Team Mafia: White Flag Mafia

[Sotty7]

Fluff can you show your working when it comes to mith scum. Especially when you say things like:

"...and keeps suggesting Amrun is scum too." - Er, no... pretty much the opposite. I didn't (and don't) think Amrun is scum unless with DH, and didn't (and don't) have any interest in lynching her.

Enough of your posts were structured such that she was the second pick to DH it seemed.

Right now I'm not seeing what you see.

[Thor665]

Driving home from work and thinking about things - I don't think the Marble wagon is good. His start of Day 1 and start of Day 2 play just doesn't strike me as scum play.

[Amrun]

I will need more than that to dissuade me, Thor.

[Thor665]

I have a beard.

[Amrun]

Your beard is lovely, but it doesn't help me here.

[Thor665]

I think the ease he used meta to clear me Day 1 while not having a clear meta setup for himself looks town.
I think the start of Day 2 when he worked through a bunch of cases, clarified his reads, and tried to focus town in also looked town.
The current case on him mostly seems to be connections and issues with scumhunting at a time when DGB sprayed everyone pretty well, and town is clearly tired.

[Amrun]

And your lack of case on Sotty is better because...?

I do grant that the way he cleared you is a point in his favor.

[Amrun]

Oh my God, just had a huge moment of "Thor and Llamarble make a very good scumpair" moment.

Not that that means a lot except I still want to lynch Llamarble.

[Amrun]

EBWOP: paranoi, not moment, at the end of that sentence.

[Thor665]

Cases are overrated (I don't know about the rest of you, but though I've been caught as scum and the person "catching" me did a huge case...the case was never actually true except by happenstance), and what does that have to do with me being against Llamarble lynch?

InB4 your Thor/Llamarble pairing is the same case DGB presented.

[Amrun]

I don't even remember the one DGB presented.

Just because cases involve a degree of confirmation biias doesn't make cases bunk. Without them, mafia is just a gut game, and I don't play that way.

Like I said, my moment of paranoia doesn't change anything except that. I don't care if Llamarble cleared you with meta. I was liking mith+Llamarble for several reasons including that they fit the "one on, one off" scenario I think is most likely with DGB. I realized you fit it too, as well as marble calling you both town for inexplicable reasons; he even "messed up" his chart in your favor.

[Thor665]

Yeah...and I called him on it...y'know, because a buddy with one scum mate left alive in white flag would do that?

How about we discuss why I'm clearing him - you indicated the way he cleared me was a town tell. I submit it's as good of a tell as anything you presented towards his scumminess.

[Amrun]

Your opinion varies from mine on the level of Llamarble's scumminess.

Present a case on Sotty that trumps mine on Llamarble and mith.

[Equinox]

Why the heck am I being allowed to coast? I haven't posted anything substantial in days and none of you are scratching your heads at this.

I'm actually having a lot of trouble with my reads right now, since I'm reading all of you as town to varying degrees and that's just wrong. The last few pages have not helped my confusion any. I have a few reading tasks lined up for this game, so I'll get to working on those full-speed ahead over the weekend. I'll be away from Internet access more often than not over Saturday and Sunday, though, so I won't have a giant wall of doom and reads until late Sunday or Monday at the earliest; I may throw softballs in the meantime to help me get grips and whatnot, but I think everything I need to find the scum is in these last 47 pages. I'm just blind to it.

Since Equinox has no idea what she's doing, I'll go ahead and talk briefly about what one of the team members said when he went through the first 20 pages of the thread. He has town reads on Chris B, mith, and DemonHybrid, and he leans town on Sotty7 and Thor665. By process of elimination, he has LlamaFluff, Llamarble, and Amrun listed as his preferred lynch targets and in that order. I can elaborate further on these by request; I have all of the stuff here, but I'd rather not clog up the thread with it all until I've had a chance to look in the thread and see if there were rebuttals made in Day 2 that my teammate missed by virtue of not having read that day yet.

Actually, going through all that, something interests me...

Llamarble, what is your current read of Thor665? I'm not talking about partner possibilities here; what do you think of him on his own merits?

[Equinox]

Amrun, I'm curious... Did Klazam say anything about DrippingGoofball and SocioPath in your team's thread?

[Amrun]

Yes. After requesting that we wait to give input until after Socio had responded to Klazam's case, Klazam asked us to evaluate his case on Sociopath, which prompted me to read the thread for the first time. He was very confused by DGB and didn't have any definite read on her, but felt that socio was scummy. Something in there wasn't adding up for him, so he asked our opinions. I was really the only one to take a vested interest in helping him (hence my replace-in later when Klazam got busy irl).

At that time, I clamored for Klazam to re-evaluate his reads on these two players, because I had a strong scumread on DGB (and by virtue of this, a townread on Socio). Klazam noted this in thread by saying something about "the bees in my hive are buzzing about DGB."

He still didn't totally agree, and then he went v/la and never truly came back.

[Amrun]

Something that just occurred to me: Thor, if you don't believe in the value of cases, why did you encourage Chris B to re-state his case on Sotty earlier? At first, you said you wanted more discussion of Sotty going on - but why, if cases are all bunk? If you want more cases and discussion of Sotty going on, why is it important that it come from someone other than yourself?

[Thor665]

Something that just occurred to me: Thor, if you don't believe in the value of cases, why did you encourage Chris B to re-state his case on Sotty earlier? At first, you said you wanted more discussion of Sotty going on - but why, if cases are all bunk? If you want more cases and discussion of Sotty going on, why is it important that it come from someone other than yourself?

I stated exactly why already.
Simply because I believe al cases are silly, overblown, self-gratifying, fool-fests does not mean I'm silly enough to believe everyone is as brilliant as me in recognizing this, and they always feel safer and better doing some sheeping after seeing a really thick and meaty post that pets their fragile soul and tells them 'yeah, buddy, here it is, here's a nice safe case to sheep. Look at it, look, it...it's HUGE, man, that thing has to be correct because, I mean, it's soooo thick and...and...y'know, has QUOTES and...comments after quotes and then there's like, this CONCLUSION thing, and it says he's right and his target is scum. Wow, yeah, I should sheep that because it's waaaaay more trustworthy than, y'know, flipping a coin or something.'

Yeah, pretty much for those reasons.

[Greymarble]

General nothingness will be rectified this weekend! Hooray!

[Llamarble]

General nothingness will be rectified this weekend! Hooray!

[Amrun]

Thor: What I'm saying is why is that important that that case come from OTHER PLAYERS? At the very least, you could have quoted this post of yours, since all you wanted was a rehashing anyway:

@Chris B

Though i consider my skills reading DGB to be roughly akin to my skills reading braille, my team of birdies all generally agree that DGB 1. doesn't care for town games and 2. would have been more...DGBish (derpy? I dunno) if she had been town. Since I can't read the silly bint anyway, she's a solid A1 lynch in my opinion.

I'll add in Socio/my call on how she's called some things scummy and then later did those things (meta defense) which is pretty silly, since when people are asked about meta it's not scummy to answer the question by referencing meta - the fact she claimed it looked scummy when others did it then becomes a really sketchy scumtell. Plus, she did it on me, and I'm awesome and have a sweet beard, so she was obviously off her rocker.

That's the long and short of it from me, if you're one of those players who believes a wallpost case is somehow more townish than just pretend I quoted every instance she brought up meta and blathered on for about a paragraph (repeating myself semi-constantly) about how she's being scummy again, and also probably dug up the Metropolis and SA games she was in and had another long speech about how research there shows a lack of enjoyment in dull roles and dull setups. Plus I could probably have mixed in a lengthy spiel of point by point insults that I'd pass off as 'analysis' wherein I attack everything she ever said to me and kept saying insightful things that would really just be summed up as 'look, I think she's flaling' when she attacked me after coming back to the game.

My thought at the time of questioning was you wanted to keep your hands clean, which is still valid, BUT I just re-read your ISO and it confirmed that I do in fact still have a townread on you.

Question: Do you still think mith is town?

[Thor665]

Thor: What I'm saying is why is that important that that case come from OTHER PLAYERS?

Because I know I'm just, and making other people repeat themselves helps me find scum. Me repeating myself just helps me sound smart(?).

Re: Mith - meh, I'd rather lynch Sotty or you than him methinks, but would rather lynch him than either Llama. So I'd say he's in my vague scum pool, but is a high hanging fruit in that pool. Most of my issues with him are playstyle based, and that doesn't feel comfortable for a lynch.

[Thor665]

@Amrun - you're quoting a case I made on DGB - I don't think that would help my Sotty rehash.

[Amrun]

Oh, woops. I quoted the wrong post. You know which post I meant, I trust.

Since when do you suspect me?

[Thor665]

1. I'll presume it's a weakly padded out case that really says 'gut' sure.
2. Really? Since sorta last page and mostly this page. You felt like a sudden assault on me as soon as I voiced any issues with the Llamarble lynch you're working on, and it felt paranoid and scummish as opposed to dismissive and townish.