Mini 1697 - a Re-balanced Game of Mafia - GAME OVER

[davesaz]

Thesp on Radiant, and other things I noticed while searching through that.

102 - acts a little like he suspects RC but "not interested in a lynch"
133 - not keen on RC, wouldn't mind Fire. All Alone rubs him the wrong way. Votes Sword (post or perish)
139 - RC feels genuine and is contributing
222,259 - 'happy' with various lynches
283 - the constant :hifive: is starting to look like buddying
762 - RC comes across as worse after eventi flip.

This post looks town

898 - Notes that RC says Thesp wagon is terrible
974 - Points out Alchemist, RC, Nether, Duppin that we need to move. Risky move for scum given Thesp is leading wagon.

Note: what are the votes after 974?

994 - liking RC's posts
1036 - Unvotes Persivul but willing to move back. Note: willing to lynch all alone here, which is interesting.
1072 - upset with RC for voting Not_Mafia.
1084 - wants either All Alone or me.
1087 - confirms upset with RC. Asserts both wagons (his and Not_Mafia) were on town
1090 - notes that RC dropped the "never moving off Dave" point
1158 - comment on Nether's 946 that finds that Alchemist or RC should be scum. Again with the "happy" language regarding lynches
1224 - wishes that RC hadn't outed Duppin
1284 - reply to RC appealing to Thesp to not vote Ank. Thesp doesn't seem to think Ank is town.
1422 - doesn't like RC dismissing VCA
1456 - again doesn't like RC

I'm really conflicted after this part of the review. The hifive could be buddying but it could be town trying to build good vibe.
762 looks really town. 974 is a horrible risk for scum -- in that position as lynch leader scum should aim for a no-lynch or push a specific candidate.
Has a really conflicted view on RC -- likes some things but is appalled by others.
Pushing All Alone and myself to the point of a tunnel feels like cherry picking and quite scummy.

Town should help me here by doing similar things. We can solve this if we dig in and do some work. If you take the easy way we'll probably lose.

[pistachi0n]

I would like everybody to have a chance to speak before we lynch today, aka let me just stall and see what terrible wagon the town's going to jump on next.

Do you REALLY think LYLO is any time to be quicklynching? I'm not voting for you because you're way too stupid to be scum.

[pistachi0n]

History of davesaz votes:

246 votes for Dominator, unvotes in the same post to get RVS out of his system, doesn't count.

405 votes Eventi after he didn't answer two of his questions. Also didn't like that Eventi pushed someone else for being manipulative.

832 voted Thesp because his activity was more superficial than he remembered.

1275 voted Ankamius because of the scumslip. (I agree with this one, even in retrospect. I'd actually rather Ank than Dave be lynched today.)

[Fluminator]

I do like Dave for town right now. My theory is scum are lurking this one out. Me and Ank anyway have been pretty open about probably wanting to lynch Thesp, so if he was scum, I don't see Dave putting in the effort to make a case on top of it.

[All Alone]

VOTE: pistachi0n

Scum:
davesaz
RC
Ankamius
All Alone
Thesp
Fluminator
me

Davesaz didn't do much until pressured, and then once the wagon dropped off he stopped doing stuff again. Some weird resistance to his wagon. I think he's scum. Still not going to drop a vote yet because it's LYLO and we have time.

I would like everybody to have a chance to speak before we lynch today, aka let me just stall and see what terrible wagon the town's going to jump on next.

Do you REALLY think LYLO is any time to be quicklynching? I'm not voting for you because you're way too stupid to be scum.

Pistachi0n declares RadiantCowbells her second scummiest read, and RC votes her in LyLo with no scum piling on. The lack of scum pile-on isn't necessarily proof that it's not TvT, as a three-scum quickwagon can be hard to coordinate and scum might not be willing to risk it, but it should at the very least be ringing some alarm bells - especially if she was already suspicious of him. Instead she does a 180, and confidently declares RC too stupid to be scum.

For someone this confident that she's being voted by a townie in LYLO, she's awfully nonchalant. If she's town and RC is town, then scum can win the game at any point, and that should be pants-shittingly terrifying. There should be some sort of panic, some sort of fight, some sort of whatever-the-heck-it-takes-to-not-lose-the-game out of her. But if she's scum, she can rest a lot easier. She doesn't have to worry about town quick lynching, and even if she does get lynched her buddies will still be in a good position tomorrow. This is a scum reaction.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, Pistachi0n has totally checked out of the game, not in an apathy way but more scum is close to majority so I'm just going to lurk off pressure way. You'd have to be pretty fucking dense to not realize it, especially after her view on me 180d by calling me too dumb to be tow

Ankamius is most likely the scum between the pair. I don't like how he immediately let the issue drop on D2 when I FoSed him and immediately reneged, but I also don't like how Thesp townread me for so long then the turning point was me being stubborn on lynches, which is more anti-town than scummy if it's even that.

AA is still obvtown so we're looking at Pistachi0n / Davesaz + one of Thesp/Ank, most likely Thesp just based on the way Pistachi0n is talking.

Flum, Ank, also Thesp if you're town, help us lynch Pistachi0n.

[RadiantCowbells]

I keep talking myself in circles between Ank and Thesp.

I'm not voting in those two and scum are not likely to bus today. Vote fucking obvscum today pls.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Unvote

I just realized we haven't had a doc claim. Doc needs to claim pronto so we can get another confirmed.

[RadiantCowbells]

I would like everybody to have a chance to speak before we lynch today, aka let me just stall and see what terrible wagon the town's going to jump on next.

Do you REALLY think LYLO is any time to be quicklynching? I'm not voting for you because you're way too stupid to be scum.

Oh and seriously this is a fucking scum claim. there's no two ways about it.

[Thesp]

UNVOTE: davesaz

More upcoming, working on a post right now.

(As an aside - RadiantCowbells, you probably want to use the unvote tag to help the votecounter, like this:

Code: Select all

[unvote]pistachi0n[/unvote]

It will be confused by Vote: Unvote, and will try to match "Unvote" to the nearest player name.)

[Thesp]

I wish I had the time to devote to re-reading the whole game, which I feel this deserves. At the same time, with no flips yet, I still feel aimless.

Scum are getting really frustrated, even though they have managed to lynch townies anyway.

Why do you think this?

Nether was a counter wagon to someone other than me. Does that help?

What do you mean by this? I've read over it and the context for it about 5 times, and I'm missing something in this explanation. Explain like I'm 5. (You return to this in #1466, so I'm clearly missing something.)

Having one vote in LYLO goes both ways. I'm town and the 3 scum haven't jumped on me. Because one scum is already there.

I'm not sure that the logistics of getting three scum to vote at the same time are all that easy. With 7 alive, I don't see a lack of movement on a single vote as all that interesting. (At the time, I was also willing to lose if I was wrong about you, as I didn't have any doubts about you. This changes with #1475 (read on).

762 - RC comes across as worse after eventi flip.

This post looks town

...
I'm really conflicted after this part of the review. The hifive could be buddying but it could be town trying to build good vibe.

For what it's worth, I tend to :hifive: in games. I enjoy the camradarie, and it's subtly pushing people towards things I like, which is always good for my game. I have once had to go through and find games where I do that as town because someone thought I only did that as scum. I imagine I do it regardless of alignment.

This post of yours did two things for me - it made me second-guess my read on you (as this doesn't feel like a scum-saz post, when I appear to be possibly lynchable), and it reminded me of my post #762. The Firebringer kill still seems weird to me. It makes sense from a RadiantCowbells-scum perspective. I'm also reminded of something Day 1, where I had the nagging feeling that RadiantCowbells was drawing too much attention, then deliberately retreated to the background to avoid blowback. (This was with the "RQS" attacks nonsense.) I'm leaning towards a RadiantCowbells/Ankamius/(All Alone or possibly pistachi0n but probably All Alone) team at this moment. IT's the one making the most sense from a game narrative point of view. There may be things I'm forgetting from not re-reading, but this makes sense to me. (The only thing giving me pause on this is that both RadiantCowbells and Ankamius are the only ones advocating a doc claim now, which seems odd as scum pairs, but perhaps they're appealing/buddying to Fluminator's suggestion of such. Hmm.)

---

Thesp, if you have any confidence whatsoever in my scumhunting ability, do not touch the Ankamius wagon. Help with Netherspite or push something else but don't help scum lynch town.

RadiantCowbells, yesterday you said this. Do you still feel it was scum trying to lynch town?

I just realized we haven't had a doc claim. Doc needs to claim pronto so we can get another confirmed.

There hasn't been consensus on this - only two people are advocating this. I still advise against this plan.

[Fluminator]

I don't think Radiant is trying to buddy me.
I'm still undecided on what I think about Pist and Radiant. I'll probably sort them later.

[Fluminator]

All my potential scum teams I see have you in it Thesp. If you're the doc, can you claim it? Because if I'm on the wrong track, I sort of want to know now.

[RadiantCowbells]

RadiantCowbells, yesterday you said this. Do you still feel it was scum trying to lynch town?

I don't know. I was really caught up on Netherspite scum which led me to believe that you both were town.

I'm fairly confident in my AA read which leaves me with at least one scum in the pair of you two. I'll figure it out when we get a doc claim and lynch Pistachi0n.

Note the absence of a hammer on Pistachi0n nor anyone trying to move into it.

[RadiantCowbells]

The thing about doc not claiming is by the time we've got like 2 votes on someone which is where town would think about claiming, scum will already be ready to quickhammer.

The proper play here is for doc to claim now, flat out.

[Thesp]

All my potential scum teams I see have you in it Thesp. If you're the doc, can you claim it? Because if I'm on the wrong track, I sort of want to know now.

You're the third person to call for it, and I don't want the day to turn into "should the doc claim or not?".

I am indeed the doc. My protects were [All Alone, duppin, St Constantine the Hermit] in that order. I didn't want to argue with Ankamius about the doc claim because yes, the correct play for scum being run up would be to doc claim, but I'm not convinced they necessarily would, and I sure wasn't going to tell them that. I'm still not convinced this was the right call, but whatever. Blergh.

RadiantCowbells, yesterday you said this. Do you still feel it was scum trying to lynch town?

I don't know. I was really caught up on Netherspite scum which led me to believe that you both were town.

I'm fairly confident in my AA read which leaves me with at least one scum in the pair of you two. I'll figure it out when we get a doc claim and lynch Pistachi0n.

Note the absence of a hammer on Pistachi0n nor anyone trying to move into it.

I feel like you're refusing to review how yesterday went. Also, what do you think of Ankamius yesterday thinking Netherspite was assuredly scum, but pushing Alchemist21? I'm also not convinced that a lack of movement towards someone is an indication that such a person is scum.

[Thesp]

And where the heck is All Alone? And RadiantCowbells, why are you so dead-set on AA being town?

[Fluminator]

OK. Thesp is probably confirmed town. I suppose I'll be re- reading.

[Fluminator]

There may be a counter claim though. There was another person who was softing doc as well.

[pistachi0n]

I changed my mind about RC because I looked at Ankamius more closely and was reminded of why I thought he was scummy. And also because of his aggressiveness the whole game, he's been playing really recklessly.

RC, your argument against me could also be applied to Dave (with the votes not piling on.) do you think we're scum together?

[Thesp]

I'm also beginning to think that Ankamius is hoping we'll forget about him.

[davesaz]

Ankamius is the person for whom I thought Nether was the counter wagon.

[pistachi0n]

Yeah. Yesterday it was Nether and Ank. Both saying the other scum slipped. I only saw Ank's.

[Fluminator]

Lol. I thought Dave was the doc.

[pistachi0n]

I thought it was you.