Mini 1432: Clue Master Detective (Game Over)

[shos]

cuz you didn't hammer both peng AND Ms mara

so you're our conftown, yay!!

that removes the option of mara/jen

so

mara/mala
mara/peng
mala/peng

both mala and mara are voting peng so I doubt they are his scumbuddy. Mala can hammer mara and doesn't so that means mala/peng is out of the way.

which means it's either mara/mala or mara/peng.

which means Mara is our lynch today

VOTE: Ms Marangel

for 100% scumflip ^_^

[shos]

well now how do I convince you that I am not scum because this is an assuption needed for the 100% sureness.

If I were scum with anyone it can only be penguin.

there's gotta be something

[penguin_alien]

Quite convenient that Ms Marangal manages to completely ignore the contradiction I pointed out between this:

Uhh...

N0 Fountain (picked up dagger)
N1 First said kitchen (386) then in (430) said Courtyard (Used dagger on Mala)
N2 Library (no Item found)
N3 Trophy room (1046)
N4 Carriage House (1332) MM (found Pipe)
N5 Courtyard (used pipe on Jen)

the double move back into the trophy room was confusion on my part, that didn't happen. the double move was from the Library to the Trophy room was confusion on my part.

there was no N6

(where the room listings are where she started each night, not where she was upon daybreak) and this:

....

no, I was in the carriage house before moving...

I'm at the courtyard now, today.

I'm a candidate for the kill last night, yes but I used my Item to block Jennifer.

which is why I narrowed the list down to you and Sho's as possible murder targets

And no one voting me is inclined to make any type of case beyond 'oh, PoE.' As shown here:

I still don't see Jen as scum. Not convinced of Shos as scum. Which leaves you and Mara. So strictly PoE, gut & connections. Also wagon analysis too.

That doesn't even leave me as the only option by her own PoE. And some unspecified wagon analysis.

Look, we have a slot that is clearly lying and has been for quite some time. That was formerly occupied by someone playing to her purported scum meta (pirate mollie) according to Malakittens. Take a look at the vote Ms Marangal put down:

I am currently thinking two left is a probability as this gives me some similar vibes to pokemon set-up wise

and not two-team theory, sorry three-man scum team with two scum left into today Theory. You dropped that, then picked it up again.

you also had Peng as leaning scum for a while in the past couple days, even stated that Jen/Peng could be a scum-team but you completely drop it today

actually

VOTE: Peng

Jen has the hammer vote, though keep in mind of Sho's interactions with Penguin and make your decision from there

...where is pointing out anything scummy about me? There's some unspecified interactions.

I hate trying to defend myself against a non-existent case, but I'll give it a shot. First off, the Belisarius lynch. Yes, I waffled around it, but I put down a vote when it was 2-2 when, if we're operating under the 'we are at LyLo' theory, the counterwagon was Jennifer who is now very likely town. And looking through my scum games, I go way out of my way to avoid bussing, even when I really should. I need exactly one finger to count the times I've bussed a scum buddy: Fe on Day One of Open 459, and that was only because he had melted down beyond belief. The lack of bussing got me in major trouble in Newbie 1304, Micro 122, and to an extent in WWE Mafia.

I went to rebut a second point, except I can't even think of one beyond the possible argument that I bussed Belisarius. At a point where a likely town lynch was viable and against all my previous meta.

This is getting long; continued in next post.

[penguin_alien]

Note the post numbers here:

Really Shos. Just because you don't like behavior doesn't make someone scum.

I'm starting to go back to my first thought Beli-Peng-Shos scum team.

@jen/Mara:

If I make a case on Peng. Will you at least think about voting her?

Most recent post in this sequence. She says, "If I make a case on Peng." She's voting me and hasn't made a case? At potential LyLo? This is just bizarre, given that it contradicts the typical cautious Malakittens voting behavior.

I still don't see Jen as scum. Not convinced of Shos as scum. Which leaves you and Mara. So strictly PoE, gut & connections. Also wagon analysis too.

Oh, again, here's the case. That leaves two people as possible scum based on unspecified wagon analysis and gut.

Caught in lies?

Yes, Mara/Mollie was, but I'm still considering vigging Peng and if Peng isn't scum we can kill Jen in LyLo.

And here she states outright that Ms Marangal is likely lying and still won't vote there.

Hmmmmm.

Town Mara , town Shos , town Serra.

Scum is in Jen / Peng likely Peng



You guys no sheep prior ):

Earlier, here, she has Ms Marangal as town for...what? Her slot lurking earlier and...uh...yeah, I'm out of reasons.

Shossssssssssssssss.

VOTE: Peng

Followed by this vote.

After all this I'm still really reluctant to give up my town read on Malakittens, but in reviewing the game, it sure is notable that Malakittens didn't have a vote down at the time of the Belisarius lynch but wants y'all to sheep her now.

I have to run, but Jennifer, please don't hammer me without at least considering what I'm saying. If you have questions about something, I'll be around five hours from now and am willing to work with you to figure this out.

[Jennifer]

Those are good posts, Penguin, and would be interste in hearing any rebuttal. I'm leaning towards voting MM at the moment but don't want to be hasty.

Shos, I actually don't think you're likely scum at this point but what makes you think it's 3 scum in a 10p game and not 2? Because scum presumably have a harder time to make a kill?

My flight just landed, visiting a friend this weekend so I'll be sporadically here but churning everything in my head.

[shos]

Both that and the fact that i dont care. If it was one scum we have anothee mislynch so no worries.

Peng,.if you are town you already know tjat me and jen are conftowns for npt hammering you.

If mara is town then theres only one scum which is easy enough discussion for tomorrow.

[Ms Marangal]

They both go for AtE when it comes to addressing you Jen, and how they do it is scummy as well.

Sho's acts all happy that we have a conf. town in a probable lylo and makes his post unnecessarily emotive.

he also immediately tries to find a way to make you not view him as scum, which shouldn't really be something he thinks about as town because he should know that he would be able to prove his innocence as town.

Penguin is a typical case of caught scum but doesn't know why and is frustrated.

I don't really have a case on either of them, I just know that through play, this is town Mala and through night actions you can't be the one who made the kill.

Yeah, a bit portion of my thoughts on Peng is PoE but their interactions with each other is pretty much perfect for scum buddies. Sho's specifically.

He doesn't even respond to why he dropped the three man scum team Idea beyond thinking Serra was scum and he only picks it up again to put me and Mala together.

Pedit: that's such a scum post pretending to not care about what's happening

[Ms Marangal]

as well as pacifying everyone who isn't on his wagon

[shos]

Im gonna lol.

Resppnd at home

[penguin_alien]

Yes, if it's two scum left then Jen and shos are conf-town. Could be one scum left, but the sparse NKs early on make me think scum got a member to compensate for mechanics.

Ms Marangal, where am I using AtE? And you're misrepping shos: he thought serrapaladin flipped red scum as opposed to town and so thought we had an extra scum faction crosskilling. Miss Scarlet's tricky that way. He was corrected and went back to not being sure about the numbers on the single scum team.

Again, broken record here, Ms Marangal: please reconcile you saying you started last night in the Courtyard and saying you're in the Courtyard now.

[Ms Marangal]

I hate trying to defend myself against a non-existent case, but I'll give it a shot.

Tell me this isn't AtE, even if it's slight

[penguin_alien]

...there is no case being presented, I hate trying to address a wagon on me that's at L-1 with no reasons presented. It's an appeal to the bare bones fact that there is nothing to defend myself against. AtE would be saying, 'oh how can anyone be voting poor me with no case!' or 'you jerks, you don't have a case, go DIAF.' Contrast that to observing the lack of a case and my being put in a situation where I have to guess at what people find scummy.

And hey, by the way, care to explain how you started last night in the Courtyard and are still there today?

[shos]

Ms Mara. tell me what made your slot to supposedly have a double move. this is a really last chance. if that is an item, tell me which. if not, well good luck convincing me to remove the vote

[Malakittens]

I have a town read on PM because I don't exactly know how she plays as scum, but I know most of what she looks like.

She was following her town meta on Day 1.

___

The dagger is interesting, but it could make sense with some of other items in play.

Apathetic is more of a scum-trait Mollie; there's only one game where I have seen her not as active as town. >>

She hates playing scum and she rather play town.

Last time she got accused of something she replaced out, but I know the feeling because I almost did the same for the exact same reason. She was town there.

Although, I would think town would get over a lie because that's the part of mafia. You get accused of 'lying' all the time.

Gah. -__-

I'm really starting to doubt scum-Shos only because this isn't how he played last time I was town when he was scum...

Only reason PA why I keep switching on you is based on reads.

I really don't know if Jen is scum and part of me thinks it's unlikely.

Mollie I don't believe is scum, but the only thing making me question it was the inactivity. >.>

When I did do my dayvig test I did *think* it was a Shos/Beli team. It still could be.

Serra is out only because he didn't have to hammer and he could have pulled a no lynch off instead of sacrificing his so called buddy.

After Beli flipped I honestly think the last scum was in between {Shos, PA} and I was going to really vig one and then force a lynch on the other next day depending on the vig flip.
I did originally have it planned to vig you PA, but then switched it based on the fact I think I was just being paranoid and the best vig approach would have been to take the scummiest player out {Shos}.

I do have to recheck Beli's meta.. I want to see if he busses or ignores his buddies. My last class just finally ended today so this opens up a lot of free time. I just feel the whole {Lynch all the girls, but Mala and Shos} probably equals his partner in their rather then calling them a 'town' read.

Peng I have played with Molie town & scum Mollie. There was only one thing that made me think scum Mollie, but I also saw her disinterested in a game when she was town so it's a null tell.

How did you misrep me that much?

[penguin_alien]

You've said nothing specific about how mollie was a town read aside from meta, no examples. When it looked like mollie was going to flake out, you started mentioning that her lurking was representative of her scum play. More specifically, the null tell was her annoyance over the not-lie of the kitchen move, not her disinterest in the game in general.

You've been voting me since the start of the day, during which any scum team not composed of me or you and someone else would have had time to orchestrate a lynch. If it's a two-man scum team, it can only be you and Ms Marangal. If you have the revolver as you say you do and I'm lynched where you and Ms Marangal are a team, it's game over. Which is the only reason I can think why you would both be voting me while avoiding making a case: because this is the last lynch you need.

As much as I'm hesitant to throw out a top town read, it is not plausible to me that you're not at all interested in Ms Marangal 's demonstrated lie. It doesn't jive with your very capable town play. I want Ms Marangal lynched first, but your play today has completely torpedoed my town read on you.

It looks to me like you and mollie had each others' backs in the early game, and when it looked like mollie was going to be dead weight, you set up a bus. Then Ms Marangal came in and was more engaged, so you fell back to the mutual admiration society.

Two things, Mala: explain why you don't mind Ms Marangal's lie about starting last night in the Courtyard versus starting in the Carriage House and moving to the Courtyard, and explain why youndon't mind that no items seem to account for Ms Marangal's double move.

[Malakittens]

Or it's because I think you are scum?

The Serra killed could only have made by you or Mara and possibly Shos. No one ever made the comment on where he should room claim. He's been so 'sneaky' in terms of not wanting to share where he is. Yet no one is commenting on that. All of you are more focused on Mara/Mollie's lie rather than anything else. I shouldn't have used the dagger on Shos - I should have used the fucking thing on Serra as he was my strongest town read. But Shos was like "I want everyone to move here - blah blah" so I protected him knowing he had the candlestick against my better judgment. I also have been doubting my better judgment this whole fucking game and now I'm done doubting it and I'm going to use it. It's telling me the final scum

are between Shos/PA.

Want to know the real reason why I'm not interested in it? I think this is a decoy and I think this is a plot by the scum to have the town focus on her and I'm not falling for it.

I always have Mollie's back in any start of any game. It's where I can read her the most and get a decent read on her.

If anyone wants to know why I don't ever like being someone's strongest town read is because closer it gets to LyLo everyone starts suspecting me and then I become mislynch bait. This is what's Shos is doing. If the game doesn't end with Mara then lynch Mala. Where he totally disregarded any prior read on me like it was smoke in the wind.

Yes, do I find the double movement odd? Yes I do. Is there a chance it could be one of those unknown scum abilities? Yes.

Also if I'm going to bus I don't back off ever. Mara became more engaged and she's an open book to read. Maybe it's because I hydra'd with both of them or because I know how they play as scum/town when being solo. Day 1 Mollie's posts ARE AN INDICATOR OF TOWN MOLLIE.

[penguin_alien]

If there are two scum left, shos isn't one of them. At least you cannot convince me he is, as he could hammer me and unless you revolvered him without scum also killing, he'd be sunk. If Ms Marangal flips town and I'm still alive tomorrow, I'd consider shos-scum. But a) I cannot see Ms Marangal flipping town, and b) if she did, you'd probably revolver me, making my further opinion moot.

BTW, if you and mollie-Mara are scum together, your vague assurances of meta aren't worth a thing. Concrete examples of town things the slot has done to override inconsistent stories and extreme apathy would be more worthwhile.

I do assume we can agree that Jennifer isn't part of any possible two scum left combo?

[Malakittens]

I haven't believed Jen to be scum since Beli flipped. You'll be hardpressed to convince me of that.

My assurances of meta is worth a damn only because I'm not scum so how could I possibly be partnered with anyone?

There's only one thing at work I was wondering, but then I thought it was a silly thought.

Hey Mara can you do me a favor and name claim who you are please?

[penguin_alien]

...I'm not trying to convince you Jen is scum. I'm trying to establish that we agree on that.

[Malakittens]

Then we agree on it. No problem

[Ms Marangal]

Ironically, I'm professor Plum though why does it matter? names aren't alignment indicative I thought

[Malakittens]

Okay I said it was stupid, but i was wondering if the double movement could be related to Peacock

Shaduppppp. Don't even say it ;o

[Ms Marangal]

Peacock?

and I'm pretty certain the double move had to have been a result of an item, my guess is horse shoe

[Malakittens]

How?

The Horse Shoe doesn't affect movement.. I had it night 1.

[Malakittens]

oh for F sakes. Night 0. ;_;

I forgot we started in Night 0.