Open 60: The New C9 - Game over!

[armlx]

Yeah, placement on that wagon is quite irrel and just based on when you were on to post after the cop claim. The only suspects there should be those that didn't join the wagon first chance they got.

[Shteven]

I'm trying to argue that me being eighth out of ten on six aces actually doesn't mean anything.

Perhaps you missed my earlier response:

I'll also give you credit that the six aces wagon was fast. Perhaps I'm due to reread, as I was even later than you on the wagon. Although I had posted before you following the soft claim, I didn't want the day to end so quickly...but there's not much you can do about that. Perhaps I'm too cautious of a player.

I don't like lynching on page 5 in a 20 player game (I've had 7 player newbie games take twice as long) but in this case it was inevitable and I had forgotten how quickly he was lynched. My mistake.

[-TinVision-]

Final Vote Count of the Day

dahill1 (4)-

iamausername, armlx, The Fonz, Shteven

The Fonz (1)-

dahill1

Not voting (2)-

LaptopGun, vollkan


Another day passes and another is shoved up to the gallows. The town quickly settles on dahill1, and efficiently lynches him. Unfortunately, he was only a

Vanilla Townie

.

Day 5 is over. Night 5 has begun. Night action deadline is Monday, June 2, noon EST.

[-TinVision-]

I'm extending the night action deadline until Tuesday, June 3rd, 6 pm EST. My apologies for the delay.

[-TinVision-]

Morning comes, grey as ever and ugly as sin. It seems that

LaptopGun, Vanilla Townie

decided to go swimming with the fishes overnight. The police set to putting up yellow tape and standing around looking official, while you set to lynching one another.

Day 6 has begun. With 5 alive, it is 3 to lynch.

[Shteven]

So we're now at 3:1:1, and I'm not feeling nearly as comfortable as I was yesterday. Town still can win but we'll need two correct lynches now; I wouldn't want to bank on two cross kills tonight.

I hopped on the Dahill1 wagon with far too little thought. I should have stuck to my own opinion.

I'm still suspicious of Fonz, but I am not going to start the day with an immediate vote.

I still consider Vollkan cleared, so that leaves only armlx/iamausername as the other remaining scum.

[armlx]

I'm leaning username SK, Shteven mafia right now, but in no way am I comfortable with finalizing a vote on either of those for the moment. I need to reread again.

[vollkan]

Ugh! This situation is dreadful.

Right now the situation is 3:1:1.

In a mislynch, best case scenario is cross-kills; worst-case is we end up in 1:1:1.

Now, I am in a rather difficult position here. As a single confirmed among 4 potential scum, my words are going to carry considerable clout. That makes me concerned. I would prefer it if I could function as an inquisitorial judge than as the centre of everybody's attention.

Of course, I will make my views known, but I don't think there is any help in me doing so immediately

[iamausername]

My initial thoughts would be Fonz as SK and armlx as mafia, but this is definitely going to need some thorough rereading.

[The Fonz]

Ugh! This situation is dreadful.

Right now the situation is 3:1:1.

In a mislynch, best case scenario is cross-kills; worst-case is we end up in 1:1:1.

Mmm. And crosskills are less likely when you've got a

I have a fairly strong inkling that Shteven is the SK (I will explain why shortly). Deciding between armlx and iamausername for the last mafia will likely require going through with a fine tooth comb.

[The Fonz]

*And crosskills are less likely when you have a confirmed innocent.

[iamausername]

*And crosskills are less likely when you have a confirmed innocent.

Not in this case, I don't think. If we mislynch today, the two scum players will pose a far greater threat to each other than we do to either of them, so I'd figure it would be in their interest to go after each other rather than take out the confirmed innocent.

[The Fonz]

3-1-1.

Mislynch, 2-1-1.

Hit the other, other misses you, 1-1, game over.

Yeah, you're right. If we mislynch, we need both to hit the other. But both have the incentive to. Vollkan doesn't matter in this scenario, since a mislynch guarantees the game ends tonight.

If we lynch correctly, of course, it goes to a 2-1 endgame.

[Shteven]

3-1-1.

Mislynch, 2-1-1.

Hit the other, other misses you, 1-1, game over.

Yeah, you're right. If we mislynch,

we

need both to hit the other. But both have the incentive to. Vollkan doesn't matter in this scenario, since a mislynch guarantees the game ends tonight.

If we lynch correctly, of course, it goes to a 2-1 endgame.

WE? Let me repeat that. WE?

Lynch Fonz please.

[The Fonz]

3-1-1.

Mislynch, 2-1-1.

Hit the other, other misses you, 1-1, game over.

Yeah, you're right. If we mislynch,

we

need both to hit the other. But both have the incentive to. Vollkan doesn't matter in this scenario, since a mislynch guarantees the game ends tonight.

If we lynch correctly, of course, it goes to a 2-1 endgame.

WE? Let me repeat that. WE?

Lynch Fonz please.

Yes. We. The town. The institution of which I am part. My team.

Are you seriously suggesting it is scummy of me to suggest that I am town?

[LaptopGun]

Oh well. I figured I would still be around (or have a more memorable death). Maybe I should be glad I'm not in this situation. Good luck town, the game looks awfully different when you're not part of it.

[Shteven]

It sounded to me more like you were saying we the killing factions. It doesn't quite as much having read the sentence multiple times, I think I switched need and both in my head.

'we both need to hit the other' vs.
'we need both to hit the other'

Oh well. Still lynch Fonz please.

[armlx]

Yeah, I'm liking Shteven as scum for jumping on that, plus the attempt to stall out the dcorbe/oman lynch. I have to go back again and look to see if theres anything I missed earlier about him.

I also suggest a Concordet system to show opinions for now. I think it will be very useful in finding scum at this point for various reasons. The 4 unconfirmeds should rank the other 3 in likely hood of being scum.

1. Shteven
2. username
3. Fonz

[Shteven]

I'm fine with everyone ranking 1-3, sounds useful.

1. The Fonz
2. Armlx
3. iamausername

I'll be making a more substantial post soon, I may flip armlx/user, but for now, there it is.

[Shteven]

Another strategy that may help people find our remaining scum would be to clear an unconfirmed player. If you're truly town, vollkan + another cleared will then leave you with the two scum. The main problem of this is that while one can clear people of being mafia, it's very difficult to clear someone of being an SK.

I've been rereading some of the thread, and while I haven't covered every post, much of Farside22's behavior on day 2 strikes me as scummy.

username starts dahill wagon day 4, then switches to start oman/dcorbe wagon. Seems like legit scum hunting to me - other than the fact that [url=time passed and no one had joined him on dahill, the dahill wagon was still perfectly viable. No one had voted for anyone else either; yet he put together a case on Oman and nailed scum. While he did also help us put down Dahill the next day this seems much more like a non-mafia player mistake than a mafia buddy giving us a free shot to down a townie later.

This doesn't clear him of being the SK, but I'm still leaning towards the Fonz being SK.

I had intended for this to be more indepth but I haven't really found much. I've voted for all 3 of the unconfirmed players at some point in the thread, they've all been suspicious to me all game long.

Voting farside22(username): here. I still think this is a valid case that carries through to today.
First FOS of the Fonz: Here.
Voting Armlx: Here. I wish I had stuck to my second to last statement in this post - dahill really wasn't that scummy. I rushed in on other people's opinions rather than follow my own. As for the case on armlx, it's decent but I don't consider this as strong as the fonz's. Close to farside's but I'd probably prefer a farside lynch.
And voting Fonz: Here. Really just an excellent case

So yeah, let's go with:
Fonz
Username
Armlx.

My initial thoughts would be Fonz as SK and armlx as mafia, but this is definitely going to need some thorough rereading.

Any particular reasoning/evidence that led you to name the fonz specifically as SK and armlx specifically as mafia as opposed to just scum?

[armlx]

Any particular reasoning/evidence that led you to name the fonz specifically as SK and armlx specifically as mafia as opposed to just scum?

Also interested, though I can see a couple reasons he would say that.

I've been rereading some of the thread, and while I haven't covered every post, much of Farside22's behavior on day 2 strikes me as scummy.

Said this earlier, but then in context of username's posts, I don't know. The 2 sorta clash.

[iamausername]

It's pretty much just carrying over my reads from previous days; I thought the SK was either LTG or The Fonz yesterday, and it's clearly not LTG, so...
And armlx over Shteven as mafia is mostly based on armlx's predecessor LML trying to derail the Spacecase wagon on D3.

Right now I'd say:
1. The Fonz
2. armlx
3. Shteven

But I'll make a more substantial post after I've done some more rereading, hopefully by the end of today, and give a more considered ordering then, which may well be totally different from this one.

[The Fonz]

It's pretty much just carrying over my reads from previous days; I thought the SK was either LTG or The Fonz yesterday, and it's clearly not LTG, so...

That's still not a reason. What is it that you think I've done

My big post on why I think Shteven is the SK is on another computer, but my basic reasons are:

1. Backing off whenever an opinion looks like it might lead to a controversy which would bring attention to him. (I have several examples of this). When I re-read overnight, I got a strong feeling of playing to survive from him).
2. The 'having read Rigel's post' thing, which indicates scumminess but not alignment with spacecase.
3. The moving off of spacecase's wagon, which indicates to me an indifference to who gets lynched, and a desire to force claims from multiple people (plus the obvious benefit of leaving a player much scummier looking than himself alive to swing in future days).
4. Frequently preaching caution, ie trying to look like the wise and rational voice of town- a cheap way to buy trust.
5. Repeatedly trying to seed the idea of someone else being the SK in the collective mind, based on pitiful evidence.
6. His uncritical acceptance of dcorbe's SK claim, which casts doubt on just how much he believed his own Fonz-SK case.
7. His desire to keep the claimed SK alive yesterday (which would have had the advantage of stopping other people from thinking about the SK, with a claimant to the role alive, and also with Shteven as dcorbe's no1 protector, meant that dcorbe's mafia kill was unlikely to head Shteven's way).

[The Fonz]

*What is it that you think I've done that is SK-ish? I suspect him because i suspected him before is no reason.

My condorcet at the moment would look like this:

1. Shteven
2. armlx
3. iam

Although the bottom two are fairly close to each other. My level of confidence in Shteven = SK strongly exceeds my confidence in armlx = mafia. Both players' predecessors did some scummy things, whilst both have felt fairly middle-of-roadish since. My instinct is that the manner in which LML pushed alternative wagons without commenting on the Spacecase one AT ALL indicates a desire to protect Spacecase without being seen to be defending him.

[armlx]

So, among the unconfirmeds, 3 points for 1st on a list, 2 for second, 1 for last, going of Shteven's last list of the two

Shteven- 7 points (3 from armlx, 3 from Fonz, 1 from username)
Fonz- 7 Points (3 from Shteven, 3 from username, 1 from armlx)
Armlx- 5 points (2 from Fonz, 2 from username, 1 from Shteven)
Username- 5 points (2 from Armlx, 2 from Shteven, 1 from Fonz)

We clearly have 2 tiers among the unconfirmeds, the very scummy, and the moderately scummy.

I'm interested in Vollkan's comments or additions to this.