after his obviously scummy roleclaim, when there was no chance of UT not getting lynched.

Actually, in my opinion, both melchizedek and gin should roleclaim right now. That way they have to commit to a role right now, and have less wiggle room for fake roleclaims. And they should roleclaim

before

anyone else does.

Tam: It's my feeling right now that it's to the towns advantage to have as much information as possible. I almost favor a mass roleclaim, even. Regardless, I do favor FD saying exactly what gin will be forced to do, and you explaining as much as you can about your experience with it.

So, nobody cast the final vote for Foolster yet. We do need to get more information today before going into night.

[willows_weep]

ickers...the only two who were really connected were kahlan and zed.

hm are you all passing around bones? night stones?

is FD richards father??
is FD kahlan and did kahlan perform confessors duties on someone????
did tam lose her kingdom? was she forced to not use fire??

ok...who had secrets:
zed- richard is his grandson;is rahls son
kahlan- to tell richard she is confessor
richard-the book of counted shadows
rachel-last book of orden

oh...the wolf? hmm...confessed to kahlan, wanted to not tell people he helped out children. hmm that would explain why FD would care about tams role...
but not about what the order is...

the other sorceress??

hmm now that i look back...FD was the first to point out weirdness about UT. and then tam followed. In the end melchiziedek placed the last vote...but it was the LAST one...mel had also posted about not having enough to go on to believe anything was scummy about UT post.
(grrr I had noticed and mentioned those things before but why didn't it sound a higher alarm?)

I was thinking about the other sorceress because if you KNOW youre going to die then you would have a prophecy...oh her name is Shita. hmm....
but if it is about prophecies then neither of you are Zed. he just thinks about them...and looks to see how they develop...

hmm what about the artist.the dude with one full arm he drew bad things and they came true....

wait..if tam has to die then what is the point of her knowing a secret??

hmm if FD is kahlan...then tam could have been to the confessor ...and since richard couldnt get the secret then fd would be dying without telling a secret...and then fd would be tied to tam well tam to fd...and kahlan is always so gun ho to die...

only kahlan can confirm innocence. that is pretty much what the first part of the book of counted shadows said. with the use of a confessor you can tell if the knowledge of the book is true.(which also means that it must have been prophezied that the book would be in richards head isnt that awesome how the author did that???..)

well giller knew he was going to die...he would want kahlan to know the secret of where the box was...

oh crimeny!!!
everything about the book is flowing around in my brain!!! its fun but i dont know if anyone is going to be annoyed by my long thinking posts...
but well...i am hungry and hot and im going to go on reading my radclyffe hall book and think more about SOT later...
btw I found the second book in my school library.

[Tam]

Good point, modargo. OK, I'm going to go ahead and tell all, since the scum could just throw the last vote on before this comes out. This will spoil two more characters (3 really, since i know there has to be a 1st wizard from my role) but I think when you see what FD's forcing Gin to do, it'll not matter much. I'm sure we have our baddies out in the open now. (I also am pretty positive about modargo's roleclaim, as he didn't screw up and claim either of the two people that i know to be innocent were guilty.)

I am the backup for the First Wizard, and my name is Wizard Giller. As of right now, I have no abilities. But it says that I am very good with magic, not as good as the 1st wiz, but it may come in handy later.
On that night I received a note saying that The Mother Confessor got to me, and is forcing me to post my rolename in my very first post on that day, else i'll die on the spot. I originally was going to list what characters I could find off Google, but the mod said i had to say that i was the wizard giller in the post, so i crunched it in as sneakily as i could.
Then FD told me in a post not soon after that he'd done that, and I had already asked the mod if the Mother Confessor was a good or bad role, and the mod said good...so, i know for sure that he is a good guy, and that is what he plans to do to Gin tonight. I suggest any doctor we may have left protects FD tonight, as Gin will be forced to claim the truth tomorrow.

[Tam]

Hehe, I just saw your post after putting mine in, willows.
Just so you know, the main reason I have been following FD's vote when I wasn't sure who to vote for was because by default, he was the only one i

knew

wasn't mafia, and therefore the only one i could trust to have a straight opinion...so, when in doubt, I followed his lead. (I also wondered a few times if he was able to do this more, or just the once, as it would have been nice to know that each morning i could also see when someone had to claim-hence my question at the end that unfortunately didn't blend in with my post near as well as Fd's did to me.

(Nice job, btw, FD--

I

almost didn't see it.)

Any other questions I will try to answer when I get home in about 2 hours or so.

[willows_weep]

omg!!!!! I knew that!!! Blimey (oh and the first line of my first post was to be giller not zed because giller was kahlans premier wizard appt.)
I soooo wondered about why you would mention giller if you hadnt read the book already and you had said you didnt know much about it
at least I got kahlan right...eventually.

ok now i am happy. And still hungry....
Dude..I could so hug you tam!!!

But I wont...I don't invade personal space etc.

heee heee mod rocks!!
(eewwww I am sickening right now...no one should be this happy/giggly/enthused about this stuff...should they???)

[modargo]

Warning. The mafia godfather is likely the only scum left after Foolster. I doubt I'll be able to find him with my investigations, and if we're unlucky he might also have the ability to fake in response to FD's ability. That is, he may be allowed to just post any rolename he wants if FD targets him. I don't recall Lord Rahl having any immunity to Confessors, but the general mechanic of being immune to investigation as a godfather may overrule the flavor of the source material.

Nevertheless, with Tam's role revelation, I think we have this locked down for a different reason. With the gaurenteed innocent roles revealed, we have an absolute majority of the town.

Tam, as the Wizard Giller, can confirm the First Wizard. Tam can also confirm FD as the Mother Confessor. That's three roles

known

to be protown, plus me is four. With seven people left, the town has three lynches left to do (assuming only one person dies each night, which I have no reason to think will change). Thus, the unverified people can simply be lynched one by one.

For this to work, the First Wizard should reveal himself. And taa-daa, our four protown roles!

Frankly, I trust other people's abilities and notes and actions more than my investigations for determining innocence. There is always the danger of me getting a false negative -- i.e., getting the godfather as innocent, which is why I have been emphasizing

actions

over

investigations

in terms of who I think is innocent.

[willows_weep]

Sorry I hadn't seen Modargos post to me at 3:46. which is weird because I had been reading the thread over and over till around 420something.

But wait...from reading modargos most recent post ...
fd-kahlan
tam-giller
mod-deena

Then there is W_W, Gin, foolster, mel.

How many scum is there supposed to be left???

Something is odd ....

You suspect Mel and Gin?
Hmm...if after tonight Gin is forced to confess then his role would be confirm as whatever
and if kahlan uses that power then can you mod use yours on mel?
but if what you say about there being godfather "powers" is true then there isn't a role that can find who the godfather is anyway???
Hopefully thats not true. How many scum is supposed to be left anyway? Does there have to be a godfather role?

hmm... Tam? Did the mod or anyone else say that the 1st wizard was here? Or just that you are 2nd wizard? Because that is what Giller is...there is this whole 1st 2nd and 3rd. Most wizards are 3rd.
Oh and btw Zed is the 1wizard. I can tell you aaaaalllll about Zed sometime (well everything in the first book anyway. Give me till march to tell about the 2nd. I have put the second one on the back burner to read radclyffe and pay attention to homework and new clubs. I will be reading it maybe on sundays only...)

[Foolster41]

Sorry it took so long to reply, my new job.

Willow_weep: The comment was mearly a caution that it's easy to get burned if you trying outguessing the mod. It's happened to me once before. Specificly, I was commenting on the fact that Gnome said he had no name and no one beleived it, which I was actually right about (admitted by the mod later.) So this is really a non-argument.

Modargo: Sorry about mispeling your name. No offence ment, I'm just really bad at spelling.

Why are you automaticly beleiving modargo's claim? Espeicial after UT got lynched as a mafia and claimed mor'sith? I find it hard to beleive that Denna would be good. (Though, I should follow my own advice about outguessing, I suppose).

I think it's very ironic that you think UT's claim was "obvously scummy" and yet, you and UT are from basicly the same "clan" (Denna was no traitor the Mor'sith either) that looks very evil to me. (Come on, horrible torture, in love or not Denna was at least a twisted charecter. (SK?)
Your logic makes no snese. This looks like a bad last ditch ploy not much better than UTs. I hope I don't sound pushy, but this day has gone on quite long, and this seems like pretty damning evidence.

BIG FOS: Modargo

[gin]

Well, I'll claim if that's what you're all in favour of. I'm birdman, leader of the mudpeople. I'm a mason, but I won't say who with unless really forced or unless they choose to say (I'm leaving it up to them as it may put them at more risk). However it's not with melchizedek.

I voted for you Modargo as I felt your actions were suspicious, though I couldn't place why. I think the beginning of this game really suffered over christmas, unfortunately :/. What bothers me is the way people are taking all what you said as gospel, and the way you're assuming scum will do something one way. If they're good at being scum they'll act like you expect townies to act, throwing that reasoning to pot. You also seem to be directing the action, which is a little worrying.

Lynching Foolster will definitely give us more info at less risk of lynching our cop. If Foolster turns out to be innocent then we should lynch modargo - simple.

Unless anyone else has something else to say, I'm happy to place the last vote.

G & T

[Kerplunk]

Vote Count

Foolster41

: 3 (Tam, modargo, Flying Dutchman)

modargo

: 2 (Foolster41, melchizedek)

not voting: willows_weep, gin

It's still 4 to lynch.

[Tam]

Hmmm, I am only believing modargo because, as i said, he's only named people guilty that i am not sure of. I think for him to be scum and not pick either of us, in our own rights a sort of mason group, would be good luck on his part. The only thing that worries me is how dramatic the whole thing was with his roleclaim...it just seems almost too perfect. But, at this point, I believe him.

I'm birdman, leader of the mudpeople.

*stifles a giggle* Heh, I'm sure that would make a whole lot more sense if I'd have read the books.
Anyone with book experience want to give some insight on this one?

[willows_weep]

Why of course Tam.

Birdman is the leader of the mudpeople. He is a lightweight passed middle aged man. There are the "leaders" of the clan but those leaders actually come to him and he directs them. He is called bird man appropriately. He has these awesome whistles and when he blows into them though no other man can hear it the bird/s of his choice flock to him. He can call any one of them. He is responsible for Richard and Kahlan being able to become Mudpeople. He also gave Richard his whistle. When Birdman was trying to teach him Richard failed at bring 1 single bird, which was the point of the lesson. Either way Birdman gave it to him so he can remember that even though Richard himself is so great a man that he cannot attain a skill that even the mudpeople children can do.
But this lack of skill does help Richard out. For instance when he is trying to get Scarlets egg from the Gars. He blows onto the whistle numerous times and with strenght. Then the sky fills with birds. The Gars use flies to help them in the hunt. These are short tailed Gars. They know how many flies they own. If one comes up missing then they will go find where the fly died. So with the appearance of the birds the short tailed Gars are confused. He gets the egg.
Birdman is also helpful to Kahlan. While she is there she gets counsel from him. Even though it is the kind of fatherly counsel were you aren't really told anything new, you always get what you've known all along but felt not to word it.

Now the mudd people are a people that live away from the other members of the Midlands. They have their own ways and rarely deal with outsiders. They never fall under the control of Rahl. There is an instance when they are brutally attacked though. The mudpeople first welcomed Kahlan and because well...she is Mother Confessor. They welcomed Richard because he showed great respect for Savidlin*. The way to show respect with the mud people is to slap/punch/hit them. Sometimes it should be with strenght and others as if a playful tap. You only do this when time asks. They thought Richard was a spirit who sent them the rains. They eventually dropped the spirit thing. But either way all is well. The mud people eventually welcomed Kahlan and Richard and called a "gathering"* of the spirits for them. This is how Richard and Kahlan learned of the fact that Shota knew where they could find the last box of Orden.

Now for an aside in one of the huts of the mudpeople after the spiritual gathering Richard and Kahlan almost get seriously intimate. This thankfully didn't happen at this time. When confessors are in the throes of passion they lose control over their power. When touched by a Confessors power you lose your self. You become totally the Confessors. So then there isn't any option of free will. No question of do I love this woman. You absolutely do with all of what you have.
This leads to a cool tide turn at the end of the book.

*= maybe incorrect spelling or incorrect full term.


WOOOOT
Don't you love reading?

[modargo]

Yes, gin, reveal your mason now. Unless there's something weird, you already did, anyway. Given that I've claimed, Foolster has claimed, Tam has claimed, Flying Dutchman's role has been revealed by Tam, and melchizedek is not it, you must be a mason with willows_weep.

Unless, of course, you plan on claiming mason with a dead role or I've completely missed something. The only other possibility I could see is that FD's role has two parts. Since FD himself has not actually claimed his role, he could have both the Mother Confessor part and the mason with you part.

I'd really like you to say who your mason partner is. Either it will confirm you and your partner, or it will make it clear that you're scum.

Also, willows_weep, I think it would be best if you revealed your role.

[Flying Dutchman]

OK, Tam, I wasn't sure you got my message on day 2, glad you got it

A full roleclaim from me:
I'm the Mother Confessor.
I have 3 options to chose from:
1. I can roleblock someone at night.
2. I can make a player vote for another playing of my choice
3. I can force a player to reveal his true role in his first post the next day.

If I use one of these powers, I can't do anything the next night, I have to rest.

Option 2 seemed irrelevant, at least till end-game, and a once-every-two-days-roleblocker isn't that good either.

I think my power lies in the third option. I asked the mod about it, and players HAVE to claim their true role, although they can fake alignment and abilities if they want to.

Night 1 I chosed no-one, as I had no information on behaviour of people at all.
Night 2 I chosed to let Tam roleclaim, because I thought she acted kinda suspicious on day 1. I can confirm she is Wizard Giller, although I haven't read the books and she still can be evil, I don't know.
Night 3 I had no choice.
Tonight I will force someone to claim, and I think it will be Melchizedek as things stand now.

I'm a mason, but I won't say who with unless really forced or unless

they

choose to say (I'm leaving it up to

them

as it may put them at more risk).

(Bolding mine)

Given that I've claimed, Foolster has claimed, Tam has claimed, Flying Dutchman's role has been revealed by Tam, and melchizedek is not it, you must be a mason with willows_weep.

I am not a mason or anything like that, I think the theory of Modargo is correct, so
willows_weep is the only possible partner, but you claim to have multiple!!!

I want to lynch Foolster today, and if we have a vig or anything in the game I'd like to see gin dead tomorrow, and I think we have a good chance to win that way.......


Also, I want Melchizedek to roleclaim today, because I won't have to waste tonight if his roleclaim is easy confirmable or almost certainly in the game.

[willows_weep]

Well when I am talking about someone and I don't want to use gendered pronouns I use the words they and them etc. Not nesacarily using it for the purpose of plural.Also if you were in a room with two people...and 2 of those appeared female and 1 appeared male, if you were not trying to out the one who appeared male would you use a male gendered pronoun or make it easier to pinpoint in any other way?

Yes, I am in a mason with gin.
I am Savidlin. Birdman is the LEADER of the mudpeople. I am what I guess you can call second to the leader.I say I guess because its a council that I am a part of. And the leader is Birdman. But in a council is one supposed to be over the others? And then again in the book I had more control than the others of the council of elders.

It is odd that you have to wait a night to rest. Kahlan is the strongest Confessor there has been in hundreds of years. While other confessors take a day or two Kahlan needs only a few hours, maybe 2. But Its not odd when you think of the different ways mafia roles work.

Giller isn't evil. Well he isn't supposed to be anyway. He had left his service to Kahlan and worked for the Queen but It may seem he may have done so because the last box of orden was there.

[modargo]

I'd like melchizedek to claim now. I have a pretty good idea of what role he has, but nevertheless I want to hear it from him.

If I'm correct, Foolster may be the only scum left. I've been thinking that there are two scum left, because otherwise the game seems pretty in favor of the town, but I guess it could have just been one traitor, one thug, and the godfather.

So, melchizedek, please claim.

[Tam]

Just something real slight that is bugging me...
Willows_weep- Why did you not act differently when we said we meant to make gin roleclaim? In the endgame I'd have said 'nope, don't waste your ability, we're both masons'. You seem to have simply kept going, talking about this and that, until

after

Gin roleclaimed.

[willows_weep]

how do you mean act differently?
And what change after Gin roleclaimed?
The only thing I think I have done after gin role claimed is do what was asked of me.
You asked about birdman I told you. I was asked to claim so much that I complied. And I was asked after right?

[Tam]

Sorry, it's not a big deal, just seemed odd to me, that you didn't come out then, when we were saying we'd use his power to force Gin to roleclaim. If you guys are masons together, I would have expected you to up and say so at that point. You have done everything we asked, it just seemed a bit odd to me, i guess.
Anyhow, where are we now, people?