Mini 873 Plainview Game Over

[Sanjay]

I had not considered the downside of letting the mafia discuss strategy that pertains to this specific situation, but that does not change my mind.

If Gammagooey is scum, he's plenty smart enough to figure out strategy all by himself.

[peanutman]

Sanjay, I'm saying that we lynch Gamma today, and there's just his scum-buddy left to figure things out on his own.

However, what do you make if my set-up analysis? With a Godfather in play, shouldn't there also be a cop? I have not been counter-claimed so I think it should be clear that I am either telling the truth (i.e. I am the cop), or there is no cop. What I'm saying is that the presence of the godfather guarantees, IMO, that there's also a cop. Therefore, I must be a cop, and the fact that I had an innocent on AGM (NK'd) and a guilty on Gooey confirms my sanity (i.e. I'm a sane cop). I'm trying to see this from a vanilla townie's perspective with no other info and I think this logical, step-by-step explanation is solid.

@ everyone, does this make sense? Does anyone doubt my claim? Does anyone believe Gooey's claim?

[Sanjay]

And I'm saying that keeping our cop or our roleblocker alive an extra day is worth letting the mafia chat it up.

We have an even number of players. It is unlikely we are going to stop a nightkill to buy us an extra lynch. Therefore, it is likely we are going to be no lynching eventually.

This is the best time.

[peanutman]

Sanjan, you didn't answer my question though. Do you doubt my claim, given the logic I presented?

[MordyS]

I think Peanutman is absolutely a sane cop (doesn't make sense to have a godfather in the mix otherwise). We're going to have to NL tomorrow, but we might as well lynch the scum today.

Vote: Gammagooey

[foilist13]

@Sanjay - I see no reason to doubt Peanut's claim. If there was another cop, he would have claimed by now, and the godfather does indicate that there would be a cop in the first place. Peanut's logic is solid.

The only reason not to lynch is to get more info, but we already have info. We know who the next scum player is, and if through some twist of fate peanut is lying and the mod put in a godfather for no reason, then we'll be able to lynch him tomorrow, leaving us with 3 town to 1 scum, giving us another opportunity, and much more useful opportunity to no lynch.

unvote, vote: Gammagooey

[MordyS]

Wait. There's 8 of us. We won't have to NL tomorrow. If we lynch Gammagooey today, that means we'll be in 6p with only 1 scum. That'll give us 1 Freelynch and 1 Nolynch before Lylo. (We can reverse the FL and NL if we wanna FL on 5 instead of on 6.) I say we lynch scum today.

[PhaerieM]

Peanut's right, I don't see a reason for there to be a godfather and no cop in this game when his whole ability revolves around hiding from the cop. And I *kind* of see where you're coming from with the no lynch, Sanjay, but I think that's only a good idea if we really aren't too sure between Peanut and Gamma. Peanut *could* be lying, he could've given the innocent result on AGM knowing he was innocent, & was hoping either for no counterclaim or to out the real doctor, but for whatever reason (beyond the godfather thing), I believe him. And Gamma's defense post seemed um.. a tad panicky & forced. I wasn't buying it.

Peanut, if you are the cop, *great* job with your investigation choice. You're right that I can see Gamma just coasting his way to the end game without an investigation, & no one being interested in lynching or even questioning him. Good job for not listening to any of us fools.

MordyS, seriously? No mention of your archaebob debacle?

[MordyS]

Debacle? Archaebob thought that Sanjay and I were a scumteam and was basically going to write a manifesto "proving" it. Obviously Gammagooey is scum (or very very very off chance Peanutman is scum). So Archaebob was totally wrong and was going to waste everyone's time and spam the thread with his nonsense. He's a poor player, and he could use to learn a little humility in his play. Maybe he'll take the chance to cool off and think about it. And btw: I was right. At least one scum player wasn't on the wagon. I really should just take a bow.

(And at the time I felt very good about his lynch. I turned out to be wrong, but that happens.)

[foilist13]

No MordyS, Archaebob was not wrong. He thought sanjay was probably your scumbuddy, but now we know that to be Gamma. You sir are scum. You will die by the end of the game. Right now though Gamma is going to die, as he is essentially confirmed scum.

[peanutman]

He's a poor player, and

he could use to learn a little humility in his play

. Maybe he'll take the chance to cool off and think about it.

And btw: I was right

. At least one scum player wasn't on the wagon.

I really should just take a bow.

lol... Off-topic but I like how these two statements follow each other.

---

MordyS, seriously? No mention of your archaebob debacle?

What did you mean by this?

---

Foilist, tone down the blind rhetoric and I suggest you, as I am doing right now, re-read the thread with Gammy and Muffin as scum in mind to find their partner. I'm not saying that Mordy can't possibly be scum, but let's not throw out accusations but build cases around the scum-Gamma revelation.

[foilist13]

@Peanut - I intend to, but I think we can be fairly certain of Mordy based on his interactions with archaebob in isolation.

@Sanjay - There is no reason in this situation to no lynch. We have caught one if not both scum.

[peanutman]

Here are some of the highlights of my partial re-read :

MordyS

MordyS's comment about being scared of Spyrex if he's scum, followed by his N1 lynch. Was Mordy scared and wanted to get rid of him early, or were the scum-team trying to frame him? I had noticed it before but made nothing of it at the time but my read-through encouraged me to post it up now.

As far as the Archae vs. Mordy debacle, Gamma's analysis of it gives me the feeling he's trying to fuel a town vs. town showdown. I don't think he would go so much in depth if one of them (i.e. MordyS) was his buddy. He would rather not encourage more attention on his partner.

Papa Zito & PhaerieM

They were both key in getting the godfather lynched and so they are obvtown in my book.

Foillist

I'm leaning towards town-Foilist while analysing his relationship with Gooey, because Gamma was pushing for votes, D1, on either AGM or Foilist. He did favour an AGM-lynch and was reluctant to switch, but I feel he was looking to buddy to Foilist more than them being scum-buddies. Also, his push of lynching Foilist yesterday also strengthens my town read on Foilist. Why would he distract us from Archae vs. Mordy to attract attention to his buddy? It seems more likely that he's throwing suspicion around to many players, further confusing the town and making us focus less on Gamma himself.

Sanjay

I am troubled by Sanjay's reaction today to my post, wanting to no-lynch, giving weight to Gamma's roleblocker claim. However, I haven't yet noticed any hints of a Gamma-Sanjay pairing.

Cruelty

I do suspect that Cruelty might be the last scum though. He was easier on Cruelty with his questions that others, at least that's the impression I got. He then pushed a Cruelty-peanut pairing D2 because of our lack of targetting each other. Also, if cruelty flipped scum, then so did I, but if I flipped scum, it didn't really mean anything about Cruelty's alignment. Either way, I should be lynched but not Cruelty. He said something similar (iso 55) with AGM, saying that if Cruelty flips scum, then AGM must be as well. It is suspicious that he links Cruelty with a few players so in the event that Cruelty does flip scum, he can try to push the "connected mislynch" by saying he suspected it all along.

As for his scumbuddy, cruelty would still make a lot of sense to me but given peanut's sheer balls to fake a guilty right now he has a LOT of confidence in his scumbuddy to win the game for him. It seems a bit of a stretch to think that cruelty would get an easy win from this with my comments on him and peanut yesterday.

This final quote does have me thinking. I'll talk it out, hopefully it'll make sense.
First off, would Gooey really call out his last partner by claiming Cruelty is my scum-buddy? However, he's probably thinking : "When the town figures out I'm lying, they know I lied about Peanut, and therefore they will assume I lied about Cruelty as well." It's not necessarily the best thought out plan, but, let's be honest, Gooey has been totally blind-sided by this. He surely didn't expect to be investigated and is scrambling for a defense.
Also, Cruelty hasn't said anything yet. He has posted twice this evening (about half an hour ago) on another game. I suspect that he's panicking, not knowing what to say just yet and trying to think up a contingency plan.

Finally, my gut is leaning towards a scum-Cruelty, and my gut was right regarding Gooey already, so I'm willing to listen to it. My second guess would be Sanjay. All others I am strongly believing are town, though don't want to blindly ignore them all.

For the rest of you, could you re-read Gooey with this new info and see what you read of it?

----

EBWOPreview

Foilist, why couldn't the Mordy-Archae issue be town vs. town? Yes, Mordy was quite wrong about Archae, but does this fact automatically make him scum?

[cruelty]

This is hardly the other-game-quitting balls to the wall forum phenomenon that I was expecting, foilist.

Peanut/GG will sort themselves out, one is obviously mafia. I guess the issue is the 3rd scum.

Apologies to AGM, I guess you're just a loose cannon rather than scummy.


Gonna go read GG in iso and see what's what, I'm more inclined to believe peanut at this point but I'm not going to commit to a side before I've done the research.

[peanutman]

Gonna go read GG in iso and see what's what, I'm more inclined to believe peanut at this point but I'm not going to commit to a side before I've done the research.

Quite weak of you Cruelty. Please explain to me why you can't commit to one-side at this point. If you're Gooey's scum-buddy, this kind of reaction is definitely not helping you.

[cruelty]

Also, Cruelty hasn't said anything yet. He has posted twice this evening (about half an hour ago) on another game. I suspect that he's panicking, not knowing what to say just yet and trying to think up a contingency plan.

lol.

I live in New Zealand, I've been at work all day. I find this game to require a bit more effort than the others, and don't like trying to make posts here from my ipod.


Your case on me (such as it is) is based on someone else's actions. This isn't in anyway reflective of how I've played the game and as such I'm not sure how much merit it has. There's more to be said about this, but I'll come back to it.



pre-submission-edit: I don't want to commit to a side because I can conceive of you being scum. I think it's more likely that GG is but are you asking me to choose a wagon without doing the research first? It's not like there's a huge rush here.

[cruelty]

Wait hang on.

For the rest of you, could you re-read Gooey with this new info and see what you read of it?

Gonna go read GG in iso and see what's what, I'm more inclined to believe peanut at this point but I'm not going to commit to a side before I've done the research.

Quite weak of you Cruelty. Please explain to me why you can't commit to one-side at this point.

So... for some reason I'm not allowed to re-read with all the other children? Not liking the discrimination.

[peanutman]

But there isn't much research to do. I've claimed to be cop, I am sure of my sanity (given AGM's flip, my N1 investigation), and Gooey came up guilty. You either believe my claim, and find him guilty. Or you believe this set-up has a Godfather with no cop, you believe Gamma's roleblocker claim, and you vote me. It's not a question of re-reading the entire thread. At least, I don't think it is. I ask anyone to correct my logic if I'm wrong here.

[peanutman]

EBWOP : It's not that you can't re-read GG, but I encouraged the town to re-read the thread with him in mind as scum, not to see if he himself is scum. That's the difference I speak of. I also find it odd that you're the only one up to now (other than GG) to not catch on. The jig is up.
If I could, "D4 Vote : Cruelty".

[cruelty]

But there isn't much research to do. I've claimed to be cop, I am sure of my sanity (given AGM's flip, my N1 investigation), and Gooey came up guilty. You either believe my claim, and find him guilty. Or you believe this set-up has a Godfather with no cop, you believe Gamma's roleblocker claim, and you vote me. It's not a question of re-reading the entire thread. At least, I don't think it is. I ask anyone to correct my logic if I'm wrong here.

I didn't say I wanted to re-read the entire thread (why would I?), I wanted to re-read GG (and probably you) before I decide whose claim I believe. How is that in any way unreasonable?

[MordyS]

lol, obviously Peanutman's claim is the right one. Why else would there be a godfather in the game?

[cruelty]

I didn't really think about it, to be honest.

Reading GG in iso is kinda interesting - he's very opportunistic, most of his attacks are on the easy targets; myself, archaebob (especially towards the end of yesterday, when he quite quickly changed his tune from paranoid-bob to scum-bob), AGM and foilist. There's really very little regarding anyone else. I guess that's ironic given where my sights have been set (and more than a little concerning, too, from my point of view) but I think it's also important given that of the 5 of us, 2 have flipped town and one is all but confirmed cop. You can consider that me taking your side, btw.


Also, your "case" on me - it's entirely founded on what GG has (or hasn't done), or what he might (or might not) have done. This isn't actually a case on me, this is speculation about how the two of us interacted based on how one of us behaved. This is an argument that I seem to come up against quite often, so I guess it's a flaw in my play, but I think you're just tilting at windmills here - there are still a couple of players (most noticeable Mordy) who I haven't really had much to do with even at this late stage of the game. I don't really understand what makes me so scummy aside from this, perhaps you can enlighten me.

[Sanjay]

Ugh, you guys.

Unvote

My plan isn't going to work if you all declare how easy the Gammagooey-Peanutman decision is, especially if you all pick the same side.

I'm sure we're all fine scumhunters and everything, but I really wanted to get a second investigation in. If we lynch Gammagooey today and he flips scum, there is just no way Peanutman survives the night. If we make it quite clear that we are definitely going with Gammagooey, there's no reason for the mafia not to roleblock peanutman, and there's no reason for the mafia not to kill peanutman.

Here's what I think, as far as setup speculation goes:

The existence of a Godfather doesn't 100% confirm the existence of a cop, but it implies it. I suppose it is slightly bastardly to put a Godfather in a game without a cop, but I think it is much less bastardly than Peanutman is implying.

The existence of a doctor doesn't 100% the non-existence of a town-aligned roleblocker, but it implies it. Town-aligned roleblocker in a normal game seems kind of terrible and if we are doing setup speculation, I'm quite skeptical it is in the game.

I think by far the most likely scenario is peanutman-town, Gammagooey-scum.

[MordyS]

So whatdya say? Can we lynch scum tonight?

[Benmage]

I'll vote count tomorrow, it may or may not be after 3 am...and i may or may not had something....lots... to drink.