Mini 653 - Family Guy Mafia - Game over

[LlamaFluff]

And thus onto my argument, as scum I can see he convincingly looking townie. He's not one of the one's i'm finding really town, but I wouldn't be calling him scum, on reads, basically.

That's exactly what I think of him. I'm afraid that if he

is

scum, I'll never be able to pin it for sure because he's such a good player. Unfortunately if he ended up a mislynch it could be a huge loss for the town in brainpower. I don't think an StD lynch is a good idea just yet. It's too much of a shot in the dark.

I am becoming increasingly sure of a GW/RF/Dragon scum setup. I should have stuff up on GW soon who is the most obvious of the trio

[kloud1516]

Alright. Sorry about taking so long, the reread was slightly postponed earlier. This game is moving really fast, which is good for the game, but bad for me when trying to keep up.

A couple of things I would like to address:

I still feel that BG/Rock are scum. My earlier case against BG wasn't refuted if I am not mistaken, and Rock has done little to sway my opinion. This being said, I will begin to look elsewhere for other scum, as focusing on one person for the entire day is not going to benefit town.

Next -- Some things that I found odd/had questions about:

Well I'd like LF to reply - I could be wrong, and if so he should tell me. But I can't see any reason why claimed roles shouldn't post their night actions - what do we lose from that?

I don't like the way you start Day 2 by asking claimed roles to post night actions. Sure, providing information from night actions is beneficial to the town, but imo this can/should be withheld until later in the day when it is needed. By doing so, the town can accumulate more information based off of actions of other players, which then will lead to cases being made based off of logic and not just speculation. Should these cases begin to pile up against someone who is known to be innocent, that would be the time to give your information from the night.

If LF confirms someone it could mean they get killed by mafia sooner...

But if LF dies before revealing his innocent, then his investigation is lost. Which is much worse, IMO.

I am not understanding this, EK. Are you saying that LF should have revealed his innocent, or are you saying he shouldn't? The second paragraph makes it seem like you believe threat of LF being killed before his investigation is revealed is a strong possibility. This seems to come out of left field, and makes me wonder whether or not you also have information that you are trying to hide. Don't you think that if LF got close to being lynched he would give the town the information?

EK
Xtoxm/Rock
I've no idea for the third one. STD would be a gut feeling one but I ignore gut feelings and "too townie" isn't good reasoning so... I guess kloud could be scum, or kmd.

But today, I want EK or the lovers, barring critical information.

I think KMD addresses this later on page 52, but if you are guessing that kmd could be scum to the point that he has made your possible top 3 choice list, then why would you give him your invention?

EK
Xtoxm/Rock
I've no idea for the third one. STD would be a gut feeling one but I ignore gut feelings and "too townie" isn't good reasoning so... I

guess

kloud could be scum, or kmd.

But today, I want EK or the lovers, barring critical information.

Interesting that you have the same gut feeling on kloud and STD.

I ignore gut feelings, which is why I don't want to commit on scum number 3 just yet.

Ok.

Mine would be GW STD Kloud. Mainly from thinking just about everyone else is town.

Although I can see LF being scum. But that shouldn't be explored yet anyway.

Why STD?

I have a nagging feeling too,

but I think I'm just wary of him being scum and playing a great game. My reason tells me he's town though.

LF I can see as scum too, but you're right about us not talking about him yet.

Interesting. In my opinion, guessing and/or having nagging feelings about something indicates that a gut feeling is involved. You "guessed" that either me, STD, or KMD could be scum, you then claim that you ignore gut your gut feelings, but then follow this post up with saying that you have nagging feelings about STD.

I can understand separating players between those who you feel are most likely town and those you are unsure of, for I have done and am still doing the same as well. What struck me as funny was the phrasing of these three posts, as they seem to not be cohesive. Just thought I would point that out.

It's interesting to see the similarities these lists of 3 have.

I agree. Kloud and STD showed up on mine, reborn's, and Xtoxm's.

Rock is still scum though.

This

is

interesting, isn't it? The fact that five people have almost identical suspect lists without much reasoning besides "everyone else seems to be town" or "all I have to go on right now are gut feelings" is slightly alarming. I can't help but consider the possibility that at least one of you simply are trying to blend in with a group opinion.

[Xtoxm]

Did not like that post at all. (Kloud)

[reborn537]

Ok, I'm not giving out my night action. Something that stuck out to me:

To expand - finding out IG's target could tell us who the mafia are looking to kill, and then we can begin to explore our motives. I much prefer the psycological and logical side of the game rather than just guessing and almost handicapping ourselves by not revealing the info.

How is finding out my target going to tell us who the mafia are looking to kill? If I was a doctor then fair enough, because there was no kill, but I'm a bodyguard. If I die it's either because I picked the right person or the mafia wanted me dead.

It's interesting to see the similarities these lists of 3 have.

I misunderstood the bodyguard role. I've never played in a game with that before either.

The reason there are similarities in the lists is because there are certain people who we're not looking to lynch - LF, myself, kmd (look at him again tomorrow), and you. That doesn't leave too many candidates so the lists are going to be down to personal opinion and will have some overlap.

[reborn537]

Wow, Kloud, this is going to be fun.

[reborn537]

Alright. Sorry about taking so long, the reread was slightly postponed earlier. This game is moving really fast, which is good for the game, but bad for me when trying to keep up.

A couple of things I would like to address:

I still feel that BG/Rock are scum. My earlier case against BG wasn't refuted if I am not mistaken, and Rock has done little to sway my opinion. This being said, I will begin to look elsewhere for other scum, as focusing on one person for the entire day is not going to benefit town.

I agree that the lovers contain a scum, but unlike you I think lynching them today is fine.

Next -- Some things that I found odd/had questions about:

Well I'd like LF to reply - I could be wrong, and if so he should tell me. But I can't see any reason why claimed roles shouldn't post their night actions - what do we lose from that?

I don't like the way you start Day 2 by asking claimed roles to post night actions. Sure, providing information from night actions is beneficial to the town, but imo this can/should be withheld until later in the day when it is needed. By doing so, the town can accumulate more information based off of actions of other players, which then will lead to cases being made based off of logic and not just speculation. Should these cases begin to pile up against someone who is known to be innocent, that would be the time to give your information from the night.

When it will be needed. What does that even mean. We need all the information now, while we can talk, and that will help us today. Information doesn't just vanish after it's been said, we can still use it today. All information accrued from claimed power roles' night actions should be told because it only helps the town. For this you get a big fat

FoS

If LF confirms someone it could mean they get killed by mafia sooner...

But if LF dies before revealing his innocent, then his investigation is lost. Which is much worse, IMO.

I am not understanding this, EK. Are you saying that LF should have revealed his innocent, or are you saying he shouldn't? The second paragraph makes it seem like you believe threat of LF being killed before his investigation is revealed is a strong possibility. This seems to come out of left field, and makes me wonder whether or not you also have information that you are trying to hide. Don't you think that if LF got close to being lynched he would give the town the information?

Interesting point, and as I've said I would be happy lynching EK, but I think you could be reading too much into this.

EK
Xtoxm/Rock
I've no idea for the third one. STD would be a gut feeling one but I ignore gut feelings and "too townie" isn't good reasoning so... I guess kloud could be scum, or kmd.

But today, I want EK or the lovers, barring critical information.

I think KMD addresses this later on page 52, but if you are guessing that kmd could be scum to the point that he has made your possible top 3 choice list, then why would you give him your invention?

If you count, it's more like top 2, then everyone who isn't on my not lynch list. I.e. you and kmd have been mostly null up till this point. I gave kmd my invention because the town suggested it. At least, I think it was RF's idea and others backed her. Plus, the invention served basically to confirm me. Anything else it does is just a bonus. If he's scum, we lose nothing, if he's town, we gain something (although I don't know what that is).

EK
Xtoxm/Rock
I've no idea for the third one. STD would be a gut feeling one but I ignore gut feelings and "too townie" isn't good reasoning so... I

guess

kloud could be scum, or kmd.

But today, I want EK or the lovers, barring critical information.

Interesting that you have the same gut feeling on kloud and STD.

I ignore gut feelings, which is why I don't want to commit on scum number 3 just yet.

Ok.

Mine would be GW STD Kloud. Mainly from thinking just about everyone else is town.

Although I can see LF being scum. But that shouldn't be explored yet anyway.

Why STD?

I have a nagging feeling too,

but I think I'm just wary of him being scum and playing a great game. My reason tells me he's town though.

LF I can see as scum too, but you're right about us not talking about him yet.

Interesting. In my opinion, guessing and/or having nagging feelings about something indicates that a gut feeling is involved. You "guessed" that either me, STD, or KMD could be scum, you then claim that you ignore gut your gut feelings, but then follow this post up with saying that you have nagging feelings about STD.

I can understand separating players between those who you feel are most likely town and those you are unsure of, for I have done and am still doing the same as well. What struck me as funny was the phrasing of these three posts, as they seem to not be cohesive. Just thought I would point that out.

Of course a gut feeling is there, but I'm ignoring it, which is why I'm not going after or voting for yourself, STD, or LF based on a nagging doubt. When I mentioned the nagging feelings to.. Xtoxm I think? He had just said that he was worried about STD because he seemed able to act really pro-town as scum. I admitted that I was wary of this, but that it wasn't an argument for STD's lynch - if STD is scum he will have to slip or we will have to get some info on him before we can talk about lynching him.

It's interesting to see the similarities these lists of 3 have.

I agree. Kloud and STD showed up on mine, reborn's, and Xtoxm's.

Rock is still scum though.

This

is

interesting, isn't it? The fact that five people have almost identical suspect lists without much reasoning besides "everyone else seems to be town" or "all I have to go on right now are gut feelings" is slightly alarming. I can't help but consider the possibility that at least one of you simply are trying to blend in with a group opinion.

I've explained already about this. There are only so many people who aren't in the "not lynch" category. The "not lynch" category is probably pretty similar for most people, leaving large overlap for the top 3 scummy people.

For me, I have the following list

Not Lynch
Reborn
LF
IG
KMD (Not lynch today - also null)

Null
Xtoxm
Kloud
GW
RF
STD

Scummiest
EK
Rock

For Xtoxm, he's eliminating himself and Rock from the list, so he has even fewer people to choose from.

[kloud1516]

Alright. Sorry about taking so long, the reread was slightly postponed earlier. This game is moving really fast, which is good for the game, but bad for me when trying to keep up.

A couple of things I would like to address:

I still feel that BG/Rock are scum. My earlier case against BG wasn't refuted if I am not mistaken, and Rock has done little to sway my opinion. This being said, I will begin to look elsewhere for other scum, as focusing on one person for the entire day is not going to benefit town.

I agree that the lovers contain a scum, but unlike you I think lynching them today is fine.

I never said that lynching them wasn't fine. I

want

to lynch BG/Rock, just as much as I wanted to lynch them yesterday. All I said was that I would begin looking elsewhere. This would be in order to find connections that may indicate scum partnership with BG/Rock, as well as a means of preventing me from getting tunnel vision when I could actually be helping pin other possible scum.

Next -- Some things that I found odd/had questions about:

Well I'd like LF to reply - I could be wrong, and if so he should tell me. But I can't see any reason why claimed roles shouldn't post their night actions - what do we lose from that?

I don't like the way you start Day 2 by asking claimed roles to post night actions. Sure, providing information from night actions is beneficial to the town, but imo this can/should be withheld until later in the day when it is needed. By doing so, the town can accumulate more information based off of actions of other players, which then will lead to cases being made based off of logic and not just speculation. Should these cases begin to pile up against someone who is known to be innocent, that would be the time to give your information from the night.

When it will be needed. What does that even mean. We need all the information now, while we can talk, and that will help us today. Information doesn't just vanish after it's been said, we can still use it today. All information accrued from claimed power roles' night actions should be told because it only helps the town. For this you get a big fat

FoS

It means exactly what I said: I don't think we should be outing power roles unless we need to, such as in the case of them getting close to a lynch. This keeps scum from getting more information about other power roles. Less information provided to scum is more beneficial to the town imo, especially so early in the game. A second thought: you yourself reborn have admitted/claimed that you believed LF could possibly be scum, so who is to say that the information he provides is truthful? I personally don't think is is scum as of now, but I find it interesting that you are willing to acquire information from someone you feel may be scum and trust it as a reliable way to clear another player.

If LF confirms someone it could mean they get killed by mafia sooner...

But if LF dies before revealing his innocent, then his investigation is lost. Which is much worse, IMO.

I am not understanding this, EK. Are you saying that LF should have revealed his innocent, or are you saying he shouldn't? The second paragraph makes it seem like you believe threat of LF being killed before his investigation is revealed is a strong possibility. This seems to come out of left field, and makes me wonder whether or not you also have information that you are trying to hide. Don't you think that if LF got close to being lynched he would give the town the information?

Interesting point, and as I've said I would be happy lynching EK, but I think you could be reading too much into this.

That is always a possibility, but I thought I would point it out.

EK
Xtoxm/Rock
I've no idea for the third one. STD would be a gut feeling one but I ignore gut feelings and "too townie" isn't good reasoning so... I guess kloud could be scum, or kmd.

But today, I want EK or the lovers, barring critical information.

I think KMD addresses this later on page 52, but if you are guessing that kmd could be scum to the point that he has made your possible top 3 choice list, then why would you give him your invention?

If you count, it's more like top 2, then everyone who isn't on my not lynch list. I.e. you and kmd have been mostly null up till this point. I gave kmd my invention because the town suggested it. At least, I think it was RF's idea and others backed her. Plus, the invention served basically to confirm me. Anything else it does is just a bonus. If he's scum, we lose nothing, if he's town, we gain something (although I don't know what that is).

[joke] Sorry, I am not capable of counting. [/joke] In all seriousness, though, I understand your point. The fact that you keep adding kmd's name into the possible scum equation just made me feel I should at least ask about it, as you did not respond to the question the first time I believe, and I wanted to clarify.

EK
Xtoxm/Rock
I've no idea for the third one. STD would be a gut feeling one but I ignore gut feelings and "too townie" isn't good reasoning so... I

guess

kloud could be scum, or kmd.

But today, I want EK or the lovers, barring critical information.

Interesting that you have the same gut feeling on kloud and STD.

I ignore gut feelings, which is why I don't want to commit on scum number 3 just yet.

Ok.

Mine would be GW STD Kloud. Mainly from thinking just about everyone else is town.

Although I can see LF being scum. But that shouldn't be explored yet anyway.

Why STD?

I have a nagging feeling too,

but I think I'm just wary of him being scum and playing a great game. My reason tells me he's town though.

LF I can see as scum too, but you're right about us not talking about him yet.

Interesting. In my opinion, guessing and/or having nagging feelings about something indicates that a gut feeling is involved. You "guessed" that either me, STD, or KMD could be scum, you then claim that you ignore gut your gut feelings, but then follow this post up with saying that you have nagging feelings about STD.

I can understand separating players between those who you feel are most likely town and those you are unsure of, for I have done and am still doing the same as well. What struck me as funny was the phrasing of these three posts, as they seem to not be cohesive. Just thought I would point that out.

Of course a gut feeling is there, but I'm ignoring it, which is why I'm not going after or voting for yourself, STD, or LF based on a nagging doubt. When I mentioned the nagging feelings to.. Xtoxm I think? He had just said that he was worried about STD because he seemed able to act really pro-town as scum. I admitted that I was wary of this, but that it wasn't an argument for STD's lynch - if STD is scum he will have to slip or we will have to get some info on him before we can talk about lynching him.

Fair enough. As I said, I just didn't like the phrasing of the posts, and this is what drove me to commenting on them. I will address this a little more later, but right now I am in a hurry.

It's interesting to see the similarities these lists of 3 have.

I agree. Kloud and STD showed up on mine, reborn's, and Xtoxm's.

Rock is still scum though.

This

is

interesting, isn't it? The fact that five people have almost identical suspect lists without much reasoning besides "everyone else seems to be town" or "all I have to go on right now are gut feelings" is slightly alarming. I can't help but consider the possibility that at least one of you simply are trying to blend in with a group opinion.

I've explained already about this. There are only so many people who aren't in the "not lynch" category. The "not lynch" category is probably pretty similar for most people, leaving large overlap for the top 3 scummy people.

For me, I have the following list

Not Lynch
Reborn
LF
IG
KMD (Not lynch today - also null)

Null
Xtoxm
Kloud
GW
RF
STD

Scummiest
EK
Rock

For Xtoxm, he's eliminating himself and Rock from the list, so he has even fewer people to choose from.

I understand this, but the fact that most of the lists are arranged in an almost identical order is what stands out the most. Sure, we are limited in information as of right now, and the information we do have has contributed to separating power roles from those that are still unconfirmed, but an identical list from five or so people raises a red flag, for as I have already said, it makes me wonder whether or not someone is just trying to blend in here.

More to come later.

[Xtoxm]

I don't see why Rock is being found scummy. He's a newbie who's flaked, and what he did say I didn't exactly find scummy.

Vote Kloud

I get the feeling he's just hitching on to what Kmd/Reborn has said in attempt to get a double mislynch without looking like he's fully backing it.

[reborn537]

It means exactly what I said: I don't think we should be outing power roles unless we need to, such as in the case of them getting close to a lynch. This keeps scum from getting more information about other power roles. Less information provided to scum is more beneficial to the town imo, especially so early in the game. A second thought: you yourself reborn have admitted/claimed that you believed LF could possibly be scum, so who is to say that the information he provides is truthful? I personally don't think is is scum as of now, but I find it interesting that you are willing to acquire information from someone you feel may be scum and trust it as a reliable way to clear another player.

If Llama is lying then his information will give us a chance of catching scum. For example, if I'm scum, my information has told you that kmd AND me are both scum. If I'm town, my information has told you that I am an inventor and kmd has a special ability tomorrow night. This is an example of information that only helps the town.

Llama's information clears someone if he is telling the truth, and that is important because cleared people form pro-town voting blocks which are extremely useful. It also helps us to further evaluate whether his claim is true or not.

IG's information is the least important, but seeing as we know his ability, we might as well know who he thinks is useful to save.

All claimed power roles need to claim information, because we lose nothing from it, and I'm sick of repeating this. We

only gain

from it.

If you're scum this could be interesting because you're protecting the claimed power roles for no reason. Makes me think you could be scum with Llama.

[reborn537]

I don't see why Rock is being found scummy. He's a newbie who's flaked, and what he did say I didn't exactly find scummy.

Vote Kloud

I get the feeling he's just hitching on to what Kmd/Reborn has said in attempt to get a double mislynch without looking like he's fully backing it.

I call this OMGUS once-removed.

[RestFermata]

Xtoxm doesn't seem to get the fact that players sometimes disagree with him without being scum.

Reborn, I agree. The scum already know who is not scum with them. So how is confirming a player as town helping the mafia?

[Xtoxm]

It's not fucking omgus, and if you think it is then you don't know much about mafia.

[reborn537]

Xtoxm doesn't seem to get the fact that players sometimes disagree with him without being scum.

QFT

[reborn537]

It's not fucking omgus, and if you think it is then you don't know much about mafia.

No it's not. It's something new, called omgus once-removed - it's where you vote for someone based on the fact that they're voting for your lover.

[reborn537]

Reborn, I agree. The scum already know who is not scum with them. So how is confirming a player as town helping the mafia?

Brilliantly put.

[Xtoxm]

You really suck

[reborn537]

You really suck

Only on weekends.

[Xtoxm]

If Llama is lying then his information will give us a chance of catching scum. For example, if I'm scum, my information has told you that kmd AND me are both scum. If I'm town, my information has told you that I am an inventor and kmd has a special ability tomorrow night. This is an example of information that only helps the town.

No, you could be a scum Inventor.

But that would be revealed on death anyway, so it wouldn't matter.

[Kmd4390]

I am becoming increasingly sure of a GW/RF/Dragon scum setup.

You forgot Rock.

I still feel that BG/Rock are scum.

You have my attention.

This

is

interesting, isn't it? The fact that five people have almost identical suspect lists without much reasoning besides "everyone else seems to be town" or "all I have to go on right now are gut feelings" is slightly alarming. I can't help but consider the possibility that at least one of you simply are trying to blend in with a group opinion.

Well, I know myself to be town and I know that Reborn at least is an inventor. I also believe Xtoxm to be town (I doubt very seriously that both lovers are scum). Who were the other two that put you and STD on lists?

I was thinking that maybe we should see where these gut feelings are coming from. Maybe we should look into Kloud and STD.

I agree that the lovers contain a scum, but unlike you I think lynching them today is fine.

Up for a Rock lynch today?

Plus, the invention served basically to confirm me. Anything else it does is just a bonus.

If he's scum, we lose nothing

, if he's town, we gain something (although I don't know what that is).

I don't like the bolded part. Do NOT give any inventions to anyone who you are suspicious of in this game. You don't know what your inventions will do. They most likely will be dangerous if they end up in the hands of scum.

I don't see why Rock is being found scummy. He's a newbie who's flaked, and what he did say I didn't exactly find scummy.

Vote Kloud

I get the feeling he's just hitching on to what Kmd/Reborn has said in attempt to get a double mislynch without looking like he's fully backing it.

What about BG gave you such a strong town read? I think you answered this earlier but I couldn't find it last night(RL night, not game night).

It means exactly what I said: I don't think we should be outing power roles unless we need to, such as in the case of them getting close to a lynch. This keeps scum from getting more information about other power roles. Less information provided to scum is more beneficial to the town imo, especially so early in the game. A second thought: you yourself reborn have admitted/claimed that you believed LF could possibly be scum, so who is to say that the information he provides is truthful? I personally don't think is is scum as of now, but I find it interesting that you are willing to acquire information from someone you feel may be scum and trust it as a reliable way to clear another player.

If Llama is lying then his information will give us a chance of catching scum. For example, if I'm scum, my information has told you that kmd AND me are both scum. If I'm town, my information has told you that I am an inventor and kmd has a special ability tomorrow night. This is an example of information that only helps the town.

Llama's information clears someone if he is telling the truth, and that is important because cleared people form pro-town voting blocks which are extremely useful. It also helps us to further evaluate whether his claim is true or not.

IG's information is the least important, but seeing as we know his ability, we might as well know who he thinks is useful to save.

All claimed power roles need to claim information, because we lose nothing from it, and I'm sick of repeating this. We

only gain

from it.

If you're scum this could be interesting because you're protecting the claimed power roles for no reason. Makes me think you could be scum with Llama.

Llama should NOT tell us who is confirmed yet. The scum will want to NK some one who we aren't going to lynch. The scum gain more from knowing this than we do at this point. If llama or his confirmed town are about to be lynched, that is when he should tell us his information.
IG should NOT be telling us who he is protecting. We have no reason to know.

Reborn, I agree. The scum already know who is not scum with them. So how is confirming a player as town helping the mafia?

It's not knowing who is town that benefits them. It's knowing who the town knows is town that benefits them . (Sorry if that is confusing.) If they know that we have a confirmed town, they know we won't lynch this player, guess where their NK goes? Confirming townies does help us but, right now, we don't need to know. As I said already, llama can let us know if we are about to mislynch this person.

[kloud1516]

I don't see why Rock is being found scummy. He's a newbie who's flaked, and what he did say I didn't exactly find scummy.

Vote Kloud

I get the feeling he's just hitching on to what Kmd/Reborn has said in attempt to get a double mislynch without looking like he's fully backing it.

So now you are trying to play BGs actions off as newbie faults? You claimed to have played other games with her, so she couldn't be that new.

Secondly, you feel that I am hitching of what KMD and Reborn have said? Where is this coming from? I provided a case against BG back in 227, so I feel that this your statement is utterly flawed. You say that I am trying to get another mislynch without fully backing it, and yet I fully backed it yesterday. The only reason I haven't voted yet was because, as I explained above, I would rather begin looking at other players now instead of having tunnel vision and concentrating solely on Rock. Is this what you are suggesting that I do, xtoxm; completely disregard anything that I deem noteworthy until my top suspect is lynched?

I think it is almost comical that you are willing to vote for me on the basis of something like this without citing any examples, and at the same time ignore things like this:

And Kmd, you think BG is scum. Fair enough. I accept this.

What about your other suspects? Who do you think she is scum with?

What are you opinions on GW?

Why is it not better to go for someone else today? Even if she's scum, she's not the only scum.

RF, STD, Kloud. They are more gut feelings than anything though.
As for GW, I was thinking town because GW saw the connection between you and BG which I saw as genuine scum hunting.
I feel very strongly that Rock is scum.
Everyone else, I am too unsure right now.

EK
Xtoxm/Rock
I've no idea for the third one. STD would be a gut feeling one but I ignore gut feelings and "too townie" isn't good reasoning so... I guess kloud could be scum, or kmd.

But today, I want EK or the lovers, barring critical information.

Ok.

Mine would be GW STD Kloud. Mainly from thinking just about everyone else is town.

Although I can see LF being scum. But that shouldn't be explored yet anyway.

Ok, I'm not giving out my night action. Something that stuck out to me:

To expand - finding out IG's target could tell us who the mafia are looking to kill, and then we can begin to explore our motives. I much prefer the psycological and logical side of the game rather than just guessing and almost handicapping ourselves by not revealing the info.

How is finding out my target going to tell us who the mafia are looking to kill? If I was a doctor then fair enough, because there was no kill, but I'm a bodyguard. If I die it's either because I picked the right person or the mafia wanted me dead.

It's interesting to see the similarities these lists of 3 have.

And yet you accuse me of "hitching" onto KMD and reborn's ideas. Of course, should anyone be asked about their list now, the separation of claimed and unclaimed will most likely be the reason for suspecting someone, making it difficult to accuse anyone of being suspicious for their lists. Even so, the "oh look, we have the same suspects!" and comments of that nature continue to stand out, which is what I was trying to get at in my response to reborn earlier. This is EXACTLY what I was getting at: I felt that, despite my suspicions of the lovers, it will be more beneficial to the town for me to begin looking at others. In doing so, I would be able to actually build cases based off of information provided in the thread rather than grouping the unclaimed together as the suspect list. Sure dividing the claimed from the unclaimed will help in a sense, but then proceeding to accuse someone of being suspicious simply because he/she is not one of the claimed players is not going to help the town much either, as it allows scum to jump all over the chance to vote for players with minimal/no reasoning for doing so.

You completely neglecting this trend makes me feel that I put a little too much faith in you Day 1 when I said you would be helpful later on. You are employing a distorted "feeling" as a means of finding someone suspicious, finding one suspicious for an action that others seem to be prominently expressing. Feelings can only get the town so far, and that is where actual cases that are logical and not fallacious become pivotal for scum hunting.

[elvis_knits]

Herbert. OMG. lol.

The only thing I can see why herbert would be lovers with bonnie is if herbert can't wait to molest her unborn child... But why Bonnie would return the feeling, I have no idea. The whole thing is really weird.

Although, I'm not sure how Herbert would go about killing if he was scum. Beat with his walker? I don't think he has the strength.

One thing I was wodnering, it sounded like xtoxm didn't know that BG's character was Bonnie? Is that true? You were not given the character name of the other? Is that normal?

Also, I wish xtoxm would stop voting blindly and then changing his mind for no reason... I don't like how he votes people without writing any reasons and then unvotes saying they are starting to convince them he's town (again, with no reasons). I think it's just confusing.

I am also a little confused why I showed up on so many scum lists today. I could have easily been lynched yesterday, so if all those people thought I was scum, then they should have kept voting me. Coming back to me today with basically no reason (you didn't like my predecessor, who did nothing but flake), seems really weird.

All in all, I think we really need to get into the habit of making cases (sorry xtoxm ). Otherwise it's too easy for scum to throw BS around and confuse us. I am going to go write a post on my thoughts on some people, with hopefully some meatiness. Mmm, meaty.

[Xtoxm]

So now you are trying to play BGs actions off as newbie faults? You claimed to have played other games with her, so she couldn't be that new.

I said Rock, not BG.

Most of the rest of your post doesn't seem to make any sense in relation to what I said.

[kloud1516]

This

is

interesting, isn't it? The fact that five people have almost identical suspect lists without much reasoning besides "everyone else seems to be town" or "all I have to go on right now are gut feelings" is slightly alarming. I can't help but consider the possibility that at least one of you simply are trying to blend in with a group opinion.

Well, I know myself to be town and I know that Reborn at least is an inventor. I also believe Xtoxm to be town (I doubt very seriously that both lovers are scum). Who were the other two that put you and STD on lists?

Godot expressed that his suspicions were similar to yours, which I quoted in my response to xtoxm. I had thought that GW's list of suspects was similar, but I was mistaken. He says that STD could be scum, but other than that his list does not parallel the first suspect lists as others seem to do.

It means exactly what I said: I don't think we should be outing power roles unless we need to, such as in the case of them getting close to a lynch. This keeps scum from getting more information about other power roles. Less information provided to scum is more beneficial to the town imo, especially so early in the game. A second thought: you yourself reborn have admitted/claimed that you believed LF could possibly be scum, so who is to say that the information he provides is truthful? I personally don't think is is scum as of now, but I find it interesting that you are willing to acquire information from someone you feel may be scum and trust it as a reliable way to clear another player.

If Llama is lying then his information will give us a chance of catching scum. For example, if I'm scum, my information has told you that kmd AND me are both scum. If I'm town, my information has told you that I am an inventor and kmd has a special ability tomorrow night. This is an example of information that only helps the town.

Llama's information clears someone if he is telling the truth, and that is important because cleared people form pro-town voting blocks which are extremely useful. It also helps us to further evaluate whether his claim is true or not.

IG's information is the least important, but seeing as we know his ability, we might as well know who he thinks is useful to save.

All claimed power roles need to claim information, because we lose nothing from it, and I'm sick of repeating this. We

only gain

from it.

If you're scum this could be interesting because you're protecting the claimed power roles for no reason. Makes me think you could be scum with Llama.

Llama should NOT tell us who is confirmed yet. The scum will want to NK some one who we aren't going to lynch. The scum gain more from knowing this than we do at this point. If llama or his confirmed town are about to be lynched, that is when he should tell us his information.
IG should NOT be telling us who he is protecting. We have no reason to know.

^^^ This. Right here. Read it. QFT. ^^^

[Kmd4390]

All in all, I think we really need to get into the habit of making cases (sorry xtoxm ). Otherwise it's too easy for scum to throw BS around and confuse us. I am going to go write a post on my thoughts on some people, with hopefully some meatiness. Mmm, meaty.

That is interesting because BG is where I am getting most of the scum read from.
She...
-bandwagoned heavily
-simply restated what everyone said without adding her own new content
-claimed a lot earlier than she needed to

Rock's inactivity at night could either mean avoiding it or really wasn't around. It's nearly impossible to figure out which.

I'm thinking that Rock really wasn't around for the night because he still isn't here.
Other than that, this was, and still is, my case.

[kloud1516]

So now you are trying to play BGs actions off as newbie faults? You claimed to have played other games with her, so she couldn't be that new.

I said Rock, not BG.

Most of the rest of your post doesn't seem to make any sense in relation to what I said.

1) My mistake.

2) It does relate to your accusation. You claim that I am hitching off the ideas/opinions of reborn and KMD, yet you completely ignore others who seem to be posting the exact same suspect list without any information. I said that this is why I felt it would be beneficial to actually begin making cases off of information in the thread as opposed to this list, for speculation and hunches will only get the town so far. I then went on and elaborated on why I thought your argument was fallacious.