Mafia 88- Return to New Catania- Game Over!

[skitzer]

I've seen Sens do this before as town, fwiw.

If you're going to wander into the realms of meta-land, look at some of my games. I'm not exactly high and mighty activity man, no matter what role I am.

The Der Hammer vote is obviously based on the same suspicions from yesterday, and Sera's flip only adds icing to the lynch cake. But a replacement may tweak things up a bit.

Let's wait till it gets here.

[Xylthixlm]

I've seen Sens do this before as town, fwiw.

By itself that means nothing.

[skitzer]

I don't want to get in some weird argument, but to me it means something and I can get it by itself. But if you want, it's in a post on the last page.

[Xylthixlm]

?

I was replying to Xtoxm, not you.

[Shanba]

I've seen Sens do this before as town, fwiw.

By itself that means nothing.

I'd love to hear the explanation for this.

[Shanba]

Doing it before that point is at best pointless, and at worst a major distraction.

Eh.

TBH, I don't really agree here. I know that if they turn up town, it's not helpful, but if they turn up scum and you get nightkilled, having those sorts of thoughts on the table is useful for town. Furthermore, seeing a possible connection between two people is a viable way of scumhunting. If you start pressuring someone and someone else starts defending him until the wagon starts building steam, at which point he changes direction, it could be used as evidence against both players. Weak evidence, sure, but discarding any evidence on a pre set basis is a good way to lose useful stuff.

That wasn't the greatest example, but I hope you understood what it meant - if, for example, you had two players who you viewed as equally scummy, but one of them seemed to a few other players and the other you couldn't possibly fathom who would be scum with them, then surely the former is more likely to be scum?

I want to hear Claus' result now (if it's a guilty, obviously keep it under wraps if it's an innocent).

[Xylthixlm]

I've seen Sens do this before as town, fwiw.

By itself that means nothing.

I'd love to hear the explanation for this.

A meaningful statement would be "

I've seen Sens do this as town just as often as I've seen him do it as scum

". That would provide information on whether it's a scumtell for him. Just "I've seen Sens do this as town" provides no information on whether it's a scumtell for him, because there's nothing to compare to.

To take an example, I'm told that lurking is my biggest scumtell on IRC. However, I definitely lurk as town, just a little less than I do as scum. The fact that I lurk as town doesn't negate the scumtell.

[Elmo]

Shanba, I don't understand why "Elmo has not given reasons" or "multiple people find Xyl scummy independantly" would lead you to believe that.
Vollsa, that was nice and ambiguous of me - I meant "why is Iamausername scummy"?

[tubby216]

sorry checkin in, please note my signature

[Xtoxm]

My point was that it's not in itself a scumtell.

[Xtoxm]

That's not to say he shouldn't be lynched for it.

[MafiaSSK]

For your guy's information I post a votecount every other vote since the latest vote count

[Ectomancer]

I'm drifting just now. I'll try to refocus on this game in the next week.

[Claus]

Shanba:

On one hand, I feel the day is not really going anywhere - some people picked Sens for lurking, other are voting Xyl for no big reason, and not much seems to be happening. The game could use a kicking in the balls.

On the other hand, I was planning to wait until the to-replace players (there are 4 or 5 of them right now, no?) were replaced, so we could hear their opinion before revealing. What do you (and anyone else?) Think?

BTW, your case on CKD - the forgetting of Sensfan. He did forget about sensfan, but he also did had "disappearance" moments followed by re-reads, and the replacing, and 27-28, makes the "forgetting" look genuine. Posts 20 and 26 are pro-townish. At the moment I think I would like a Yos-lynch or a lurker lynch more.

====

All:

I'd like to hear what you think of the me/yos interaction today.

I'm a bit tired of Yos staying steadfastly in the wall. It is not early game anymore, and there were enough bandwagons in D1, flips in N1, and interactions for someone to scumhunt more than his current "case" on tubby - specially because he finds the time to respond extensively to my questions with his theories about how scumhunting is not useful at the moment - so it is not like he doesn't have time for the game. I read another recent game where he was town, and he was much more useful than this.

His current behavior looks to me like he believes I have investigated him, and don't want to say anything that might incriminate his partners. What do the rest of the town think?

vote: Yos

====

Here is a small list of players and their stated suspicions on D2. Suspicions
followed by * were mostly "Me too's", in parenthesis are former/minor suspicions, and followed by -L are suspicions based mostly on lurking.

If you think I have misrepresented you/someone else, I'd be more than happy to be corrected.

militant ->
xtomx -> Sens-L, Skitzer-L, Xyl*
ectomancer -> militant
tubby -> Sensfan-L, (OGML), Xyl*
Xyl -> Sensfan-L, (Tubby, DH), CKD
CKD ->
Hoopla ->
IAUN -> CKD
Elmo/BM -> Xyl
OGML -> Xyl, Militant*, Elmo/BM
Shanba -> CKD
Volkann -> IAUN, DH, Tubby
DH ->
Skitzer -> DH*
Sensfan ->
MagisTerrain->
Natirasha ->
Farside ->
Yos -> Tubby

====
Other questions:

Volkann

About your suspicion on sobeahero, would you talk more about it? I have actually re-read sobeahero, and he looked more clueless than malicious in the things you pointed out. Why do you think they look scummy?

Tubby

Xyl is increasing in your list as you read his games. Why is that?

MOD

- do you think we're going to have those replacements any time soon? And vote count, please.

[tubby216]

@claus

its in his flare or attitude i am getting from his posts its more of a feeling based off of his tone

[MafiaSSK]

Sorry, forgot who the replacements are for and as thus can not look for them and vote count shall come shortly

[OhGodMyLife]

Claus, I don't recall ever being suspicious of Elmo.

I'm interested in where your Yos vote is going though.

[Claus]

MOD:

The replacement requests are:
Natirasha, Farside, CKD and DH.

OGML

->Indeed, I'm mistaken. I read one of your posts "I agree with Elmo, Xyl seems off" as "I agree. Elmo, Xyl seems off". Anyone else? Especially those without any suspicions by their names.

[Yosarian2]

I'd like to hear what you think of the me/yos interaction today.

I'm a bit tired of Yos staying steadfastly in the wall. It is not early game anymore, and there were enough bandwagons in D1, flips in N1, and interactions for someone to scumhunt more than his current "case" on tubby - specially because he finds the time to respond extensively to my questions with his theories about how scumhunting is not useful at the moment - so it is not like he doesn't have time for the game. I read another recent game where he was town, and he was much more useful than this.

His current behavior looks to me like he believes I have investigated him, and don't want to say anything that might incriminate his partners. What do the rest of the town think?

vote: Yos

Um, no, you clearly haven't investigated me or you wouldn't be voting for me.

This game has been dead since you halfway claimed, Claus. I thought you were going to just take a quick survey of who people thought was scummy, and then you were going to finish claiming. I've been waiting for that for weeks now so we can get back to the damn game. If you've changed your mind and you're not going to claim, then fine, say so, so we can get back to actually scumhunting, before this game stalls out completly.

If you really aren't going to claim today, then I'll go back and re-read, probably end up re-stating my case on Tubby, try to get a wagon going there, especally since nothing else is happening in this game. But it's bizzare for you to kill all momentum in this game and then act like it's somehow my fault.

[OhGodMyLife]

I don't see how he killed the momentum.

[Xylthixlm]

As far as I can tell the momentum in this game consists entirely of lurker bandwagons.

[vollkan]

Ugh...I thought I hit submit. I've lost a post.

Anyway, I was responding to Elmo and Claus's questions to me relating to Sobe/iama. In essence, I'd point you both to the first post I made, which outlines my reasons for suspecting iama.

Claus, you said Sobe struck you as more clueless than malicious. Have you read my arguments on Sobe?

[MafiaSSK]

Xylthixlm (2): Elmo, OhGodMyLife
curiouskarmadog (2): Shanba, Iamausername
militant (1): Ectomancer
SensFan (2):Xylthixlm,tubby216
skitzer (1):Xtoxm
Yosarian2(1): Claus

Not voting: (Der Hammer), (Natirasha), vollkan, Hoopla, magisterrain, Yosarian2, militant, skitzer, (farside22), SensFan

[SensFan]

Alright, so its taking me a little more time than had planned. I will be contributing by THIS weekend. Guaranteed.

[OhGodMyLife]

As far as I can tell the momentum in this game consists entirely of lurker bandwagons.

Well, yes, thats the only momentum you've been adding. Scum.