Double-Dip Mafia, Game Over

[Ranmaru]

Btw Tar's town.

[Ranmaru]

Wait...

Run the existance of a thir...

Fuck it. I'll keep looking for scum, I'm not going to just assume two scum.

Did I just say this? LOL. I meant to say Non-existance. *facepalm*

[Flavour Analysis]

I would like for you to explain his difference in tone from Mafia invictus to here.

[Ranmaru]

I would like for you to explain his difference in tone from Mafia invictus to here.

oops post mine ;-;

[Amrun]

Who is you?

[Ranmaru]

Tar. He mentioned Quil's tone being different from his play in Mafia Invictus.

[Ranmaru]

WTF.

HAVE YOU NOT SEEN QUIL SCUM?

I HAVE. I LOST TO HIM IN LYLO.

I SHOULD FUCKING KNO.

WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU VOTING IMAG? HE'S SO PRO TOWN GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE

Maybe I should take this back...

[Ranmaru]

*Wrt Quil/Slay... I forgot about Slay...

[Quilford]

@Quilford - Why don't you think Smalls is scum? He wasn't exactly on the top of my list before, but crap like this makes me nervous:

I don't see Quilford being that scumlike...

so don't think smalls is mafia guys

he reminds me of a guy called brundibar in my newbie here
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=16915

fuck my tone it varies in basically every game I'm in

I explained why I missed the kunkstar wagon and the rest of your post is just shitty stuff brought up against my predecessor

your repetition of

Yeah that's not a town explanation

Yeah, that doesn't look like town rhetoric to me.

That's not town.

That tone isn't a town tone.

That's NOT Quiltown.

is a kind of written tic I notice myself writing in posts as mafia and I'm pretty sure I've seen it performed by other players too

plus your slot's history is friggin terrible and the replacing out reeks of scum

VOTE: Tarharlindur

[petroleumjelly]

Day Four Vote Count #7

3 Crazy (Amrun, Ranmaru, Empking)
3 DrippingGoofball (imaginality, Empking, smallpeoples343)
3 Empking (DrippingGoofball, Quilford, Crazy)
3 Tarhalindur (Amrun, DrippingGoofball, Quilford)
1 imaginality (Tarhalindur)
1 Quilford (Tarhalindur)
1 Ranmaru (smallpeoples343)
1 smallpeoples343 (Ranmaru)

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch. Deadline is August 6 at 5:00 PM PDT.

Not Voting – 0 – Nobody

[Amrun]

Why is the replacing out more likely to be scum?

[imaginality]

Second scum is Imaginality (horribly, horribly under the radar).

By 'under the radar', do you mean:

(a) trying to slide by without doing much scum-hunting,
(b) not being under suspicion when there are reasons why I should be under more suspicion, or
(c) not being under suspicion in itself being suspicious?

If you mean (a), that I'm trying to slide by unnoticed, I'd dispute that. I think I've been fairly actively involved in this game, in particular the pressure I've put on Pom/DGB and Crazy. smallpeoples343.
If you mean (b), that other people should be suspecting me more, I want to hear your reasons for that.
If you mean (c), that the lack of suspicion on me is what's making you suspicious in itself, well, that's a cousin to the 'too townie' fallacy. In any case, it's not something I can address, since I'm not responsible for others' reads of me.

--

The Quilford case, I think Tar makes reasonable points, and Quilford's reaction to it reads bad to me. I'm not against more pressure on him tomorrow, but I'm reluctant to lynch outside DGB or Crazy today.

DGB and Crazy are scummy independently of each other but also make a very possible pairing. Both have links to kunkstar7 (Crazy for defending him, DGB because kunkstar7's quickhammers arguably protected her from being lynched both days).

As for smallpeoples343, I take Crazy's point that smalls could be dumb

and

scum, and Ranmaru made some good points last page comparing smalls D1 play with later days. So I still see smalls as a good prospect of flipping scum, but Crazy and DGB are better ones. And I think a Crazy scumflip would point to smalls-town, while a DGB townflip would point to smalls-scum and a DGB scumflip would point to smalls-town (especially if DGB flips scum power role), so I feel like we'd have a stronger read on him tomorrow as a result of lynching Crazy or DGB.

Vote: Crazy

L-1


@Tarhalindur: what are your reads on DGB and Crazy?

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm not going to vote Crazy, Ranmaru-Of-The-Broken-Scumdar and Empscum are voting for him. It's a very bad sign.

Tar is avoiding me?

[DrippingGoofball]

...while a DGB townflip would point to smalls-scum...

I'm vanilla town, and I don't see how that makes smalls-scum. Smalls may be scum for a bunch of reasons, but none of them should have anything to do with my alignment. Unless i'm missing something.

[DrippingGoofball]

PJ notes replacement: 12:36
Tar votes Quilford: 12:45
Tar votes imaginality 13:02
Tar case against Slay/Quil 13:17

Ranmaru says Tar is town, confirming Tar as as scum.

Tar doesn't mention me.

The Tar posts are artificial, incomplete, and smack of a scum agenda.

Vote stays.

[DrippingGoofball]

Is Tar distancing with imaginality ??????????????????????

Tar's Quilford vote is uber-bad.

[imaginality]

@DGB re. smallpeoples343 - I'm basing that on his iso51 (post 904) where he jumped on your wagon for a bad reason while listing kunkstar7 in his other suspects. Like I said in 905, I think if he's scum, that particular post of his fits better with DGB-town than DGB-scum. I don't feel it's that likely the two of you are scum together. (Same with Crazy and smalls.)

[imaginality]

(By 'same' I mean I don't think they're scum together, either.)

Given I have scum reads on all three of you, I think I'm more likely right about you-scum and Crazy-scum and wrong about smalls, than right about smalls-scum and wrong about you and Crazy.

[DrippingGoofball]

OK, I get where you're coming from. I'm town though. You should add a bit more scumweight to smalls.

You're wrong about me; and I think you're wrong about Crazy.

[Tarhalindur]

PJ notes replacement: 12:36
Tar votes Quilford: 12:45
Tar votes imaginality 13:02
Tar case against Slay/Quil 13:17

Ranmaru says Tar is town, confirming Tar as as scum.

Tar doesn't mention me.

The Tar posts are artificial, incomplete, and smack of a scum agenda.

Vote stays.

That's because I'm still processing the game and trying to get a goddamn read on your slot, all my old scumtells on you work like shit now that you've changed style.

Not sucking up to me is a point in your favor, post 702 (kunk AND Slay on your scumlist) is a point in your favor (don't think you're distancing), willingness to get lynched is a point in your favor, post 932 looks genuine.

On the flip side, Pom's wagon on Hiraki was godawful and I just saw you pull scumputer shenanigans like I'm seeing here as DGB-scum.

Not sold on you being town, but I don't think you're anywhere near the most likely person to be scum. I don't want you lynched today.

---

Crazy attacks are BAD. He's one of my strongest town reads.

He's been pushing imaginality. IMAGINALITY. And his case is quite solid.

Want more evidence that Crazy is town? Here, have some choice Crazytown posts from D1 and D2:

Also, kunkstar, can you explain why me voting Imaginality but not you would be indicative of me being scum? I mean, I could understand scum might be hypocritical in regards to their own scum-partners, but how is me being hypocritical in favor of you scummy from

your own

perspective, since you should know yourself to be town.

Nice catch that. (Also, oh look kunkscum defending a buddy.)

Okay, screw this Pom wagon. My only read on her is of someone that obviously didn't have enough time to devote to this game,

especially

since she ended up requesting replacement. If she happens to be scum, then it's by

luck

. I see no particular reason to lynch her now, before her replacement comes in, at least.

WLC is much, much, scummier. His Day 1 play was just voting Amrun for nonsense reasons (see my earlier post from late Day 1), voting kunkstar for not voting in his first post (valid, but weak), and then just filler posts for the rest of the day. He didn't scum-hunt, he didn't press his reads, and he didn't really comment on any of the major wagons.

On Day 2, all he did was dump his questionable Amrun read for an easy Smalls vote. He never responded to the wagon on himself or came up with any decent reads. I suppose he probably will try

soon

, but I doubt anything he will say will change my mind at this point. In some cases, I think it's far more telling to see what a player does when they're

not

under pressure.

If there's anything I want to hear from WLC, it's an

explanation of how his case on Amrun made any sense

.

I'm not going to use my second vote because I don't want to give any implication that there's anyone that I want to lynch today except for WLC.

That read on the Pom wagon does NOT come from a scumbag (DGB flipping scum would weaken this read, but not negate it). He recognized that the wagon was crap and backed off.

DGB

not

voting for WLC upon replacing in most likely either means that she's town or they're scum together, and the latter is far less likely just because of probability. If WLC flips scum, I'll consider it, then. But DGB scum/WLC town makes VERY little sense.

To you disagreers - tell me why you disagree with this.

If you were scum replacing in Pom's position, could you possibly see yourself

not

voting for WLC?

I like post 697. I don't really understand why people are giving WLC such a hard time.

Really...? Does it not bother you that Post #697 is his first decent post in this game?

Glorious GLORIOUS reasoning here (and another point in DGB's favor).

CRAZY IS GENUINELY SCUMHUNTING, HE IS CONSIDERING WHETHER A PLAYER'S ACTIONS ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE AS SCUM AND RESPONDING ACCORDINGLY. WE ARE NOT LYNCHING HIM TODAY.

More in a bit, but for now I want to make sure that pants-on-head town doesn't hammer Crazy.

[Tarhalindur]

MORE CRAZYTOWN:

Ranmaru, when Fate suggested hammering DH without a claim, all you did was say "Uh, no, we should always make sure to get a claim before we lynch somebody." In this game, on the other hand, you're going "OMG KUNKSTAR IS SCUM DIE DIE DIE." Why the difference?

Not that I excuse Kunkstar's actions, but that's for post-game discussion crap. It's horrible play, but I don't think his hammering was necessarily a scum-tell. If anything, it's a slight

town

-tell, since it drew unnecessary focus towards him. And no, this isn't WIFOM, since there is no way that Kunkstar could imagine that I'd say that.

Post #845 is also one of the most absurd examples of reaching I've ever seen.

Everyone look at this, please

.

Just because he was proved wrong here (by kunk flip) doesn't mean he was *wrong*.

*glances at silavor in Mafia Invictus*

Lol, I get that all the time. Every time I blast someone for making a stupid argument against X, then "OMG, Crazy must be X's partner!" Seriously, this isn't even the first time that happened in

this game

. Wasn't I supposed to be Hiraki's partner, too?

My attention here really isn't toward defending Kunkstar, though - there are actually many worse people to lynch (like the horrible Pom wagon, but I'll get to that). My issue is that you look like scum setting up an easy lynch for tomorrow. Kunkstar

is

an easy lynch, and if I was scum, you can bet I'd be down his throat like crazy. What matters here is that your attacks on him are... very bad. You're saying so much that he "claimed scum" by his quickhammer, even though you've personally seen town quickhammer like that before (Fate in Open 300). Your other main issue with him is that he didn't specify who he was unvoting when he hammered WLC. I mean, seriously? You can check his posts - he was voting Pom and me before that.

Another thing is that you got on his case immediately, even before WLC's flip. That implies to me that you

knew

that WLC would flip town. You had been saying all day that you wanted one of Pom/WLC to get lynched, and yet you never considered that Kunkstar could have hammered scum. Instead of a normal reaction, like, "Ugh, I can't believe Kunk just hammered without a claim, but I hope he's right," you went all "OMG KUNKSTAR JUST CLAIMED SCUMZZZ!!!"

Oh, and what else? This isn't the first time you've done this! You were on Pom's butt for not contributing, fair enough, but when Pom replaced out, you didn't think that justified the inactivity? She replaced out because she didn't have time for the game, right...?

Check out these quotes, people (posts 662-664):

She

[Pom]

only felt the need to replace out when a wagon was looming over her. Thoughts?

I don't like making assumptions based on timing of replacement requests; I think it's fairer to assume it's a null tell. I think if I remember correctly there was an MD thread about this, I'll try to find the link.

Oh I see. Well I guess it being null wouldn't absolve the slot of being scummy, but let's see what the replacement has to say then.

My paraphrase:

Ranmaru: Hey, I wonder if I can make Pom look scummy for replacing out!
imaginality: No, you can't.
Ranmaru: Oh, well.

But Pom is still scum!!!

In all seriousness, you generally don't

ask

somebody whether something is scummy or not, unless you're trying to gauge reactions. But that's clearly not what Ranmaru was doing, since he gave up the idea after only one person replied. So apparently Ranmaru never really thought that Pom replacing out was scummy to begin with, if he gave up on that idea so easily.

Even though it won't do anything,

VOTE: Ranmaru

Guys, if I do die tonight, please look heavily into Ranmaru.

Yeah, that right there? It's a TOWN case.

Crazy decided that kunkstar's actions weren't necessarily those of scum, found things in Ranmaru's reactions that he thought had to come from scum, and acted accordingly. He was wrong, but that doesn't mean that he's scum.

Seriously, this is Zachrulez in Mafia Invictus all over again.

I assume the main reason a wagon formed on me is because I attacked Ranmaru's crappy case on Kunkstar, and now Ranmaru is confirmed town. I'm not really sure what I can say about that, except that I think it was pretty obvious that I was more about lynching Ranmaru rather than defending Kunkstar. But meh, if you guys have any questions for me, I'll be glad to answer them.

Looking for likely Kunkstar partners:

Crazy: (post 377) Your analysis of kunkstar seemed a little stating the obvious... "shape up- ship out"... why bother? Content fluff?
Kunkstar: (post 381) Good catch (I think) on Pom not really saying anything other than "scummy" to move her vote from rvs to real. I'd like to hear more about this from Pom.

This is Amelia's only mention of Kunkstar. The first line (incorrectly directed towards me) feels like a subtle defense - if only because scum tend to be in-tune with what other people are saying about their buddies.

Her replacement, Quilford, seems VERY bad in regard to Kunkstar's flip.

In Post #754, he puts Kunkstar in his "scum" list, but he never voted for him the rest of the game.

did Kunkstar hammer with absolutely no reasoning or comment again?

I'm beginning to think he's post restricted, lol.

This is bad because it reads like Quilford is trying to give Kunkstar an out. Also, this hardly seems like a reaction from someone who had Kunkstar as one of his main suspects. If Quilford was

already

suspicious of Kunkstar, then wouldn't the second quickhammer make him

raise

his suspicions (like Ranmaru's reaction), rather than make him think Kunkstar had a post restriction?

Today:

kunkstar flip was utterly predictable; I meant to put my vote on him yesterday but instead put it on you (make of that what you will, Amrun )

Here he's trying to act like Kunkstar was obvscum, even though there's

nothing

in his previous posts that suggested that he thought that. Check his ISO; his main suspects were DGB and Ranmaru, and now he's acting like he

knew

Kunkstar would flip scum? Come on...

I can't in good faith vote Quilford yet, since I haven't looked at everybody, but he's definitely scummy. I just don't know yet if there are people that look even worse off than Quilford.

I cannot FATHOM how people think that Crazy is scum after this post.

He's looking OFF the beaten track for scumbags, he's got two INSANELY good catches on Quilford. And people are WAGONING him?

No. FUCK THAT SHIT.

@Crazy: What's your read on DGB today?

She's still prob-town for not jumping on the WLC wagon - even though (a) her neck was on the line and (b) she had just replaced in so she could come up with any reads she wanted.

Why do

you

still think DGB is scum despite that? And same question

@Empking

.

Tell me: If Crazy is scum, why has he stayed off DGB? Why is he defending DGB? Why has he stayed off my wagon?

Crazy is staying OFF the easy lynches. He has been ALL GAME.

Crazy is GENUINELY SCUMHUNTING.

In a game which fairly clearly has only one scum faction (and no SK), that means he's almost certainly town.

People, get your pants off your head and starting LISTENING to Crazy.

Did you really expect me to figure out that's what you meant by that? Why are you being so vague, dude? There can't be any decent pro-town reason for making a post that can't be answered by anything except an "Elaborate, please."

I know you have an unorthodox playstyle, but that takes it to a new level of absurdity.

On top of that, your reasoning is crap, too. DGB's "scumputer" is based on entirely objective criteria, so her alignment's going to have nothing to do with whether her results pick out scum or not.

And of course you never

mention

this is why you voted DGB. Do you just vote DGB for unexplained reasons and assume that people will let you get away with it because it's your playstyle?

I'm voting you for two reasons - for being ridiculously vague when I asked you a question, and having absurd reasons for assuming that one of me/DGB has to be scum.

VOTE: Empking

Once again, Crazy refuses to take the easy way out.

There aren't many scum I know who do that.

Seriously, why the HELL is Crazy at L-1? Ranmaru, Empking: Get off him. That would go for Amrun too, but she's been reading scummy enough to me (third behind Quilford/imaginality) that I'd rather use my time convincing the people I'm pretty sure are town.

[Tarhalindur]

@Quilford - Why don't you think Smalls is scum? He wasn't exactly on the top of my list before, but crap like this makes me nervous:

I don't see Quilford being that scumlike...

so don't think smalls is mafia guys

he reminds me of a guy called brundibar in my newbie here
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=16915

fuck my tone it varies in basically every game I'm in

I explained why I missed the kunkstar wagon and the rest of your post is just shitty stuff brought up against my predecessor

your repetition of

Yeah that's not a town explanation

Yeah, that doesn't look like town rhetoric to me.

That's not town.

That tone isn't a town tone.

That's NOT Quiltown.

is a kind of written tic I notice myself writing in posts as mafia and I'm pretty sure I've seen it performed by other players too

plus your slot's history is friggin terrible and the replacing out reeks of scum

VOTE: Tarharlindur

This attack/attempt at defense is bullshit.

All those "not town"? I was pulling that ALL THE TIME in Mafia Invictus as town - not a fucking coincidence given how much my modern townstyle comes down to finding the players whose tone is off and/or are conveniently on the sidelines. It's null at worst, definitely not a scumtell.

Also look at how Quilford conveniently cuts out where I try to EXPLAIN why I don't think his posts come from a town perspective and how he simply dismisses my points against Ameliaslay.

I'll take a look at his completed games to be sure, but I have difficulty seeing him post like this in this game while the same alignment he was in Mafia Invictus where he was posting like this:

Hmmmm....


.......

.....No. Not wagonning.

Found a live one!

VOTE: Kublai Khan

Meaning?

I don't hate Fate, mate.

Why have you not voted at all, then?

{danceHello, Gut, Quilford, silavor} <-- I'm thinking that this is a good starting group to look for scum in.

Why?

Show me whereyou answered my question.

Now go take a look at Quil's ISO here.

See the difference? Quil was asking questions in Invictus. He was trying to determine alignment and THEN pushing a player. Here he's deciding who he wants to push and THEN looking for a case.

There's a difference between those two kinds of behaviors. We call the first "scumhunting" and the second "scum looking for a justification for a mislynch".

And let's take special note of these posts (representing Quil's reaction to silavor's quickhammer D1 in Mafia Invictus):

Dance's joke makes me think he thought this wasn't going through so we'll give a tiinny bit of town there.

I really didn't,

the fuck

? Threw a vote on to see what would happen,

didn't think you guys would fucking lynch what the fuck

FoS: I don't even know

- PBuG

HOLY SHIT GUYS

WHAT THE FUCK

SILAVOR 4 OPPORTUNISTIC SCUM

VOTE: silavor

terrible hammer reeks of opportunism

I'm certain all townspeople have an Invictus kill.

Compare to his response to kunkstar hammering in this game:

oh.

did Kunkstar hammer with absolutely no reasoning or comment again?

I'm beginning to think he's post restricted, lol.

Hmm. Why the difference in the response, I WONDER, I WONDER.

Couldn't POSSIBLY be because he was town in Mafia Invictus and is scum here, right guys?[/sarcasm]

[Amrun]

Unvote; Vote: Quilford ; Vote: smalls

YEAH I'. FLiP FLOPPING0SO WHAT

I am uneasy about my Quilford vote but I've decided my previous votes needed to change and I need to re-read some shit. To figure out what I'm doing.

This game really deserves some love from me.

Tar I don't understand why you are town when your predecessors are scum.

Please make a case on slay /quilford. I am having a hard time sorting out my feelings on that slot because scumslay vs. Quiltown is warring.

[Empking]

Unvote: Crazy
Vote: Quilford

Tar's logic makes sense. I don't think its a town tell though (for Tar) because I expect he'd be eager to look good as scum (moreso than Crazy.)

[Amrun]

^ I was kind of thinking the same thing, but Tar's post along with the mason's urgings earned Tar an unvote ... For now.