Cowboy Bebop Remix [Endgame]

[GreyICE]

Oh for fucks sake, this is Jahudo's first post in the thread. I have a wallpost incoming, but lets just highlight this:

So Vi we meet again. Wait a second, Vi... vi.. vicious !!!

Jahudo... that's quite the motherfucking coincidence.

[Antitown]

GREYICE TELL ME WHO TO VOTE I'M SO LOST NOW!

Jahudo miller claim seems more likely town than scum.
Toasty seems scummy but claim and recent posts maybe seem more town.
CES is playing to be unreadable but comes out of the woodwork to go apeshit on jahudo doesn't seem to make sense if CES-scum/Jahudo-town.

OMG WHAT IF NONE OF THEM ARE SCUM?

And what, scum are LLD and Antihero?

We're probably fucked.

Wait, LLD and I are on the scumlist above AGM and kdub?

What are you smoking, because I want some.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

You sure do like to deflect, aye?

If anything I was hoping to have more suspicion on me. I try to catch scum while looking like a bad NK target, which makes me live until endgame where I catch more scum. I play that way every single game. Nacho saying he had a case on me was good in my mind. I felt confident I could answer for myself and avoid getting mislynched, like usual.

Can you give me a reference for that?

[GreyICE]

GREYICE TELL ME WHO TO VOTE I'M SO LOST NOW!

Jahudo miller claim seems more likely town than scum.
Toasty seems scummy but claim and recent posts maybe seem more town.
CES is playing to be unreadable but comes out of the woodwork to go apeshit on jahudo doesn't seem to make sense if CES-scum/Jahudo-town.

OMG WHAT IF NONE OF THEM ARE SCUM?

And what, scum are LLD and Antihero?

We're probably fucked.

Wait, LLD and I are on the scumlist above AGM and kdub?

What are you smoking, because I want some.

No dude.
Top of my town list is LLD
You're THE entry under it.

If the two of you are scum together, we'd be fucked. Got it? Town could not

POSSIBLY

win. That being said, that is totally, utterly, 100% impossible, and I will just make chess's fish slapping picture my avatar if that is actually the case.

[GreyICE]

Lemme show you something

I usually see this in larger games, but it's a classic, classic maneuver I call the peony blossom (off an attack in a silly system called Exalted). It basically occurs when a wagon that most or all (in smaller games) of the scum team were on becomes totally, utterly non-viable in every single way (claim kills all hope of there being a lynch). It's the best sort of swarm behavior, because everyone acts independently.

Town, in this instance, reread with the knowledge that someone is confirmed town, and change their minds accordingly. Scum have a slightly different motivation. They want to encourage wagons on likely looking non-scum targets.

Lets examine the critical vote count, when I'm at L-1 (fate ISO #24)

Now Seraphim is not town, is not acting town, but to the scumteam, he's just another mislynch waiting to happen (weirdass BS did NOT occur yet). So for scum purposes, he's green.

Ladyλδ stated categorically I'm town. No explanation or questions. How the FUCK does scum LLD hammer me and have me flip town after that? It's not even possible, it's suicide. Ignoring everything else that LLD has done, the wagon on her that was clearly scum driven, the tunnel, the fact confirmed town nacho and me have a strong, strong townread on her, that should sell you on LLD town.

kdub states that he thinks I'm town. He's less certain, but again he'd have a lot of trouble moving towards me or hammering, and he questions the movement and votes quite heavily (and as we know, they were scum driven - Vi was VERY happy with my wagon).

UT - again, town read on him and AGM. Reckoner doesn't have the time for mafia and has been thinking of quitting, it's a null tell on his part. I'd say he actually would have it easier playing scum. And lets face it, the conclusion that the Toasty ISO is scummy is, well... pretty damn correct.

AT reads town.

Anyway, the peony blossom.
Critical Vote counts:

Spoiler:

1) Fate ISO #24 (GreyICE at L-1)

Jahudo (1):

Nachomamma

GreyICE

(6): ToastyToast, Rhinox,

Vi

, CogitoES,

Seraphim

,

UncertainKitten

ToastyToast (2): Untrod Tripod,

GreyICE

Untrod Tripod (2): Jahudo, Antitown

Seraphim

(3): Kdub, Ladyλδ,

Vi (0):
Jahudo (2):

Nachomamma

, CogitoES

GreyICE

(2): ToastyToast,

Seraphim

ToastyToast (3): Untrod Tripod,

GreyICE

,

Vi

Untrod Tripod (2): Jahudo, Antitown

Seraphim

(3): Kdub, Ladyλδ,

UncertainKitten

(L-4)
Not voting: Rhinox

Vi's toasty vote

Even by the standards of the very bad scum game Vi was playing, that was a miserable vote.

But anyway, votes (considering only non-confirmed):
Vi - moves to Toasty
CES - moves to Jahudo
Rhinox - moves to not voting
Toasty - stays fixed.

Spoiler:

Fate ISO #31 (Friday March 18th)

Vi

(2): Jahudo, Seraphim
Jahudo (2): Nachomamma, CogitoES

GreyICE

(1): ToastyToast
ToastyToast (2): Untrod Tripod, GreyICE
Untrod Tripod (1): Antitown

Seraphim

(3): Kdub, Ladyλδ, UncertainKitten (L-4)

Not voting: Rhinox

Fate ISO #32 (Sunday march 21st)

Vi

Vi

(3): Jahudo,

Seraphim

,

GreyICE

(L-4)
Jahudo (2):

Nachomamma

, CogitoES
Lady Lambdadelta (0):
GreyICE (1): ToastyToast
ToastyToast (1): Untrod Tripod
Untrod Tripod (1): Antitown

Seraphim

(3): Kdub, Ladyλδ,

UncertainKitten

(L-4)
Not voting: Rhinox

Fate ISO #33

Lynch

(Monday March 22nd)

Vi (3): Seraphim, GreyICE, Nachomamma
Jahudo (1): CogitoES
GreyICE (1): ToastyToast
ToastyToast (1): Untrod Tripod
Untrod Tripod (1): Antitown
Seraphim (7): Kdub, Ladyλδ, UncertainKitten, Vi, Toasty, Rhinox, Jahudo

Now what was happening in the thread?

DEADLINE

Not only was Vi wagon starting to take off, look who wanted a piece. Nacho was happy for Vi blood. LLD wanted Vi lynched 'next' and most certainly would have compromised on a Vi lynch at end of day. UK wan't overwhelmed with Vi either, and me and her were sparring over the vote change - it could have easily been a UK movement.

UK, Nacho, and LLD moving to Vi-wagon would have meant day 1 scum lynch on Vicious, thus enabling whatever BSery Seraphim did, AS WELL as costing the scum team a member on the first day.

That's a potential game ender right there. Certainly the scum team would be hard pressed to recover.

Last 4 votes on the wagon

Vi

, Toasty, Rhinox, Jahudo

I can assure you two of those are scum,

at least.

Of them, the overlap between my wagon and Seraphims:

Toasty, Rhinox, Vi

That's actually a viable scumteam tbh. I erase 60% of my town read I had on Rhinox, effective naoh.

Toasty is the WORST by far. His vote was sitting on me for zero reason, then he moved for not too much reason. Rhinox comes out looking pretty damn awful on VC, but reread says that he's not that bad at all. He didn't push any wagons short of seraphim, which is actually somewhat pro-town (believe it or not, not trying to lynch someone when you have no idea who scum is is an acceptable town-tell in my book).

CES comes out looking like the designated 'scum off the wagon.'

Seraphlynch is dumb.

Jahudo just looks like scum. If you close your eyes on power roles, claims, etc., and read the damn thread, he's scummy as all fucking hell.

AGM is like Fate, they love to mock me and tell me my scumreads are town for amazingly bad meta reasons. Because NO ONE on this planet has ever changed their scumgame up or something.

Conclusions in next post, this is too wallish.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

EBWOP: Hadn't noticed the new page. The deflection comment is about Jahudo's post.

Antitown's point is obviously that Jahudo, Toasty and me being town would imply AGM-Kdub as most likely scum as opposed to LLD and Antitown.

P.S. The Seraphlynch was dumb.

[GreyICE]

The Seraphlynch was dumb. We're in 100% agreement.

Unfortunately, you were voting Jahudo at the time. If you'd been voting Vi, frankly you'd be pretty town in my eyes (pushing a scum case over a non-scum one). Jahudo was just not going to happen though, and... why the fuck did you have such a strong town read on Vi anyway?

[GreyICE]

Okay, scumpair possibilities, in order.

First and Last VC of Day 2:

Vi

(6):

GreyICE,

LLD, Toasty, AntiTown, Kdub, Jahudo
Jahudo (2):

Vi

, CES
Lady Lambdadelta (0):

GreyICE (1)

: Rhinox

Toasty-CES

I'm fine with this one, but I'll be honest. Vi's treatment of CES still reminds me of town walking around a landmine. That being said, if Jahudo is town, and Toasty is scum today makes a fuckton of sense for scum CES. This entire game makes a fuckton of sense for scum CES.

Toasty-Jahudo

Feel this one less strongly after looking at VCs. But it makes Jahudo's refusal to hammer today make 100% sense.

Toasty-Rhinox

I admit to not having much of a town read on Rhinox anymore. Looking at the VC alone, it's really bad scum play.

And Vi chided me strongly for my Rhinox vote which, if we're assuming a 'don't bus, stick together' policy (which a massive unity between scumreads and votes is indicating),' well, that makes perfect sense. I mean what, I put Rhinox at L-6 at that point and Vi called me out? Could have been looking for another mislynch, but... I'd almost forgotten that.

That is just really odd. CES-Jahudo being town on town would be consistent with their level of play this game.

Jahudo - UT/AGM/Reckoner

This makes some serious sense if I'm totally honest. I have to many of my town reads out the window, but c'est la vie.

Jahudo-CES

I'll be honest. There's a strong sentiment in this town that CES should be some flavor of dead. If his play today was to come out and bus his buddy, that's psychotic. Not 'ballsy,' psychotic.

Toasty-Kdub or Jahudo-Kdub

Kdub honestly makes sense as the scum anchor of the Jahudo wagon for toasty partner, or with Jahudo and his activity level this game has been... non-optimal. We've all forgotten about him

I put this about where I put everything else not too much worth worrying about. If you slice and dice everyone else, look at him, I guess.

SCUM

Toasty
Jahudo
--------
CES
Rhinox
Kdub
AGM
--------
AntiTown
LLD

TOWN

Lines denote transition from strong to weak reads.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Jahudo was just not going to happen though, and... why the fuck did you have such a strong town read on Vi anyway?

I didn't?

[GreyICE]

Number of times you voted for Vi: Zero
Number of times your vote followed Vi's: Seraphim wagon, GreyICE wagon, Seraphim wagon part 2, Jahudo wagon day 2.

Yeah, I think if you didn't think Vi was town, you hid it damn well.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

My first vote was wholly bandwagonny in nature; got nothing to say about the second vote; I didn't join the second Seraphimwagon; I voted for Jahudo in my first post of Day 2 and that was a continuation from Day 1.

I wasn't following Vi.

[GreyICE]

CES, I think that you should battle this out day 3. Jahudo's play has been so epically terribly scummy that I'd almost rather lynch him than Toasty, but every bit of logical analysis I do says that Toasty is scum and needs to be the lynch today, because if he's town,

1) he's a shitty VT with a shitty bounty power (it's not even guarenteed to hit town, it's worse than mine ffs, and mine's a weak cop with upside)
2) his day 1 play was so bad and scummy that's its ridiculous
3) his remaining on me despite not thinking I was scum was so weird even Vi called him on it.
4) Vi's vote was so, so, so distancing/bussing if a Toasty wagon took off, and so not 'scum trying to push a case on a townie'
5) When Vi wagon started to get serious he found time to vote Seraphim.
6) ...

No, enough, he gets lynched today. You and Jahudo duke it out tomorrow,

[GreyICE]

And CES - you know why Toasty scum and Jahudo town looks really bad for you given today.

[Kdub]

CES:
OPINION ON TOASTY NAO PLZ.

I erase 60% of my town read I had on Rhinox, effective naoh.

OK, now you're just messing with me

Last 4 votes on the wagon
Vi, Toasty, Rhinox, Jahudo

I can assure you two of those are scum, at least.

Toasty-Rhinox was looking like a decent possibility to me before you declared Rhinox to be town. I'm still not seeing Jahudo-scum based on the risk/reward of the miller counterclaim/gambit thing with Vi.

Deadline is soon, why are people pulling their votes off Toasty and trying to start new wagons?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

CES, I think that you should battle this out day 3. Jahudo's play has been so epically terribly scummy that I'd almost rather lynch him than Toasty, but every bit of logical analysis I do says that Toasty is scum and needs to be the lynch today, because if he's town,

1) he's a shitty VT with a shitty bounty power (it's not even guarenteed to hit town, it's worse than mine ffs, and mine's a weak cop with upside)
2) his day 1 play was so bad and scummy that's its ridiculous
3) his remaining on me despite not thinking I was scum was so weird even Vi called him on it.
4) Vi's vote was so, so, so distancing/bussing if a Toasty wagon took off, and so not 'scum trying to push a case on a townie'
5) When Vi wagon started to get serious he found time to vote Seraphim.
6) ...

No, enough, he gets lynched today. You and Jahudo duke it out tomorrow,

This post is lacking a vote.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

CES:
OPINION ON TOASTY NAO PLZ.

Null read. I can't shake the feeling that he's just a newbie playing badly.

[GreyICE]

CES, I think that you should battle this out day 3. Jahudo's play has been so epically terribly scummy that I'd almost rather lynch him than Toasty, but every bit of logical analysis I do says that Toasty is scum and needs to be the lynch today, because if he's town,

1) he's a shitty VT with a shitty bounty power (it's not even guarenteed to hit town, it's worse than mine ffs, and mine's a weak cop with upside)
2) his day 1 play was so bad and scummy that's its ridiculous
3) his remaining on me despite not thinking I was scum was so weird even Vi called him on it.
4) Vi's vote was so, so, so distancing/bussing if a Toasty wagon took off, and so not 'scum trying to push a case on a townie'
5) When Vi wagon started to get serious he found time to vote Seraphim.
6) ...

No, enough, he gets lynched today. You and Jahudo duke it out tomorrow,

This post is lacking a vote.

You're right. That's really scummy of me!

Dun worry, vote will land before 11 PM EST

[GreyICE]

Fuck CES is so much more town than Jahudo. Read the ISOs people.

Vi was planning this miller bullshit from the first post. Breadcrumbing miller.

I love the question: "Did you really think I'd plan a complex miller breadcrumb as scum from the first thing day 1?"
The entire town: "Yes."

[ToastyToast]

CES, I think that you should battle this out day 3. Jahudo's play has been so epically terribly scummy that I'd almost rather lynch him than Toasty, but every bit of logical analysis I do says that Toasty is scum and needs to be the lynch today, because if he's town,

1) he's a shitty VT with a shitty bounty power (it's not even guarenteed to hit town, it's worse than mine ffs, and mine's a weak cop with upside)
2) his day 1 play was so bad and scummy that's its ridiculous
3) his remaining on me despite not thinking I was scum was so weird even Vi called him on it.
4) Vi's vote was so, so, so distancing/bussing if a Toasty wagon took off, and so not 'scum trying to push a case on a townie'
5) When Vi wagon started to get serious he found time to vote Seraphim.
6) ...

No, enough, he gets lynched today. You and Jahudo duke it out tomorrow,

1)Seriously, tired of hearing how "shitty" I am. If I have such a shitty bounty power, then save it for when my bounty reward comes up.
2)My day 1 play was so bad because, why, exactly? YOU CAME OFF AS SCUMMY AND YOU CANT DENY THAT. YOU GOT TO L FUCKING 1 FOR A REASON.
3) Your claim weakened my scum read on you, it did not destroy it
4)OR she could've been bringing up an issue in order to get me lynched the next day.
5)No, I voted for my other scum-read, because your lynch obviously wasn't going to happen.

I have nothing else to say. If you are so convinced I'm scum the hurry up and vote me. I won't let you get away with your "Oh, gee guys, I told you lynching him was a bad idea!" bullshit like you did with Seraphim.

Odds are my flip will at least clarify that about half of your scum-teams are impossible, so maybe people will stop listening to your shit.

[Jahudo]

Fuck CES is so much more town than Jahudo. Read the ISOs people.

Not a chance. What has he done that is pro-town? He ignores major wagons like the Toasty wagon, gives no reasoning for his votes, and generally tries to stay under the radar making it hard for people to read him.

I on the otherhand have explained all my votes with detailed cases, give opinions on all of the major wagons whether I like them or not, and why, and ask questions because I want to know everyone else's alignment.

[GreyICE]

Works for me.

Vote: ToastyToast

GreyICE (6): ToastyToast, Rhinox, Vi, CogitoES, Seraphim, UncertainKitten
There's at least 2 scum on this wagon

Seraphim (7): Kdub, Ladyλδ, UncertainKitten, Vi, Toasty, Rhinox, Jahudo
There's at least two and possibly three scum on this wagon, guaranteed.

Jahudo - CES has a strong town intent in many of his posts.

You exist to irritate me, WIFOM me, and generally drive me insane.

But toast needs to be dead. This day has stagnated partially because Toasty is so scummy and we're just not sure he's scum. The flip determine things.

If Toasty is town:

Jahudo Partners:

AGM
Kdub
?

[ToastyToast]

You exist to irritate me, WIFOM me, and generally drive me insane.
But toast needs to be dead. This day has stagnated partially because Toasty is so scummy and we're just not sure he's scum. The flip determine things.
If Toasty is town:

Jahudo Partners:

AGM
Kdub
?

The feelings mutual. And I'd just like to note that you were seeing me as town until AGM came in.

[ToastyToast]

my last opinion: lynch AGM/Reck/UT 2morrow

Of course, saying that will probably lead to some "OMG TOASTY SO STUPID LISTEN TO ME AGAIN INSTEAD"
I certainly have done a few scummy things, but you have blown them out of proportion--thats the only reason why I'm being lynched today. You are far more distracting, Mr. Pope. I'd compare you to Alexander VI. Vi pun not intended.

[Jahudo]

CES has a strong town intent in many of his posts.

Examples?

[GreyICE]

Toasty, I did my best not to push the town around today and left it so you'd get honest reads. I saved my analysis for the end of the day. You hit L-1 with very little input from me. That says to me that most of the town wants to lynch you. I blew nothing out of proportion. You've just played poorly. Assuming you're town and this isn't post-flip WIFOM, because that's always fun

I'll note Rhinox did much what you did in the CES-Vi blossom (unvoted with no vote). Your way was just scummier TBH.

Jahudo just actually hurts my eyes. Period.