Choose Carefully Mafia: (Game Over)

[armlx]

I'm not sure I understand how the mod agreeing with Armlx makes him town.

This. BM, elaborate?

[CarnCarn]

Yeah, this game seems large enough to have 2 scum teams.

The set up itself implies 2 scum groups. considering we have to choose which one is lynch vulnerable each day.....

Going ahead and clearing up any remaining confusion. You know for a fact that there is a Sicilian Mafia and a Corsican Mafia in the setup.

Reading through, Armlx is starting to smell...right up until this comment by the Mod. Why would the Mod post this? It seems fairly obvious to anyone who is paying attention. And it's not like it will really have a major impact on the game if it isnt remembered. That is, i cannot see how the Mod could possibly make this comment if Armlx was scum, because if he did, it could be considering meddling with what could be a ploy by Armlx.
As such, he's pretty much confirmed town.

BM

I think STD is right. The mod edit doesn't tell us anything because it was always obvious that there were 2 scum groups (sicilians and corsicans), and the town (from the intro and pregame posts).

[bird1111]

Vote Count:
CarnCarn (2): Sineish, Empking
Riceballtail (2): Save the Dragons, Battle Mage
Empking (2): CarnCarn, oEJo
Santos (1): ZazieR
Save the Dragons (1): ZTR
Battle Mage (1): SocioPath
SocioPath (1): christiano drago
Sineish (1): Moses le fou
oEJo (1): hp [leaves]

Not voting (4): Rich, Riceballtail, Santos, armlx

With 16 alive it is 9 to lynch.

Lynch Method Vote Count:
Gun (7): CarnCarn, Moses le fou, ZazieR, hp [leaves], oEJo, christiano drago, ZTR
Rope (5): Save the Dragons, Riceballtail, armlx, Empking, Sineish

Not voting for a lynch method (4): Battle Mage, Rich, SocioPath, Santos

If a lynch were to happen without any change in lynch method votes, the Gun would be used.

[Battle Mage]

The set up itself implies 2 scum groups. considering we have to choose which one is lynch vulnerable each day.....

Going ahead and clearing up any remaining confusion. You know for a fact that there is a Sicilian Mafia and a Corsican Mafia in the setup.

Reading through, Armlx is starting to smell...right up until this comment by the Mod. Why would the Mod post this? It seems fairly obvious to anyone who is paying attention. And it's not like it will really have a major impact on the game if it isnt remembered. That is, i cannot see how the Mod could possibly make this comment if Armlx was scum, because if he did, it could be considering meddling with what could be a ploy by Armlx.
As such, he's pretty much confirmed town.

BM

I'm not sure I understand how the mod agreeing with Armlx makes him town. I don't understand what kind of ploy Armlx could be pulling, because he's pretty much giving information from the OP.

I read Armlx's post as being equally unsure of the setup- hence he used the word 'implies' and skirted the issue, as opposed to stating that there WERE 2 scumgroups. I saw the Mod's edit as directed as much at Armlx, as CarnCarn, who had seemed equally unsure. This interpretation may not be accurate, on reread, but even if we assume that Armlx was merely being sarcastic and pointed out the truth of the setup, i find it hard to see how the Mod could viably edit his post and concur with this, if he was scum, because it could be classed as meddling. This is why i dislike unnecessary mod intervention. But, in this game, i think we can learn alot simply from Mod slips.

BM

[CarnCarn]

RE: Vote count

armlx unvoted me last page.

[Save The Dragons]

I disagree with what you said, as it is pretty clear to me that Armlx knew the set up. So please forgive me if I vote Armlx later (with suspicious behavior, of course).

Forgiving that, even so, it really doesn't change much if the mod posts something that's posted in the OP.

I dunno. I'm just uncomfortable clearing people unless we have concrete game information. This isn't enough for me.

[SocioPath]

I read Armlx's post as being equally unsure of the setup- hence he used the word 'implies' and skirted the issue, as opposed to stating that there WERE 2 scumgroups. I saw the Mod's edit as directed as much at Armlx, as CarnCarn, who had seemed equally unsure. This interpretation may not be accurate, on reread, but even if we assume that Armlx was merely being sarcastic and pointed out the truth of the setup, i find it hard to see how the Mod could viably edit his post and concur with this, if he was scum, because it could be classed as meddling. This is why i dislike unnecessary mod intervention. But, in this game, i think we can learn alot simply from Mod slips.

BM

I'm pretty sure that even thought armlx read the wrong PM of his personal role, that he knew the setup concerning the multiple scum groups.

This is especially apparent if you read his first real post in the game.

The only information he was lacking as far as the setup goes, was actually just his own role information.

I think the mod's edit was more for the town in general, that specifically guiding armlx and the things he wrote, armlx's post was just a good meduim to get that knowledge across and out there as opposed to making another post below it since the subject matter was related.

[armlx]

I agree with not-BM. I was aware there was most likely (unless the mod was just pulling a giant prank on all of us) 2 mafia groups.

[Santos]

So what are you getting from that?

[Santos]

sorry

[q]This is 'why Santos'. [/q]
What are you getting from that?

[Moses le fou]

Yeah, this game seems large enough to have 2 scum teams.

The set up itself implies 2 scum groups. considering we have to choose which one is lynch vulnerable each day.....

Going ahead and clearing up any remaining confusion. You know for a fact that there is a Sicilian Mafia and a Corsican Mafia in the setup.

Reading through, Armlx is starting to smell...right up until this comment by the Mod. Why would the Mod post this? It seems fairly obvious to anyone who is paying attention. And it's not like it will really have a major impact on the game if it isnt remembered. That is, i cannot see how the Mod could possibly make this comment if Armlx was scum, because if he did, it could be considering meddling with what could be a ploy by Armlx.
As such, he's pretty much confirmed town.

BM

I am pretty sure I voted for gun.

Fixed.

This is 'why Santos'.

BM

I have no idea what BM is talking about in either of these posts.

Armlx is helping clear up confusion and our dear mod is confirming Armlx's explanation. I fail to see why this would suggest that Armlx doesn't understand the set-up. I'm also concerned that you don't think not knowing that there are two mafias would affect the game. The entire gimmick revolves around that concept.

And why would somebody pointing out a mod mistake on his vote be suspicious behavior?

I'd put an FoS on you, but it feels more like stupid play than scummy play.

[Moses le fou]

Oh, and I just re-read the armlx post before the one that BM posted. Armlx states that the game is a two-scum one, which led to CarnCarn's post saying that he thinks the game might be large enough for one. This confirms that armlx never had any confusion as to whether the game had multiple mafias.

However, re-reading that exchange makes me wonder why CarnCarn wouldn't be sure. Like I said, the entire premise of this game's theme is based on our knowledge that there are two mafias, each of them unkillable via a particular method. If CarnCarn wasn't aware of that very important factor, why hadn't he mentioned it earlier? The fact that we have to vote on an execution method should have been enough of a red flag.

Unvote: Sineish
Vote: CarnCarn

[CarnCarn]

However, re-reading that exchange makes me wonder why CarnCarn wouldn't be sure. Like I said, the entire premise of this game's theme is based on our knowledge that there are two mafias, each of them unkillable via a particular method. If CarnCarn wasn't aware of that very important factor, why hadn't he mentioned it earlier? The fact that we have to vote on an execution method should have been enough of a red flag.

Yeah, it was a brain freeze at the time I was writing it. Playing too many games/doing too many things at the same time. It was an honest slip. I was thinking only about the number of players and forgot about the whole game flavor when I was posting that.

[armlx]

If CarnCarn wasn't aware of that very important factor, why hadn't he mentioned it earlier?

I don't get this.

[CarnCarn]

Quote:

If CarnCarn wasn't aware of that very important factor, why hadn't he mentioned it earlier?



I don't get this.

That's because I

was

aware. Soon after my first random vote for armlx, I voted gun for lynch method. I never even slightly assumed there could only be one scum group in any post other than that one.

[Save The Dragons]

Santos makes it clear that he wants to be voting gun. It's a pretty weak tell, since it really could be someone correcting the mod, but it also does make me suspect him (very slightly) to be of the mafia that is immune to gun.

If BM got something different from that, he'll have to say it, but that's what I got from it (after he pointed it out).

Forgetting the gimmick does not seem to be a scum tell, rather, if it's a tell at all (which I don't think it is) it's probably a town tell, since if he were scum, CarnCarn'd have more reason to know about it, but if he were town, it's not really on his mind.

[armlx]

See above.

[Moses le fou]

If CarnCarn wasn't aware of that very important factor, why hadn't he mentioned it earlier?

I don't get this.

His post made it sound like he wasn't sure whether there ae indeed two scum groups. If he wasn't sure, I would assume that it would have come up earlier, such as when he was voting gun.

I'm reading it as him feigning too much ignorance. I don't see how anybody playing this game would not be aware that there are both Sicilians and Corsicans in this game working separately from each other.

CarnCarn said, "Yeah, this game seems large enough to have 2 scum teams." I can't imagine a townie saying that. If he'd said something like "I guess it's possible that there is only one group and the whole premise is just to screw us over," then I might read it as town. But it reads too much like somebody pretending to know less than he does. It sounds more like a bad lie set up as empty speculation than a townie that might have forgotten that this is Choose Carefully Mafia.

[Save The Dragons]

I think if he were scum, he'd be more in tune with the setup, and less likely to use this as a ploy.

I don't like when people attack people because they "could be scum making a ploy..." or "if he's lying about this, he could be scum!" It's not a good tell. Scum aren't gambitmongers that try to lie and cheat their way through the game. Scum are people who blend in with the town. If a gambit fails, then you're standing in the middle of the street with your pants off, but if you fail at blending, you're just standing in the middle of the street.

[Moses le fou]

I think if he were scum, he'd be more in tune with the setup, and less likely to use this as a ploy.

I don't like when people attack people because they "could be scum making a ploy..." or "if he's lying about this, he could be scum!" It's not a good tell. Scum aren't gambitmongers that try to lie and cheat their way through the game. Scum are people who blend in with the town. If a gambit fails, then you're standing in the middle of the street with your pants off, but if you fail at blending, you're just standing in the middle of the street.

I'm not reading it as a gambit though. I'm reading it as him being mafia and thus knowing that there is a second group, but overplaying the idea that the rest of us might not know that. It was probably a brain freeze on his part, seeing as it's a central part of the theme. But I think it's more likely that the brain freeze was a "forgot that the town knows that" type than a "forgot that it's the whole point of this game and thus has to be true" type.

[armlx]

Uhh, that sounds like a gambit to me. "Lets just hope everyone in the game didn't real the sign up thread hur hur."

[Battle Mage]

Santos makes it clear that he wants to be voting gun. It's a pretty weak tell, since it really could be someone correcting the mod, but it also does make me suspect him (very slightly) to be of the mafia that is immune to gun.

If BM got something different from that, he'll have to say it, but that's what I got from it (after he pointed it out).

Forgetting the gimmick does not seem to be a scum tell, rather, if it's a tell at all (which I don't think it is) it's probably a town tell, since if he were scum, CarnCarn'd have more reason to know about it, but if he were town, it's not really on his mind.

That's part of it. But the fact the Mod got confused, could be linked to the only extra mechanic in the game- scum who are immune to certain weapons. Perhaps the Mod automatically put Santos-scum as voting Gun, because he is gun-immune, and this is logical. In other words, the mod error reflects badly in either direction.

Also, i've read your points against Armlx, and you could be right. For now, i'll continue to consider him a suspect. But i'm not buying CarnCarn-scum atm. Not unless Armlx is too.

BM

[Riceballtail]

Unvote; Vote:Moses

I think you're trying too hard.

[Battle Mage]

Unvote; Vote:Moses

I think you're trying too hard.

The sad thing is, i'm inclined to agree.

FoS: Moses

One to watch, for sure.

BM

[armlx]

BM, that Santos logic is a stretch of epic proportions.