Micro 887: the coaLITion [game over]

[NC 39]

Spoiler:

Scum operating under your assumption above would likely want two scum in the coalition if they thought town would be voting outside of the coalition. In the case at hand, you advocated to remove LUV from the coalition once you learned about the timing. It was probably nothing, but it's why I think an NC-LUV pairing is possible while all the other in-coalition pairings seem unlikely. ~Espresso

Per my reasoning above, LUV is a good lynch if the coalition fails because:
1. He's within the coalition (see my earlier reasoning)
2. If he's town, I feel even better about town!NC
3. If he's scum, I feel very strongly about scum!NC (see reasoning above)

The NC connection wasn't my only reason at the time. Although I didn't cite it (and I kind of wish I did now), my scumread on LUV also informed my vote. ~Espresso

I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that it's NC/Hectic, but I don't know why I think that and I don't have time to go into it tonight.

Care to explain this?

My explanation is that I was clearly wrong about LUV.

Why are you still sr me then?

I can sr you without the need of LUV. Your defensiveness is a big one right now.

You obviously haven’t metacased me then.

Can you point me to a few town games for metacasing purposes? You're right that I haven't done this yet.

Necromancer where I nearly got mislynched in the first two hours for flipping out over RVS votes. Pretty much any game in my entire ISO. Maybe Minuet? Gameshow? Oh Vengeful Ghosts. I challenge anyone to find a game other than Shirley you jest where I roled jester and of course the RC game where I was cop cleared IC, where I didn’t react that way.

[NC 39]

So if 1 + 1, I lean Gamma/Espresso with Hectic more likely than Spangled.

If 2, then obviously Espresso/Gamma but am not sure on which.

Gamma seemed pretty townie at EoD and my suspicion on Hectic has lessened since Alchemist mislynch. I feel the best about Spangled and Espresso’s unexplained 180 on me is majorly paranoia pinging me.

I think it would greatly help if I could figure out which is which: 2 scum in coalition or 1 +1.

Because once we have a clearer idea on that, I think the game is definitely solvable.

I think I feel best about Spangled because he seems to be very natural, kind of the opposite of Espresso but that could also be a playstyle thing.

Fmpv, I don't have to worry about 2 in bcz lynching you or Gamma will result in a scum death. You shouldn't be worried about 2 in either, as from a town!NC perspective, 2 scum in the coalition results in a scum death either way.

How do you propose we solve the 1+1?

Why shouldn’t I be worried about 2 scum in coalition? There are two other players: you and Gamma and two non-coalition players. Of course I’m worried because it could also be 1 + 1. The point is I don’t want another mislynch or we lose and fmpov, I have no idea if both you and Gamma are scum or just one of you, so I don’t understand where you’re coming from with this.

I don't think lynching outside of the coalition is correct here, so I'm assuming any vote that passes today will be within the coalition.

When I said 2-in doesn't matter today, I meant that the town who is in the coalition will always be voting for scum if they vote within the coalition. So assuming scum!EP and scum!Gamma for a moment, town!NC is fine either way.

I agree with you that the discussion should focus on 1+1.

The point is, I don’t have a clue if it’s 2 in coalition or 1 + 1. I don’t know if you’re the reason coalition failed or you are woefully incapable of correctly understanding my posts. It’s almost like we’re speaking different languages. What I do know is that I am apparently not understanding you any better than you’re understanding me and this is why continuing to engage with you is so damned frustrating because I don’t think anything I’ve said is at all getting through and it’s been like this from day fucking one.

I recall gobbled saying you were the common denominator in all of these misunderstanding posts, but I'll agree that I've misinterpreted

some

of your posts. I don't see where I'm

continually

misinterpreting you, but you keep saying I am + then doing the same back to me. Regardless of your alignment, we both agree that it's frustrating.

At least if I honestly thought you were making a good faith effort, I might still try but you’re clearly not for whatever reason. You still have yet to explain how and why you suddenly apparently did this 180 on me. It’s really hard not to feel like you’re just confibiasing me.

It's honestly a mixture of gut read, my interactions with you this game, your general hesitance on giving strong reads, and your defensiveness about any scumread on you.

On the latter point, I still need to look at your meta. On the other points, I still need to look into them further and weigh them against Gamma.

Common denominator? Because she also misinterpreted my posts and so did Gamma earlier. Are you attaching some significance to this?

I reacted better to Gg because it was blatantly clear that it was completely unintentional, It wasn’t so clear with either you or Gamma.

How am I hesitating? You want a readslist? I can definitely do that, although I think like I said earlier, I've been pretty much vomiting reads since the game started.

[NC 39]

How do you propose we solve the 1+1?

If it is then I’ve already answered that. You have clearly misunderstood me. I didn’t say it has to be you and Gamma, it could just be one and one outside coalition. I am trying my damndest to figure out which.

So, if we lynch outside, I already told you I lean Hectic over Spangled in that case but that is dependent on it being a 1 + 1.

If it isn’t and Hectic or less likely Spangled, is a mislynch, then we lose. How is this not townie fyp? Isn’t it townie to consider all possibilities?

I don’t understand you at all. :/

I didn't say you thought it had to be me and Gamma.
I didn't say 1+1 is not towny.
I didn't say your Hectic>Spangled lean is not towny.

This is why you think I'm misunderstanding you... I'm not saying some of the things you think I'm saying.

Question for you so I can understand your perspective -- Are you considering +/ open to voting outside of the coalition today?

I think we should optimally lynch the objectively scummiest slot, whether they’re in coalition or not. If that can’t be clearly determined, than lynching inside coalition make more sense.

[NC 39]

am i misinterpreting this? are you saying here you know you're not scum and you don't think it's Spangled? or is there a deeper meaning behind this?

What do you think the deeper meaning would be?

i wasn't sure, that's why i asked, i just thought it a bit odd that she would say "it can't be me because i know i'm town", i mean that's evident for everyone from their perspective, so not really something i see worth bringing up

Why is it odd, considering Espresso was hard pushing me yesterday? Also, I was in failed coalition, so no I really don’t see that.

[Spangled]

Uh... Hectic... where did you previously state the idea of an EP/Spangled scumteam... and why/how did you settle on it in the end; what interactions make you think that that particular scumteam is most likely?

1055 and 1081 interactions between you two i don't like, and i just think you two are most individually scummy right now after rereading, not 100% sold on Gamma though, could be wrong
don't think i've mentioned it before

Did you read 1067, which was between and in the same exchanges etc.?

and I actually can’t understand how I’m very individually scummy from your pov, and I don’t think you’ve stated anything to back that up, besides how my ‘tone early-game was bad’. I’d love if you could, perhaps, case me...?

[Spangled]

Gonna give thoughts on stuff/do re-evals etc. later today sorry; almost all of today has been consumed by fairly distant family we haven’t seen in a long time coming over. Writing stuff though.

[NC 39]

@Spangled, who are you currently most leaning scum on?

[Hectic]

Uh... Hectic... where did you previously state the idea of an EP/Spangled scumteam... and why/how did you settle on it in the end; what interactions make you think that that particular scumteam is most likely?

1055 and 1081 interactions between you two i don't like, and i just think you two are most individually scummy right now after rereading, not 100% sold on Gamma though, could be wrong
don't think i've mentioned it before

Did you read 1067, which was between and in the same exchanges etc.?

and I actually can’t understand how I’m very individually scummy from your pov, and I don’t think you’ve stated anything to back that up, besides how my ‘tone early-game was bad’. I’d love if you could, perhaps, case me...?

honestly, i actually townlean both you and Gamma but there's two scum this game, so guessing you right now with Espresso based on the interactions i linked
kinda tired right now, tried reading that post you linked several times now, but not really taking in what it's saying, will re-examine it tomorrow
could try casing you as well, but it'll be similar to the Alchemist one where i'm just trying to look for scummy stuff rather than actually believing it, probably best i do that anyway though, and will do it on Gamma too if i have time

[Spangled]

@Spangled, who are you currently most leaning scum on?

Frick if I know.
I want to townlock you Nancy, but something is holding me back and I don’t have a clue as to what it is.
Honestly I might be coming round to properly tring Hectic but I don’t bloody know why. Maybe them going against the flow as regards me? (But honestly I don’t understand that at this point so... ??)
Somewhat similarly, I feel like I kind of

want

to scumread EP, but goodness if I know why. I don’t feel like they’ve... I don’t know, approached the game well? And some good points have been brought up about them... gotta look at those.
Gamma... kind of fades from my mind? I can’t even remember what I felt about them. Previous end of day I remember moving off them for lynching because I thought their answers etc. were towny, but everyone here has been towny; we’re losing ‘cause we lynched the scummy people, funnily enough.

But it’s all so bloody weak, all of my feelings here. In LyLo I love cases but I can never really make them myself, and this is a rough LyLo; I’ve townread all of you guys at various points, and never really scumread any of you properly. Honestly I want to find someone to sheep because I don’t know

what

to do here.
I might deadsheep, honestly, at this point, particularly Gob. I’ll go back and look.
But I’d love cases from all of you as to why your proposed scumteams etc. are likely.

[Spangled]

Could someone towncase Gamma please?
I don’t know if I see it, to be honest.
And Gob’s reasons for scum!Gamma weren’t awful. But the fact that he moved away from them is kinda telling. But then again it was onto LUV and that was town so...

[Spangled]

NC’s points against EP seem mostly to be ‘you’re misunderstanding me and pushing me’ actually, which is certainly less potent than I thought the points were. It has some merit, but not all that much. But EP’s push on NC is out of left field and I don’t understand it either.
@NC
Why is EP scum, besides him misunderstanding you?
@EP
Why is NC scum; why are you pushing them?

[Spangled]

@Gamma
Why did you prodge back in 1472? Who do you think the scumteam is at the moment?

[NC 39]

NC’s points against EP seem mostly to be ‘you’re misunderstanding me and pushing me’ actually, which is certainly less potent than I thought the points were. It has some merit, but not all that much. But EP’s push on NC is out of left field and I don’t understand it either.
@NC
Why is EP scum, besides him misunderstanding you?
@EP
Why is NC scum; why are you pushing them?

It’s not a hard read and I keep going back and forth on him. It’s more the first linking me with LUV and now that he flipped town, he is or was suddenly pushing me. He had previously pushed the me/LUV link so hard prior to that. It’s also of course, paranoia about him being the reason for coalition fail, since Gamma looked better closer to EoD (assuming only 1 scum in coalition). I’m also planning to take another look at LUV’s case on him and deciding whether he was sr playstyle or if it had any actual merit.

[NC 39]

@Spangled, who are you currently most leaning scum on?

Frick if I know.
I want to townlock you Nancy, but something is holding me back and I don’t have a clue as to what it is.
Honestly I might be coming round to properly tring Hectic but I don’t bloody know why. Maybe them going against the flow as regards me? (But honestly I don’t understand that at this point so... ??)
Somewhat similarly, I feel like I kind of

want

to scumread EP, but goodness if I know why. I don’t feel like they’ve... I don’t know, approached the game well? And some good points have been brought up about them... gotta look at those.
Gamma... kind of fades from my mind? I can’t even remember what I felt about them. Previous end of day I remember moving off them for lynching because I thought their answers etc. were towny, but everyone here has been towny; we’re losing ‘cause we lynched the scummy people, funnily enough.

But it’s all so bloody weak, all of my feelings here. In LyLo I love cases but I can never really make them myself, and this is a rough LyLo; I’ve townread all of you guys at various points, and never really scumread any of you properly. Honestly I want to find someone to sheep because I don’t know

what

to do here.
I might deadsheep, honestly, at this point, particularly Gob. I’ll go back and look.
But I’d love cases from all of you as to why your proposed scumteams etc. are likely.

Well I am in failed coalition, so I don’t think it makes sense to townlock anyone atp, especially anyone in failed coalition. I can continue to repeat ad nauseum that I’m not the reason it failed but I obviously can’t prove it.

How can you dead sheep Gg, who was he sr besides LUV near EoD? Oh you mean his POE order? *confused*

[Spangled]

@Hectic
Why didn’t you decide to “go hectic” this time around?

[NC 39]

@Hectic
Why didn’t you decide to “go hectic” this time around?

Am I missing something here? I have no idea what you’re talking about?

[NC 39]

@Gamma, who is your current strongest sr?

[NC 39]

Could someone towncase Gamma please?
I don’t know if I see it, to be honest.
And Gob’s reasons for scum!Gamma weren’t awful. But the fact that he moved away from them is kinda telling. But then again it was onto LUV and that was town so...

Well I thought LUV had more scum equity than Gamma but he’s made a few posts that townpinged me but I could also see arguments for him coasting.

This is why I was so frustrated with Espresso because I’m having real trouble seeing his push on me as making any sense whatsoever, given that he had been previously insisting that LUV townflip likely spewed me town and then there was this post by Gamma that had both LUV and Gg as scum, like he seemed so convinced about that. That sort of thing is generally more likely to come from town than scum.

I did like Espresso better yesterday, so I think we need to hear a lot more from Gamma.

[NC 39]

Town: Spangled, EP, NC 39
Nullish: Hectic

Scum: gobs, LUV

Reads off the cuff

As for what I think of "gob's whole entrance", you're gonna have cv to define that better.

This certainty on Gg, LUV, looked townie but he needs to post a lot more for me to have any real measure of confidence on this.

If I could get a strong town read on either Gamma or Espresso, it would make this so much easier, since I’m having real trouble reading Hectic.

[EspressoPatronum]

Had an intense game that just finished off-site. I'll have some time tonight or tomorrow to get back into this one.

[NC 39]

@Gamma, who is your current strongest sr?

Do we need to prod Gamma? Has he site flaked? His last post was on site was Friday afternoon.

[NC 39]

@Gamma, who is your current strongest sr?

Do we need to prod Gamma? Has he site flaked? His last post was on site was Friday afternoon.

Sorry, nm. I just checked the activity thing. Apparently he’s on V/LA until Wednesday.

[NC 39]

VC 3.01 (unchanged) Not Voting (5): EspressoPatronum, Spangled, NC 39, Hectic, Gamma Emerald With 5 players alive, it takes 3 to reach a majority. Day three ends in (expired on 2019-10-02 17:15:00).

Why does this keep happening every single week?

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Sky is it possible to prod Gamma, yes or no?

[NC 39]

@Sky is it possible to prod Gamma, yes or no?