Mini 64-Game Over.

[Stewie]

Allright! But next time, if you are a anti-town role and you are asked to roleclaim, lie

[KingPin]

Vote: Ashes

WTF was that?

[Sugar]

Wow. I tried to figure out how this could be a trick or some sort of sacrificial play (always assuming everyone's playing to win), but it looks simple enough. If she wants to quit, fine.

Vote: Ashes

[mlaker]

The town suspicious of Ashes from other days corners her into a claim finally she snaps and screams, "I"M THE SERIAL KILLER AHH HA HA HA!! I KILL people at night!!!" Well that was weird the town thinks but enough the lynch Ashes and find a knife and fork in her pocket.

Ashes-Cannibal-Lynched
It's now night!

[mlaker]

"What's that smell?" said KingPin casually opening his window sill to further investigate. But being a regular townsperson he would know nothing of the smell of gunpowder!!! 3 shots went into KingPin and he dropped smelling his last smell.

KingPin-Townie-Shot Night 4
It is now day! With 5 left it will take 3 votes to lynch.

[Thoth]

mlaker: There are only 4 left I think. Still 3 to lynch I assume.

Lynch or die time. Three days, but only 6 pages so not that much to go on. I've read them all again and I'll give you my thoughts about the remaining players:

Sugar is very likely innocent in my book. She was the first to go after Macros day 1 for not posting. On day 2 she was already after Dirge before bloojays cop revelation and before there was suspicion from other players against Dirge. If she is Mafia she has fooled me.

ML bringing the Macros doesn't post really alive on day 1. Not really a lot more that I noticed.

Thoth was the only one not on the Macros wagon day 1. Mostly because I could not believe CD and therefore kept my vote on him. I still think that with this setup (95% sure to be 3 Maf + SK) bringing in a SK cop is too harsh on the SK. No more real info from other days.

Stewie is the one I think is the remaining Mafia member. Probably a GF as I cannot remember a 3player Mafia without one. He started day one with a random vote for Macros. Don't know whether I'd do that as Mafia or not. He only hopped on the Macros wagon when it was too late too stop it short of Macros posting and probably a roleclaim, just like Dirge did. Last point is that if there is a GF I think Stewie is the most likely candidate. As I think Sugar is innocent it has to be either ML or Stewie. I don't think there are a lot of mods that make a new player GF, therefore Stewie is the most likely candidate. Of course I was wrong with the mods ideas in CD case, so I may not be the best qualified to try and secondguess him.

Before voting I want to hear the ideas from the other 3 players.

[Stewie]

Well, since you seem to throw the accusations on me, I guess that I should defend myself first.

For starters, I tried to unvote macros because I rather have someone replaced than lynched for lurking. The reason is that I didn't want what happened in mini 69 day one to happen. Luckly, he was mafia, but we can asume that there was a 3/5 of him being town (2 dead, leaves 10 and 4 mafia). As for the GF remaining thing, and that they can't be a new playeer, I don't find that to be true. If mlaker did exactly as I would do, the roles are given completly randomly, meaning anyone could be the GF. I think that on mini 52, one of my third (?) game here, I was godfather, yet still a newbie. And I think mlaker did make it completly random, since ashes was the sk, which is the hardest role to play. Even harder with a cop after her.

I totally agree, if sugar is mafia she has fooled us all, but let's say we are 99.9% sure she's not.

So far, my vote goes to either thoth or ML. Thoth kept the vote on CD day one, after he claimed cop. As far-fetched as it might be, I don't think it's a good idea to lynch a claimed cop day one. And ML because of so eagerly trying to lynch ashes. She was the serial killer, yes, but just the way makes me think he just wanted to speed lynch someone.

I'll hold my vote now, since this is a lynch the right person or lose situation.

So for me, It's between Thoth and ML

[Medicated Lain]

I really get the feeling the last mafia is Thoth... just re-read the thread, and he's done a few things that just stand out as scummish.. in particular:

I was thinking that Ashes was just making some newbie mistakes and did not feel scummy. But when you've completed a full game you should know that you don't cast the lynching vote on someone until he's had time to respond. Especially on day 1. You'd better prepare some explanations for tomorrow.

I'll jump in to defend Ashes again . The fact that Macros was mafia makes him a bit less suspicious to me. As Macros could still have easily avoided a lynching if he just spoke up and made a good roleclaim. On the other hand we were close to the deadline and even with a good claim it would probably have been necessary to get a deadline extension to prevent the lynch. So its possible he just thought: Lets kill my scum brother and hope it makes me look good.

That seems like a complete contradition if you ask me...


Sugar definately does seem like a confirmed innocent.


Stewie seems.... not confirmed, but not as guilty as Thoth... in responce to your ideas on me though, if you look, you'd see that Ashes was the only person I voted, except Macros and Dirge... When I voted for Macros, I was only the second person to vote on him, if I were "speed lynching" as you said, wouldn't I have tried to vote someone that was already suspicious? I just happened to think he was suspicious, as was the same with Ashes... and Dirge had been pointed out as mafia, self explanitory.

As for the doctor thing that people were talking about yesterday, my guess is, the doctor thought the mafia would work on the logic that bloojay would be protected and attack someone else, so they probably thought they should protect someone else in better chances of making a save(whether they were right, or both the serial killer and remaining mafia attacked bloojay, I'm not certain).

[Sugar]

I need to go back from day one and scour the posts, looking for any clues. I did have a look at bloojay's voting record hoping to find something we can use, but unfortunately found nothing. What's interesting is that nobody is standing out as obviously guilty to me right now, but that might change with a closer look.
Meanwhile, maybe we should discuss what we might gain if we all role-claimed today. I'm not suggesting doing so just yet, but rather talking about whether or not it would be most helpful.

[Thoth]

Roleclaiming might be a good option. I do think that Sugar should not claim as she's basically sure to be innocent. At least noone is considering voting for her. That way someone might claim her role.

I don't think those 2 posts are a contradiction ML. When Macros was revealed to be Mafia it made the chance of Ashes being Mafia as well very small in my opinion. If Macros would not have been Mafia I would have gone after Ashes as well.

[Stewie]

the only problem I see with claiming is that if we lynch a townie, the mafia will know who the doctor is, and therefore figure out who to kill sucessfully, with no doctor protection. if we don't claim and get a townie, then the doc can try to figure out who to protect, and the mafia won't know who the protected player is, meaning 50% failure. Now, the advantage of claiming is that we have the chance of scum screwing up, and therefore giving us the win.

I think we should drag this conversation further, and if we get nowhere, claim.

I'll jump in to defend Ashes again . The fact that Macros was mafia makes him a bit less suspicious to me. As Macros could still have easily avoided a lynching if he just spoke up and made a good roleclaim. On the other hand we were close to the deadline and even with a good claim it would probably have been necessary to get a deadline extension to prevent the lynch. So its possible he just thought: Lets kill my scum brother and hope it makes me look good.

Now, I'm not sure, but I think ML said that that post by itself was a contradiction. First, you start off by saying you are going to defend ashes again, and you finish saying "So its possible he just thought: Lets kill my scum brother and hope it makes me look good" which is acusating her, not defending her.

[Thoth]

I'm starting to lean more and more towards Stewie. First he dismisses a valid argument, although its a bit an outside the game one.

As for the GF remaining thing, and that they can't be a new playeer, I don't find that to be true. If mlaker did exactly as I would do, the roles are given completly randomly, meaning anyone could be the GF.

I did not say it was a certainty. Its just that there will be some mods that do assign roles completely random and there will be some that don't. This makes it ceteris paribus more likely that you are a GF than ML.

Second is this:

I'll jump in to defend Ashes again . The fact that Macros was mafia makes him a bit less suspicious to me. As Macros could still have easily avoided a lynching if he just spoke up and made a good roleclaim. On the other hand we were close to the deadline and even with a good claim it would probably have been necessary to get a deadline extension to prevent the lynch. So its possible he just thought: Lets kill my scum brother and hope it makes me look good.

Now, I'm not sure, but I think ML said that that post by itself was a contradiction. First, you start off by saying you are going to defend ashes again, and you finish saying "So its possible he just thought: Lets kill my scum brother and hope it makes me look good" which is acusating her, not defending her.

This is crap and you know it. You know what the words

on the other hand

mean. First I'm saying why I don't think Ashes is Mafia. Then I'm saying why we still cannot exclude the possibility that she is.
Next to that you're trying to make it look like ML is the one saying this post is a contradiction(while at the same time covering yourself by adding "I'm not sure") when ML clearly refers to a contradiction between the 2 posts he quoted. I already explained this below.

It will take some good arguments to get me to switch to ML. I'll wait with voting of course until we have reached agreement.

[Stewie]

I'm starting to lean more and more towards Stewie. First he dismisses a valid argument, although its a bit an outside the game one.

As for the GF remaining thing, and that they can't be a new playeer, I don't find that to be true. If mlaker did exactly as I would do, the roles are given completly randomly, meaning anyone could be the GF.

I did not say it was a certainty. Its just that there will be some mods that do assign roles completely random and there will be some that don't. This makes it ceteris paribus more likely that you are a GF than ML.

That's just crap logic. You said you were inclined to believe mlaker wouldn't put someone new as godfather, when most mods do it randomly. I didn't say there's absolutely no way for me to be the godfather, just that the odds are as big as the odds for ML or you (or even sugar, if she can fool us that badly) to be the GF. I just thought it was a silly excuse to vote for someone. In fact, all your excuses to vote for me in your first post in this day were crap logic. Trying to stop a lynch and just replace Macros, or at least let him defend himself is not scummy, for starters. He was mafia, yes, but how would I know?

Second is this:

I'll jump in to defend Ashes again . The fact that Macros was mafia makes him a bit less suspicious to me. As Macros could still have easily avoided a lynching if he just spoke up and made a good roleclaim. On the other hand we were close to the deadline and even with a good claim it would probably have been necessary to get a deadline extension to prevent the lynch. So its possible he just thought: Lets kill my scum brother and hope it makes me look good.

Now, I'm not sure, but I think ML said that that post by itself was a contradiction. First, you start off by saying you are going to defend ashes again, and you finish saying "So its possible he just thought: Lets kill my scum brother and hope it makes me look good" which is acusating her, not defending her.

This is crap and you know it. You know what the words

on the other hand

mean. First I'm saying why I don't think Ashes is Mafia. Then I'm saying why we still cannot exclude the possibility that she is.
Next to that you're trying to make it look like ML is the one saying this post is a contradiction(while at the same time covering yourself by adding "I'm not sure") when ML clearly refers to a contradiction between the 2 posts he quoted. I already explained this below.

It will take some good arguments to get me to switch to ML. I'll wait with voting of course until we have reached agreement.

I said "I'm not sure" because, you guessed it, I wasn't sure, since I could not see how the 2 quotes are contradicting, But could see how that one was. If you meant to say "Ashes doesn't look suspicious, but she's still an option" well, that's not what I read out of it. You may write something, but people reading it in a computer might take it other way. It happens all the time.

I'm starting to think you are the last one, because of those baseless acusations.

[Medicated Lain]

My oh my this is getting insane.. especially with that last quote Stewie... "Thoth wrote: Stewie Wrote: Thoth wrote:" perhaps we should take a break with those, heh. Well Stewie's suggestion on us not role claiming seemed like just an attempt to get another kill in. Think I'm gonna wait for Sugar to post... I think the best way to do this, since all of us seem so sure of Sugar's innocense(really would be hillarious if she were the last mafia), I think Sugar should choose the order we roleclaim in from the scummy to the not-so-scummy. But then that's my opinion.. because this recent arguement between Thoth and Stewie has me completely at a lost.

[Thoth]

I've been thinking about whether or not we should roleclaim and I must say I agree with Stewie that we should not. If we do roleclaim we have to lynch scum today or we lose. If we don't roleclaim we have a chance even if we make a wrong lynch. Roleclaiming is only good if scum makes a mistake, but looking at the roles we have sofar its extremely easy to make an unchallengeable roleclaim.

Next point is ML's comment about waiting for Sugar to post. I think thats completely wrong. You're nowhere near cleared yet ML. Therefore its a lot better for the town if you post actual content in which you could screw up if you're scum. If you just sit back it looks like it will end in a shouting match between Stewie and me ending with one of us getting lynched. That would make it really easy for you should you be the last scum. I'm more suspicious of Stewie than of you at the moment, but the arguments against him would not normally be enough for a lynch. The problem is that we don't have solid evidence against anyone, therefore we need to go for someone thats more suspicious than others.

Back to the shouting match: I'll try not to quote in quotes and only quote the last quotes to make the quoting less confusing .

That's just crap logic. You said you were inclined to believe mlaker wouldn't put someone new as godfather, when most mods do it randomly. I didn't say there's absolutely no way for me to be the godfather, just that the odds are as big as the odds for ML or you (or even sugar, if she can fool us that badly) to be the GF. I just thought it was a silly excuse to vote for someone.

First is that I did not yet vote for you. I'm only giving arguments to possibly vote for you. As there's no solid evidence against anyone we need to use every scrap of evidence we can get.
Let me then go through step by step. Please let me know in which step the crap logic occurs:
1. There are mods that do not assign all roles randomly, which you seem to agree with according to the 'most mods do it randomly' part above.

2. We do not know how mlaker does it. I've not found previous games he modded on either the new nor the old boards. Therefore there is a chance he assigns randomly and there is a chance he does not.

3. If he does not assign randomly the chance of you being GF is larger than the chance of ML being GF.

4. Therefore ceteris paribus the chance of you being GF is larger than ML being GF.

I'm not saying its a sure thing. Its just one of the small pieces of evidence we have to take into account.

In fact, all your excuses to vote for me in your first post in this day were crap logic. Trying to stop a lynch and just replace Macros, or at least let him defend himself is not scummy, for starters. He was mafia, yes, but how would I know?

This is one of the reasons why I'm still leaning more towards you than ML. You keep misrepresenting what I say. When you accuse me of crap logic and put words in my mouth can you at least quote me. I said none of the things you mention here.

I said "I'm not sure" because, you guessed it, I wasn't sure, since I could not see how the 2 quotes are contradicting, But could see how that one was. If you meant to say "Ashes doesn't look suspicious, but she's still an option" well, that's not what I read out of it. You may write something, but people reading it in a computer might take it other way. It happens all the time.

I still don't get how you can misread that post. English is not my native language, but when I write something of the form: xxxx. On the other hand yyyy. To me it means that I look at both sides and then of course x and y are contradictory. I can understand you misread it if you just skim over it, but not if you read through it carefully because you want to bring it up as evidence.

[Medicated Lain]

The way I look at it, out of the roles left, we atleast have a doctor and a mafia left, the other two, townies or otherwise... I'm not naming off random roles for scum to claim. The idea against roleclaiming, is that we kill someone today with less evidence, and if the choice is wrong, hope that the doctor makes a save. My problem with this, is that all we get out of it is, one definate role put out there, it could be mafia, but if it's not, we only have a chance of tricking the mafia, and I don't think the odds on it are good enough. I think we should claim today, because whether it's today or tomorrow, the scum probably has a role they're planning to play. I doubt the proven role of one other person is enough to make a huge difference. The one problem I can see with roleclaiming, is that it will force the doctor to come out, if the doctor is out, then that really makes today the last day. Roleclaiming seems like the best option to me, because I think right now it's better to lynch with as much information as possible, than to lynch with lesser, and hope that it was enough, or hope that the doctor makes a right choice.

Also, yes I know I'm not completely clear, but to be honest, NO ONE at this point is, we're acting like Sugar is a proven innocent, but no one can vouch for her, for all we know she just could be scum playing the game really well(I doubt that's the case though). I'm not trying to act like I'm a proven innocent, I'm trying to throw my ideas out there.

[Stewie]

Well, I finally understood your theory that says that there are more chances of me being the GF, but I thik that if you follow that theory, the chances of me being the GF are slightly higher than the chances of ML being the GF. Also, if you say it that way, there is a slightly more chances of you being the Gf than Ml from my point of view. So that argument could not be used to throw suspicion on me, but to throw it off ML.

Second, english is not my native language either, but as I understand it, when you say "in the other hand" you are reffering to 2 argumnets that are the opposite, but not completly the opposite. So you can say "i think xxxx is not mafia, but in the other hand, he could be SK." Maybe i got it wrong though.

Before we stretch this argument further, i would like to hear from sugar.

[Sugar]

Ok. I've re-read the game in its entirety. I'll just lay out my thoughts here, as there's not much else to do at this point.

Stewie looked slightly scummier than anyone on D1, because he started out with a random vote on Macros, voted for 2 other innocents, then went back and put the 4th on Macros again. ML put the 2nd on Macros and never changed after that, and Thoth kept his on CD, skeptical of his sk hunting claim. Thoth went against the tide that day.

D2 points to Stewie again, as he's the only one who didn't vote for Dirge.

D3 Stewie came right out and wondered about a doc. Thoth came up with some possibilities about why there was only 1 kill on N3.

Today (isn't this D4, even though the game title says D5?) Thoth begins with speculations which convince me his best interests are for the town, unless he's just really good. ML's posts also seem mostly pro-town. Stewie's seem mostly defensive, and from what I can see, he's also the most against role-claiming.

So from my perspective, Stewie's looked consistently guiltiest, but certainly not overtly so.

[Stewie]

Ok, I guess i'm the first one up then. I am the deputy. Any time during the game (day or night) I can get the investigations of a cop. I already got bloojay's investigations to find nothing that would help now:

night 1, dirge, and he got guilty.
night 2, sugar, and he got innocent
night 3, kingpin, and he got innocent

Since sugar is pretty much cleared anyways, I don't see how revealing this info would hurt us.

[Sugar]

Any time during the game (day or night) I can get the investigations of a cop.

You

can

get? Could you give us a little more information here, such as how you get this info, and when?

[Stewie]

When a cop dies, I can pm mlaker any time after that, and he would pm me the results. I asked for the results when this day started. The reason was that I thought there could be another cop, so if s/he died night 4, I would get his/her results, knowing that bloojay's results where dirge=guilty and whatever innocent he got day 2 (which turned out to be sugar) plus one investigation more. If there was another cop, I would off gotten 4 investigations, which could be more useful than bloojay's investigations. I didd't wait anymore because it could be too late.

[Thoth]

Interesting claim. At least this clears Sugar 100%. Either Stewie is lying and he's the last scum or he's not and than he cleared Sugar.

I'll just post some of my thoughtsw about this, both + and - points.
The night targets seem ok. He investigated Dirge Night 1 and an innocent Night 2. He Fossed KingPin Day 2 so that would have been a likely choice for Night 3. Of course this is all in the thread and having Sugar and KingPin as targets is convenient for scum.

I have several more things to say about this (both + and -), but these could possibly influence other roleclaims. As we seem to be on the roleclaim path now I want to wait until after ML's role with what I have to say.
If we continue with roleclaims (I'm not sure whether we should as there's still the flushing out the doc issue) I think we should follow the following path:
Sugar says whether ML or I should claim first. Stewie can comment on this as well as either he's good and should have a say or he's scum and both ML's and my roleclaim are true so the order doesn't matter.
Next we claim in order (not Sugar).
Then we all post our comments including the ones I'm keeping back now.
Finally Sugar comments about all this and may or may not reveal her role if she thinks we need the info

[Medicated Lain]

I don't believe Stewie's claim. Look at the characters we've had, townies, mafia, a serial killer, and an fbi agent, I just don't think there'd be a deputy, and if there were one, I'd think he could get the FBI agent's results too, or have something more to do than to just get a cop's results... and if that is your only ability... I looked back a bit, on day two you posted before bloojay came out saying Dirge was mafia, and only commented about Ashes, said nothing even pointing to Dirge, if your only ability was to recieve the investigations of a cop, and you knew someone was guilty, why didn't you sacrifice yourself instead of waiting for bloojay to do it? If you are what you claim, you certainly haven't been making very good moves this game.

[Medicated Lain]

Nevermind, I see Stewie said "when a cop dies," then still I think he could've gotten CurtainDog's results, and with a cop and an fbi agent, I just don't believe the claim.

[Stewie]

Not only the cop has to be dead, but I can only do this once during the game. And getting CD's results would be a stupid move, since I'd only get one result.

As for thoth's plan, it's ok, but I think it would be better that after one player claims, the other players comment on that, and then we go onto the next player. I don't know if you meant to say that, but I think it would be better.