Open 508: The Law of the Jungle (Town Wins!)

[theslimer3]

VOTE: Voodoo

No mercy. If the wolf is stubbs then he'll have to aim at a townie instead of you.

I'm adding mystics back into the game, and since you've outed yourself as scum, you've already hammered yourself

[Does Bo Know]

I'm gonna have to high five Slimer for liking fun

[Voodoo Lady]

Oh my goooooooooooooooooooooood.

Slimer and Jen aren't wolves. It's one of the other three players.

Good luck, and well played.

[Does Bo Know]

Okay so you're really Mafia. Sorry Voodoo. I still don't get why you even claimed.

[Bulbazak]

Speaking of rare examples...

Vote Count:

StubbsKVM (0):
Does Bo Know (1): Voodoo Lady

Voodoo Lady (4): StubbsKVM, BoroPhil, Does Bo Know, Theslimer3

Jennifer (0):
BoroPhil (0):
Theslimer3 (1): Jennifer

Not voting (0):

Voodoo Lady,

Mafia Goon

, has been lynched.

It is now Night 4. All night actions must be submitted to me by Wednesday August 28 at 12:30am EST. Countdown: (expired on 2013-08-28 00:30:00)

[Bulbazak]

Theslimer3 has requested replacement. Deadline will be extended an extra 48 hours after one is found.

[Bulbazak]

ChannelDelibird replaces Theslimer3. New deadline is Friday August 30 at 3:00pm EST. Countdown: (expired on 2013-08-30 15:00:00)

[Bulbazak]

Sometimes I wish everything was just as simple as my one book.

Does Bo Know,

Vanilla Townie

, was night killed.

Vote Count:

StubbsKVM (0):
Jennifer (0):
BoroPhil (0):
ChannelDelibird (0):

Not voting (4): StubbsKVM, Jennifer, BoroPhil, ChannelDelibird

It is day 5. Town is in Mylo. With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day ends on Friday September 13 at 3:00pm EST or when a majority is reached. Countdown: (expired on 2013-09-13 15:00:00)

[BoroPhil]

Interesting kill. Made things a bit easier for me as I was never going to be totally happy seeing DBK as town, but then again he was pretty much seen as town by everyone else.

Looking forward to see what CD thinks of the game.

[BoroPhil]

take your pick really. Jen, DBK and Titus seem the towniest of the remaining 7, so by process of elimination the other 4 must be scum. the only caveat I'd put on that is that voodoo is so dis-interested she has to be town. smidger and stubbs have been so indistinct I thought they were the same person. IceGuy comes storming in and votes for Voodoo, mafia voting for mafia early on to put some distance between them?

My reads on Jen, DBK and Titus are surely bound to be wrong on at least one of them, but I can't justify voting for any of them at this stage.

so I'm happy to go with one of:

stubbs
Ice
Voodoo
slimer

quite like my mafia voting for mafia idea so let's stick it on voodoo for the moment

VOTE: voodoo

btw, I can't resist, and I can't claim any credit for lynching voodoo as I didn't think she was mafia anymore, but it's pretty amusing that this which kicked off all of that shit on day 3 was actually 100% accurate

[ChannelDelibird]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't we immediately no lynch so as to narrow it down to 3? We have one wolf and three townies left, yes?

[ChannelDelibird]

By the way: I haven't read the game yet because I don't like reading up when I can't immediately post my thoughts when I'm done.*

*Disclaimer: If I were scum, I would have at least have skimmed the previous day plus however much more I could fit in during the night, but I obviously wouldn't tell you about it. I feel like this should be obvious but I just want to assure you that I'd be playing to my win condition either way.

[ChannelDelibird]

In fact,

VOTE: No Lynch

There would have to be an amazing reason not to do this. I'll still be reading up today but, generally, we should be doing this with a minimum of talking.

[Jennifer]

Welcome, ChannelDelibird!

Why did you feel the need to post that disclaimer by the way? It starts making my head spin with wifom.

If my math is right (always suspect sadly), we only have 1 mislynch whether we lynch someone today or tomorrow. The only difference is whether we're a man down when deciding on the lynch. So I think the optimal thing to do is to get full discussion with everyone today, then no lynch, then when we're a man down tomorrow, at least we have that person's input and they're conf-town so we can take their thoughts seriously.

[ChannelDelibird]

Why did you feel the need to post that disclaimer by the way? It starts making my head spin with wifom.

I knew that would happen, and I apologise for adding the WIFOM element, but I prefer that to giving the impression that I might be trying to 'game the system'. I would feel bad about the mod adding two days to the night phase to allow for hypothetical CDBscum to read the game and choose a kill, then for me to come into the game now all 'hey guys I haven't read anything so it couldn't possibly be me, right?'. That would feel like I were using the unfortunate mechanic of replacement to win rather than just playing the game, and I don't think that's fair play.

If my math is right (always suspect sadly), we only have 1 mislynch whether we lynch someone today or tomorrow. The only difference is whether we're a man down when deciding on the lynch. So I think the optimal thing to do is to get full discussion with everyone today, then no lynch, then when we're a man down tomorrow, at least we have that person's input and they're conf-town so we can take their thoughts seriously.

My concern is that, the longer we talk now, the more scum get to figure out exactly who is the optimal kill. We (presumably) learned something from their choice of kill last night and their next choice, if made on the same information, should tell us more about their choice than a kill choice they make after we spend two weeks expanding and making cases. We want the scum to be as uninformed as possible because their advantage over us is information. Killing with as little prompting from us as possible helps that happen.

[ChannelDelibird]

Frustratingly, I'm sure there

must

be an MD thread explaining exactly why it's better to no lynch immediately rather than later with greater concision and eloquence than I can muster - mainly because it's been universally agreed at all meets I've been to, with many great players, that that's the best way to do it. I'm going to keep trying to find it but I really think it's best that we do this quickly.

[BoroPhil]

Hi CD.

My first instincts were to immediately no-lynch today and I wanted to see what the rest of you would do. The 4-1 vs 3-1 makes perfect sense if you look at it like that, however if you read the wiki on here it actually points out that by doing that you allow the scum to get rid of town's best player if you like (or who they think would be most useful). Therefore, I think it's pretty imperative we at least discuss rather than just simply no-lynch.

You'd also have to say that the one thing scum would like to do today to get town cred is to immediately suggest a no-lynch.

We have to ask ourselves some questions:

- Who would be the easy target scum would want to target for a lynch today/tomorrow
- Who do you think is the last scum
- Is there anyone who you think is 100% town (or basically someone you wouldn't consider lynching)

[ChannelDelibird]

You'd also have to say that the one thing scum would like to do today to get town cred is to immediately suggest a no-lynch.

Not necessarily at all; opinions are clearly not as unanimous on this subject as I thought. It's what

I

would do immediately as scum, sure, but it's also what I would do immediately as town. This actually has no relevance to alignment at all, it's just an objective discussion about optimal play.

I may or may not be able to finish reading tonight but, if there's no further support for an immediate no-lynch when I'm done, I'll go along with this and we'll talk before we no-lynch, and I'll answer the questions you just asked. I'd rather scumhunt than drag out an argument about it.

[ChannelDelibird]

Also, for ease, my username is commonly abbreviated to CDB. Too many CDs from before my time...

[ChannelDelibird]

however if you read the wiki on here it actually points out that by doing that you allow the scum to get rid of town's best player if you like (or who they think would be most useful)

a) Don't believe everything you read on the wiki verbatim. A lot of it is written subjectively, out of context or outdatedly. It's a guide, not a rulebook.
b) Scum "get rid of the town's best player" more effectively when they get a full day's talk to see who is more likely to rumble them in endgame.

[BoroPhil]

Yep, but surely if we treat this as the last day, effectively come to a decision (not necessarily publicly) and then go with it tomorrow, regardless of who gets NKed tonight then the result is the same. and we get a bit more of a safety cushion.

[StubbsKVM]

Well, CDB, I'd love to hear your reads and I won't be voting no lynch until I hear them.

Your slot is the scummiest from my POV.

[ChannelDelibird]

Well, CDB, I'd love to hear your reads and I won't be voting no lynch until I hear them.

Fair enough.

I'm mid-read at the moment and will finish as soon as I can - tomorrow is the busiest work day of the year, however, so I may be pretty quiet for 24 hours or so.

[StubbsKVM]

Take your time. No need to rush

[BoroPhil]

Indeed