Double-Dip Mafia, Game Over

[DrippingGoofball]

You're the one that suspected Pom, but shied away from further attacks when I replaced in, aren't you?

[DrippingGoofball]

Post 1174 - you're tripping on your own semantic shoelaces.

[Empking]

You're the one that suspected Pom, but shied away from further attacks when I replaced in, aren't you?

I believe at one point early day 2(?) When pressed I said I had a mild scum read on her.


1176: But semantics isn't how you find scum.

[petroleumjelly]

Day Four Vote Count #6

3 Crazy (Amrun, Ranmaru, Empking)
3 DrippingGoofball (imaginality, Empking, smallpeoples343)
3 Empking (DrippingGoofball, Quilford, Crazy)
2 HackerHuck (Amrun, DrippingGoofball)
1 Ranmaru (smallpeoples343)
1 smallpeoples343 (Ranmaru)

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch. Deadline is August 6 at 5:00 PM PDT.

Not Voting – 1 – HackerHuck

Mod Note

: HackerHuck is being replaced.

[Crazy]

Response to Ranmaru...

Why are you voting Empking?

So what's the town motivation of not calling WLC scum? Is there a benefit to scum not calling Wey scum?

So was the AtE a town tell to you?

Or it could be good scum play since she would get town cred from you. Is this a town tell to you?

I'm voting Empking because I think he is scum. See my earlier posts for more reasons.

The town motivation for DGB to call WLC town was to attempt to save a town read from getting lynched. I can't think of any obvious benefit to scum not trying to lynch WLC; it's a high-risk scenario with very little payoff, if any.

I see AtE as a town-tell with newbies usually; in this case, it's pretty null-ish.

I don't think DGB (or anyone) is capable of anticipating that I'd be giving her significant "town cred" for her actions against the WLC wagon.

[Crazy]

@Quilford - Why don't you think Smalls is scum? He wasn't exactly on the top of my list before, but crap like this makes me nervous:

I don't see Quilford being that scumlike...

so don't think smalls is mafia guys

[Amrun]

I don't think DGB (or anyone) is capable of anticipating that I'd be giving her significant "town cred" for her actions against the WLC wagon.

Uh. lol.

No offense, but that is totally, completely predictable.

DGB is still town, though. Probably.

[Ranmaru]

Amrun, why "Probably"?

[Crazy]

@Amrun - At best DGB would anticipate that defending a townie wagon would be seen as a minor town-tell. She wouldn't have expected anybody to call her obv-town because of it.

@imaginality - Looking at your ISO, I keep seeing your attitude towards smalls being a wishy washy "Is he dumb or is he scum" thing. Why does that have to be a choice - would it be impossible for him to be both? (No offense to smalls here)

[Amrun]

@Amrun - At best DGB would anticipate that defending a townie wagon would be seen as a minor town-tell. She wouldn't have expected anybody to call her obv-town because of it.

Have you ever played with DGB before?

[Ranmaru]

Response to Ranmaru...

Why are you voting Empking?

So what's the town motivation of not calling WLC scum? Is there a benefit to scum not calling Wey scum?

So was the AtE a town tell to you?

Or it could be good scum play since she would get town cred from you. Is this a town tell to you?

I'm voting Empking because I think he is scum. See my earlier posts for more reasons.

The town motivation for DGB to call WLC town was to attempt to save a town read from getting lynched. I can't think of any obvious benefit to scum not trying to lynch WLC; it's a high-risk scenario with very little payoff, if any.

I see AtE as a town-tell with newbies usually; in this case, it's pretty null-ish.

I don't think DGB (or anyone) is capable of anticipating that I'd be giving her significant "town cred" for her actions against the WLC wagon.

Crazy, have you played with Empking before?

Mafia can do the same, to get town cred. The mislynch still happened, because of KunkSCUM. Was her reasoning for WeyTOWN good? Did you agree with it?

I think it's null regardless. To see what I mean, see Glowball in Newbie 1091; IE: She used AtE strategically.

[Crazy]

Have you ever played with DGB before?

I've played with DGB like 2 or 3 times, but it was long time ago. Why?

Crazy, have you played with Empking before?

Yes, and I understand that he has an unorthodox playstyle. That doesn't excuse him from craplogic and his cryptic posting that serves no good purpose other than to be intentionally unhelpful. I swear, when I last played with him as town (A 6p Lovers game, don't remember the number), he was NOT this bad.

Mafia can do the same, to get town cred. The mislynch still happened, because of KunkSCUM. Was her reasoning for WeyTOWN good? Did you agree with it?

Yes, but doing so in that particular moment would have been enormously high risk for very little gain. Tell me - did all the "town cred" that DGB got from her actions really help her much? I'm the only one that called her obv-town because of it, and I doubt she would anticipate that. Everyone else just jumped on the "Ooooh, scum could do it toooooo" wagon. Scum can't read minds, you know.

I obviously didn't agree with DGB's defense of WLC at the time, since I thought WLC was scum. Whether it was a good defense or not is irrelevant to the point I am making - I honestly don't even remember.

[Amrun]

You speak with great authority about what DGB would have done or would not have done and it's strange.

[Crazy]

It's just giving anyone too much credit to think she'd be like "Oh, despite incredible risks involved, I will call WLC town in the off-chance that one player will try to break through the WIFOM and call me obv-town because of it, even though it's more likely that the majority of the game will think nothing of it."

[Amrun]

You're kind of missing the point.

[petroleumjelly]

Tarhalindur replaces HackerHuck, effective immediately. Thanks!

[Crazy]

And your point is that DGB is a supergenius that can read minds and determine exactly how everyone is going to react to whatever she does?

(Even so, the amount of "town cred" she gained from the maneuver didn't help much at all.)

Seriously, nearly every town-tell in existence can be countered with "Oh, but scum can do that too for town cred," but we really have to draw the line at some point and say "Nobody is

that

freakin' smart."

[Tarhalindur]

Gotta keep my main playing in at least one game, you know.

Read to end of D2 before officially replacing in.

One vote gets to wait until I actually finish reading.

Second vote doesn't have to wait, because there's no way AmeliaSlay was town and that means Quil is scum by virtue of replacing into a scum role.

Unvote, Unvote, Vote: Quilford

More to come shortly.

[Amrun]

And your point is that DGB is a supergenius that can read minds and determine exactly how everyone is going to react to whatever she does?

(Even so, the amount of "town cred" she gained from the maneuver didn't help much at all.)

Seriously, nearly every town-tell in existence can be countered with "Oh, but scum can do that too for town cred," but we really have to draw the line at some point and say "Nobody is

that

freakin' smart."

Not at all what I'm trying to say. You're still missing the point.

Tar yay <3 Be town k

[Amrun]

Aw I just remember that Tar replaced RC

Boo Tar is scum

[Tarhalindur]

Second scum is Imaginality (horribly, horribly under the radar). Given that this is a PJ game and 16 players, existence of a third scum is doubtful.

Vote: Imaginality

Quilford/SlaySlay case coming momentarily.

[Tarhalindur]

unvote

vote: Hiraki, Ranmaru

To answer the questions asked of my votes, by Empking. I initially placed only one vote and randomly to give myself the opportunity to look over the thread. I hadn't yet decided how I wanted to use both votes, although I thought in tandem is a little strange, as second votes might be more useful to place pressure.

Yeah that's not a town explanation.

To comment on one of the wagons, I was initially a bit confused by the smalls wagon-- to me he reads very newb, but not necessarily newb scum. But as the latter end of the thread progresses he seems very willing-- almost falling over himself to accomodate requests for outside of game activity on other sites. That over-eager to please mentality strikes me wrong. I also really didn't like the comment in post #198, where he mentions that we should look tomorrow for those attacking him hardest. That being said, I don't know that this sways my balance toward a vote.

"Strikes me wrong", "don't know that this sways my balance towards a vote". Yeah, that doesn't look like town rhetoric to me. Slay knows snails (screw smalls, snails is better) is town, so she's giving herself a way out.

As to reasons for my current votes, I haven't really been fond of the tone of Hiraki's posts.. he seems pretty excitable early game. However, I really haven't liked either Lowkey or Ranmaru's method of scum-hunting. Both of them seem to rely on a form of metagaming, that forgive me as I haven't played in a while seems like going beyond the pale. As in this post by Ranmaru:

Actually, I was asking because before he has been set to visible. I told him I would be checking his recent posts to make sure he is following up with the game, but I didn't want to sound like a creeper. He usually jokes around and I'm fine with throwing some sillyness toward him. He knows that I have called him out and multiple others and still do. I am sad at him being invisible.

The only time I remember ever watching who's visible/not-- timestamps, etc. was as scum looking for justifications to point fingers at other players. Lowkey and Ranmaru seem to use similar logic to point fingers at smalls and redcoyote, on what I think of as weak cases, especially given my preference towards only looking in game at in game behavior.

Slay's still wishy-washy as hell AND she's trying to discredit scumhunting methods (and she ADMITS that they're scumhunting, which is utterly and completely inconsistent with suggesting Loki/Ranmaru are scum). That's not town.

More importantly, note the tone of the post. That tone isn't a town tone.

As to reasons for my current votes, I haven't really been fond of the tone of Hiraki's posts.. he seems pretty excitable early game.

This is your reasoning for a vote?

Why me amci. Why are you so scummy?

If the latter is directed at me, I'm confused as to the amci part. As to the former, yes... you've been very angry early on at any votes and in general in tone-- or on the defensive it seems. While some might read that as pro-town, I don't necessarily.

Also, could I get clarification from you as to what you meant by this post?

Damn.

Damn Empking.

You voted on both sides of the argument.

More wishy-washy - note the "don't necessarily".

Couple of quick comments, questions:
LK: Post 361 questions re: N0 not looking attractive, are you referencing a prior post?
Hiraki: Post 362: You haven't really addressed the logic of why posts ending in a ? are generally bad.. do tell.

Crazy: (post 377) Your analysis of kunkstar seemed a little stating the obvious... "shape up- ship out"... why bother? Content fluff?
Kunkstar: (post 381) Good catch (I think) on Pom not really saying anything other than "scummy" to move her vote from rvs to real. I'd like to hear more about this from Pom.

More later....

Oh look at those comments re: Crazy and Kunkstar. Should be self-explanatory, eh?

VOTE: Ranmaru
VOTE: DGB
The latter is beyond scummy.

OH HEY LOOK WHO COMPLETELY IGNORED THE KUNKSTAR WAGON D3.

ALSO OH HEY LOOK WHOSE TONE IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM MAFIA INVICTUS.

Fuck. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BUDDEEEEE

Is this a claim to be his mason buddy, as I heavily suspect you at the moment and yeah.

VOTE: DGB
VOTE: Ranmaru

One of the two is definitely scum.

Yeah no. Voting Ran despite obvious mason claim? Very very emotional tone? That's NOT Quiltown.

Why aren't we wagoning Quilford to death again?

[Ranmaru]

WTF.

HAVE YOU NOT SEEN QUIL SCUM?

I HAVE. I LOST TO HIM IN LYLO.

I SHOULD FUCKING KNO.

WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU VOTING IMAG? HE'S SO PRO TOWN GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE

[Ranmaru]

Wait...

Run the existance of a thir...

Fuck it. I'll keep looking for scum, I'm not going to just assume two scum.

[Ranmaru]

Anyways, I'll actually read your posts and give thoughts on them.