Elemental Mafia- Game Over!

[mneme]

Kison: Nobody. Have you stopped being a cult recruiter?

But that's the problem. There's no right, protown answer to "are you recruitable?" Beyond "screw you."

It's obvious that -most- unclaimed non-cult roles are recruitable. If they aren't, the game isn't playable for the cults, and that just doesn't make much sense given the rest of the game.

But the only ones who benefit from finding out -which- roles are recruitable -- and more specifically, which aren't, are the scum.

Town have no protown interest to tell the truth on this question -- nor do they have any interest in getting a truthful answer, aside from setting up lynches days in the future. Except that for a town win, we don't -have- days; we need to nail recruiters -today-.

Why haven't we lynched Korlash yet?

[Lowell]

Whatever.

Yes, I am recruitable.

[Macavenger]

Mnemennenmenem, who recruited you N0?

Kison, this isn't a good question. We have no proof he was recruited N0, it could have happened N1.

Seriously though, the way mneme is clearly not paying attention and just hostily spouting town platitudes does say cult recruit to me. I'm thinking recruit specifically because a recruiter would probably be more interested in paying attention to the thread looking for information than he is.

FoS: mneme

Recruitable is not the answer I was expecting from Lowell.

Unvote; Big FoS: Lowell

I would prefer to see elvis claim recruitability before voting to help really nail down my theory, but given how wonky the Lowell claim has been from the start, I might be willing to vote on it soon anyway.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I am back

who r we lynching
k thx

[Kison]

Kison, this isn't a good question. We have no proof he was recruited N0, it could have happened N1.

That actually made me laugh.

Here's a question, though. We know Adel was a cop. Let's theoretically say for a moment that Adel investigated Mneme. Two possibilities : guilty, innocent. If Adel got an innocent, do you think she would have placed her vote on Mneme like she did?

I'm not trying to sidetrack this current discussion. This is merely a temporary tangent.

[Macavenger]

Possibly, Kison. I random voted DGB as a sort of crumb that I protected her, so I could see a cop with innocent doing the same thing. More importantly, Adel's play does not at all look like "cop with guilty" to me.

Of course, cop having an innocent is virtually meaningless this game.

[Lowell]

I got a "big FOS"? What is that? I feel sort of violated.

Can we lynch someone who is actually useless, instead of trying to meta- our way into thinking I'm scum?

[Muerrto]

If Lowell's recruitable and he protects someone then he gets recruited right?

So you guys are thinking he got recruited. Possible, but only if HE was recruited.

If I was recruited he was not recruited. Wow, that even makes my head spin but read that for exactly what it is. Just because he protected me does not make him more likely to have been recruited.

Now being recruitable and announcing it makes him have to die today anyway...

Unvote, Vote: Lowell

Sorry, but you yourself should agree with that if you're town.

[Lowell]

If Lowell's recruitable and he protects someone then he gets recruited right?

So you guys are thinking he got recruited. Possible, but only if HE was recruited.

If I was recruited he was not recruited. Wow, that even makes my head spin but read that for exactly what it is. Just because he protected me does not make him more likely to have been recruited.

Now being recruitable and announcing it makes him have to die today anyway...

Unvote, Vote: Lowell

Sorry, but you yourself should agree with that if you're town.

But I like killing too much. Let me help bandwagon others, then we can talk.

[Lowell]

Although, in truth, I hadn't really considered what my ability would look like as a cultist. It doesn't seem like it would actually be much of a benefit to cult. Other than, maybe, I could block other potential rectuiters. Who knows.

Here's an interesting idea. Let Lowell live. I'll be recruited by someone by tomorrow anyway (or someone will kill me). Why not make cult waste a kill/recruit and then kill me tomorrow. Keep in mind, it's not like any one group will have a majority by tomorrow.

Not kidding, this is the most pro-town use of this role I can think of at this point.

[Xtoxm]

Not a fan of the "Give me more time then kill me" thing.

And that argument is flawed because you say you trying to help town but you would not be on the side of town.

unvote vote Lowell

.

[mneme]

That's 8. This day running way too slow, and while I'm not that happy with lynching a claimed doc, there's no reason at this point to believe he's a -town- doc, or even a doc at all.

Hammer time.

vote: Lowell

[mneme]

EDBP:

unvote
vote: Lowell

[Macavenger]

Pretty sure that's not a hammer. Since Erg0 unvoted that makes 8 by my count.

Debating whether I should just hammer or wait to hear what I wanted from elvis.

[Macavenger]

Okay screw it, I just reread Lowell in isolation and it was painful.

Vote: Lowell

mneme should be next, IMO, unless he very quickly gives some indictaion he's actually paying attention or cares what's happening.

[Battle Mage]

Vote Count

(9) Lowell: (Kison, Armlx, Korlash, Elvis Knits, Farside, Muerrto, Xtoxm, Mneme, Macavenger)
(3) Pooky: (Dead Rikimaru, Cavebear, Lowell)
(1) Elvis Knits: (Andycyca)

(3) Not voting: (Pooky, DGB, Erg0)

16 players alive, means 9 votes to lynch.

With alot of ground to make up, it was Lowell who was seen as the biggest thread to the welfare of the town. With so few cult killed so far, the odds were clearly in favour of him being scum, but unfortunately, this was not the case.

Lowell - Bodyguard, BBQ'd, Day 2

Only 15 remain, and things are going from bad, to worse!
Can you make better use of your next lynch-or at least avoid killing an innocent power role!?

With 15 alive, 8 votes will now lynch.

BM

[mneme]

mneme should be next, IMO, unless he very quickly gives some indictaion he's actually paying attention or cares what's happening.

Still don't get how you've got the idea I'm not paying attention (or don't care what's happening). My last substantive point was not "platitudes" -- but the point that there's no reason to force out recruitability other than as WIFOM, and that doing so as habit hurts the town when bandwagons fail (and bandwagons -should- fail; we should not be lynching everyone we bandwagon; this should -not- be "randomly bandwagon the first 6 people who get a following", but I think some people are treating it that way).

[Lowell]

Fight on, brave town.

[Kison]

"Once upon a time," Kison began reading, "there was a

magical

bear named Pooky. He would embark on a long, enduring journey to uproot the cult scum and his highschool friend, Wayne, who had been causing a lot of trouble in his home village. His adventure began wayyyyy back in April, 2008..."

unvote

vote DoS

He used "IMO"

thus obv scum

GG no RE

unvote

vote Armlx

If I saw you in heaven...

unvote

vote Xtoxm

Momentum play

I am back

who r we lynching
k thx

"The End."

Vote : PookyTheMagicalBearOfLazyBandwagoning

Ok, Einstein, either give us some real juice. Who "r" the scum? "Y"?

[armlx]

The lack of Magical Pooky insight is disconcerting this game. Usually he has at least one major comment so far that despite seeming baseless is correct.

[Dead Rikimaru]

The lack of Magical Pooky insight is disconcerting this game. Usually he has at least one major comment so far that despite seeming baseless is correct.

The Pooky you remember is the Pooky of the old times.
He pretty much plays like this nowadays.

[Macavenger]

First order of business:

Mod:

request one day deadline extension due to the fact that the thread was locked for most of yesterday.

Second: elvis, don't claim recruitability now, with Lowell's death I already know my theory is bunk, and it no longer serves any purpose.

Now, mneme, let's deconstruct a couple of your recent posts to see where I get that you aren't paying attention and don't care.

How does it help for -anyone- for people to claim recruitable/nonrecruitable?

Doesn't this just help the scum make recruits that aren't going to bounce? The first few may make the scum more likely to collide -- but the more recruitables we reveal, the -more- likely the scum are to successfully recruit.

DR - he's not playing like this in Mature Mafia, at least; that may or may not mean anything.

Macavenger hasn't claimed, right?

Still not convinced on the Lowell BW -- though it seems like we have a -lot- of protective roles.

Let's see what's wrong with this. For the first line, I just explained prior to this post that I had a theory that could help evaluate the claims. Obviously I couldn't spell it out while waiting for answers, since then any lying scum would just give me the answer that sounded right. (For the record, the theory was that we had some "vanilla" power roles - tracker, roleblocker - that were recruitable, and some complex/flavored ones - prison warden, the weird cops, bodyguard - that weren't.) In general I would agree that finding out who's recruitable helps scum, but I had a specific reason here.

Second line is the useless platitude thing I was talking about. Yeah, we get it. See first bit about why I hoped this case was a useful exception. I think you're just shoving this out there to sound pro town.

Third line is the one that really demonstrates you aren't paying attention at all. I was one of the first people in the game to claim, and it's been discussed

many

times since then. It was brought up a couple times later D1, confirmed by DGB, etc. Today there was discussion of me not claiming my N2 target without reason. And if all that weren't enough to let you know I'd claimed, I had

just referenced my claim again 12 posts before yours

in the context of discussing Lowell's claim.

And finally, you're not sold on the Lowell wagon. Ok.

But wait, let's see what happens next!

Your next post you vote Lowell. What new information has come out since then? Well, he claimed recruitable, I decided I was more suspicious of his claim than previously, and... two more people had voted him. That's pretty much all the new content relating to Lowell. You also thought you were hammering, but actually hadn't paid enough attention to count the votes right and realize you weren't. So, this changing your mind with little new information (and no indication you'd reread) makes me think you don't really care, you just want to lynch people.

Vote: mneme

Kison, I agree with you that Pooky has been highly useless. At this point though, I'd recommend only lynching him if you think Mizzy was lying about being a recruitable townie yesterday. I can certainly see an argument for how her bit about townies wanting to get recruited was a CL trying to get a reaction from nervous townies, but I don't really know. At this point I'm kinda regarding Pooky as a "default lynch" to use armlx's term, and I think mneme is better right now.

[armlx]

The lack of Magical Pooky insight is disconcerting this game. Usually he has at least one major comment so far that despite seeming baseless is correct.

The Pooky you remember is the Pooky of the old times.
He pretty much plays like this nowadays.

He said some stuff when I played with him in House Mafia that was actually insightful.

[mneme]

Mac: no, I don't remember your claim. I have no memory these days, alas. Are you the Claimed Unrecruitable Jailer?

Regardless, of -course- I want to lynch people. I want to lynch scum. I'd have been happy to stay off the Lowell BW if I were more sure of his innocence, or if I thought anybody left on it was going to move. The problem is, we don't have one bandwagon to make today; we have 6, and succeed or fail, the Lowell BW was taking -way- too long (plus, I couldn't be sure that he wasn't scum). Basically, if you can't beat 'em, join them. (I'll be much less likely to do this for later bandwagons; IMO, the need for us to be sold on the target being scum for later bandwagons is -much- more significant later in the day, where the bandwagon is only about that person's lynch, not about several lynches down the line.) Note my -not- joining the 6th bandwagon yesterday, because I believed the target was innocent. And, what do you know? The target was innocent. Wasn't there some gloating around then too?

vote: Korlash

I'm happy to be on scumKorlash, but I might be persuadable about Pooky. Lurking=scum, particularly for experienced players.

[armlx]

Yeah, forgot about Korlash for a minute there. Good call.

Vote Korlash