Open 570: Making Friends and Enemies (Mafia Wins!)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

To Dave,

896 might have been in reply to you but it's not

because

of you that my vote changed.

In 896, I said '

it

feels genuine.' 'It' was in reference to Mala's 891. Mala's 891 is what made me re-evaluate my read on her and consequently join the NPAU wagon.

You will also notice that my 898 is in direct response to Mala. Again, not related to anything you have done.

So, tell me again. How do you get credit for me joining the NPAU wagon?

Wait what? So you didn't pause on NPAU because you thought he might be Mason? You've now changed that to you paused on NPAU because of my willingness to join his wagon???

Which is it?

You're also acting like I had no previous scum-read on NPAU and joined his wagon with no reasoning. This is a gross misrepresentation on your part.

Just in case you missed them.

Why did you not follow up on the NPAU wagon you disliked so much at start of D2?

Nice dodge!!

When you said you were watching the thread you implied this was in case somebody started a wagon you deemed suitable to join. I'm asking you why you thought somebody else could create a wagon in 10 hours but you claimed that you didn't have enough time yourself to create your own wagon?

Do you see this contradiction?

1257 does not answer the contradiction.

Read the question. Try again.

I concede the point on you providing reasoning for being on the NPAU wagon. Very little reasoning, but still reasoning.

With love,

BBT.

[goodmorning]

Unless your point is that bbt's bullshit don't make dave scum, in which case I fully agree.

That's definitely not how I'd play it as any alignment, and the above was precisely my point.

Hmmmmm.

[goodmorning]

Oh, @Toffee: Yes he does.

[Wisdom]

Meh, I've given plenty of reasoning. It's strange you have fixated on those reasons.

I should warn you I'm very aware of my own meta.

Trying to use meta to read me will not work.

I'm not fixated on anything. Every point you've made has been shot down. Your "case" is essentially a single moment that you keep spamming about and don't accept any defence about it, be it from dave or other players. So now I find it more interesting finding scum traits in your posts rather than caring about convincing you. Since you don't care to be convinced.

Meta is undodgeable. That's what I also say to people to avoid being meta'd sometimes, but ultimately it always works.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm unmetable (if that's not a word, it should be)

I have just reposted several points from my case that have yet to be answered at the top of this page.

You're desperate to discredit me. It's flattering, but distracting.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wisdom, what do you make of Dave changing his reasoning for his hesitation about the NPAU wagon?

[Wisdom]

Eh, not really. All of these "points" are the same thing over and over, which dave has provided more than enough defence already. Again, you don't have a case.

pedit: Most likely, he looked back and remembered that your vote was also a factor in his hesitating.

[davesaz]

1257 does not answer the contradiction.

Read the question. Try again.

I concede the point on you providing reasoning for being on the NPAU wagon. Very little reasoning, but still reasoning.

Point out two things which are mutually exclusive. You can't have a contradiction without it.

pedit: I needed to check something, does not imply that thinking about that something is what made me think I needed to check. i.e. Wisdom is correct.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What gave me pause on NPAU?

Your easy willingness to switch to the wagon

, that's what. I expected there to be fight. I read that willingness as scum, and when you changed to GM it just reinforced scum.

This looks like a singular reason to me. Not an additional reason.

[davesaz]

There were also other things that made me want to check. I'm not going to point those out, for the obvious reason.

[davesaz]

Or more precisely, other things which told me

what

to check.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Point out two things which are mutually exclusive. You can't have a contradiction without it.

pedit: I needed to check something, does not imply that thinking about that something is what made me think I needed to check. i.e. Wisdom is correct.

You said you didn't have enough time to push a wagon on one of your scum-reads. You had 2 days.

You then said you would watch the thread in case a wagon popped up that you deemed suitable. There was 10 hours left.

Tell me, how could someone create a wagon in 10 hours if you couldn't in 2 days?

[davesaz]

How many days did it take for the existing wagon to develop?
You think I'm arrogant enough to expect that I can singlehandedly pick a dark horse and push a wagon?
No, I had no reasonable expectation of certainty that anyone could do it, in any length of time.

I was willing to switch if it did happen. Where does that say I expected it to happen.

Expecting it to not happen is not mutually exclusive with wanting it to happen, and that is not mutually exclusive with being willing to switch if it does happen.
You are comparing apples to oranges, there can be no contradiction in that kind of comparison.

[Wisdom]

Unofficial VC:

dave (2) - BBT, Huntress
BBT (2) - dave, Wisdom
josh (1) - Shinobi
hephaestus (1) - josh


While we wait for Peabody, BBT votes are welcome.

josh, what did you think of my hephaestus townread?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I can't believe scum haven't jumped on this Dave wagon yet...

Oh wait...

They're trying to start a counter-wagon.

That's right.

[davesaz]

Thanks for the unofficial count, Wisdom.

I really need to consider not tunneling back. At a minimum there is another scum to catch, and worst case if BBT goes off as either alignment then my scum read on him becomes a little weaker and maybe we need to find two.

There is a technique in submarine hunting where you drop a torpedo in the water and observe how all your tracks maneuver as a result. Same thing goes for scum hunting, and that means now is a good time to put in some quality analysis of everyone else.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Dave, can you respond to 1275 please

[Wisdom]

If I was Dave I would have stopped responding to you a long time ago

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But you're not.

I still have outstanding questions.

[Wisdom]

No, you still have nada

[Huntress]

Too many posts.

I'm going to try to sort out all the talk about Dave and Josh tomorrow to see if it affects my read on them and their accusers. I also need to take a good look at GM, Peabody and Heph as I haven't done that yet. Shinobi has been looking scummier toDay but I still think uctriton is the most likely of the two to be scum.

[Wisdom]

Shinobi has been looking scummier toDay

Why is that?

[Malakittens]

BBT threatening to replace out because he wasn't being listened to feels.. fake....? I guess you can call it. I remember skimming a scum game and he did the same/similar thing. Part of me wants to vote BBT, but then parts of me thinks that he's been townie at times so as I'm still on vacation and don't want to throw a vote down I'm going to hold off.

Wisdom/Huntress/GM are still up on my high town list.
I still wouldn't mind lynching Heph.
Josh and peabody or even dave I wouldn't mind voting either at this stage.

I need to reread some of Scripten's games. I think he might have been killed off due to being familiar with certain players and I want to draw that connection.

(so glad that i decided to copy and paste this before tying to send as it kicked me off and ate the post. >.>)

Wifi

[Malakittens]

;; Dave & BBT are the only two major connections that are common from 2/3, josh from 1/3.

[Josh_B]

A game of repeat for Wisdom
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=58856
Scum walked away with a very strong victory.

Shinobi, the case is [whiney] "You didn't do enough to stop the lynch on town."
It is my actions and Dave's actions that are different. Not your actions and BBT's actions.

I mean it's clear. Nobody listened to me. (like scripten, who made a further case on NPAU being scum)
And the people that did listen didn't give a shit. (like Mala, who called me town for pointing out that NPAU could be town, but voted him anyways)