Mini 1509 - Marriage in Mafiatown (Game Over)

[Tierce]

Votecount 6.2

(3)

Not voting

- clammy, DeasVail, SXTLHGaiden

With 3 alive, it takes 2 votes to lynch.
The deadline is January 29 at 1:50 PM PST. Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2014-01-29 13:50:00)

[DeasVail]

Let's get this party started!

IaI's attack on Ravenpaw in 139 and around there is pretty weak. Could definitely see it as buddy distancing. Also, note in 366 how it's only if Redtail flips scum that raven is a proper scumread. Gives him a nice excuse to back out of it later if scum (knowing that Redtail would flip town).

I actually am finding the inconsistency in 464 more scummy than I did at first. People have things that they look for when scumhunting, so the fact that he uses the same thing as both a scumtell and a towntell bothers me and makes me suspect scum trying to fit reasons to predetermined reads.

The other town things that I mentioned are still good though. 462 is townish and there's the Dorcas thing, which were my thoughts exactly at the time.

The bolded in 848[post] could be too aggressive for scum.

His content is still unusual for IaI-scum.

Still think what I pointed out in [post=1051]1051 before is townish. Rings much more of town wanting to show off that they were right than scum where... I can't think of a reason why they would say that.

Oh I forgot about clammy's 'momentum' thing. And 1115 is in direct contradiction with his earlier comment about lynching someone regardless of them getting replaced. What's more he uses the replacement as an excuse not to lynch his scumread JKLM (flipped scum) despite earlier saying that Marquis should be lynched regardless. And bringing someone to L-1 when you have two actual scumreads and it's not close to deadline is just ???. But is it too ??? to be scum?? And is this furthering the town some kind of townie delusion or scum just making stuff up? But then why would scum vote Empking? It's just a mess.

There's also a lot of talk about the Mindgamer/Wake/JKLM slot but no real attempt to push it.

Oh wait, 1354 is actually pretty risky from scum in hindsight. I guess Mindgamer was pretty invisible so a bus was possible and it would have been really weird if he voted Empking... but yeah I don't know. It still feels like he was risking a buddy lynch there. He could have just pretended to be convinced by me or something and escaped having to vote for Mindgamer.

I quite like how he's been playing today too, but again, I feel this could be faked.

~~

Sorry for being so waffly. I'm not so sure that I'm leaning towards Gaiden anymore, but I'll probably go through his ISO again tomorrow. I don't think I'd get much out of it now.

But yeah, when people get the chance, doing the 'I'm so town' post thing would be much appreciated.

[clammy]

Hi DV. The reason I'm town is very simple.

I have aggressively pursued scum, been open, loud, honest and on the table.

In turn this inevitably means I haven't always found scum, but it's part of the process.

While Marquis/Cabd was a bad target (

nay, it was a terrible target, I apologise for so aggressively pursuing them after the Garruck thing, I read that all wrong

), I went for it, built a case, relentlessly pursued my scumbag to see what would fall. In the end enough truth and persuasion fell from Cabd that Wake/Mindgamer's partner felt they had to get rid of Cabd and leave me behind. Maybe it was the level to which Cabd was convinced he would win in any end-game situation.
(Now I get it, this is WIFOM, but which scum would so aggressively pursue Marquis/Cabd - remembering that to scum there is no confusion that turning Garruck is the MOST town thing ever?)

Responding now to #1426.
I hope you appreciate that I cannot offer explanation for my predecessor.

Still think what I pointed out in 1051 before is townish. Rings much more of town wanting to show off that they were right than scum where... I can't think of a reason why they would say that.

For me this was more of a correlation check between what I was reading and the revealed roles. I read a large chunk of the game, had the scum-vibes for Garruck, then he flipped scum. So for me, that's a good sign that my reads were good. In the end 2/3 with Garruck/Wake/Marquis wasn't bad.

There's also a lot of talk about the Mindgamer/Wake/JKLM slot but no real attempt to push it.

Always push the best case. Resort to the second best.

Oh wait, 1354 is actually pretty risky from scum in hindsight. I guess Mindgamer was pretty invisible so a bus was possible and it would have been really weird if he voted Empking... but yeah I don't know. It still feels like he was risking a buddy lynch there. He could have just pretended to be convinced by me or something and escaped having to vote for Mindgamer.

You've said this better than I could have. The bit about how I was hunting scum in a risky fashion that showed no genuine regard for self-preservation that is, not the bit about it being easily faked.

Again: aggressive, open, loud, honest and on the table.

And what do I think?

If there is a single observation that stands out to me it it this.

Town

Something tells me remembers v Empking is town v town. Don't know why, just gut.

I like this.

That JKLM/Mindgamer named Rem/DV openly as town in the same sentence as Empking.

[DeasVail]

Thanks clammy. I have questions (well one), but I think I should wait until Gaiden reappears before asking it.

[Tierce]

Votecount 6.3

(3)

Not voting

- clammy, DeasVail, SXTLHGaiden

With 3 alive, it takes 2 votes to lynch.
The deadline is January 29 at 1:50 PM PST. Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2014-01-29 13:50:00)

[clammy]

@Mod: V/LA 21-24 January. Work trip.

[DeasVail]

I guess I'll continue later?

[Tierce]

Votecount 6.4

(3)

Not voting

- clammy, DeasVail, SXTLHGaiden


SXTLHGaiden has been prodded.

With 3 alive, it takes 2 votes to lynch.
The deadline is January 29 at 1:50 PM PST. Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2014-01-29 13:50:00)

[SXTLHGaiden]

prod received. will start doin stuff tomorrow when i get home.

[Tierce]

Votecount 6.5

(3)

Not voting

- clammy, DeasVail, SXTLHGaiden

With 3 alive, it takes 2 votes to lynch.
The deadline is January 29 at 1:50 PM PST. Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2014-01-29 13:50:00)

[DeasVail]

Sorry for not getting the Gaiden read done yet. Things have been pretty crappy lately and uni starting up again at full force doesn't help either. The latest I'll get it done is this weekend, but if I get the opportunity before that I will.

[Tierce]

Votecount 6.6

(3)

Not voting

- clammy, DeasVail, SXTLHGaiden


clammy has been prodded.

With 3 alive, it takes 2 votes to lynch.
The deadline is January 29 at 1:50 PM PST. Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2014-01-29 13:50:00)

[SXTLHGaiden]

prod dodge.

[Tierce]

Votecount 6.7

(3)

Not voting

- clammy, DeasVail, SXTLHGaiden

With 3 alive, it takes 2 votes to lynch.
The deadline is January 29 at 1:50 PM PST. Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2014-01-29 13:50:00)

[clammy]

Good morning.

I'm up for that question now if you still have one, DV.

[clammy]

prod dodge.

@Gaiden

. All you are showing, throughout this whole game in fact, is that you are unwilling to help the town.

While in earlier game days perhaps you are just busy, at worst lazy, now it really just looks like you don't want to help.

Besides the scum, who doesn't want to help the town?

[SXTLHGaiden]

you seem pretty convinced. I want a vote.

[clammy]

Dorcas/Gaiden

Despite the other game, I still think that 221 is pretty town. The 'I replace the next guy' line really doesn't make sense from Dorcas if he's scum, because that would have obvious implications, and he seems so genuine about wanting to get back in that it can't be a cheeky act to make his slot look more town. Considering what YES pointed out though, I'm willing to consider that the slot might be scum, hence this section of my post!

276 concerns me a lot. Why would it be funny? Are you not confirmed town? I could see scum doing this too look ultra-reasonable, the whole 'I'm so town that I will even question my conftown status!' but really I think it's unlikely town would do it. /conflicted.

And then 334???

I think the inconsistency from 546 to 548 is less likely from scum.

1123 is townish.

~~

Hi DV, your ISO is an easy read.

Wondering where you're at since this post. Here you pointed to Gaiden town, a short time later you suggested that Gaiden was very likely scum, you've see-sawed back and forth all since.

Clearly this is just a lack of surety (or we would already be at endgame), but where do you sit now?

How scummy is Gaiden's lack of contribution, how likely is it that he's cruising because he's scum or because he's bored and uninterested?

[clammy]

you seem pretty convinced. I want a vote.

Oh. Hai.

[SXTLHGaiden]

Gaiden tends to be a very reactive player with a tendency to active lurk.

[clammy]

Writing your own biography?

[SXTLHGaiden]

one post at a time.

[SXTLHGaiden]

anyway, you seem to be setting yourself up to vote either of us.

[clammy]

You're right, but it doesn't mean I am willing to vote either of you. As town I am motivated to seek and draw each of your reads out of you before revealing my own.
So does the other townie.
As a game of poker.

[DeasVail]

I'll reread Gaiden's ISO today and probably have a better idea of things then. Clammy, I'll get back to you about the question after Gaiden responds to my request on the previous page. (Please do btw).