Mini Game 23 - GAME OVER - Mafia Win

[Gaspode]

Geez, I gotta start paying attention to deadlines. I don't see how it was relevant that I forgot this one, but sorry. I still think mneme is kinda scummy though, and if he is a doc, sorry. Doc is usually the easiest thing for mafia to claim (they don't have to reveal results). So my suspicions, while controversial, were somewhat justified. I realize this post might seem suspicious, but I just wanted to clarify that my vote was not ridiculous, and I wanted to ask casinopete why my partial forgetting of the deadline was relevant.

[mneme]

You know, given the way the moderator is setting very early deadlines and then not honoring them, I'm almost tempted to vote myself out of this game (actually, I don't have that option any more, since I don't quite have five votes against).

In any case...I didn't explain why I changed my vote because I thought the reasons were obvious [that either the Don had been a bad Townie or a bad mafia, and that yet again, he was more likely to me than I was].

It's certainly possible that Ellid (who actually -is- female??) is doing a very good mafia with, or without, casiopete [though associating even this early doesn't seem like a good idea, and given the number of bad cops, I'd be really surprised if we had 3 mafia; it's possible, I guess]...but it doesn't seem the way to bet.

I'm pretty convinced of CurtainDog's innocence; he's either townie, or very, very lucky.

But regards the "I don't even care if I'm lyinching"...of -course- I do. I still think it's very likely that Green Crayons is mafia, and have been mostly convinced that casinopete isn't; I think it's pretty likely that Don is, and if I can't get a bandwagon on Green Crayons, I can vote for him with a clear concience. I wouldn't support a vote against Ellid at this point; s/he is to useful for the game if not mafia and I haven't seen any reason yet to believe that s/he is mafia. But I'll support a vote of anyone over myself...as will any player, for the most part; mafia always know they aren't townies, while townies always know they aren't mafia.

[The Don]

Jeeez...My eyes hurt!


I still think that revieling yourself as a doc this early in the game only makes you a huge target and does no good for the town. Any real doc would save that role claim and continue to hide their role longer. Anyone with a brain who wanted to do any kind of good for the town that is.

So my vote stands as is. You are either stupid or not a doc. either way good riddens.

[DoomCow]

Nothing more to add at the moment, except

Vote: Mneme

I agree that doc claim is easy to make, especially in a game where nearly everyone seems to be cop, and they all probably question their sanity...

[eillid]

Is that the final vote?

DoomCow, what do you mean by

I agree that doc claim is easy to make, especially in a game where nearly everyone seems to be cop, and they all probably question their sanity...

? Wouldn't it be easier for her to claim cop?

[eillid]

(I meant him. Easier for him.)

[casinopete]

As it seems to be twilight still, I might as well answer

Casinopete:

(to mneme: despite being relatively convinced of your innocence, I'm not convinced of Green Crayons' guilt, so I cannot vote for him.)

And yet you you vote for the Don. Does that mean you are sure of the Don's guilt?!?! ->Based on one post with a couple of dodgey statements. I find that hard to believe...

The "I'm not convinced of Green Crayons' guilt" was rather imprecise of me. What I meant was more, "I do not find your [mneme's] accusation convincing, and do not find Green Crayons suspicious."

Whereas I do find The Don suspicious. (and he is still saying that the roleclaim was early, still ignoring that the fact that there was a deadline quickly approaching)

[The Don]

IT"S DAY 2!!!!!!!

That's toooooooo freakin early to make your self a target with such a valuable role. If everyone buys your claim and you survive the lynch, you will be killed in the night. That makes the role useless or makes for very very poor play. I dont give a damn about the deadline on this day and am certainly not "ignoring" it!!! It's too early IN THE GAME, not IN THE DAY. Do you know how to read?

[eillid]

It isn't too early in the game to claim any role if the day's about to end with you having the largest number of votes. I'm sure the claim was meant to get people to

stop

voting for him.

And killing him now so that the mafia's kill is freed up to hit someone else (and his own protection for whoever the other guy kills is lost) is better? A cop would be far less useful, since he'd need to give us the results the next day (when he'd be dead). A doctor can save someone while he's out getting shot.

[mneme]

Quite. Given the alternative of getting lynched, revealing doc is clearly far better.

If people go ahead and lynch me, well, that's their loss...but except for the unlikely case where I'm lying, it's clearly the worst option.
If they don't lynch me, they have a better chance of getting mafia, and then, that night,
either the mafia gack me (in which case, they aren't getting a cop that night, and if there are fake docs this game, they might not even get a real doc), or they don't (in which case I have to worry about "he didn't die, must be mafia" claims, but have a chance of saving whoever they -do- try to kill).

If they're trying to be clever, I suppose it's possible that Doomcow and The Don are our scum, but it's entirely possible that one of them is just failing to think things through.

Note, btw, that given the preponderance of fake cops, there's a possibility of fake mafia (townsfolk who -think- they are mafia) as well -- the way I'd want to do this (if I wanted to -really- hose a town, that is) is to have the real mafia get "you are a real mafia, as are X, and Y, while A and B are your shills", while the fake mafia get told who the other "mafia" are, but think they are mafia too, until the end of the game (or when the "real" mafia decide to exclude them from the vote). So if you think you are mafia (and that there are more than, say, 2 mafia), it's possible that you only -think- you are mafia.
But then, what kind of evil mod would do that?

[Soothsayer]

Sorry - deadline has to be extended until Monday 8am UK time due to technical problems on my pc.

[CurtainDog]

To clear up my last post...
Just before I submitted that post I refreshed the page to make sure night hadn't fallen. Lo and behold mneme had jumped on the Don bandwagon. I decided to insert the paragraph about mneme, but neglected to fix my headings. Thus, the both in 'both + probably mneme' actually refers to eillid and casinopete.

Also, apologies to all for screwing up the BBCode in that post... I'm still getting the hang of it

Vote:eillid

just in case anyone missed it in my last post.

[eillid]

I understood that it was referring to me and casinopete. What I didn't understand is what you meant by what you put under that header. What was the argument? Also, please expand on my "pulling the strings".

[CurtainDog]

When people say to me 'would I lie to you?' I think they're lying. When people say 'To be honest...' it means they haven't been being honest. When people say 'if he were a mafia why would he come out as a doc?' it makes me think he's a mafia (or at least being set up by a mafia).

Personally, I don't believe mneme's role claim. I don't see a good reason for believing it. However, I'm not willing to vote for him, because I see it as a risk. And there have been (fleeting) moments during today and yesterday when he has struck me as a good guy.

Why even suggest that a false doc claim would be improbable, why not just say 'let's not take the risk'. Overall, I think e + cp's jumping to mneme's defense in the manner they have is a little strange. On the other hand, I'm quite well aware that my own indirect defense of the Don is equally strange (although I

do

acknowledge his reasoning is flawed). I just hope that future events will vindicate my suspicions (those vague feelings you are so fond of eillid).

As for eillid pulling the strings... I think

if

she & cp, or she, cp & mneme are together, then she would be the one planning how the votes would go. Her posts have a focused and controlled quality about them (I suppose mine have a rambling quality about them), so I'm sure she would run her mafia family in much the same way. I'm not suggesting communication during the day, but I get the feeling that at least some of the votes cast today have been somewhat choreographed.

[eillid]

We would have had to choreograph The Don's reaction to mneme's claim, to have set up the voting for him.

(I'd say more, but I'm going to a museum now so I don't have any time.)

[mneme]

Note, btw, that the Don was on my list of suspects at the beginning of the day, because of his odd bandwagon ("this is a bandwagon I can enjoy") at the end of yesterday [which could have resulted in a tied vote.

Also, that if my role is honest [it is, of course, unless I'm mafia, which I'm not], no self respecting mafia would try to swing things away from me -- this juest means they'd have to kill me tonight, or risk their muder going awry.

Based on this, Don's pretty likely to be mafia, (which would mean his "are you a cop IRL" could indicate that my initial guesses were dead wrong).

The problem is, both Don and CurtainDog are reading as "either really bad players, or mafia, or both", and it's hard to tell which.

BTW, curtaindog, to correct a misconception about one of my posts (much) earlier this day...I never defended Ellid (why would I? I don't know anything about whether she's mafia or not). I made a suspicious statement about her...and then retracted it, having verified that this was how she always plays. As it is, I'm thinking it pretty likely (of course, it's likely for -every- player, baring counterevidence) that Ellid isn't mafia, simply because of the way she's been playing -- not certain...but it seems to fit the facts.

CD...I'm not sure about; could be another fake cop who thinks his information is correct; could be a bad player... not sure.

The fact that Green Crayons hasn't shown up this weekend is an odd point in his favor, though metagame -- if the original deadline was honored, and he had a night role, he'd want to make sure to check in on the weekend, especially with the weekend-long night deadlines Sooth has been using. Thus his non-presence does indicate a possibility that he figured he coudl leave the game until monday, not having a real night role. [but with all the fake roles, I suspect everyone thinks they have a night role, so that wouldn't really be valid.

[Soothsayer]

After a slightly longer night than originally planned, the town decide thjat it is time (once and for all) to get rid of some scum.

Despite dissent, Mneme is the one who has pulled the most votes. His last words of "I'm a doc - don't kill me" were not enough to stop the innevitable lynching.

However was he scum?

Nope he was a doc. But a rubbish one. He could protect someone one night but unfortunately he would do such a bad job, that person would die 2 nights later.

Mneme - incompetant doc has been lynched.

It is now night - PMs please - deadline Thursday 9am UK time

[/i]

[Soothsayer]

Poor Doomcow, always eager to rid the town of scum with his nightly investigations thought he found a mafia hideout last night. He was right - unfortunately for him though, this resulted in his untimely death.

He wasn't the only one to die though. Green Crayons after being the lucky person to enjoy the benefits of a doctors protection earlier, suddenly started feeling unwell. It seems the doc wasn't as good as he hoped. Luckily for the town though Green Crayons was a mafia scumbag.

Doomcow - cop - murdered by mafia
Greencrayons - Mafia - manslaughter by incompetant doc

It is now day - please vote - deadline Wednesday 19 Feb 5pm UK time

[eillid]

Er... nice job, mneme. Hopefully the incompetent doctor kill looks like that tomorrow, too. And I suppose it isn't such a bad thing that we killed him.

I'm still suspicious of The Don for going after a doctor like that. (I'm pretty sure mneme would come up as innocent as a doctor, not as scum for being a killing role. Even though it's a good thing we killed mneme, The Don could not have known that it would be. Maybe he and I have very different ideas of what would be a good role to claim, but his reaction seemed very suspicious. Voting for someone seems like a very strange reaction to a doc claim.)

I'll also have to go back and look at GC's reactions to things so far. He doesn't really stand out in my mind, though, so I'm not sure he left anything useful.

(I might not be able to participate very much this day. I'm leaving the country on Sunday and I probably won't have an internet connection until right before the deadline or sometime during the night. And I still need to finish packing.)

[Gaspode]

Where the heck is everyone

vote: The Don

to get things rolling. In addition to eillid's reasoning, I just have this feeling that he's scum.

Let's get talking people!

[eillid]

Vote: The Don

. I still think that his response was unreasonable, and (as no one else has posted a word) there is no one else who's suspicious enough to think about voting for. At the moment. (I haven't had enough time to look for GC's stuff, and won't before deadline.)

But people shouldn't be too hasty, because we don't want mafia all jumping on a wagon and killing off someone innocent. So... be aware of suspicious bandwagon activity and make sure you want to be on the bandwagon you're on.

[ExDeath]

Wow, what happened here? I was gone for the weekend like usual. Didn't really feel the need to respond on thursday. Heh, I barely feel the need to respond now, but I feel like someone needs to say something.

This whole game I've felt has been kind of barren and I'm not sure why, just a bunch of quiet types? It hasn't given me much to go on, but..I was right about Green Crayons so I'm going with my initial two the whole way.

vote: Gaspode

[CurtainDog]

Once again eillid's behaviour manages to confuse me. She adds a vote for the don, then warns about the dangers of hasty bandwagoning. 'make sure you want to be on the bandwagon you're on' - what does that mean anyway? Normally I'd be suspicious, but as greeny hadn't figured into my mafia list I'm disinclined to follow my instincts.

I'm not sure I like the reasoning for the current votes but I don't have anything better at the moment so I guess I'll be happy with whatever you guys come up with. (at the moment I think the most important player in this game is mneme, which could explain everyone's quietness).

[Gaspode]

Wonders if everyone has gone on a vacation to the Bahamas and left him home in the snow to check the forums.

Then again, what am I complaining about? I've had a snow day and a delayed opening!

COME ON, PEOPLE, TALK!!!

[Soothsayer]

I feel its a bit of a shame to bring night into play with only 3 votes - deadline extended till Friday am.