Mini 1450: Hillbilly Hunt Mafia (Game Over)

[havingfitz]

I do want to know how Fitz got us every night as well...

When I blocked you N1 I thought I was a mafia traitor (in a minority of mafia) and I didn't want to JK a potential mafia target. I wasn't sure if you where a hillbilly or not but if you weren't...I didn't see you being the N1 nk. When that resulted in no N1 nk I was like WTF?

N1 I decided to see if I got the same result and I was still uncertain if Mara was scum or target. I assumed if she was a target N1 she wouldn't be on N2 as well. And I didn't think she was scum after the mason/vig claims. N2...same result. WTF??

N3 I blocked ThAD to see if there would actually be a NK if I blocked someone other than Mara.

So that's that.

Interesting game. Messed with my mind as well. I concur with the person who thought they were the worst traitor in history after the first 3 lynches were all hillbillies. I even asked the mod if I would be getting the ability to NK anytime soon.

I feel like town got screwed a little bit but then again, if my blocks had been on others and they had been able to get their nks in (especially if they had targeted Ree) things may have turned out differently.

So Whoo hoo Hillbillies!

[MrObvious]

I even asked the mod if I would be getting the ability to NK anytime soon.

I considered submitting the same question.

[PeregrineV]

In modeling the game, I figured day3 would be the point at which everyone goes "wait a minute....." and perhaps massclaim.

If so, town was provided fakclaims and even had a GF role to counteract the cop.

Except for Dry-Fit, the only role with no fakeclaim (Sorry about that... )

All character names and fakeclaims where randomly determined, btw, so there should have been nothing to read in there, even though I used 2 Beverly Hillbillies and 3 Walking Dead characters.

[Thor665]

Really, if kills had gone through - Day 2 would have been the likely revelation day.
Also Ree had an auto leg-up revelation awareness setting with his role.

[Mr_Ree]

Yeah I did. That's why I was so focused day 1. I had to be.

Cooldog did use some rather obvious scumtells though which helped me significantly. I will admit that I submitted a nightkill after nopoint flipped. Early game, I was actually focusing on trying to recruit/be recruited and getting the nightkill. To do that, I had to be super town so I just played as I would have if town. I started scumhunting and actually went after those I thought may be on my team while at the same time, tried to leave those I investigated alive.

When Thor and AJ started talking about multiball, I tried to kill that thought as best I could. I needed everyone to think it was just a normal game until I got it figured out.

[SleepyKrew]

Scum not knowing that they are scum defeats the purpose of informed minority.

[ThAdmiral]

Scum not knowing that they are scum defeats the purpose of informed minority.

This more or less sums up my feelings.

[Thor665]

Yeah, it's a funny concept and I suppose I'm pleased to have been part of it for the uniqueness - but it felt like a piece of concept art, rather than anything that should be hung in a museum, y'know?

[Mr_Ree]

Scum not knowing that they are scum defeats the purpose of informed minority.

Yet with the alignments reversed, they couldn't know without getting a significant advantage. Perhaps an extra player or traitor would balance that issue out. TSO had a godfather type role that actually could have made things difficult for us.

It all came down to the claim. If that didn't happen, things could have easily gone the other way.

I ended being the informed minority in the end though. They probably would have gotten another mislynch, if not for the big reveal.

I'm not saying it's 100% perfect but I did enjoy it and I could see how things could have gone differently. All town had fake claims. That should have said something...

[PeregrineV]

Yeah, it's a funny concept and I suppose I'm pleased to have been part of it for the uniqueness - but it felt like a piece of concept art, rather than anything that should be hung in a museum, y'know?

Reversing mindset.

Pressure is on everyone to scumhunt, but for different reasons.
At some point, when it's obvious not all is as it appears, town continues to scumhunt while trying to look scummy to finish it out.
Scum can try to stay scummy to avoid the lynch, or try to act more townie to avoid the NK. Town is doing something similar, because they know they are now the minority.

I didn't really think it was bastard per se, because the role PMs, etc. were all true, and town had the tools to win. (Except Dry-Fit- sorry guy...). Sorry if anyone felt they got shanghaied into a bastard game without warning.

[Sajin]

Well I do think the phrasing of some of those abilities was a little bit bastard. The godfather ability was called bad news and such. Moderator was actively trying to imply that the ability was a bad thing when in reality it was a good thing.

However I do think triple masons with a vig kill and a QT, and having fake claims and having the multiple hillbilly flips should of been a giveaway.

[Thor665]

I feel the setup was bastard.
It was intended to mislead perceptions about what you were - scum didn't know they were scuma nd town didn't know they were town.
Playing the game without awareness of your real alignment is bastard in my opinion.

I agree with Sajin that a handful of roles had the ability to figure it out quicker than others - but I don't see that as preventing it from being bastard.

[PeregrineV]

I put "You are Town." or "You are Mafia." right at the top of each role PM.

And yes, there was two uninformed groups, so getting informed was also an objective that needed to be accomplished before you could win. Once informed, were you the majority or minority?

Ree accomplished the informed part first, and when he revealed that, the night actions (which prevented 2 scum and 1 town death) and mason claims made and lynch flips made it obvious who the majority were.

And the good news is that there really are only so many ways that this can be done, so it's rare to have games like this.

[Thor665]

I put "You are Town." or "You are Mafia." right at the top of each role PM.

Yes, but you reversed what those words mean.

That's like me telling someone they are a woman when, in fact, they are a man. I'm not being truthful in a role PM - that's bastard.

[PeregrineV]

I put "You are Town." or "You are Mafia." right at the top of each role PM.

Yes, but you reversed what those words mean.

That's like me telling someone they are a woman when, in fact, they are a man. I'm not being truthful in a role PM - that's bastard.

Yes, their meaning reversed mid-game if we think town=majority and scum=minority.

I did try to include the tools each side needed to win even when that point was reached.

[Thor665]

I'm not saying the game lacked balance or lacked interest.
I am saying it was a bastard setup because the role PM lied - 'scum' and 'town' *mean* things within the game of mafia - to change those meanings without warning is an intentional attempt to mislead players. You clearly, by your own admission, intended as such. So at that point, the only question is if a misleading role Pm is or is not bastard.
I submit it is.

[T S O]

Ouch.

[PeregrineV]

I'm not saying the game lacked balance or lacked interest.
I am saying it was a bastard setup because the role PM lied - 'scum' and 'town' *mean* things within the game of mafia - to change those meanings without warning is an intentional attempt to mislead players. You clearly, by your own admission, intended as such. So at that point, the only question is if a misleading role Pm is or is not bastard.
I submit it is.

I accept that.

However, I did not want the gameplay itself to be adversely affected by the presentation of it as a bastard game before the fact, because then more focus is on finding the bastard element than in playing the game.

Post-mortem, OK.

[T S O]

I thought it was odd how the whole game began to turn against me, especially Thor, at a stage in the game.

[Mr_Ree]

Mafia thought their numbers were dwindling. With the whole Miller thing, you were an obvious mislynch. Not to mention, we would have had to get rid of all the Masons anyway.

The only reason I didn't jump on at that time is because I needed to confirm my theory.

@PV, it was a pretty fun game anyway. I enjoyed it. The idea of making hillbillies hunt themselves to look town enough so they wouldn't get hunted by other hillbillies was a good theme.

[Thor665]

So do I count this as a town win or a mafia win...

[T S O]

I think it's a Mafia win, but not sure.

[Equinox]

Mine?