Newbie #706 - Oh Little Town of Damocles (Over!)

[Porkens]

I'm going to try hard to keep this short and readable.

First of all

unvote

I have 2 main suspects right now; but first I want to share a couple observations I've made about other players (these seemed the most pertinent, I don't want to MEGAPOST on everyone yet):

About Deuxieme Octopus not voting for Ropis “right away”

When I read 24 and 26 the first time, it didn’t really strike me as odd; it just looked like DO wasn’t quite “up to speed” when he hit the post button.

Later on, though, in 39, DO seems offended that the other players didn’t “reference” his reasoning.

42 has some serious Chest Beating (“It's worth suffering the new attention on myself for what I feel will be an entirely more productive and revealing vote.”) Not really pro-town stuff.

DO connect the dots, lalala

Post 66 DO draws a line from Epitaph to afatchic.

Post 90 draws more lines, but this time in big fat magic marker.

It’s way early to be trying to make conditional connections.

Keep them to yourself so the scum can’t use them against you.

Burning loves questions

I like questions, they get the game going, even if they come from scum. But my question was just bizarre:

@Porkens: Why do you think Ropis went from "a little worried" to "seriously concerned" because of afatchic's vote?

And some of the others were too. I expect that the questions promised in the future will be more…answerable.

The first half of 88 is weird, at best. A lot of regurgitation of what other said about ropis early in the game.

Back to Ropis

Even in a Newbie game, the Newbie Card is hard to swallow (see 38).

Also, your distinction between “suspicion” and “collecting votes” is, I’m afraid, lost on me.

84-85 blow me away: A vote on Burning Love based on reasoning provided by other people (mostly DO) and then, 3 minutes later, posting a rebuttal to this very argument.

You’re developing a pattern of doing scummy things and then trying to explain why we shouldn't think they are scummy.

Hence,

Ropis

is number 2 on my list of suspects.

Number 1 is...

afatchic, for playing both sides!

57: Anyway... FOS Burning love, i would vote you, but im almost positive that we already caught our first scum, so no need to change votes.

61: when he flips scum, im going to re-quote this post for you, then vote you.

68: not possitive, but right now he sure seems like it. and nothing he has done has implied anything different.

72: im taking everyone else into account, but ropis is the only one doing much scummy.

(let me refer you back to 57): Anyway... FOS Burning love, i would vote you, but im almost positive that we already caught our first scum, so no need to change votes.

2.5 apology posts by Ropis and a bit of flack from other players later…

92: UNVOTE. im going to give Ropis a chance. i think it will become real clear what he is if he keeps playing this newbishly. so i think we stretch the day out and maybe find a better lynch.

1 new post by Ropis (a scummy connect-the-dots post) gets…

95: HOS ROPIS. there shouldn't be an.... if i turn up town, you should know that you are going to turn up town.

notice there is no re-vote here

Was that

T

oo

L

ong

,

so you

D

idn't

R

ead it? Ok, I will Sum Up!

1. DO strikes me as suspicious, but not scummy, yet.
2. Burning Love does not give me a warm, fuzzy feeling in my tum-tum.
3. Ropis is probably newb scum.
4. Afatchic has been playing both sides of the Ropis issue HARD and is my #1 suspect to be a scum-ball.

vote: afatchic

[afatchic]

can you explain how i am playing both sides of the Ropis issue. i think either he is newb scum or really bad newb townie. and if he is townie, i think epitaph is likely mafia.
and the unvote came because i don't want a newbie jumping the wagon, not knowing whats going on. i was gonna give it a bit more time, so i see no reason to keep a vote on him, and the HOS is the closest thing to a vote that i know of.

[ZazieR]

@Epitaph

Didn't you wonder about this as well?

Are we pointing that he's scum?

Aren't you bothered that he voted someone to be safe?

Any reason why you keep FoSing everybody?

aka Why haven't you voted one of the players you have FoSed?

Before answering these questions, look at post 75 for the whole post in which I asked these questions.

Yes, scummy behavior does bother me but I didn't find that post THAT scummy.

But you apparently did find it scummy. Not much as you said 'not THAT scummy', but you admit that it was scummy. Now I start to wonder what your thoughts actually are about BL's question post.

@Ropis
It wasn't entirely your vote which lead to Porkens to L-2. For me, it was more the reason to do so. Like I said, town comes first, then individuals.
Besides, not every post moves along as fast as this one.

Uhm, yeah what AFC said and DO QFT'ed.

Well, BL, I agree with DO. You asked questions to everyone so that we could learn about their thoughts, but where were your thoughts at that moment. Also, who do you see as scummy right now? I only see you attack DO as he's questioning your intentions about your question post.

I'll wait for Ropis comments before I comment about the possible 'if'-typo. I have seen this before.

and the unvote came because i don't want a newbie jumping the wagon, not knowing whats going on. i was gonna give it a bit more time, so i see no reason to keep a vote on him, and the HOS is the closest thing to a vote that i know of.

Then why no unvote sooner?

My list of suspicions so far:
1. Epitaph
2. Ropis
3. BL

I think it's clear from my posts why this is, but if anyone wants an explanation, just ask me. For now

Vote Epitaph

[Ropis]

Well was the... when i show up scum... was that a typo too?

Uh... lie? Can you quote

anywhere

I said "when I show up scum"? Because if you can't, then that's a lie right?

Lies seem awfully scummy...

[Deuxieme Octopus]

I noticed this too. afatchic quoted something that wasn't a quote. my immediate response was to assume what he quoted actually did exist and that i read it pretty badly. but if you do reread Ropis's post, he never says "when I show up scum."

[Mr. Flay]

Third Vote Count of Day One:

Epitaph - 2 (Deuxieme Octopus, ZazieR)

Porkens - 1 (broncofaninmd)
Burning Love - 1 (Ropis)
afatchic - 1 (Porkens)

Not Voting - 4 (Burning Love, lobstermania, Epitaph, afatchic)

With nine alive, five votes will be needed to lynch.

[Burning Love]

I only see you attack DO as he's questioning your intentions about your question post.

Where did I "attack" Deuxieme Octopus?

[broncofaninmd]

Also, lobstermania has not given a clear opinion on the situation and this bothers me.

fos: lobstermania

I'm still confused why everyone voted for Porkens. ZazieR's vote I can understand, being an omgus. But Broncofaninmd, and especially Ropis....I'm not sure why they all chose Porkens. Both votes, especially being back to back (to back) seem sketchy. I'd like to hear something from Broncofaninmd.
Also. Why is Duexieme Octopus guilty for not band-wagoning a band-wagoner?
I haven't given a clear opinion yet because nothing is clear yet.

I voted on him strictly for voting on me for not voting on the first post.

[Porkens]

I voted on him strictly for voting on me for not voting on the first post.

How's that case holding up?

[Epitaph]

So you don't agree with me asking player's questions to fill myself in from what I missed, move the game forward, and get more information from their mind' into posts?

No frankly, I don't agree with it. Filling you in on what you missed is not our job. Read the thread. If you want to get "more information from their minds into their posts" I suggest you at least attempt to reciprocate.

Rereading the thread myself, I have come to the conclusion that lynching either of these two people would be equally beneficial, productive, and enlightening: Ropis and Epitaph. Even if it is arbitrary, a connection between Epitaph and Ropis has been established, and Burning Love (among others) has been our main alerter to that situation. Lynching either of these 2 would immediately shed light on the alignment of the other 1 + Burning Love. For example:

If Ropis is lynched and comes up town, Epitaph looks a lot cleaner and Burning Love looks scummy for perpetuating the discussion of Ropis's (hypothetically newbie) mistakes. If Ropis comes up scum, Epitaph looks scummy for shrugging off Ropis's scummy moves.

And this logic works in the same way with the other 2. I would say that a Burning Love lynch could be as productive, save for the fact that if Burning Love comes up town, we are really nowhere closer to knowing the alignment of either Ropis or Epitaph (there would still be too much speculation involved.) Of course I'm still suspicious of Burning Love, but I think he's not worth lynching at this point.

So what I'm trying to say is that, although I'm equally suspicious of all three, a lynch of Epitaph or Ropis would be more beneficial immediately. So I'm going to

unvote, VOTE: EPITAPH

This is just because Ropis will still have two votes, and I think we should put more pressure on Epitaph.

Alright I can see the connection to Ropis. I still think I was correct in not voting him. I didn't find his actions scummy enough to vote and I wasn't about to put him at L-1 only a couple pages in for only that one development. Yeah, I did defend him a bit, but I think it was beneficial to the town so we could have more discussion and explore other developments.

The Burning Love connection I have a little trouble with. They made their question post that you and afatchic went after(connection there perhaps?) and I said I liked the questions. Yeah, Burning Love didn't offer their opinion right away but I think the questions still helped because they stopped discussion and, as I think you said, these questions can be the best way to trap and contradict people.

And you say Burning Love is connected to Ropis. I don't even see a slight connection there. It seems like you're grasping at weak clues.

[Epitaph]

to zazieR: I don't like to vote without being sure of where I'm placing it. That's just how I play. I'm very wary of how I vote.

And regarding Burning Love's post: I like the questions. As I said before, they're a good way to start discussion and trap people in contradictions. Yeah, it bothered me a bit that Burning Love didn't offer their opinion right away, but I don't find that extremely suspicion-worthy.

[afatchic]

If I'm lynched I come up scummy then there's definately a connection and Epitaph would need to be seriously looked at

, but I come up town then I don't think it reflects on him one way or the other.

then someone explain what that means if its not saying, if im lynched and i show up scum...

[lobstermania]

If I'm lynched I come up scummy then there's definately a connection and Epitaph would need to be seriously looked at

, but I come up town then I don't think it reflects on him one way or the other.

then someone explain what that means if its not saying, if im lynched and i show up scum...

In what I can only assume would be Ropis's thoughts:
"(Option 1)

f I'm lynched (and) I come up scummy then there's defin

tely a connection (between myself and Epitaph) and Epitaph would need to be seriously looked at, but (option 2 if) I come up town then I don't think it reflects on him one way or the other."

It's not that hard to fill in the missing pieces.
However, wifom aside, I don't really believe in the connection between Epitaph and Ropis. I don't think scum partners would defend each other so early in the game. Perhaps Epitaph stood up for Ropis, knowing he was town, to keep a possible suspect in the game and further his chances of hiding as scum. This seems a lot more plausible to me.

FoS

at Epitaph

[afatchic]

I know that, but a townie, knowing they are a townie, shouldn't even say that if i show up as scum. they know they are a townie.

[Deuxieme Octopus]

AFC, I know what you're saying but it's just grasping at semantics. Ropis is obviously writing from the perspective of the collective town, showing what either possible option would result in. Obviously, if somebody posted "Who is town?" everyone would respond, "ME!" When someone uses the conditional to refer to their alignment, it's because they want the town to see it from a collective perspective, not because they're actually dumb enough to openly admit to being scum. I think, regardless of the fact that this is a newbie game, that is just too dumb of a mistake to make.

[lobstermania]

I think, regardless of the fact that this is a newbie game, that is just too dumb of a mistake to make.

I would agree. Ropis mentioned in post 38 that he has played similar style mafia games before.

[Ropis]

I know that, but a townie, knowing they are a townie, shouldn't even say that if i show up as scum. they know they are a townie.

DO made the case that lynching me was a good idea because knowing my faction would generate good info on other players either way. In order to argue against that logic I had to approach the issue from both sides, and with a certain level of detachment. I just assumed that yelling "NUH UH! I'M NOT SCUM -

YOU'RE

SCUM!" wouldn't do anybody any good.

[afatchic]

We already know what good it would do if we lynched you, so therefore i still don't understand the post.

[lobstermania]

Afatchich, you are being very close-minded about this situation. You seem very defensive about lynching Ropis. We have all made a mental note about his initially scum-like behavior and have moved on for the time being. Perhaps you should further elaborate upon what you're confused about.
Or is there something else that you know which we don't? Such as the fact you are scum and trying to get the town to lynch one of their own....?
Either let this go, or further the discussion.

[Deuxieme Octopus]

Afatchic, you are being really unreasonable. Ropis's explanation (the necessity of detachment in order to convince) is totally sufficient. I thought it was a fairly obvious and straightforward response, but you apparently do not, and despite numerous posts attempting to explain, I don't get your reasoning.

We already know what good it would do if we lynched you, so therefore i still don't understand the post.

We know what good it would do? Maybe you're some sort of omniscient god-figure (or better yet, scum!), but the rest of us would still like to discuss it. I am finding your arrogant and dismissive posts very suspicious as of late.

HoS: afatchic

You are quickly rising to the level of scumminess as Ropis and Epitaph, in my book
I don't know about anyone else, but I am definitely considering unvoting.

[afatchic]

Afatchich, you are being very close-minded about this situation. You seem very defensive about lynching Ropis. We have all made a mental note about his initially scum-like behavior and have moved on for the time being. Perhaps you should further elaborate upon what you're confused about.
Or is there something else that you know which we don't? Such as the fact you are scum and trying to get the town to lynch one of their own....?
Either let this go, or further the discussion.

please quote where i keep saying lynch ropis....

[lobstermania]

please quote where i keep saying lynch ropis....

I was paraphrasing the situation.
However, this response seems a bit defensive as well. Perhaps we should change the conversation for a few pages? Lol.

[afatchic]

go right ahead, but i just get extremely aggravated when someone miss quotes my words, then uses it to attack me.

[Deuxieme Octopus]

Afatchic, you're seriously asking where you said you wanted to lynch Ropis? Let me learn you something, boy.

It seems like you need to learn the difference between paraphrasing and quoting. someone can state the implications of your words and not directly quote them, which is an equally viable method to recall previous conversation.

however, do you remember the whole interchange with Epitaph concerning Ropis?

when he flips scum, i'm going to re-quote this, then vote you

For this situation to happen, Ropis would need to be lynched, thus implying that you support a Ropis lynch. There was also the post that preceded this conversation where you stated that you were pretty "possitive [sic]" that we had "found our first scum." That "scum" was Ropis, and if you don't intend to

lynch

your proposed scum, what else do you want us to believe you'd like to do to him?

afatchic has had numerous opportunities now to act more sensibly and stop being so aggressive and defensive, but has only shown himself to be increasingly scummy with each new post. i have to say that i find him much more scummy than anyone else on the board right now.

Unvote, VOTE: AFATCHIC

[Epitaph]

please quote where i keep saying lynch ropis....

I was paraphrasing the situation.
However, this response seems a bit defensive as well. Perhaps we should change the conversation for a few pages? Lol.

Why change the conversation? If you're pursuing something you think is scummy why would you change the subject? Are you afraid of offending people?

Also

please quote where i keep saying lynch ropis....

You never outrightly say "LYNCH ROPIS!!!!" But you do say this:

Anyway... FOS Burning love, i would vote you, but im almost positive that we already caught our first scum, so no need to change votes.

No its not the vote that has be convinced, but his explanation for the vote. the vote in itself is scummy, but not that bad in a newbie game. but when he said he did it hoping to push a quick lynch on her so he wouldn't be lynched is extremely scummy. most all of his defense thus far sound like scum to me.

Porkens wrote:
afatchic wrote:

when he flips scum, im going to re-quote this post for you, then vote you.



Are you really that certain that he is scum?


not possitive, but right now he sure seems like it. and nothing he has done has implied anything different.

So, you never call directly for his lynch, but you do reaffirm many times that you think he's almost surely scum. And the logical thing to do with caught scum is to lynch them. So it's easy and reasonable to come to the conclusion that you want Ropis lynched. Some say this would make you a liar. I'm inclined to agree.

BUT! After being so sure that Ropis is scum, you have changed your vote. Why do this? You were so certain, you even threatened to use my defense of him at a later time to lynch me too(which also implies you want him lynched) Is it because the Ropis bandwagon has slowed down?

Perhaps. In any event I really dislike your play and I will

vote: afatchic