Mini 1127 Cult vs Masons OVER. TOWN WINS

[CooLDoG]

@chesskid, coming right up:
unfortunately the only scum game I have played in (to my knowledge) is:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 23&t=15776

town game:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 90&start=0

Find what you can. But you have played a few games with me, I think you should know my meta.

[Exe]

Cooldog, weren't you scum in Fate's prison mafia?

[CooLDoG]

That is correct. I must not have put that on my wiki yet.

[Andrius]

Going to respond to Vas and CD's wall later on. TBH I'm not in the mood for a big post right now.
Later tonight, yes.

[CooLDoG]

hay exe, would you mind answering if you are still for an alliance?

[Exe]

hay exe, would you mind answering if you are still for an alliance?

Not now that I've realized that the CR kills any decent alliance. An alliance at this point would indeed be anti-town/

[Parama]

Fos: AV

Would be a vote but I like the pressure on Andy.

screw you.

unvote, vote: Exe

For clarity: That's a scum's excuse to stay on the biggest wagon.
Haven't even read past this post yet FYI.

[Exe]

For clarity: That's a scum's excuse to stay on the biggest wagon.

I pretty much openly admitted to keeping my vote on the biggest wagon.
So, what is your point? I like wagons, you should know this by now.

[Plum]

I gotta' show off my amazing skills for the Head Mason dude. Since I can't suck up to him directly I'm going to just be amazingly ovtown.
More of getting some of my concerns out there so we don't have people going "wtf" later on down the line.

The second line would be fair enough. The first line doesn't entirely reassure me regarding the fact that the post looked like it was intended to make you look Town as opposed to help Town and possibly incidentally appear Town.

We don't know if they even ARE connected now so unless you plan on forcing massclaim on all of us then there's no way to hunt for c.r. tells right now.

Dude, CR is what we're hunting now. Are you really saying there are no good CR tells (or just no good CR-specific tells)? I don't know how massclaim would help us hunt CR tells or why you'd think that, so yeah.

And why don't you vote for me then, if you agree with Nacho's read on me? Why are you happy about the prospect of an Alliance on Page 2 and sure it's definitely not happening by Page 4?

It was sarcasm. I agree with the read, but him not voting you instantly makes me question his methods. Because if I thought you were CR then I'd vote you. I agree with the read but him not following up on it is scummy. CRs don't like stepping on toes; iss a good way to push your lynch and at the same time not shove a wagon to bear down right away.

Funny, because you saying you agree with the read but not voting me because you're unsure of Nacho's methods (dude, his analysis was right there; if you honestly thought there was any value in the arguments why not go back, look at my post, and see if it was scummy by your own standard or not???) is doing much the same thing, not-stepping-on-toes-but-possibly-setting-up-for-suspecting/lynching me-wise.

@Plum: Yeah, I disliked that last Exe post too. But Andy is still acting like scum so. What do you think of Andy?

Fairly scummeh. Probably second scumread below AV as I'm reading through the thread here, about on par with Exe (look at my last post; I actually tentatively liked more than disliked the post you mention).

I thought I'd see whether there was a different view on alliances that might account for Parama's suspicion. And while I was then deciding between the two of them, I didn't want to unvote while I decided. Why are you allowed to not switch your vote, but I have to do so immediately?

It's not a matter of allowed or not allowed, but I had no alternative suspects/people I was questioning while waiting on Andy. You seem like you might have. But beyond that, you had two decent suspects after your questions were answered. You could easily have voted someone you actually actively suspected and changed your mind afterwards. Instead you kept your vote on Exe, despite the fact that the case you voted him for was invalid. Basically, voting any suspect>>>>>voting someone you don't suspect. Avoiding voting a suspect on the excuse of waiting to decide between two suspects is avoiding voting a suspect while voting a non-suspect.

My point about you sheeping was based on the fact that your Exe vote was based directly on something Parama caught onto. Your Exe vote was based on something CooLDoG caught onto. I haven't seen much of you catching onto much on your own as you scumhunt, even ideas that might be wrong/trivial/whatnot. What you have caught onto has been pushed to the background/not acted upon in favor of acting on other people's trains of thought. That's passivity in the scumhunt and yeah, that's bad too.

@Plum, Seeing as it was page 2 I wanted to simply state that it wasn't a very strong read, partly (mostly) due to the fact that it is so early in the game. But the scum read on andy has grown much stronger as time has gone on.

Fine; I just couldn't tell quite what statement the sentence in question was trying to make.

Umm, your vote isn't even on me LOL.

I know that. I was explaining why I hadn't unvoted. While deciding what to do (i.e. in the situation before I voted Andy) my vote is more useful on you than on no one. That's a statement in the (persisting/perpetual) present tense because the sentiment is still true despite the condition not being fulfilled. My vote is more useful on someone (in this specific case you) than on no one.[/quote]

Dude, follow that to its logical conclusion. Your vote is arguably marginally more useful on someone you OPENLY DECLARED you didn't find a case on anymore and obviously wasn't interested in lynching at the time than on no one (

arguably

). By that token, wouldn't your vote be exponentially more useful on someone you had

any

actual suspicions of???

[Plum]

For clarity: That's a scum's excuse to stay on the biggest wagon.

I pretty much openly admitted to keeping my vote on the biggest wagon.
So, what is your point? I like wagons, you should know this by now.

Voting a viable wagon on your biggest suspect>>>>>>>>>>>>voting the biggest wagon just because.

You should know this by now

.

By the way, the CooLDoG wagon is full of FAIL.

[Exe]

Voting a viable wagon on your biggest suspect>>>>>>>>>>>>voting the biggest wagon just because. You should know this by now.

A suspect is a suspect. There isn't any blaringly obvious scum making Andy a bad candidate, so really I don't see your argument here.

[Andrius]

Kmd, I apologize ahead of time if [ area ] and [ hr ] tags aren't allowed. Please feel free to remove them if you wish, and let me know if I can't.

ALLIANCE IS GO!!


My scumplay is HORRID. Lots of lurking, pushing them easy lynches; I won't bother pushing for people's lynches who are better than me without luck.

Andy posting that he wants in on it.

I wasn't, and am not, pro-alliance D1 in a cult game.
Exe and I last (and first) played together in Frenzy Mafia, where we DID alliance on D1, and it was headed by me. I am, by nature, overly friendly and joking around D1, so I had some fun with Exe. Sorry if you're too SRS BSNS to appreciate two friends joking around. Actually, I'm not sorry at all.

Alliances are led by the ovtown players, or at least generally thought-of as town. The purpose isn't to establish an ovtown club, as they'll just get killed and destroyed within a couple nights. The purpose is to establish an alliance led by ovtown with both 1) ovtown, 2) town-reads, 3) scummy players who can be controlled to a degree. The purpose of an alliance is to form a voting bloc, and once you're in the bloc you vote with the bloc. This helps because it consolidates the first two groups into a voting bloc (the inherent weakness of the town is disunity, unlike the scumbags who know who each other are). The third group is "controlled" because they will naturally WANT to seem protown and they'll go along with the ovtownies for cred. They may be scum, they may be VIs who need guidance.
Then you sit back and watch how they work. Who blindly follows every whim of the alliance? Who votes with them but still expresses dissatisfaction?

I'll bring up Frenzy Mafia for a second:

Alliance Members:
Andy - 1
Parama - 1
Exe - 2
WOMC - 2
Shotty - 3
Furcolow - 3
Pom - 2

Volo was a later addition because I read her as scum and I wanted to keep her under watch through the voting bloc. The quickhammer D1 was not sanctioned by the alliance, and she was lynched at the first opportunity. She flipped scum.

More andy posting about wanting an alliance.

Thanks for the Misrep, AGAIN. I wasn't "wanting" an alliance, or even SUPPORTING getting one D1. I was telling AV how/why they are USEFUL.

Does anyone have meta on cooldog? Because he's coming across as a dick and I just want to know if he plays like this or what.

I wasn't starting an alliance. AV asked about them so I told him my thoughts. Exe is the one wanting alliances.

Oh, yeah, let's just let the Cult Recruiter get killed by the potentially-non-existant mafia. Seriously though, why don't we just lynch her if we think she's C.R.?

Vas, alliances aren't inherentlly bad, especially if recruited masons can't become recruited into the cult afterwards. :/

180 baby.

Again, I'm not supporting an alliance. I said I wasn't starting an alliance, and that Exe was wanting one.
Then I said that they aren't inherently bad, which does not mean "hi im andy and im starting an alliance who wants in?"
Misrep AGAIN.

VAS.
To be honest, BrosudeVa, I'm not as good at reading you as you are reading me. :/ BUT. In MOCO I totally read you gut-scum from your play there, and I get the same feeling here. Except here you came in going "GRRR ANDY" and there you were like "YAAAY ANDY... OH WAIT YOU THINK IM SCUM T_T" and then got serious. I feel like yourplaystyle is evolving and you're more goal-focused now. Meh. And you're not cautious at all, and not just pushing opportune wagons (besides mine, sadly).

---

Page One.
Katsuki does as she does. Leaning town, but I still hate her playstyle, which she self-admits to as "sheeping and lurking".

Somewhat let down by chesskid's play so far, but I'm hoping for good things from him.

I agree with Parama that Exe's question asking about whether or not there is a "normal" mafia faction is suspect. But that means he's probably
1) normal mafia
2) c.r. or another big-wig asking, but he totally could have PM'd kmd instead. So leaning normal mafia.

Vas' vote on me sucks. No offense, but you totally just claimed me playing to my scummeta on Page 1, after two posts. What, I'm scum for voting AV in RVS? I'm still confused as to how that happened.
I was really the night I got my role PM, and hoped that the game started early so I could go in all WAR CRY OF DEATH GRAAAAAAAAHH but it didn't open until later.

The feel I'm getting is 'Hey guys! I'm so excited for this game because I AM SO GOING TO FOOL YOU ALL WITH MAH STRATEGZING AND OBVTOWNIENESS. MUHAHAHAHAHAHAH I HOPE YOU ALL ENJOY LOSING AS MUCH AS I ENJOY WINNING.'

Soooooooooooo I'm scum for posting strategy and setup tinfoilies in my first post?
I admit, I totally had confirmation bias in MOCO. I totally WANTED you to be scum. Sorry about that. /may we not speak of it again

I agree with Nacho that Plum's post is oddly worded. 1) No RVS vote (yes you should all have one in your first post. Vas didn't either. HRM)

PAGE 2.
Exe posted the ALLIANCE IS GO.
I did NOT say I was starting an alliance, or even wanted one. I said "ALLIANCE IS GO .gif" out of friendship since I love starting D1 on a high note and stuff.

Again, chesskid isn't living up to my expectations. Not too happy with his contributions so far.

I completely agree with Parama's reasoning for his Exe vote in #37.

PAGE 3.
Oh Nacho. You know I'd recruit you if I were a Head. <3

Parama is pretty obvtown for figuring the same optimum strategy as I did.
Andy might as well be obvtown. He can't keep this act up forever if he's scum.

Agree with both of these. It isn't an act, this is me attempting to play near my best (Frenzy, BNM).

Nacho's reasons for voting Exe are also spot-on.
At this point I'd be happy with an Exe vote, minus he's not Undesireable #1.

SCUM, not CR: Exe

I still find it odd how you call Plum CR and then NOT vote her.

@andrius, Its scummy because you are seemingly over thinking your posts. Try to make sure everything sounds right. Just my gut read.

Glad you're voting me because I "seemingly" do scummy things, when (those of us who are here in reality) know that I'm not.

Vas, I'm NOT STARTING AN ALLIANCE. Goddamn you guys are thick. FFFF

ender's #64 is spot-on. More content please.

PAGE 4
Kat still hasn't answered my Q from #78. Lurk more please.

Don't buy it. I play to win, not to have fun. You have fun when you win. So lets win and then have fun. And I don't find jokes in mafia games funny.

Don't get your panties in a bunch. Seriously, its a game, we should totally be able to joke around in the first couple pages and not get whipped by the anti-fun nazis.

Again, didn't follow through with a Plum vote because Nacho's logic was unsound, and I am still wondering what's up with that.

Andy is at l-2, I would like to put him to l-1 and see what he says.

Because I'll drastically change how I play at L-1? Or are you just waiting for a claim?

Exe is ovmafia now because he's now calling for under-the-radar players like ender. While not calling out chesskid for the same thing.
Exe/chesskid, perhaps?
Yes, I'm serious.

PAGE 5
Though chesskid's 102 is goodposting.

Caught up to top of this post.

Though, I agree with Parama's reasons to vote Exe in #131. But he'S MAFIA, NOT CR.
PARAMA GET IN GEAR PLEASE.

The second line would be fair enough. The first line doesn't entirely reassure me regarding the fact that the post looked like it was intended to make you look Town as opposed to help Town and possibly incidentally appear Town.

So you gonna' recruit me or not?

Plum, did you even read BNM after you died?? (probably not, but). I outlined CR tells, and I don't want to post them here right now for fear of telling him/her how to NOT play. I KNOW WE ARE HUNTING THE CR. YOU DONT HAVE TO REMIND ME. Of course there are tells. I've already ruled out a couple players for that category already.

Funny, because you saying you agree with the read but not voting me because you're unsure of Nacho's methods (dude, his analysis was right there; if you honestly thought there was any value in the arguments why not go back, look at my post, and see if it was scummy by your own standard or not???) is doing much the same thing, not-stepping-on-toes-but-possibly-setting-up-for-suspecting/lynching me-wise.

It was scummy.
But Nacho's not voting you was also scummy.
You may be mafia, but he may be the CR. And then voting you is the lesser evil.
Don't give me crap over that; I'm hunting the CR here and its NOT easy work.

SERIOUSLY.
GUYS.
GET IN GEAR.
NACHO POST PLEASE.
PROD/REPLACE ADUMBRODEUS.
CHESSKID YOU NEDE TO FUCKING DO SOMETHING USEFUL AND NOT FEEL SORRY FOR YOURSELF BECAUSE THAT IS BULLSHIT.
ENDER YOU NEED TO GET ACTIVE.
SAME WITH KATSUKI THOUGH YOU'RE ALREADY A FAILURE IN MY BOOK.
THIS IS FUCKING ANNOYING.
And cooldog and vas are like "oooooooooohhhhh mannn these moonbeams are good andy looks like scum from 2 posts".

I'm legitimately pissed at like half the players here, but whatever. I won't replace out just because of a couple morons.

-Andy

[Plum]

Andrius. Nacho hasn't posted since Saturday. AV posted yesterday. You want a prod/replace of AV and a replacement of Nacho. That doesn't add up any.

[chesskid3]

>_>
I'm having trouble getting into this game for some reason >_>

[Andrius]

No I want a prod/replace of ADUMBRODEUS. Not AV.

NACHO POST PLEASE.
PROD/REPLACE ADUMBRODEUS.

Was that scummy, Plum, or is that all you had to fucking say about everything?

THEN SHAPE UP AND PLAY AMAZINGLY AND MAYBE THE MASON RECRUITER WILL RECRUIT YOU.

[Nachomamma8]

Andy give me your CR tells from blackest night while I'm catching up.

[Andrius]

FFFFF HANG ON.

[Andrius]

I outlined CR tells, and I don't want to post them here right now for fear of telling him/her how to NOT play.

YOU BETTER HAVE A GOOD REASON NACHO.
BECAUSE I WONT DO THIS JUST TO AMUSE YOU.

[Plum]

You're right; I misread. Sorry about that.

[Andrius]

Sorry for ANGER AT PLUM.
Just very angry with this game in general.

[Nachomamma8]

I outlined CR tells, and I don't want to post them here right now for fear of telling him/her how to NOT play.

MY GOD ANDY YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THIS

[Andrius]

I outlined CR tells, and I don't want to post them here right now for fear of telling him/her how to NOT play.

MY GOD ANDY YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THIS

WHO KNOWS. MAYBE THIS ENDER GUY IS CR AND NEEDS SOME HELP. HE FITS THE BILL PRETTY WELL IMO.

But yeah. Sorry for insulting your intelligence, Mr.Nacho_CR. [/sar]

[Katsuki]

Hi guys.

I was under the impression that the setup was scum recruiter vs mason recruiter.

Am I wrong?

[Andrius]

Hi guys.

I don't plan on actually doing anything and will sheep whoever I want.

Is that cool?

FTFY

Seriously, Kat, you could at least TRY in ONE GAME you're actually in.
IS IT THAT FUCKING HARD?

[Nachomamma8]

Andy is starting an alliance, at page 2. Alliances are bad in cult games(Alliance people get recruited, and it'll be bad from then on.)

I'm still not seeing why this would be scummy of Andy, even though it's obviously wrong. In my experiences, starting alliances is his MO, along with breadcrumbing.

There is no point of doing an alliance to be honest,

what is the alliance members turn out to be cult

and they sneak in to the alliance.

Bolded mine.
There's no way in hell ender is CR.

Nacho, how do you determine Plum is the CR rather than straight scum?

I don't see Plum making that sort of mistake as normal mafia. As Cult Recruiter, most definitely.
Plus, overcautiousness is more of a newscum/3rd party tell, and Plum is about the farthest thing from newscum.

I left my vote there because "in that case" (i.e. under Andy's description) your reason wouldn't stack up, but I wanted to hear what you had to say about alliances before making a change. After waiting and you not responding, I've been considering moving to one of VV or Andy.

I don't like this. It's better to switch your vote too much than too little.

LOL I'm scum?

This is just a rofl-fest.

My god, I didn't think I was that much of a comedian. That being said, why are you so surprised about being called scum? The accusation came on about page three, so it's not like you've established incredibly townie play.

Plus, I don't give a crap who says what, I think the Andy + Parama + Exe combo is beast mode, and I proposed it in Frenzy long before I had any clue whether or not Parama or Andy where town.

I have a question for you, then. Were you serious about the alliance or not? Because this quote suggests that you were, and yet this post suggests you weren't.

Also, Nacho wants me dead instead of the person he thinks is a cult recruiter? That smells fishy as hell.

Why?

Hm? What act and why not?

The town act, and because he sucks as scum.

If you think it sounded awkward I dunno what to tell you; it was the phrasing that came to mind. 'Nice' was meant to be fairly sarcastic - that is, it's set up to look all long and pretty as a post so early in the game, looking like it's brimming with something useful. But with no conclusions, it seems more like intentionally trying to look useful but not actually something with useful conclusions applied. That said it was possible that Andrius meant to put in useful conclusions or imply ones that didn't come across (see my response to him above), so I wanted to poke around (and he didn't follow up with useful conclusions, so there you are).

It seems to me like the sarcastic dig at his speculation sort of contradicts the poking around you were trying to do. Why would you call his speculation bad if you were supposedly trying to determine whether it was good or not? Or am I misunderstanding something here?

I could've switched my vote to him, sure, but I didn't feel like it and didn't think I'd gain or lose anything by it.

This is a bit of a scummy mindset to have. Do you normally have it when voting?

Furthermore, if you believe so strongly that I'm the Cult Leader, why the heck don't you vote me now? Even if you think Exe is likely Mafia as well, Cult Leader is generally more dangerous. Some things aren't lining up with your suspicions here.

I'm not altogether sure that there IS a mafia.
But I am more sure that Exe is scum than I am about you being scum. And my reasons for you being CR are not altogether solid yet, so you're safe for now.

Soo, waiting for an answer to a question before I decide whether something is scummy or not is also bad play? Why are you so impatient? If Nacho has a good explanation for why he thinks you are CR instead of mafia, then he isn't scummy. If he doesn't have a reason - or has a bad reason - I would find him scummy. There's no need to speculate on his scumminess before he's answered my question.

Why exactly would it be scummy if I had a good reason, but not if I had a bad one?

But I voted Andy because he said he was joking around about the alliance; I fail to see why his words "Alliance is go!" should be taken as a joke when Exe said the same thing. It was this double standard that I was voting him for, as I thought was clear by my post. Andy only said that it was a joke a couple of posts before mine.

The South Park picture should have been your first hint.

Every time I think AV is seeming more town, he starts being suspicious again. I say to you, something is not right about AV.

What is that something? And why is this sentence all the attention that "something" gets?

@Andy: You're really not seeming like the Andy from Frenzy mafia. Can you at least comment on a player other than yourself? Because so far it seems like you're trying pretty damn hard to appear townie.

What are the differences between FrenzyAndy and CVMAndy?