Flame Warriors U-Pick; Troll wins it for his team!

[Duplicity]

Duplicity, I understand being terrible and illogical are not necessarily being scumtells but I think at times you expect too little. I don't believe farside is as dense as she is letting on right now. The "omg lets lynch the miller" syndrome with no other reasoning is a cookie cutter scum-tell and just one more reason that waiting to claim can be better.

You haven't played with Farside enough then, she's incredibly stubborn and when she makes up her mind on something for instance miller claim being desperate mafia she'll stick to it regardless of alignment.

Also, your role claim is irrelevant. If you are just rubbing it in my face that I think you are town as scum, fuck off. Your defense of my miller claim as fitting my play style is something I don't see you doing as scum although I guess its possible. Your initial anger/frustration in #62, focus in #63 and defense of me in #66 I can't fathom you doing as scum unless you are feeling particularly cruel. And unless your mindfucking me into considering this more I don't see why you would bring up this concern as scum. The one thing that does worry about me is taht you are the only posting on the hydra. We've never drawn scum as hydra partners but if we did I could easily imagine you dominating the late game play and being afraid of a partner scumslip.

You started thinking we were town or 'strong town' a long time before you were guiltied therefore you must have another reason for thinking we're town and I want to know it. As I said before your lack of paranoia or uncertainty over us is unusual. I've been asking Gorilla to post multiple times lately and I haven't a clue why he hasn't actually followed through on it yet but I'm giving him a few more days to put forward effort to the game otherwise I'll play this entirely solo. In regards to your Gaoth vote, I strongly agree with your suspicious of him and also don't think Farside/Oversoul are a likely scum-team but it doesn't change the fact that he's not the optimal lynch for today, we already know he's not the roleblocker and therefore aiming for the roleblocker is best play.

[Scumhunter]

Stubbornly pushing shallow cases can be indicative of a stubborn townie sure, but more often than not its a scum clinging to a mislynch they thought would be easier to achieve. When things don't go their way, it essentially turns into "QQ, look what he did, why haven't we lynched him yet." Trust me on this one. I'm an experienced troll. Ever seen me fake claim a power role on EM as a villager? Do you remember the way scum react to when I say "I retract". That's cut and paste what farside is doing to my late miller claim right now. It's a slightly different situation but it boils down to the same "OMG LYNCH TEH TROLL ALREADY".

I called you confirmed town after benmage flipped rolecop. I backpedaled from that quite a bit in my #35. I think you are town. Would I be shocked if you were scum here? No. Mildly surprised, but not shocked. The fact you are bringing this up is making me think of reasons why I shouldn't trust you, but then you are the one bringing it up, so I get to thinking why would you bring this up if you were scum? Particularly if there are reasons to suspect you? Is it to just to make me think that you wouldn't bring it up as scum? Or is this a ploy to get me to call you confirmed town and lynch me later? Hmm, why aren't I more suspicious of him? Is that a bad sign?

^You can get me going on that merry-go-round of thoughts, but its not worth it. Your reads haven't been spot on, but I can understand where you have been coming from though on most of your reads though and can follow your thought process on how you got most of your reads even if I disagree. You still need to expand on why farside is town other than she's being stubborn which you have established as a null tell. What scum team do you see that doesn't involve Gaoth right now? If you think I'm town, why would Oversoul-scum ignore the guilty on me?

[Oversoul]

Ok. I am putting an end to this charade.

[Oversoul]

Oversoul, Gorilla wants the following comment explained:

Investigate me tonight, Ben.

The answer to this isn't clear cut.

I would rather not claim now, but I have been brewing this pet theory for a while since Farside was ardently opposed to the miller claim.

I am Impostor, townie Illusionist. Each night I can choose a Flame Warrior, and a role to impersonate.

This is why I was so uncertain about Benmage. My role is a direct counter to the scum's role cop which I thought was extremely odd and thought he could perhaps actually be town (as scum would just kill the people they successfully find). I have been "impersonating" random Flame Warriors and completely random roles each night in the hopes that I scare one of the scum into either killing me, or pushing my lynch.

However, one of the roles I used was "night kill immune miller vig". Here is my theory. It makes very little sense for Slaxx to make a rolecop and then a direct counter to said role cop (my role) unless there was more than one, perhaps a backup for the mafia. When I asked Ben to check me, and then later said that I had a weird configuration of role and Flame Warrior I was looking for the scum to drop crumbs about my role to each other during the day. So far, I haven't seen any, and trust me, given my obscure role choices, there would have been crumbs.

Perhaps there was a successful investigation onto me the night I did night kill immune miller vig and that is why Farside doesn't believe me, as perhaps SH an alternative scum third party. However, I agree that idea is unlikely.

I claimed VT because I was going to impersonate tonight as a doctor and hopefully draw the nightkill (although this makes less sense if they knew I was a nk immune miller vig) which is why I claimed VT.

In short, I really don't know why my role was added just as a red herring for one scum role... which is why I was so uncertain about Benmage.

Boom shakalaka.

[Duplicity]

1. You still need to expand on why farside is town other than she's being stubborn which you have established as a null tell.
2. What scum team do you see that doesn't involve Gaoth right now?
3. If you think I'm town, why would Oversoul-scum ignore the guilty on me?

1. I don't have a strong town read on her at all, nor do I even really have a town read on her, it's very possible that she's scum but at the same time I'm not reading her play as overly scummy. The one thing that does strong point towards her being scum though is PoE.

2. Honestly, I ran through this on a sheet of paper a while ago and have lost it but I'll try and do it again;

Possible Scum Teams

1. Farside + Oversoul

2. Farside + Tragedy

3. Farside + Scumhunter

4. Farside + Gaoth

5. Oversoul + Tragedy

6. Oversoul + Gaoth

7. Oversoul + Scumhunter
8. Gaoth + Scumhunter

9. Gaoth + Tragedy

10. Tragedy + Scumhunter

Note: I'm ruling out any pairing that involves Tragedy as right now she's the only person Gorilla is confident that is town and I agree with him on it. Farside and Oversoul don't read like a buss. I'm also still reading your play and interaction with Benmage as you being likely town therefore I'll cross of combinations involving you for now. That leaves:

Likely Scum Teams:

4. Farside + Gaoth
6. Oversoul + Gaoth

So yes, you're correctly if you're indeed town I don't see a potential scum-team that doesn't involve Gaoth.

3. To continue to buddy up towards me and to fit in with the crowd that's suggesting that you're town at the moment.

[Duplicity]

I am Impostor, townie Illusionist. Each night I can choose a Flame Warrior, and a role to impersonate.

There we go. That makes a LOT more sense. I do want your full list of choices to 'impersonate' along with your actual selections. Also explaining your reluctance on claiming earlier would be appreciated.

Vote: Gaoth

I would also be willing to move to Farside if the vig is willing to promise to shoot Gaoth tonight.

[Duplicity]

Also explaining your reluctance on claiming earlier would be appreciated.

When I say this I want you to run through your exact thought process because "There's a chance that they might check me and think I'm doc and thus shoot me tonight" is a massive stretch of logic.

[Oversoul]

Also explaining your reluctance on claiming earlier would be appreciated.

When I say this I want you to run through your exact thought process because "There's a chance that they might check me and think I'm doc and thus shoot me tonight" is a massive stretch of logic.

What?

Like tell you what ridiculous impersonations I made or try and make them aim for the VTs as Docs? Why wouldn't I do that in case there is another doc...?

[Duplicity]

Like tell you what ridiculous impersonations I made or try and make them aim for the VTs as Docs? Why wouldn't I do that in case there is another doc...?

Allow me to rephrase; The only potential benefit there would have been to not fully claiming early today would be hoping to draw a night-kill. Scum are not going to night kill you over a claimed cop or claimed vig unless they thought for some strong reason you were a doctor. Now what you're essentially saying is that you were hoping to be rolecopped(?) when selecting to impersonate a doctor and therefore draw the night-kill of not tonight but the following night. The likelihood of any of that occurring is so low that I'm failing to see any logical reasoning behind not outright claiming today when we mass-claimed.

What I did want from you thought is a list of your selections as in:
N1: Impersonated X, was X.
N2: Impersonated Y, was Y and so forth.

[Oversoul]

Like tell you what ridiculous impersonations I made or try and make them aim for the VTs as Docs? Why wouldn't I do that in case there is another doc...?

Allow me to rephrase; The only potential benefit there would have been to not fully claiming early today would be hoping to draw a night-kill. Scum are not going to night kill you over a claimed cop or claimed vig unless they thought for some strong reason you were a doctor. Now what you're essentially saying is that you were hoping to be rolecopped(?) when selecting to impersonate a doctor and therefore draw the night-kill of not tonight but the following night. The likelihood of any of that occurring is so low that I'm failing to see any logical reasoning behind not outright claiming today when we mass-claimed.

What I did want from you thought is a list of your selections as in:
N1: Impersonated X, was X.
N2: Impersonated Y, was Y and so forth.

I felt that if there were any doctors left, diluting the pool of potential doctors even further was beneficial.

Anyway

Night 1:
Bliss Ninny, Unkillable Bitch

Night 2:

Troller, Nightkill Immune Miller Vig

Night 3:

Admin, Setup Hacker

Night 4:

Impostor, Proxy Doctor

[Duplicity]

CATFISH and Oversoul, you two should move your votes to Gaoth.

[Oversoul]

Farside is so much more delectable...

[Tragedy]

Troller, Nightkill Immune Miller Vig

Wait, then this would most likely explain Scumhunter.
Then that means CATFISH isn't the Vigilante.

Unvote, Vote: CATFISH

[Oversoul]

Ok. Tragedy is town for that complete brain fart on her part.

Tragedy, I can make my role anything I want. Notice the Unkillable Bitch? I can choose any flame warrior I want as well.

[Scumhunter]

Tragedy. LOL. Bitch, you must be a fucking troll. Right? The way I interpret it Oversoul didn't actually gain any abilities? And it doesn't affect other people's roles at all, but if you want to make this the impetus to realize I'm town go right ahead...

@Oversoul, I understand the choosing a warrior part, but how does choose a role to impersonate work? Were you given a list of choices based on which warrior you picked? Did you actually gain any abilities based on your pick? Why the fuck would you pick troller? XD

[Duplicity]

Scumhunter, do you see any other potential scum-team other than Gaoth + Farside?

[Sir Bastion]

Hmmmm


Is it just me or is it a bit much to have both scumhunter's and oversoul's roles in this game?


On the other hand if we believe all the claims so far then we just need 1 more and can lynch who's left over. But that really depends on us trusting every claim so far

[Duplicity]

Hmmmm. Is it just me or is it a bit much to have both scumhunter's and oversoul's roles in this game?

I don't see any real similarity between their roles. From what I can tell Oversouls roles job is to confuse the mafia rolecop and his breadcrumb of asking Benmage to check him backs up his claim whereas Scumhunters roles job is to reduce the effectiveness of the cop.

On the other hand if we believe all the claims so far then we just need 1 more and can lynch who's left over. But that really depends on us trusting every claim so far

I'll run through it quickly:

1. CATFISH is essentially confirmed town via mafia unlikely having a chance at double-killing, the only instance where I can see that being possible is if scum had a Mafia Bookie but with that said none of the lynches this game have exactly been predictable (With the exception being the Primate lynch of course) and I don't see her using a scum extra kill to shoot Dramonic a highly suspected player. Furthermore use of her ability tonight will completely confirm her as town.

2. Sir Bastion is essentially confirmed town via guiltying and leading on two scum as well as guiltying a miller claim. No need to go any further into that.

3. Oversouls imposter claim doesn't really make any sense as scum as it wouldn't give them any benefit at all, the only real scum role I can see for imposter is godfather and fake claiming a PR with that doesn't make all that much sense. Furthermore, as stated above his breadcrumb means he's probably town.

4. Scumhunters miller claim is a lot more iffy, it means inclusion of a great deal of power roles in the setup with the exact number being 6/16 however at the same time majority of the power roles are incredibly weak. For instance Miller and Impostor don't exactly enhance towns chances of winning greatly and 1-Shot Neighbourizer is also relatively weak even with the added snippet to it.

[Duplicity]

Assuming all claims are indeed correct the scum have to be in between Farside, Gaoth and Tragedy however considering the iffyness of Scumhunters claim I'd stick him back in that pile for safekeeping. Given my strong town-read on Tragedy I would say that if Gaoth + Farside aren't the scum-team (As in if either somehow flip town) then Scumhunter is probably mafia.

[Sir Bastion]

Also why did oversoul claim VT earlier?

[Duplicity]

From what I can tell:

I claimed VT because I was going to impersonate tonight as a doctor and hopefully draw the nightkill (although this makes less sense if they knew I was a nk immune miller vig) which is why I claimed VT.

I felt that if there were any doctors left, diluting the pool of potential doctors even further was beneficial.

[Sir Bastion]

Uhuh...


Everyone is full of excuses today

[farside22]

The role sounds weird to me.
I see Duplicity bought into it for reasons I don't understand.
Let total ignore my case on both Oversoul and Gaoth and lynch people randomly then shall we?

unvote:
vote: Gaoth

unvote

I want to understand the claim. There sounds too much like random and one shot but it's not clear from Oversoul's "Claim".

Oversoul: If your claim is true. Answer the following:
Do you pick from a list of characters? Are you told what characters do what?

You know as well as I do Dup scum will claim a doc role to save themselves from lynch. Oversoul light claiming doctor then saying he used "different abilities" looks desperate to me.

[farside22]

Also has Oversoul even voted the vig and unvoted?

......

[Scumhunter]

First things first: I literally spewed my coffee onto my desk reading your signature Duplicity.

Food for thought: Its possible that Oversoul's claim is comign from a scum-JOAT. It would keep the flavor of picking a different flame warrior each night and would also explain why SirB was roleblocked on just one of the nights.

SirB + Catfish are conf. town.
I know I'm town. I'm pretty sure Tragedy is a derpopotamus townie, not to mention a lamer.

So here are the remaining possibilities
-Gaoth/Farside
-Gaoth/Oversoul
-

Gaoth/Duplicity

-

Farside/Oversoul

-Farside/Duplicity
-

Duplicity/Oversoul

If Farside were to flip town I'd be looking at Gaoth/Oversoul.
If Gaoth were to flip town I'd be looking at Farside/Duplicity.

This is all irrelevant though as Gaoth and Farside are scum -___-.