Teleportation Mafia Universe ONE (MAFIA A WINS!)

[CSL]

Day 2 Vote Count

CSL ( 2 ) Rhinox popsofctown
elvis_knits ( 0 )
evilsnail ( 3 ) Raskol Ellibereth farside22
farside22 ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 1 ) evilsnail
Hoopla ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
mykonian ( 0 )
ojanen ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 4 ) gayle Hoopla elvis_knits fishythefish
Raskol ( 1 ) mykonian
Rhinox ( 1 ) ojanen
Not Voting ( 1 ) CSL
Total Votes ( 13 )

With 13 alive, 7 needed to lynch.
Deadline: Feb 22nd 19:00 EST

/ghostkill

[elvis_knits]

/ghostkill

Oh, so you're actually here and reading, just not posting content. Good to know.

[elvis_knits]

MY CURRENT THINKING:

CSL ace5993 - scum

elvis_knits - town

evilsnail - town

farside22 - town

fishythefish - neutral/slight scummy

Hoopla flareonage - n/a

gayle - town

mykonian - mindfuck, anti-town actions with town-like sincerity

ojanen - town

popsofctown - scum

Raskol - neutral

Rhinox - scum

Ellibereth - n/a, healthy distrust of this OU player

[mykonian]

apart from the fact that assumed that scum doesn't want to get teleported, my theory could favor scum, what have I done that was antitown? Asking for a serious game, in stead of waiting for information during day two? Didn't think so.

Elvis, you know you have only one point against me, and that is the mistake. Now quit the "He is weird but he might actually be town"-stuff, because you are just keeping an opening to vote me in case of a wagon on me. One without reason: Because. I. am. not. scummy.

And mindfuck is probably not a nice word, I rather don't have you calling me names.

[elvis_knits]

I'm not calling you a name. I'm saying you fuck with my mind, and make it hard for me to judge you.

If you really want me to list all the ways that I disagree with you and find you anti-town I will do that later as I don't have the time right now. But I have disagreed with you on several points. Your anti-town plans regarding telportation, your WIFOM read of CSL, your recent "hurry up and lynch" plan for us, and your "let's stop bandwagoning so many people while I start a totally new bandwagon," and how you are now voting then unvoting for apparently no reason (seeing as the people you vote haven't even posted yet before you move on to the next vote).

[Ellibereth]

TOWN
Elvis
Hoop
Gayle
Myko
Oj

PEOPLE THAT SHOULD BE TOWN BUT I FEEL QUEESY ABOUT
farside
Raskol

PEOPLE THAT CONFUSE ME
CSL

EVERYONE ELSE
Fishy
Pops
Evil

[mykonian]

I'm not calling you a name. I'm saying you fuck with my mind, and make it hard for me to judge you.

If you really want me to list all the ways that I disagree with you and find you anti-town I will do that later as I don't have the time right now. But I have disagreed with you on several points. Your anti-town plans regarding telportation, your WIFOM read of CSL, your recent "hurry up and lynch" plan for us, and your "let's stop bandwagoning so many people while I start a totally new bandwagon," and how you are now voting then unvoting for apparently no reason (seeing as the people you vote haven't even posted yet before you move on to the next vote).

I saw it as a negative word, sorry.

WIFOM read of CSL: I believe that meta should be used to check which tells show someone is scum. I believe that scum-CSL has other tells then he shows, based on how I know CSL. Meta is an aid to resolve WIFOM.

So, meta read of CSL, please.

Hurry up and get serious, I prefer. In the same spirit I put my vote for who I seriously want to lynch, in stead of using my vote on other people who are scummy too, but who aren't my first choice. I don't see how this is anti town, tbh.

And you show how I vote who I think scummy: everybody knows where I stand, as votes are the clearest point you can make. I'm sorry, but I'm know to do that. And it isn't even antitown. It just upsets a lot of people, and they all give different reasons for it.

[Gayle]

You gave up the fight, EK? I'll reinforce the Myko Attack Squad later tonight, since Myko gave me a letter of challenge in this post.

Until then, you must remain vigilant.

[elvis_knits]

Myko, I guess that I usually see people vote who they think is scummiest, and only unvote that person if the person gives a good response with a good explanation, or maybe if there is a wagon on another player they find scummy.

So when you vote a player and then unvote them without any resolution, I don't really understand the point of it. You don't even get a chance to see the response of the person you voted because by the time the player even gets online your vote is on somebody else. They aren't going to feel nearly as much pressure, and they have virtually no incentive to take you seriously.

[elvis_knits]

You gave up the fight, EK? I'll reinforce the Myko Attack Squad later tonight, since Myko gave me a letter of challenge in this post.

Until then, you must remain vigilant.

lol... I'm on it!

[elvis_knits]

TOWN
Elvis
Hoop
Gayle
Myko
Oj

PEOPLE THAT SHOULD BE TOWN BUT I FEEL QUEESY ABOUT
farside
Raskol

PEOPLE THAT CONFUSE ME
CSL

EVERYONE ELSE
Fishy
Pops
Evil

You forgot Rhinox

[Ellibereth]

Everyone else.

[Rhinox]

vote Rhinox

.

Rhinox, why again was your catchup post for 80% about me or the question I asked?

Pops, Rhinox is someone who has no problem playing town. It are the small things that matter, not the overall impression, you probably won't find him with that.

There is more I need to respond to, but in skimming the thread, I saw this and wanted to respond now.

Myko, why are you bringing this up again, and what type of answer are you looking for?

Lets stop calling it a catch up post. It was my first post in the game, that got me caught up to that point. It was mostly about you because I thought you were scummiest and I wanted to push for your lynch without making my points convoluted by making my post too big and including too much. I intended to branch out from that starting point a lot sooner than I ended up doing, but whatever. I dislike that you continue to refer to that post as a "catch up" post, inferring that because it is a catch up post there needs to be some form of summary or commenting on multiple players.

What do you mean in your second paragraph I quoted above?

[mykonian]

I forgot if I got an answer on that. I can´t remember. So in case you forgot, you could answer now, otherwise you could just answer the same.

I believe that if someone is basing his read on you based on overall play, he will always think you town. Your posts are clear, your arguments well thought through, and all you need to do further is to have some new ideas to look protown.

You have to analyze closer to catch you as scum, I think.

[evilsnail]

Too bad Fishy and Evilsnail didn't use all that time they spent arguing to hunt far more obvious scum: "Lurk and Lie" CSL,"Wagon Hop" Pops, and "Respond to everything with a flurry of misleading arguments" Myko.

The people voting evilsnail for Elli's point are being ridiculous. Why do you guys keep going for this "scumslip" nonsense? Elli made a similar point about Jack, and look what happened. Please don't lynch over such a stupid reason.

I like this post, and not just because of the point about me. Scum-Gayle has no real reason to tie herself to three wagons that clearly. It could really come back to haunt her.

Pops's response to Ojanen seems off. Considering that pops is pursuing a policy lynch on CSL and not making a case on anyone himself, dismissing all available cases out of hand is really unproductive. Also, I think Ojanen made some fair points about Rhinox's play. I read over pops's ISO and she hasn't contributed real cases in a long time (which I realise now some players have been pointing out for a while). I don't know how this measures up to pops's meta, but it is certainly not helping us.

[popsofctown]

My vote for pops:

As I said in my last post, I dislike pops's play in the DGB wagon. I don't like the reasons he gave for voting either time he voted DGB, and I don’t like the way he hopped off the wagon in the middle, again with fairly bad reasoning. I find it difficult to believe pops was being honest about his opinions on DGB – much more like he was looking for excuses to hop on that wagon. Pops hasn’t given many votes this game, nor a huge number of cases, and not believing one of them was earnest is a significant thing.

Well, I was earnest *shrug*

My gut says funny things as I read pops’s posts. It doesn’t feel like his agenda is to find and lynch scum, but nor does it feel like he’s just attacking people to look good. The closest I can come is it feels like he is disagreeing people for its own sake. I don’t really know what to make of this – it could be another way to try and look protown, or it could just be a playstyle thing. This isn't part of my case.

I'm finding a lot more things I disagree with ITT than things I agree with. If I can figure out in which cases this is linked to alignment, I'd be good to go.

I don’t much like pop’s reactions to the wagon on him. The “DGB is going to ruin this game” line is strawmanning the case on him by saying it’s based on a dead and controversial player, when AFAIC that simply isn’t true. Then there’s “don’t lynch me, I post stuff. Lynch the lurkers” – which is a bit horrible because there’s no particular reason to think the lurkers are scum.

You have to understand what I'm saying. I feel like people are accusing eachother based on their varying interpretations of DGBtown. And usually that's a valid way to go about things, because the people who read the player wrong often did so because they are town. But DGB is a very unusual player and I think townies can have very varying judgments of her play, so they are using a point that isn't very valid.

I was saying "don't lynch me, i post stuff", in response to "lynch him, he doesn't post stuff". I think it's a very fair response. "there's no particular reason to think the lurkers are scum" is a false statement that shows a lack of awareness of site meta: lurking is positively correlated with scumming (not lynchworthy on its own, but this is an accepted tell).

I'm not voting any lurkers for lurking right now, if you'll notice (I'm voting CSL, for poor play up till now and a low level of expected readability), I'm saying if people want to be stupid and lynch someone only because they don't produce content, they should pick someone who, you know, ACTUALLY DOESN'T PRODUCE CONTENT.

Incidentally, unreadable players whose flip wouldn’t tell us much and who don’t help the town are pretty good choices for teleporting, if you don’t have any mega scumreads.

This is a good point.. unvote. Looks like we'll probably be doing push push pull, and the teleporter may very well push CSL for us. I'm a fan of "leave policy kills to the vig", there's a lot of good logic behind it.

@Hoopla: who is scum? Why are you posting so briefly, and not giving us reads?

@other people: is this usual for Hoopla?

The only unusual part is anyone complaining

In particular @pops: you are advocating the policy lynch of CSL for being unreadable. Do you find Hoopla more readable than CSL? If so, how do you read him?

Hoopla is much more readable than CSL. I've only played one game with the two of them, but I felt like I could see much more evidence of alignment out of Hoopla than out of CSL. She started out lolsheeping like this in the other game, then started actually posting occasionally. It was enough.

Rhinox case is ok. Pretty poor posts on DGB, and deadline activity certainly fits well with scum. He goes on my scumlist, which looks now goes pops>CSL>Rhinox. I'd settle for any of these lynches if it got us a quick lynch.

Wat. You can't have CSL lynched and teleported too. Why would you settle for his lynch if you yourself said it doesn't give any information?

unvote

. I'm going to take the advice Fish himself won't take. If we make lynches we know are suboptimal to catch up with the OU, we've already lost.

[popsofctown]

crap. do you have to capitalize red? mod help please

[popsofctown]

Too bad Fishy and Evilsnail didn't use all that time they spent arguing to hunt far more obvious scum: "Lurk and Lie" CSL,"Wagon Hop" Pops, and "Respond to everything with a flurry of misleading arguments" Myko.

The people voting evilsnail for Elli's point are being ridiculous. Why do you guys keep going for this "scumslip" nonsense? Elli made a similar point about Jack, and look what happened. Please don't lynch over such a stupid reason.

I like this post, and not just because of the point about me. Scum-Gayle has no real reason to tie herself to three wagons that clearly. It could really come back to haunt her.

Pops's response to Ojanen seems off. Considering that pops is pursuing a policy lynch on CSL and not making a case on anyone himself, dismissing all available cases out of hand is really unproductive. Also, I think Ojanen made some fair points about Rhinox's play. I read over pops's ISO and she hasn't contributed real cases in a long time (which I realise now some players have been pointing out for a while). I don't know how this measures up to pops's meta, but it is certainly not helping us.

omg ur right. lynching my strongest town read makes WAY more sense than a policy lynch.

vote: Rhinox

. except no,

unvote

.

Stringing up people as fast as humanly possible is the scum's idea of productive. Which is the root of why several people are suspicious of you.

[popsofctown]

/ghostkill

Oh, so you're actually here and reading, just not posting content. Good to know.

You're suprised?

Go to that page where you you can see someone's last 100 posts. It won't matter what games their in. CSL's is post after post after post of posts that are fit into a single line. I jawdropped when I saw it.

[popsofctown]

You should have been actively looking for scum, and been pushing for somebody you thought was scum to get lynched. Instead you were waiting for the scum to come to you, and when it didn't happen you went "oh well, vote dgb or abr or whatever you people have decided." You should have been proactive. You weren't.

Sorry for multiposting, accidentally read the thread out of order.





Are you serious e_k? In deadline zone, you wanted me to find someone totally new I felt was scummy, convince a majority of the town to abandon all the popular wagons to go after that person, and then lynched them? You need to be more practical. Seriously.

[popsofctown]

Since there have been calls for me to dig harder for scum although nothing jumps out at me, I'm going to do some isos. Or at least one. Let's not underestimate the power League of Legends has at calling me away.

what are your scumtells when you are scum?

Oh come on this question sucks why should I share my scum tells to hurt me in other games?

I can already hear the people ready to lynch me for the above

but telling people your scum tells does hurt you for other games.
idk I range with being quiet, lurky to talkative depending on the game. I do bus my scum partner on many occasions I can think of. I think I jump on cases just with a me too kind of post at times if I feel lost in a game and I don't know where else to go. I notice I don't try to motivate a game and I purposly miss things that are scum tells from my partner if I think they are safe from a lynch or being voted on.
Obviously my scum tell is on a wide range because acting the same in a game means people know you to be scum and use that meta against you.

Pre-emptive defenses are generally unnecessary and generally little scumtells from players who have a greater concern for preserving their lives. I'm surprissed I missed this (bolding mine).

unvote:
vote: Gayle

Farside has voted a whole whole lot in this thread, that's some of what concerns me. She's ready and rarin to go if a lynch can reach L-0, but goes elsewhere if it won't, as it seems to me. That's not to say she doesn't have player she decides to not vote at all and declare town, she does, but that too seems overly correlated with lynchability ITT.

unvote:
vote: Raskol

Fos: DGB
Fos: Gayle

(your comments about stradey talk not providing scum hunting and thinking RVS is better is terrible logic

Lots of mobility.

ABR doesnt' feel town to me. Call it gut but I'm just thinking of our last game together and he feels off to me.

Gut reads are ok. Posting gut reads without voting is fail, it tells no one anything, but is sometimes used by scum for "it's ok for me to BW this person later".

okay deffinately not seeing this as EK town play now.
Yeah it's meta based and orginally I saw she was absent from MS so her lack of comments was expected but now I don't see this as the overly vocal EK that is typically town.

unvote:
vote: EK

Farside votes E_k, but doesn't stick with it when it doesn't gain that much popularity. I didn't see E_k do much to change her mind.

unvote:
vote: flareonage

Still 3 more players to read thru but this needs to be addressed!

The unvote off e_k is gonna be really good right? Since farside spent tons of time in the thread explaining why e_k was scummy, right? Except no. Who farside wants to lynch has little correlation with whom she has scumtells for.

Unless e_k has done mystical towntell 3.14159 that no scum players know of yet, she can't be worse than flareonage, who has hardly even posted. Farside doesn't even explain here why e_k is off the hook. She just is.

But yeah farside is total town. So is elvis.

Mykonian and ABR are still scum. Mykonian is the current vote leader, though. I don't care which one of those scumbags dies first.

unvote:
vote: DGB

She gets all up on myko and that slip that plum posted but says nothing in regards to flame's comment.

I'm going into the ABR school of scum hunting and taking the head off the snake here.

Yes, farside was also on the DGB wagon, although to read D2 sometimes you might be surprised how little it's mentioned.

Sorry I'm not bitting on this. First I have DGB clearly not reading the game at hand. She then calls ABR on not reading which is

hypocritcal

of her.
She attacks evil for answering the question about what you do as scum but doesnt' attack fishy or myself for answering that same question
Attacks myko for asking the question.

Attacks EK for meta then backs off without a reason.

Declares Flare town and raskol is agreeing with her even with this quote and after everyone's slip comment with myko

Yeah but scum is influencing all that strategy talk and they're gonna push for the town to do what they want. I think the teleporter should just keep to themselves and do whatever they want with their action

Flares reasoning is completely trying to just fluff it as nothing.

Also I will note DGB tried horribly to discredit me in my comments while adding nothing to what I said.
Awesome stuff.
I'm calling DGB/Raskol/Flare scum team with either pops (for defending but saying she wasn't defending DGB comment) or EK for saying I can't read DGB and offers next to nothing in regards to her.

Bolded mine. Lol. She hypocritically attacks DGB for backing off on a case for no reason, which she's the queen of, and in the same post says DGB is scummy for her hypocrisy. Which is then, hypocritical. It actually makes a recursive loop of hypocrisy if you look at it.... [/CS major]

Gayle is my hero and makes me love her more now then ever in this game.

unvote:
vote: pops

I will tell you why I don't see ABR as scum. First I have seen ABR not post much as town in the begining. I asked him to lay out a case and I am leaning on personal issues between him and DGB.
That said I would go for a pops lynch based on her comments towards DGB, not offering much in convo, following others and well I think she is scum.

This is a vote that isn't opportunistic, granted, because ABR was an easier lynch at that point than I was. But by that point she had already defended ABR too much, trying to amp up support for the DGB side of the coin until the claim occured.


The fact that DGB went for me of all people is very bizarre at this point in the game. With her number one suspect down, she had a massive backlog of prior votes she could go back to. Intuitively, one of these people should be a better lynch than me.

She attacks me for my comments towards DGB, which had a very large overlap with hers. The only time she mentioned me being scummy before this point is when she said I could be scum for todally defending my scumpartner DGB, which is invalid at that point. She sheeps onto Gayle's case to the exclusion of what she herself generally developed, when sheeping is something she said she does as scum.

In a later post [not quoted] she "improves" her case by attacking me for attacking Gayle: a player she herself attacked with a vote and thought scummy earlier. You can be wrong about Gayle, but only if you're farside.

unvote:
vote: ABR

Granted, I voted the player as well, but farside defended ABR a lot more than I did. She votes him in response to the softcounterclaim (backspaced it out of this post, should have left it, eh), which really didn't seem like that much to me. So again, doesn't seem like farside is following stated convictions with votes.

Overall I don't like farside's D1 play.

vote: farside22

Next I ought to read evilsnail because I'm somewhat worried that I defend him in error.

[CSL]

Pops, can't use quotation marks for color tags.

[evilsnail]

omg ur right. lynching my strongest town read makes WAY more sense than a policy lynch.

vote: Rhinox

. except no,

unvote

.

Stringing up people as fast as humanly possible is the scum's idea of productive. Which is the root of why several people are suspicious of you.

Your response has nothing to do with what I said. I never said you should vote Rhinox. Just that it seems weird that you've been dismissing all of these cases without giving us anything better. I would understand if you felt you had a stronger case, but you don't.

That has nothing to do with stringing up people as fast as possible either. And I don't see how this is at the "root of why several people are suspicious of me." I'm being wagonned for a lack of activity/content, which is precisely the opposite.

If this is you readying yourself to vote me, please try harder next time.

[Raskol]

Sorry guys, I need to be replaced. This game is moving way too fast for the amount of time I have to spend on mafia these days. I don't see being able to pick up my activity any time soon.

unvote

[popsofctown]

omg ur right. lynching my strongest town read makes WAY more sense than a policy lynch.

vote: Rhinox

. except no,

unvote

.

Stringing up people as fast as humanly possible is the scum's idea of productive. Which is the root of why several people are suspicious of you.

Your response has nothing to do with what I said. I never said you should vote Rhinox. Just that it seems weird that you've been dismissing all of these cases without giving us anything better. I would understand if you felt you had a stronger case, but you don't.

That has nothing to do with stringing up people as fast as possible either. And I don't see how this is at the "root of why several people are suspicious of me." I'm being wagonned for a lack of activity/content, which is precisely the opposite.

If this is you readying yourself to vote me, please try harder next time.

see 1195. it's kind of like the case on you, except accurate.