Hydra Mafia (Day 4, I can't think of a clever title!)

[Mr Smith]

I haven't stated any solid reads yet, therefore, there is no backdoor to be created.

and you really don't see the problem here? Just like Head B, I noticed that from this very post. You didn't say anything, you posted a bunch of excuses. And everything you said you were wishy washy about, including about the excuses. In stead of posting "I don't have reads because I'm scum and I don't care about them", you posted:

I don't think everyone has posted yet.

- you didn't actually check this (hence the "think"), but you use it regardless as an excuse for not posting your reads.

so we aren't ready to comment on them until we have a consensus reached.

- since you used "consensus", you must be smart enough. This is such political bullshit. It simply means that you are going to withhold your reads for indetermined time.

We don't like being schizo as it's quite anti-town hydra play.

- it's not completely anti-town, no, there seems to be a nuance. What, crabby? Since the sentence starts with "we don't like", it follows that this is an opinion. An opinion you use here as a fact to withold your reads.

We appreciate the ambition and that's part of the reason we think you're townish Smith

- A READ!!! but then, well, we can't be too definate, can we? Nice buddying attempt, crab.

We'll most likely have a post today with our judgments on the cases made so far plus our own personal opinions on who is most likely to be scum.

- Maybe today, maybe tomorrow. Maybe in a week. And then, you are going to talk. About what? about who you are going to vote? who you are going to try to get lynched? no, you'll chat about "who is most likely to be scum".

and the most funny:

It's probably ok if you stop trying to hand out advice that I don't care about.

- It's probably ok? WTH were you thinking here? I can only give you advice during breakfast?

[Mr Smith]

Mr. Smith and Crab Canon

– you can stop your little Alpha pissing contest anytime and get to actually looking for scum.

I assume you know that Ojanen is a girl.

But, you would totally have a point if we were still debating about nameclaims. I think I'm going to like you.

[Bowser]

PREVIEW EDIT: This isn't Day 1 yet. Stop acting like it is, please.

Information exchanged in the thread is useful in potentially determining a Hydra’s alignment, regardless of whether Day 1 is officially started or not. This is essentially the same argument that states that nothing can possibly be learned from RVS / RQS.

Ok. You got us there.

What? He said he's scum? Lynch him! What, you said all those words, don't act like I didn't quote you right. You're just mad because I caught you.

Horrible argument here. Icecream quoted a specific sentence from your post. You cut and pasted words that were not linked in that manner from their post. His is responding to a specific comment. Yours is plain quote tampering.

Will it help you to read the thread? They still quoted us out of context.

~CSL

[FourTigers]

Also I just figured out who one head of masterspy is, its someone I have town meta on. Yay me.

Why don’t you guess – I will not confirm or deny but I’m almost positive you are dead wrong.

You (black spy) are probably MoI.

I would consider voting IceCream, but still think bv311 hold presidence. I think a IC-TAJ is more likely then IC-Bowser though if you look at the relationships there. Smarter to say "X is scum with Y" where X is town and Y is your partner in an early stage, since if a X wagon shows up you wont end up getting your partner lynched while appearing to suspect them conditionally. Thats just personal theory though.

Smith's suspicion on us was because he thought we soft-bussed Bowser. You haven't been explaining, instead, you are doing to the scummy buddying up card.

Ok... some small reasons

- You ignore the debate of meta in regards to claiming saying that it is "more fun not to" despite seeming to think meta will slightly help
- Scare tactics that meta will "falsely confirm scum as town". You ignore the fact that meta DOES work, which is why it is used on this site, to latch onto a worse case scenario
- Not giving reasoning on why TAJ is scum connected to Bowser, just that he is.
- Commentary of the Smith-CC debate, that meaning there is none, just a "oh look at this" comment followed by moving on.

With that I have enough work to do over the next couple days that I doubt I will be posting much/at all. Hopefully my other head will wake up by that time.

~Furry

[Chimaira]

1. Your hydra name/pair (If you so wish)
2. Lynch all Liars/Lynch all Lurkers?
3. Do you think meta will help in this game?
4. If you had to lynch one person right now who would it be, why?
5. Timezone/how active each of you expect to be.
6. Your favorite role?

~Tom

1. My hyrda partner was very much against claiming who we were in thread. Personally I don't care, I don't think it matters. I will respect their wishes for now though and stay quiet on that matter. Pretty sure it will come out in the end anyway.

2. I like a little combo of both. I'm not much of a policy lyncher, prefer to go in other directions. It would depend on how bad the lurking was (active or flake?) and how bad the lie was.

3. Not really. Being in a hydra is very different than playing by yourself. If anything meta might be a bit of a red herring. Hydra partners compensate in many different ways, I doubt I will be looking at meta in this one at all.

4. I'd say bv311 for being picking an annoying name and avatar, I'm easily confused by things like that. But by the time I read the rest of this thread I expect to have a better place and reason for my vote.

5. I'm in CST and I should be pretty active. I don't know about my partner. We haven't spoken for awhile. They might have forgotten the game is going on since it took forever to have our account validated.

6. Townie.

The rest of this game is just blagh for me. The thread never should have been opened before all accounts were active and now I feel like I need to make some epic statement just to get comfortable in here.

I will say Smith v Crab is just ridiculous. Do either of you think the other is scum? If not you are needlessly clogging up the thread for people like me who were late to the party.

I'm gonna go ahead and

Vote: TomandJerry

For posting questions and not actually answering themselves. The rest of the thread is a blur and I will probably try and read it again later.

[Mr Smith]

I personally believe that the argument's being fought over playstyle differences between Head B and VP and as such am trying to ignore it because I do agree that we're wasting time that could be spent lynching IceCream or Boswer.

[Crab Canon]

The alpha thing is male and whether you guys think this is a deflection or not, I'm gonna leave dealing with it to VP - a bunch of rather wasted testosterone fluff imo.
Oj here - mostly annoyed rather than great reads from this nameclaim debate. Some even straight up admit being anti-town like IceCream who openly state they think meta helps here AND refuse to nameclaim due to lulz. But I don't get great scumreads from it, too many people being pointlessly anti-town. I get the idea VP is in the same state of mind.

TomAndJerry is an odd one. Refuse to nameclaim YET use this incredibly convoluted crapmeta-logic on lateralus lying about favorite role? The fact that lateralus hasn't been a mason on mafiascum takes 5+ minutes to check. The effort baffles me. (effort=slight town; convoluted, complicated, really bad use of meta=modus operandi completely at odds to opposing nameclaiming)
TomAndJerry, did you actually go and check everyone's meta who you could similarly, if no, why lateralus, and why assume he doesn't play elsewhere?

Also, repeating: SOTTY7. HI. ARE YOU SCUM?
(you know we'll find out sooner or later in which hydra you are anyway.)

Older stuff:

@OJ-37/Crab-38: Scum can use meta too, especially if someone's town and scum meta are close. The last thing we want is an artificially confirmed town hydra that is scum.

You cannot

confirm

anyone through meta, that's stupid. You can have working hypothesis' and they can be helpful whether you decide to change your mind later or not. And I was answering to Mr. Smith's flawed argument that townies identifying townies isn't particularly helpful, and working from within

his

stated premise than townies are able to do so through meta.

I will be watching the Smith-Crab argument, no comment on it at the moment.

Why?

@Mr. Smith 83: I think I'm simply less optimistic about the improvement of play in general through hydraing than you, and thus less optimistic that hydraing will change the correlation to player skill.

Also I love Crab’s not so subtle attempt at 42 to point out Hydras as lurkers despite not every account being activated. Noted for the record.

I pointed out in our qt to my partner at the time that in fact none of the missing accounts were activated, found that you can look at the memberlist according join date and only activated ones show up. It was not, however, obvious that the mod had decided to start the game with only half of the players able to post, especially as our account took only a few days to activate, there must have been a bottleneck.

Scum will be sharing their identities with each other so they already know a number of the Hydras. It is in their best interests to push for ‘full’ disclosure, if only to hone in on the players they deem ‘most dangerous’ in the field.

This is really really stupid.

Additionally, once again, the playerlist looks sufficiently deep that looking for Docs / other defenders to aim for Experienced players is pointless. Solid Town play in thread should determine potential Doc protections, not join date.

And this is contradictory to it - cancels out the alleged strong scum motive for finding out "dangerous players".

Pineapple is disturbingly tasteless and fluffy, had account activated, had even a

collaborative

pointless answer post made to TAJ questions. The others are much harder to distuiguish in terms of scummy vs. anti-town atm. Need more.

vote: Pineapple

(I haven't discussed this really with VP but he seemed to agree with the pointless presence vibe from Pineapple.)
Mr. Smith and FourTigers are prob town.

Cut by Chimaira - why are you not voting who you would want to lynch right now? How useful do you deem the TAJ questions?

[Mr Smith]

@Mr. Smith 83: I think I'm simply less optimistic about the improvement of play in general through hydraing than you, and thus less optimistic that hydraing will change the correlation to player skill.

At least give them a chance. If a random player can try to improve his play with the help of his hydra partner, I don't see why a VI wouldn't.

Scum will be sharing their identities with each other so they already know a number of the Hydras. It is in their best interests to push for ‘full’ disclosure, if only to hone in on the players they deem ‘most dangerous’ in the field.

This is really really stupid.

Someone clearly put thought in that statement. Is VP posting again?

[Chimaira]

Cut by Chimaira - why are you not voting who you would want to lynch right now? How useful do you deem the TAJ questions?

The bv thing is personal really. If I just voted for people who were being pricks I'd never get to the scum hunting.

As for the questions I'd say in this kind of game they are a reasonable way to get basic info on the hydra's. But why submit them and not answer them yourself? There seemed to be a slight disconnect there. Do they not think the questions are worth answering? If so, why ask them.

I couldn't get much of a read on anyone else so I figure this is a good place to start.

[Narsis]

any particular reasons why?

Yes indeed. Nice of you to stop lurking when the first mention of your name pops up in the suspicions column.

1. Your account was activated before the lockdown by bv310 so I know you have had a chance to comment on the goings on. Yet your ISO is chock full of fluff and responding to the list Furry generated.
2. Your reasoning for lynching bv311 as stated in the questionaire is just downright bad.

Your reaction doesn’t make me think I’m off base. That said White Spy and I are in discussions about who we really think are scum. Additionally the lack of significant input from several players (Chimaira, Faranor) has slowed the concensus forming on our end.

~ The Black Spy

1. Because all this discussion on meta/revealing heads and stuff is all just theory based stuff with little or no actual scum hunting. there's been only a few posts made so far that include an actual attempt at scum hunting and they've been drowned out in my mind by all the meta discussion.

2. true. but so are most reasonings early in the game/in RVS.

[Narsis]

any particular reasons why?

Yes indeed. Nice of you to stop lurking when the first mention of your name pops up in the suspicions column.

1. Your account was activated before the lockdown by bv310 so I know you have had a chance to comment on the goings on. Yet your ISO is chock full of fluff and responding to the list Furry generated.
2. Your reasoning for lynching bv311 as stated in the questionaire is just downright bad.

Your reaction doesn’t make me think I’m off base. That said White Spy and I are in discussions about who we really think are scum. Additionally the lack of significant input from several players (Chimaira, Faranor) has slowed the concensus forming on our end.

~ The Black Spy

1. Because all this discussion on meta/revealing heads and stuff is all just theory based stuff with little or no actual scum hunting. there's been only a few posts made so far that include an actual attempt at scum hunting and they've been drowned out in my mind by all the meta discussion.

2. true. but so are most reasonings early in the game/in RVS.

dang! i knew this was going to happen.

[Crab Canon]

@ Pineapple - Do you feel that you need others to create cases before you can get into a game and begin commenting?

[Crab Canon]

And by commenting, I mean productively scumhunting.

[IceCream]

You cannot confirm anyone through meta, that's stupid. You can have working hypothesis' and they can be helpful whether you decide to change your mind later or not. And I was answering to Mr. Smith's flawed argument that townies identifying townies isn't particularly helpful, and working from within his stated premise than townies are able to do so through meta.

It was an extreme example, yes, but I still just don't like meta.

Why?

I wanted to see how it would turn out without being tainted by my comments. Seeing as you've moved on, I think it was almost certainly Town vs Town, but I needed to see it thought to the end to make sure.

And I guess I'm cream. That's... unfortunate

~Cream.

[IceCream]

Vote: TomandJerry

For posting questions and not actually answering themselves. The rest of the thread is a blur and I will probably try and read it again later.

My scumdar is pinging. Why is him asking the questions scummy?

~Cream

[Pineapple]

@ Pineapple - Do you feel that you need others to create cases before you can get into a game and begin commenting?

no. it helps, but no it's not necessary.

[IceCream]

You're bunnylover, aren't you?

~Cream

[IceCream]

You're bunnylover, aren't you?

~Cream

Except Bunny isn't even in this game. Derp. Ignore me

~Cream

[mykonian]

Take the crab tactic. Wait till they trip up.

and all the time waiting you can use to finally make a good case!

[Mr Smith]

IT IS FREEKING IMPOSSIBLE TO GET MORE THEN 6 PAGES INTO A GAME WITHOUT TRIPPING UP.

You know them all again, VP. I even logged out of my account to log in again... on my own account.

Don't expect me to post for at least 24 hours. WRRAAAA

[Mr Smith]

^both heads of the hydra did the exact same thing... on the exact same day... what.

[Crab Canon]

lmao

Had I known it was you myk, I wouldn't have even bothered to argue since you always trip up on alt accounts. You may as well give up the tough guy style while you're at it since I know that's not really how you play normally anyway.

@Pineapple - If it's not necessary for you to scumhunt, then how is this even relevant:

1. Because all this discussion on meta/revealing heads and stuff is all just theory based stuff with little or no actual scum hunting. there's been only a few posts made so far that include an actual attempt at scum hunting and they've been drowned out in my mind by all the meta discussion.

Seems like you're simply making excuses if it's not relevant.

[Pineapple]

lmao

Had I known it was you myk, I wouldn't have even bothered to argue since you always trip up on alt accounts. You may as well give up the tough guy style while you're at it since I know that's not really how you play normally anyway.

@Pineapple - If it's not necessary for you to scumhunt, then how is this even relevant:

1. Because all this discussion on meta/revealing heads and stuff is all just theory based stuff with little or no actual scum hunting. there's been only a few posts made so far that include an actual attempt at scum hunting and they've been drowned out in my mind by all the meta discussion.

Seems like you're simply making excuses if it's not relevant.

you misunderstand. we do need to scum hunt.

[bv310]

Okay, since all 12 hydras have finally confirmed (and I'm on a semi-stable computer), the game is now on! Votes made from this post on count.

Also, if this colour is difficult to read, let me know and I'll switch to something else.

[Mr Smith]

lmao

Had I known it was you myk, I wouldn't have even bothered to argue since you always trip up on alt accounts. You may as well give up the tough guy style while you're at it since I know that's not really how you play normally anyway.

I should have known that inning in such a game was a bad idea. The only reason people haven't noticed me tripping up is that (except for marathon games) I haven't played under alts anymore.

I promised my partner that I'd try to adapt to his playstyle and become a little more aggressive, as he promised it was quite effective as town. And posts like the above were why I didn't want to be known right away As I know that on this moment, only one player has ever had a correct meta-scum read on me, and that that player is not in this game, and that that player says he hates meta, so can we please not make the "He is playing differently so he must be scum" argument?

Oh, before anyone gets the idea. I meant every single post I made. I would probably have posted them in a slightly different way, a bit smoother perhaps, but I meant everything.