Open 552 - Hope Plus One (GAME OVER) Town wins

[Sakura Hana]

If you're scared of scum QHing you why not start claiming then?

[Lemniscate]

If you're scared of scum QHing you why not start claiming then?

Because me claiming may not be the most pro-town thing to do right now.

Sakura, you're not making sense. Why would you comment on me being possibly quick lynched (and not taking your vote off on top of it), but not on the appearing contradiction I pointed out in your logic? Do you even think I'm scum, or are you voting me because it's easy?

[Sakura Hana]

I think you're scum obviously. And i have no issue with scum QHing you if they want to make themselves be that obvious as there's only 1 left, if you're scared then go ahead and claim.

[Lemniscate]

I think you're scum obviously. And i have no issue with scum QHing you if they want to make themselves be that obvious as there's only 1 left, if you're scared then go ahead and claim.

This is the very AtF I stated would happen before, like if they lynch me right now, they have something to fear being quick lynched tomorrow. You're not going to quick lynch tomorrow based off of a bad hammer today and risk putting yourselves in Ly-Lo all due to a hammer; That's bad town play. I already explained that though, so it's making me upset that you don't appear to be reading my posts.

[Sakura Hana]

Because town isn't going to quickhammer you before you claim, scum will.

[Zephyrus]

Are you scum Lemniscate? Your predecessor has put you in a bad spot when you filled in. Your at L-1 and you're the last in your scum group

[uctriton00]

Lemniscate how caught up are you

[Sakura Hana]

btw if Lemniscate claims anything other than doctor we're lynching her.
If lemniscate doesn't claim, we're lynching her.

At this point is obvious that lemniscate is either Doctor or scum preparing up a fake claim. And if i can see that, scum certainly can see it too.

[Zephyrus]

If you're scared of scum QHing you why not start claiming then?

Because me claiming may not be the most pro-town thing to do right now.

Possible doc?

[Dr Pants]

no, doesn't make sense. if lemniscate is a doc then she wouldn't make a statement like that, a doc would want scum to think they are VT

[Dr Pants]

course at this point my opinion means about as much as a wet noodle in a better metaphor for something

[Dr Pants]

my literary skills abound

[Sakura Hana]

If she's the real doc she made her life harder for dropping that line that makes her stand out as a PR, if she's scum it's suicide to fake claim doc because with 1 scum left and 2 mislynches left town auto wins.

[Sakura Hana]

Also her flailing and desperation look like scum caught for the wrong reasons.

[Baezu]

Vote Count 4.02

(L-1)

Lemniscate: (3) Dr Pants, Zephyrus, Sakura Hana
Dr Pants: (1) BoroPhil

Not Voting: uctriton00, Lemniscate, Lia

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-05-09 16:30:00)

Mod Notes:
None

[/area]

[BoroPhil]

yeah the doc should certainly claim before lylo as a counter claim would be impossible and they would be conftown. If it is Lem, and they are claiming, then it's pretty certain they are the last doc.

If Lem is the doc, also at L-1, and a pretty easy mislynch, good chance scum is Pants or Zeph?

I'm telling you - it's Pants.

[Sakura Hana]

My guess is that she isn't claiming because she's the last scum and as I said a VT claim means she dies and a doc claim means we autowin if she's scum, her posts towards me look like scum caught for the wrong reasons, but if i am wrong and she's the real doc i have no problem lynching Pants.

[Sakura Hana]

It's obvious town isn't going to QH her so i don't see why she thinks town would be stupid enough to QH her without a claim and leave us in a LyLo position.

[BoroPhil]

she certainly needs to claim.

[uctriton00]

Prod for tomorrow

[Dr Pants]

same. guess its waiting game till lem claims

[uctriton00]

lemniscate are you an alt

[Lia]

Review of Uctriton:

Day 1

he said nothing about any of the other players, his only content being a game plan that had no chance of working.

Day 2

No content for the first 3 days.

339 Says he personally didn't get any kind of alignment tell out of Neil's pre-flip post but thought it was suspicious enough to have a wagon put on him and was "worthy of conversation". If it was a null tell why was it suspicious? And why encourage talk about it?

There's something in Beli's ISO where he is urging Neil to protect the cop.

Let's ditch aside the doctor-stay, doctor-switch theory for a second, and look at what Beli is saying. Beli says

Neil, this means if you're not fakeclaiming and you protected Tricks last night, you can sing to the heavens how you're not going to protect him, but do it anyways. If Tricks dies tonight, I'm blaming you.

There's a difference. There's, "neil do the same thing you've been doing", and then there's "neil, put it on tricks". Everyone (except Sakura) is urging that nobody switch their night actions. However, Beli isn't

exactly

saying that. Here he's saying, "neil, move to Tricks" which means "other doc, move to someone else".

If neil is fake scum doc, this means Beli has effectively *pushed* the other docs off of Trickster, leaving him open for a kill.

This was the post that first made me suspect triton. He is claiming that Beli told Neil to "move to Tricks", with the effect of pushing the other docs off him, when Beli was saying quite the opposite. He was insisting that if he protected Neil he should stay

on

him. Telling him not to switch. If you read the rest of 741, you will see Beli is very clear that he does

not

want the docs to switch. Triton doesn't vote Beli at this point but the misrep leads Trickster to vote that way.

In view of the above I didn't like the wording of 854.

Day 3

Was it Lia? who said my drive against Beli is bad? If so I think Lia is cleared as town as I feel pretty damn bad for doubting Beli's claim.

This is a poor reason for clearing someone as town and it feels like buddying. As did 906. The post he highlighted there was nothing special.

1. The disagreeing with Trick's plan, well, KB/Beli disagreed too, so I'm null on using that as a read. Although there is a part where Shadi does say Trick is town. Whoever replaces Shadi is going to have to figure out how to explain that one.

How could a replacement explain that? And wasn't Trickster more or less confirmed as town by then?


All this has to be balanced against his consistent push on Moonlight so I'm putting him under Zeph on the list; Shadi/Lem still being at the top.

[uctriton00]

I can answer most of these

I didn't get an alignment tell out of it first because my gut reaction was damn, a speed lynch was probably bad times and scum driven. But as other people pointed out, how can someone know absolutely for sure that it was a mislynch? So that was something to think about, and we should see what was up behind that. That's my logic there.

Second thing you're talking about, was the whole craphat that happened that day. This is the timeline I saw:
1. Neil = I'm doc, I'm not protecting Trickster
2. Beli = Neil, put it on Trickster.
I was coming from a Neil scum prospective. Neil's statement pushed the doctors both onto Trickster, creating a collision. Beli then says no, you put it on Trickster. With scum neil, that means both doctors are off of Trickster, and Trickster is open. I came up with the logic in my head that, well damn, could Beli be a Neil scum teammate?
I get what you're saying that town Beli could be encouraging Neil to repeat the Day 1 action which is the pro-town part, but I was coming from the scum Neil perspective, which ruined my view on Beli and making him scum. There's holes in that logic but that's where I came from.

I also didn't like the ATE. I'm used to using ATE to plead and fight from my position and attack others, but I saw Beli being very pedantic and it upset me, and because it was me thinking Beli was scum, I voted him. I shouldn't use ATE reads as much anymore, but I was honestly disturbed at the pedanticness. "Be a town leader!" doesn't apply in mafia when we're nowhere near a lock-game scenario at that point.

Honest to goodness I have put no work into reading you really and all I got from scrolling through your ISO was that you're pointing the finger at me. I'd expect scum to buddy me for a bad read, but you question my bad read. It's a coin flip in my head if you're town attacking town or you're scum buddying someone who blew a read, so I went with the former. I should really put more work into your ISO but I just end up scrolling past half-heartedly and not seeing anything suspicious mostly because nobody else suspects you, and because I think we are good with Shadi/Lem and Dr Pants.

Saying "whoever replaces shadi will have to explain" is dumb because I never re-read my predecessors so I take that back. There are others who re-read predecessors but I don't because there's no point IMO.

[Zephyrus]

Mod prod?

done