Mini 188: Texas Holdem Mafia - GAME OVER!

[EmpTyger]

I’m going to

Unvote: Iammars

. Not because I think he’s innocent, but because I don’t think a lynch is currently the correct action. I think Iammars should go all-in, while he still has a post and is able to. At this point, if Iammars is to challenge, he can only go all-in against Quagmire, kristocker, or Maximus [who hasn’t posted in over 10 days!]. (Though the last 2 depend on when the chip goes on the stack, but theoretically it should be 5 vs. 5- could you verify this, mod?)


Bamboomancer:

<snip>He has one post left, let's let him have it. Then I think we should lynch him.

Um, what about all-in strategy? You yourself totally already said otherwise at least twice. Any reason why you’re deviating now?

I’m on the list also; is anybody not? I spot a very suspicious-looking hand there...


kristocker:

<snip>I second the request that Iammars use his last post of the day to tell us why a 7/2 hand is pro-town.

Actually, the request was originally that Iammars tell this whenever he made his second-to-last post, which he didn’t really do. Given the context, this feels like an attempt to rescue Iammars from going all-in. Or at least push you (after you reply to this observation) out of range.


rajrhcpfreak:
Something about your posts is bothering me. Things like

i just checked my role and i relized that the better hands would be pro town.<snip>

The “sudden discovery” of new information.

its hard for me to beleive that scum would get such a hard role to play. and the connection of the beer and the drinks being bought makes me think that he is telling the truth.

1) He could, um, be lying about his role. Scum are known to do that.
2) Thok, not Iammars, was the first to try purchasing a drink. Iammars in fact seemed to be ignorant (or be feigning ignorance) of any-drink related effects in [96]. Perhaps it is a conspiracy to give Iammars a claim once the drink mechanic is established, but:
3) The mod already denied that the drinks had a game role. Metagaming, but I think it’s more likely Iammars saw a way to give himself a halfway plausible role.

However, yes, doublevoting has been modconfirmed. So even if you are mafia, you still have the doublevoting ablility, and the hands that I can think of which might have that ability aren’t low. So I’m not sure what to make of this.


Thok:

I'd need to see at least a couple more hands before I believe the poor hand equals mafia theory. I've also suggested that a nickname determines a person's role. (For example KJ=Kojak was a cop).

It seems no one else has a bad hand- or rather that no one is willing to admit to holding one, which is just as telling.
If Iammars is scum and “beer hand” rather than “Hammer” etc., your instigating of drink orders will become rather suspicious... as you yourself say, I’d expect the nickname to connect with the role.


Quagmire:
[113] seemed like a parrot to boost your chipcount. You have any comments about anyone besides Iammars?


Maximus:
10 days?

[Thesp]

I’m on the list also; is anybody not? I spot a very suspicious-looking hand there...

No mass claiming here, even pseudo-mass claiming. What benefit would we get from answering this? I suspect it would only help the mafia figure out who's who.

In any case, I agree with the all-in bit, and it's also worth noting that someone can go all in against Iammars as well. I'd prefer it if Iammars tried it, but another can do it to him as well.

[Bamboomancer]

I don't think we should have someone do it TO Iammars. Scum will be all but happy to vig their own to "prove" their innocence. Also, I looked back over mod's posts and there's no indication that the day continues after a successful vig, so I don't know what to think about that. We NEED prods on Iammars to make his last post and go ALL IN against whoever he wants and we need a prod on Maximus to actually DO something.

[Bamboomancer]

Did I get those prods I asked for by any chance?

[Thok]

It helps if you the bold the prods like this

Prod Maximus

. I won't prod Iammars until we come to some consensus about handling all-in votes.

I sort of want to see Bamboomancer go all in on Iammars; if Iammars is scum, he might have been trying to use his role claim to "clear" Bamboomancer. (And Bamboomancer has been fairly defensive this game in any case). But, I'm not sure that my request accomplishes anything. Any thoughts on this?

EmpTyger, one reason that nobody's claimed a bad hand is that most of us don't want to reveal information to scum this early in the game.

Also, LML has said that drinks (or at least the tips) don't mean anything. But if people want me to, I can finish my drink and not get another.

[LoudmouthLee]

Just be pacient, I'm waiting on a replacement.

[Aelyn]

Also, LML has said that drinks (or at least the tips) don't mean anything. But if people want me to, I can finish my drink and not get another.

Chug! Chug! Chug! Chug!



Seriously, I think that Iammars is easily the most suspicious person here - and we need to either have someone go all in on him or for him to go all in on someone.

Mod, if we go all-in successfully, will this end day or will day continue regardless?

[LoudmouthLee]

None of your business, Aelyn

As of pickup, Mastermind of Sin will be replacing Maximus.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Time for me to replaceth teh Maximus, yay! I'm currently rereading.

[kristocker]

<snip>the request was originally that Iammars tell this whenever he made his second-to-last post, which he didn’t really do.

Okay, I don't get it. By asking Iammars again to do something he didn't do when asked I am trying to rescue him? I want to know how a 7-2 hand can benefit the town. We have basically all agreed that good hands are pro-town. I want to know how this hand can help the town.

Thesp, I don't think someone should go all-in against Iammars. How would we choose who it would be? If we randomly choose, a power role might die to a townie - not that I think Iammars is a townie, but you get the drift. We might ask for volunteers, but then, as previously stated, scum could simply vig one of their own to try to prove innocence.

On the flip-side, Iammars can vig one of his scum buddies. It would not prove to us he was innocent; it would give him more chips to try to get out of range of having someone go all-in against him.

Also, can we get an updated vote count? I believe my last vote was for Dranko, so I

unvote.

Not placing my vote on Iammars until he gets his chance to answer my question.

[Mastermind of Sin]

oh,

unvote

if I was voting anyone, I'll try and put together an in-depth analysis today

[EmpTyger]

To update: at this point the only person Iammars can legally all-in is Quagmire. (Assuming that the transition from Maximus to MoS happens clearly.) So on the basis of there being no one else, and since I see no downside, I'll pseudovote Quagmire for Iammars to go all-in against. (Or however we're doing this.)


kristocker:

<snip>Okay, I don't get it. By asking Iammars again to do something he didn't do when asked I am trying to rescue him? I want to know how a 7-2 hand can benefit the town. We have basically all agreed that good hands are pro-town. I want to know how this hand can help the town.

Thesp, I don't think someone should go all-in against Iammars. How would we choose who it would be? If we randomly choose, a power role might die to a townie - not that I think Iammars is a townie, but you get the drift. We might ask for volunteers, but then, as previously stated, scum could simply vig one of their own to try to prove innocence.<snip>

I see a big difference between his using his second-to-last post and his last post. Someone going all-in against Iammars won’t reveal anything; scum dies no matter who goes all-in against them. And this was why I found it suspicious that you were trying to get Iammars to use up his last post- that action would preclude him from going all-in against someone else. Hence “rescue”.


Thok:

<snip>I sort of want to see Bamboomancer go all in on Iammars; if Iammars is scum, he might have been trying to use his role claim to "clear" Bamboomancer. (And Bamboomancer has been fairly defensive this game in any case). But, I'm not sure that my request accomplishes anything. Any thoughts on this?

See above. It doesn’t.

EmpTyger, one reason that nobody's claimed a bad hand is that most of us don't want to reveal information to scum this early in the game.<snip>

Honestly, I fail to see the danger in revealing that general type of information. In fact, I think that mafia loses more by having to making decisions about their claim before the nature of roles becomes more obvious. However, I’ll defer.

[rajrhcpfreak]

all-in against Iammars. How would we choose who it would be? If we randomly choose, a power role might die to a townie - not that I think Iammars is a townie, but you get the drift. We might ask for volunteers, but then, as previously stated, scum could simply vig one of their own to try to prove innocence.

i think we should try to convince the people with lower chip counts to go in.
if a scum lynchs thier own person then we dont have to worry about it "proving thier innocence" because we are going to be suspicious of who ever does go all in.

[kristocker]

i think we should try to convince the people with lower chip counts to go in. if a scum lynchs thier own person then we dont have to worry about it "proving thier innocence" because we are going to be suspicious of who ever does go all in.

I have one of the fewest chip counts, so if we decide that I should go all in against Iammars, that makes me suspicious? I don't understand how you can say on one hand to "we should try to convince people...to go all in" and in the next sentence say "we are going to be suspicious of who ever does go all in." Sounds like you are trying to set someone up.

[Bamboomancer]

The honest truth is that We might waste a townie with a good role killing Iammars, who is not using his last post to reveal his role and whether it will be useful or not. I know that I personally wouldn't go all in on this, and you can read that however you want to, but I doubt there are many people that will volunteer to throw themselves in front of Iammars. I'm only giving him one more day to post because this waiting is ridiculous.

[Aelyn]

The honest truth is that We might waste a townie with a good role killing Iammars, who is not using his last post to reveal his role and whether it will be useful or not. I know that I personally wouldn't go all in on this, and you can read that however you want to, but I doubt there are many people that will volunteer to throw themselves in front of Iammars. I'm only giving him one more day to post because this waiting is ridiculous.

I would be willing to All-In Iammars; if everyone feels that this is a good idea, let me know. I've got some things I'd like to say before I do, but I don't want to unless I know I'm potentially at risk of dying.

[Bamboomancer]

*Has been proved wrong*

I dunno... I hate the thought of losing someone because they're doing the "right thing..."

I STILL want to see Iammars's last post, but it's looking less and less likely. I don't really know WHAT is a good idea at this point, but I also have some things to say before day ends so let's wait for some others and then we can both say what we need to if this is the path we go.

[Thok]

To make this official, LML, could you

Prod Iammars

?

I like Bamboomancer's idea of setting a pseudo deadline for Iammars to post-we shouldn't have to wait for him.

I also have a suggestion for handling the post restriction on future days (assuming that it exists and is rotating). If you don't have a post restriction, you should say so in your first post. Then we can figure out who has the restriction by process of elimination. This has the advantage of saving any post restricted person 1 post.

[Mastermind of Sin]

that's a good idea, thok...also, could someone go over why we are lynching Iammars again? I don't really remember what was said about him.

[kristocker]

Page 4 has most of the Iammars suspicions outlined. The themes seem to be that he has a post restriction and has been underutilizing his posts - one only had six words - and that he has a bad hand. I had asked him to clarify why a bad hand would be good for the town, but I didn't realize this would leave him without the ability to go all-in. I wondering where we should go from here - let him use his last post for content, let him go all-in against someone, lynch him now, or tell someone to go all-in against him? I know that some of these options are out the control of the town, but I'm just wondering....

[Mastermind of Sin]

Ok, now I understand.

vote: Iammars

I would be in favor of him going all-in on someone else we find suspicious.

[Iammars]

Alright, sorry that I hadn't used my last post, but I was waiting for LML to answer a question about my role.
1st: A full explanation of my role. I am 72 unsuited, the Beer Hand. Every night I can buy someone a beer. If that person is scum, then I die. If that person is inoccent, then we both live. The clarification I got is that if there is a doc and he protects me he will not protect me if I find scum. I also have unlynchability (You all feel bad for me). I have no idea what happens if you try to lynch me. I asked that too and LML said he couldn't tell me. I didn't mention this earlier becasue I wanted that answer too.
2nd: All-in. I will not be going all-in today. I am willing to take the risk of what happens if I am attempted to be lynched.
3rd: Plan for tonight.
--Me: Investigate Bamboomancer (My random OMGUS vote. I'm not really getting any scummy vibes off of anyone.)
--Doc: Protect me. This won't save me from hitting scum, but it will save me from the mafia killing me off to frame Bamboo.
Good luck town, and I'll see you tomorrow.
(And as for the six word post, as I said, I do better with restrictions I make up myself [see Bizzare Mafia])

[EmpTyger]

<snip>I also have unlynchability<snip>

Well, this is easy enough to test.

Vote: Iammars

.

[Mastermind of Sin]

hmm, I'm more willing to believe Iammars now that I understand his role, but I agree that his claim of unlynchability should probably be tested.

[Bamboomancer]

We really need a vote count...