Newbie #1019 (Game Over)

[Olinea]

EBWOP: That last one is just meant for fun. Be creative in a response, like "Claiming Serial Killer in a Newbie game" or something (I know I pretty much did that, but I think that question could lead to a few laughs)

This one. You didn't want to look like you are trying to get real dirt on people, when you could just as easily use the question against them later.

Ah, yes, without this question I would have been blind to any Serial Killer claims. Now I have enough sense to use them against the claimer.

Mafia is a game of dirt. Just wasn't ready to get my shovel out.

Believe it or not, we

do

like lynching people on Day 1. Odd numbers help the town.

[Nazgûl]

Ok, I'm continuing from where I left off.

And as a bonus in this case, Nazgul dropped a scumtell then ran to hide when it caught my attention. Total lurkerscum behavior.

How I am I lurking? I try to come on and post at least once every day or two.

And what scum tell did I drop? The self vote? How is that a scum tell?

@ Rikka: That would entirely depend on Nazgul's response to pressure. But I am generally OK with lynches. I think it is a little EARLY this game to be lynching, but certainly not too early to be VOTING.
However.. if Naz suddenly got run up, I think we would get a ton of info out of that, and maybe a scumlynch on top of it.. so maybe it would be OK! Are

you

willing?

I don't mind pressure. I have nothing to hide. But what do you mean by run up? and how would you get information out of that?

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say this, but... if you lynched me, you definitely would not be getting a scum lynch.

The first vote being a self-vote is a suspicious move for sure, and the lack of reaction is worth pushing.

I have reacted now; do you have any further thoughts?

Sorry, you are right, I spelt the name wrong.

we can't be sure. so automatically assuming that someone is lurking and deserves to be lynched based on that is not right. We don't know the circumstances regarding her being quiet, so advocating a lynch based on "lurking" is not right at this point.

its just way too easy to get everyone to jump on board with lynching Nazgul,. it targets someone who is least active and appeases everyone else because it doesn't put a target on their own backs.

Camn, would you agree that, sometimes the easiest lynch is not always the best?

This post is very good.


I want to make it clear to everyone that my intention is not to be inactive.
I just had other things to do on October 4th It was a busy day! I am doing my best to involve myself, though.

EBWOP / something I forgot to include:

8. VOTING for lurkers is really the only way to push them to come forward and start helping the town.

Anticipating a possible question: Yes, I am encouraging people to vote for lurkers. I would like to know others' views.

I agree with this post!

Old as it may be, I am philosophically PRO answering direct questions, so I will:
1) yes and yes. You defending someone else is scummy, especially now. Either Naz is your partner and it is a chainsaw, or Naz is town, you know it (since you are scum) and you are trying to get on the right side of a mislynch. Your defense of her is scummy on it's own.

Are you saying that defending someone is always scummy, no matter their alignment?

You are only looking at once side of the coin. What if Thian is town? You failed to mention either of those scenarios, EVEN though you say he is one of your top town reads.

I find this to be interesting and suspicious. What do you have to say about it?

What I have kept in the back of my mind with Naz is her self vote after saying it would be stupid to self hammer, and putting your vote on yourself is just as stupid as self hammering, but keeping an open mind that there are 9 people here who are just as guilty as the next.

Is it really that scummy if it's RVS, and if you unvote in your next post?

I don't understand the connection you make between a self-hammer and a self-RVS-vote. Please explain.

My views at the moment is that I don't trust a single one of you

I don't either!

If anyone's asked me question and I haven't answered them, please remind me! I don't think there are any directed at me at the moment, but if I miss any say.

Same here.

@ Nazgul

Well you at least are active, and answered, in a way. First of all your point against me, apologising for being late being a scummy move? Really? I was gonna say I'm sorry for being polite, but wouldn't that be scummy? You seem to want appear nice to everyone, personally I don't trust any of you, and so I'm going to tell you that. I hope your answers later hold some more substance. Also you've given a reason to not turn up very often, legitimate or not, that would be very convient for scum.

Well I have heard that apologizing is scummy. That is all. I don't know if you are the mafia, I just thought I would point that out.

Of course I want to appear nice to everyone. I AM nice to everyone.

And how am I making an excuse? I'm just saying that sometimes real life might be a little more important than a mafia game, no matter how much anyone else playing the game disagrees. And besides, have I really been that inactive? I have been doing my best to contribute. I just don't have time to get on as often as the rest of you (or at least, some of the rest of you. Others post even less than I do!)

@ McGiddle

I'm really suspicious of you to be honest.

I hate the beginning of these games, I try to get out of them as quick as possible so these stupid questions that hold no value to the game aren't worth more than a couple sentences.

I'm guessing here, but the beginning of a game can be the most telling at the end. You seem to claim you want to lay low until later in the game. What, so you might kill someone in the night and then say 'but look what i wrote here?’ That's the most you've written in the entire game, are you even interested in catching scum?

I agree. It makes sense that the Mafia would try to do that. I have my eye on McGriddle too.

I don't like the fact you agree with her

[camn's]

answer straight away.

This is true. Something I want to bring up is the possibility that camn is in the mafia! Nobody seems to be even taking into account that, as the IC for this game, she could be teaching us how to play in a devious way: by getting everyone to trust her, and then turning around and killing us all! Which would teach us to trust nobody. I'm going to start out right now and be like Reilster, not trusting ANYBODY.

@ Camn

You've inquired well, but just because you're the 'pro' doesn't mean I trust you. If you are scum, you were playing very well until POST #54. You can claim as the pro to be taking the lead and showing us where to go (e.g. voting nazgul) but that’s a very strong response for this early in the game.

Exactly!!! I totally agree with Reilster.

Scum and town have reasons for being apologetic, how does this further anything?

I guess it doesn't. Sorry! /irony

scum would only have to bother making up a reason, or avoid a vote on someone else. why did you add a an idea after your real reason which was,being annoyed at your u in your name. the real reason why you didn't vote else where was you not wanting to bother with making up a reason or to vote for anyone else.

Thank you for telling me what my actual reasoning was! I didn't know up until now! You are so useful!

Olinea: Thank you for explaining how self hammering is good for scum and bad for town. I knew it was bad for town but didn't necessarily think about it being good for scum. That's something to think about.

if you knew it was bad for town, how could you dismiss the fact that whats not good for town is good for mafia?

I meant it this way:
1. Hammering oneself as a townie = bad for town, good for Mafia. Ok, check. I knew that.
2. Hammering oneself as a Mafia = good for Mafia, bad for town. Oh wow, I never thought of the opposite! Thank you for pointing it out Olinea!

Does that satisfy you more? I am not stupid, just a bit slow on the uptake...

Are you glad you read it because now you can plan to stay off of scummy spots on a wagon? Why would you not hammer? discussion is good of course. How long are you willing to drag on a day round if people are confident in a person being scum? Just how long would you prolong something if you were the one who had to hammer?

I am glad I read it because it makes me a better player. I wouldn't want to hammer because I'm scared they would turn out to be a town player after all. I am willing to drag a day long enough for ME to be confident that someone is scum, not just others. I will not just succumb to peer pressure, if that's what you're asking.

So I take it that voting for oneself during random voting not something that people do often... but I have seen it in another game I am playing at the moment, and it was one of the SE's who did it!

Well, because an SE does it, doesn't mean it will not be questioned if it will do it. What did you expect to get from voting yourself after you knew it was bad?

Well, people dismissed it as meaningless in that game, so I figured they would dismiss it as meaningless in this game too. I really don't get why it is a big deal. Nobody else is complaining about anyone else's random votes, so I figured it wouldn't matter if I did that. Apparently I am wrong and its a big crime. Well, excuse me if I disagree!

Nazgûl:

I found nothing wrong with the self-vote. It was still RVS when it was made, so it's not like she was refusing to "show her hand" or anything.

Exactly! Geez, talk about making a mountain out of a mole-hill.

Rikka

- only 7 posts and already

obvtown

. I like that. I disagree with you taking the wind out of my lurkerhate.. because it really works better when people THINK I will lynch them out of hand with no remorse whatsoever.. but meh. Post more. We need you.

GPT

-

Die, lurker, die

. This is why I hate people who dont post: you have said nothing. I have nothing to read on you, which doesn't help the town AT ALL. Also, random votes suck, for the same reason self-votes suck. POST MORE!

Reilster

- I think your wishy-washiness is not a scumtell per se. I see it a lot with new players.. but it certainly is over conservative. Nobody expects you to know who the scum are.. so there is no need for fence-sitting.

probtown

.

Withnail

- Although I certainly agree with lurkervotes, I don't like your positions. It seems that all your attacks have been on policy grounds: "last to post" "only one sentence".. I don't see how those things are scummy. Actually I do, but I don't see why YOU think they are .. and your tone comes across as responsibility-avoiding voting.

probscum

.

Nazgûl

-

diescumdie

. My thoughts on you are clear. I think Thian brought up a REALLY good point on you, too.. the 'making up reasons to vote'. Even in the RVS, townies don't make up reasons. I anticipate you next post... but so far I see a lot of scumminess here.

Olinea

- I was not particularly interested in your questions, but I think you are pretty town. I believe you were just getting conversation going, and I support that. Plus, you got too much heat too early to be scum.

Town

.

McGriddle^

- See GPT. You should really get in the game.

No read.

Thian^

-

Obvtown

. I apologize for my annoyance with you, but you reminded me of someone I vigged once. I don't like how you ignored all my questions, mostly because it makes me question how you will hold up in endgame.. but for now, you are an asset.

camn*

-

Obvtown

. I see the normal cutthroat camn was shining through there for a while, but she will try and tone it down.

--------------

So, looking back..
The scum are

WITHNAIL

and

NAZGUL

..good thing my vote is in the right place.
If I am wrong about one of them, the remaining scum is in GPT or MCGRIDDLE by POE.
My

obv

town reads are almost always dead-on, so you can consider Rikka and Thian clear.

Haha! Consider Rikka and Thian clear. Good one!

Your opinion about

me

is totally and completely wrong, so why wouldn't your opinion about

them

be totally wrong too?

In my opinion, this entire post is just you trying to exert a sense of "I'm smarter than all of you, so you might as well all listen to me" over everyone here. And I'm not buying it for one second.

Also, I have heard that it is very scummy for a person to include themselves on their own town or scum lists, so I am going to point that out as well. I am pretty sure it's scummy for the same reason that it's scummy to vote for oneself, but in a backwards way. I really don't like that one bit. I mean, most people would just say "well, I know I'm town, so I'm not gonna include myself on this list" or even "I'm town, so I'll list myself first to get it out of the way", but you listed yourself LAST instead. I think that's worth noting because it doesn't follow the trend of what I listed above in this paragraph.

One other thing I think is worth noting is that you don't just call yourself "town", you call yourself "obvtown", which is not just "telling everyone else that you obviously think you're town, because you KNOW you're town", which I'm sure is what your response will be. The correct way to do that would be to list yourself as "town", would it not?

What you're really doing by listing yourself as "obvtown" is threefold. You are:

1. grouping yourself in the exact same category as Rikka and Thian, and trying to buddy with them that way.
2. subliminally trying to make it seem like you are superior to everyone else, and that it should be "obvious" that you are town. Which it's not.
3. and if somebody doesn't pay attention and is just skimming through, they might actually make the mistake of thinking it's somebody else's post, and you are on somebody ELSE'S "obvtown" list. I shouldn't have to explain why this is terrible.

Call these thin arguments if you want, but that is the subliminal kind of thing I've been on the lookout for this whole time, and you just triggered my subconscious in three ways by doing that post.

I am almost ready to vote, I think.

Nazgul

: I'm glad you unvoted - but surprised you didn't recast it for someone. It seems to me that votes are the main weapon the town has. To lynch with, obviously, but also to put pressure on people. Not voting also looks like you are trying to avoid building up a record, which I don't think is helpful to the town. We all need to take some stands, and with it the risk of being lynched as a result.

I think it is early enough in the game that I can afford to stay neutral for the moment. Yes, votes are our only weapon. But if I am going to vote somebody, I am going to make good and sure that I want them to be lynched. I do not take my votes lightly. If we just switch all the time, it makes them meaningless, and what's the point? I attach more of a sense of weight to my post, and when I vote for somebody, it will be because I want to lynch them.

Of course, all of what I said above does not apply to my random vote on myself. Look at me, being a hypocrite.

camn

: Before your last post, I was thinking that you are likely to be a very good player. In any game, I think as relative newbies we should all keep a very careful eye on the IC player, who is almost certainly the best equipped to pull the wool over our eyes if s/he happens to be Mafia. Fortunately the odds are 5/7 that you are town, but your choice to attack me obviously makes me suspicious of you. I'll respond to your points in a separate post - here I just want to comment on the rest.

As the IC player, you know your points will be very influential. You've picked out several people as clearly town-aligned, and cast very strong doubts against two of us. Your town-aligned picks are clearly very plausible, which makes the rest of what you say seem more credible. But still I find your doubts about Nazgul in particular much too strong for this stage of Day 1. I can't really believe that you believe it as strongly as you say. I wonder whether you are just stirring the pot to see what happens, or perhaps trying to focus attention away from a Mafia partner. In summary: I'm not sure what to make of you, and proceeding with caution!

I totally agree with this. Another reason I think camn might be in the Mafia!

Hmmm. That was a very town flavored post.
Which means there is another scum in Mcgriddle and GPT.

I am willing to lynch either. I dont like their votes on Oli, I don't like their activity level, and I am ready for blood.
That said

UNVOTE
VOTE: MCGRIDDLE

This can easily be a GPT vote, too, if anyone is so inclined.
But let's raise the stakes, and see what happens at L-2. I have a feeling withnail is onto something.

That's funny.

You're voting for ME, who you have a (and I quote) "

diescumdie

" read on, but then as soon as Withnail makes what you say is a (quoting again) "very town flavored post", you suddenly switch your vote to McGriddle, who you have NO READ on.

This is

extremely

suspect. Please explain immediately how you could possibly come to that conclusion?

[Olinea]

Vote: GPT

This is staying until we either get some content or a replacement.

[Jeffcole1]

Vote Count 1.5:

GPT (2): Rikka, Olinea
Olinea (2): GPT, McGriddle
McGriddle (2): Withnail, camn
Reilster (1): Thian
Thian (1): Reilster

Not Voting (1): Nazgûl

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch. Deadline is Saturday, October 23, 2010, at 9:00 PM EST.

GPT has been prodded.

[camn]

I am glad to see that Nazgul has finally posted! Although, the omgus-fueled rant part of it is disappointing.
I only have a few minutes, but I thought I would respond a little!

Fist, I am not smarter, just more bloodthirsty. I know I am kind of harsh sometimes, and I apologize for that.

Second:

... but you listed yourself LAST instead. I think that's worth noting...

I actually copied and pasted from the playerlist in post 1. But that is a nice reach...

Third:

What you're really doing by listing yourself as "obvtown" is threefold....

Actually, it is a running joke. Thus the smile.

Last:

This is extremely suspect. Please explain immediately how you could possibly come to that conclusion?

I am a bloodthirsty little slut.

In fact

UNVOTE,
VOTE GPT

Whoever has the most votes on my scumlist gets my vote. WHy? because if we lynch everyone on my list, we get a town win.
Your turn will come, Nazgul.. later.

[Olinea]

Checked GPT's page.

Last visited: Wed. Oct 06

Lurking hard.

[Thian]

I'm here, just waiting for activity to pick up from people. I am expecting those who have mentioned my activity levels are too high and interfere, to start showing how well you scum hunt because just as you state my high activity level is interfering, you guys are equally responsible for allowing scum to hide by not posting. I've taken in what most of you have said, but please understand, the less active we are, the worse it is for us. I'll be limiting my posts a bit more so others can get a word in and play without feeling intimidated to do so.

Reilster:
Reasons why I think you are scummy.

Post 84. you state to Rikka "I know you are going to claim it was to catch camn out".
1. How do you know Rikka was using anything to catch Camn?

2. If you are suspicious of everyone, why would you be concerned if Camn was to slip? What business is it of yours if another person were to slip up? if you are suspicious of everyones posts then we could have gained information from what was said when the person answered. We are trying to find potential slips, not stop them, which you did here. So why protect Camn if you are suspicious of her in the first place?

3. You reactively voted for me, instead of placing a true suspect / scum read vote on me. In my second game here, one scum voted for anyone who voted them, and the reactive vote is very similar to what transpired last game I was in. So, currently if you do find me scummy, thats okay. Your vote, to you, would be in the right place, but I know it isn't the case because you said it was more reactive/defensive vote. Who else is earning scum points with you Reilster besides me? Don't use the easy way out either. Pointing to inactives or lukers is easy to over come. We can ask for prods and or replacements if that is a concern of yours as we still have plenty of time.

4. In post 84, you assert to the fact that you will be telling the truth if you answer questions. Why do you need to tell us you will be telling the truth. You should be telling the truth from your first post.

5. Why have you asked Camn about her town and scum reads? and asking her to challenge you on asking questions to you.


Camn: Thanks for the apology and explanation. Why did you hand out townie cards to people? Is handing out obv town/probtown reads in favour of mafia or townies? In your own opinion of course. ((I know basic question to you, but I would like an opinion and then i will share mine))

Olinea: Stop with the play by plays. I will start accusing you of being john madden. Stating the obvious and not progressing anything. Where did post 88 get us Olinea? Where did post 105 get us either? Posting things that do not advance scum hunting, is active lurking. Scum don't want to prob or question people, its because they are scared to slip up or ask the wrong question that will out them. So what are you doing here? Are you afraid of slipping or asking a question that may potentially out you as scum?

@Mod: Please prod GPT, he needs to come around.

[Reilster]

Right, another big post here, but I still want responses from some of you on my big accusation post.

@camn, first a compliment, thank you for showing me that GPt and McG's vote is on olinea, real scummy. but their votes were early in the game, convenient, maybe, but still an semi-excuse.

Now, your Obvtown for Rikka. Really? Not saying he's an obvscum, but he's nowhere near obvtown IMO. Not enough substantial activity to be a defo townie. Also, theorectally, if you are scum, you would make your post, saying your town, + other scum is obvscum + 1 other to help cloud it. I'm not saying you're defo scum, just that would be what I would do if I was scum.

Also, Thain, he's not obvtown, and you're little argument was finished very soon, which is unusual for Thain.....

@ Nazgul

Well you at least are active, and answered, in a way. First of all your point against me, apologising for being late being a scummy move? Really? I was gonna say I'm sorry for being polite, but wouldn't that be scummy? You seem to want appear nice to everyone, personally I don't trust any of you, and so I'm going to tell you that. I hope your answers later hold some more substance. Also you've given a reason to not turn up very often, legitimate or not, that would be very convenient for scum.

Well I have heard that apologizing is scummy. That is all. I don't know if you are the mafia, I just thought I would point that out.

Of course I want to appear nice to everyone. I AM nice to everyone.

And how am I making an excuse? I'm just saying that sometimes real life might be a little more important than a mafia game, no matter how much anyone else playing the game disagrees. And besides, have I really been that inactive? I have been doing my best to contribute. I just don't have time to get on as often as the rest of you (or at least, some of the rest of you. Others post even less than I do!)

I'm not saying you're making excuses, is just wouldn't you agree that it would be convient for scum if they had a reason not to post when the heat was on?

Indeed, I missed posting yesterday, and will miss the odd day or two, but I will try not to, and go in with the attitude to post once every day.

@ Thain

Oh, I know you're going to claim it was to catch camn out, but still, I don't like the fact you agree with her answer straight away.

Why are you concerned if camn would be caught out?

I think you've misunderstood my post here. I would love it if camn got caught out, I just pre-empting what I thought the bog standard answer would have been, putting more pressure on him as he had to think up a different answer.

also to discuss your latest post.

Umm, to tell the truth I was struggling of things to say about you (without getting into old debates) and put this down as something to say which is illogical to me.

One or two rounds of questioning is good, but in one or two rounds I would hope to have a good read on someone, and then sit back and see how they react. Always being in someone's face gives them an opportunity to act defensive, whereas if you force them to scum hunt, can be intersting WHO they scum hunt.

I'm avoiding the question, I'm not you, but I already have a rough scale of townies and mafia (a.k.a. where each person is leaning), and so would question townie less, and mafia more.

Why did you have to say "to tell you the truth"? Were you not telling the truth before?

I see what you mean by taking a back seat, so granted, I hear you on that.

You did say you were suspicious of everyone by saying you see mafia in every single post, hence the big question post to everyone, if you are questioning townie less, and mafia more, then where have you exhibited questioning any townies less if you are still suspicious of everyone?

I know I said I would take a back seat, but things make me curious, and i will question them.

As I said in one of my earlier messages, when I apologised, I use over-the-top language. In my mind, 'To tell the truth' gives my argument more weight. In all most posts I totally believe in what I am saying, until proven wrong.


The point about Townie vs mafia. Well in my books, I have questioned different people at different times, questioning mafia more so than Townies. The big accusation post was to show what I thought on all of you, and at the moment you are all scum in my eyes. I know that’s negative, but I don’t want to trust anyone, as they could be easily tricking me.

GPT, get involved in the next few days, or I'm gonna move you to L-2.

[Reilster]

Thain was replying when your post was....posted. I'll respond now.

[Reilster]

Reilster:
Reasons why I think you are scummy.

Post 84. you state to Rikka "I know you are going to claim it was to catch camn out".
1. How do you know Rikka was using anything to catch Camn?

2. If you are suspicious of everyone, why would you be concerned if Camn was to slip? What business is it of yours if another person were to slip up? if you are suspicious of everyones posts then we could have gained information from what was said when the person answered. We are trying to find potential slips, not stop them, which you did here. So why protect Camn if you are suspicious of her in the first place?

3. You reactively voted for me, instead of placing a true suspect / scum read vote on me. In my second game here, one scum voted for anyone who voted them, and the reactive vote is very similar to what transpired last game I was in. So, currently if you do find me scummy, that’s okay. Your vote, to you, would be in the right place, but I know it isn't the case because you said it was more reactive/defensive vote. Who else is earning scum points with you Reilster besides me? Don't use the easy way out either. Pointing to inactives or lukers is easy to over come. We can ask for prods and or replacements if that is a concern of yours as we still have plenty of time.

4. In post 84, you assert to the fact that you will be telling the truth if you answer questions. Why do you need to tell us you will be telling the truth. You should be telling the truth from your first post.

5. Why have you asked Camn about her town and scum reads? and asking her to challenge you on asking questions to you.

1. I put myself in Rikka's shoes, trying to see how this would advance the Town's agenda. If I did it I would justify it by being town and trying to start a bandwagon, seeing who's going to jump onto it the strongest. And then assume they are scum. I thought that Rikka was trying to catch camn out via this. I also thought that camn was talking enough as it is, whereas Rikka seems to not actually be posting anything worthwhile, so i wanted him to start talking.

2.Explained in my previous post. It was more to provoke Rikka. I want to say 'to tell the truth' as I would natually say that. With my posts, I don't edit them, they are literally what comes out of my thoughts at the moment. Foolish maybe, but more transparent at the same time. I have answered this in point 1. camn has been talking enough to get reads on her, but rikka has been pretty quiet and I saw this as a way to get him talking.

3. I've explained this before, at the time of my voting a) you were most scum then (harassing people) and b) was going to have a flexible vote, and use it as a weapon to get people talking, but I can see how that would weaken my vote, and so it has stayed on you until I find someone truly scum worthy.

Other people: Well, as you stated, I am obviously suspicion of lurkers atm. But out of the active people I am particularly suspicious of Rikka (for posting a lot of fluff posts, 'active lurkers' as it has been stated.

and mainly McG as well, he seems to be acting really weird, saying he doesn't want to post early in the game. Really? That doesn't help town at all.

Yes, I know I've picked two weak activity players, that's because I have decent reads on the more active players, and I trust these two less than the most active people.

4. Third or fourth time I've made this point. My use of 'nice' language is excessive. I type what I think, indeed there'll probably be a error in this post, but I'm not going to edit, as this game takes long enough as it is.

5. Sorry, but isn't the role of the town to find scum by talking to each other? How is questioning sometimes accusations a bad thing? Also, a little confused by your second point, what do you really mean?

[Rikka]

I'll establish that my vote for GPT isn't random anymore, but a pressure vote. I'd like to see him get into the game more. Also from here on I'm reading from my last post, so that's the order for responses.

Olinea is going about being willing to lynch again (another threat, or real?).

I don't think the issue on Olinea is that big. I'm believing the claim right now that it was just icebreaker questions, and there wasn't much time between the post and the explanation for question 3. I do note Olinea's random vote was on you, and essentially your next post was a vote on Oli. I know there's one before, but there's a 2 minute difference between them.

@Nazgul: Well your posting, and you're rather.....spunky. Not that it is a bad quality to have, but in a game like this spunk is kind of odd. Not necessarily scummy, just odd. I also kidn of agree with your voting policy. I haven't fully worked out what mine is yet, being my first game, but I'm not big on throwing out votes lightly. For her vote switch, you had made a post by then, and it fits with her "go after lurkers" policy. But then switching to GPT. She has an explanation, but it it a bit flimsy.

I don't want you to take it that because camm has called my obvtown that I'm now fully trusting her every word. camm's aggressive play makes her a, well, "bloodthirsty little slut." She's either a really obvious town or a really obvious scum. That might sound like it's not useful to know, but I think it is. Some kind of read is worth noting over no read.

I'm not sure what you meant by "catching camm out." Was it, like, looking for a slip of the tongue. Either way, realize because you predict an answer doesn't mean they're scummy for using it. And I think you can understand why that way of speech, using phrases like "to tell the truth" looks scummy.

[Olinea]

Olinea: Stop with the play by plays. I will start accusing you of being john madden. Stating the obvious and not progressing anything. Where did post 88 get us Olinea? Where did post 105 get us either? Posting things that do not advance scum hunting, is active lurking. Scum don't want to prob or question people, its because they are scared to slip up or ask the wrong question that will out them. So what are you doing here? Are you afraid of slipping or asking a question that may potentially out you as scum?

@Mod: Please prod GPT, he needs to come around.

Post 88 was in response to this.

Also, I encourage you to write down what you think on EVERYONE. 2 scum are sweating at the moment from what I've said about them. Also, accuse me, I want to see people properly scum-hunting, I'll answer any questions easily, because I'll be telling the truth.

I wasn't sure if the question was directed towards camn or the entire group. So I figured I'd answer it anyways. Needed to organize my thoughts, anyways. I certainly was not "play-by-play"ing anything there, was I? Unless you and everyone else in the thread knew all of my reads anyways (Hint: You didn't).

Post 105 was to prove that GPT is either lurking hard or has forgotten which game he's in. It is justification of my vote and an incentive to get a few more in there.

And you need to read Jeffcole's posts more closely. GPT was prodded before your request.

[Rikka]

Who exactly were the people you had in mind when you said "i have 2 scum sweating?" Based off a quick reread of your posts it seems to be myself and Thian. And speaking personally, you don't really have anyone sweating.

[Olinea]

Who exactly were the people you had in mind when you said "i have 2 scum sweating?" Based off a quick reread of your posts it seems to be myself and Thian. And speaking personally, you don't really have anyone sweating.

Is that directed towards me or Reilster?

[Rikka]

Reilster

[Olinea]

Ah, alright then.

And a bit more of a response to Thian.

Scum don't want to prob or question people, its because they are scared to slip up or ask the wrong question that will out them. So what are you doing here? Are you afraid of slipping or asking a question that may potentially out you as scum?

Personally, I don't find my posting to be "active lurking", but in this game I'm trying to be a lot more brief in my posting, simply because my first game was a complete disaster for me. Last game I played in, I was a VT and went balls-to-the-wall, throwing around accusations on just about everyone, to the point where I accidentally convinced 4 people that I was scum, then started a not-so-strong wagon on another player who claimed Doc, causing me to get hammered a few hours before deadline. The guy who claimed Doc died the following night and, unfortunately for 7 of us, he was telling the truth.

Because I don't like fluff posting, and I hadn't realized people thought I was doing that, I'll be trying to do a bit more than only respond to stuff that immediately pertains to me.

I re-read and I'm starting to learn towards McGriddle as my prime suspect once again, simply because I'm 95% sure GPT is gonna get replaced and I don't wanna have someone replace in with votes on them. Griddle's had only 8 total posts, at least 25% of which aren't relevant, and I'm being very lenient on it. His only defense of himself so far reads

As a side note, get off my nuts, it's been like 3 days and I have been busy, sorry I couldn't post too much as I have had a life recently. And the only thing that's happening is a snowball of my wagon that has no foundation whatsoever. People in Mafiascum like to just lynch people day 1, and this is some of the same crap. If I only have 2 posts, and none of them keep me under the radar, how terrible of a scum would I be.

Breakdown:

As a side note, get off my nuts, it's been like 3 days and I have been busy, sorry I couldn't post too much as I have had a life recently.

I hope, for your sake, that you didn't write that with the mindset of "Anyone who posts more than me has no life". I doubt you did, though.

And the only thing that's happening is a snowball of my wagon that has no foundation whatsoever.

Trying to dismiss evidence against him by simply claiming "That's nothing" instead of addressing it.

People in Mafiascum like to just lynch people day 1, and this is some of the same crap.

Griddle, you may be an SE, but I can teach you a few things too: notably, that a Day 1 No Lynch is the

worst

possible thing that can happen in this game. I've got a mathematical breakdown of why that's true, if you dispute it.

If I only have 2 posts, and none of them keep me under the radar, how terrible of a scum would I be.

WIFOM.

[McGriddle]

No, I did not mean that towards town. I simply meant I have a new girl that occupies my life so I haven't had much time to get on here and defend myself against my own dislike for the beginning of games. I never said I wanted a no lynch. And I meant Day 1 as in real life. Obviously I want a lynch on day one but not an irl day 1. It was meant as an over exaggeration about how everyone likes to "just see blood" on the first day instead of acquiring information.

[Olinea]

No, I did not mean that towards town. I simply meant I have a new girl that occupies my life so I haven't had much time to get on here and defend myself against my own dislike for the beginning of games. I never said I wanted a no lynch. And I meant Day 1 as in real life. Obviously I want a lynch on day one but not an irl day 1. It was meant as an over exaggeration about how everyone likes to "just see blood" on the first day instead of acquiring information.

Ah. I was in the Mafia mindset when I read "Day 1".

Alright. But it's not really the beginning of the game anymore, so this is the part you like / dislike less.

[McGriddle]

I know, but like I said, I've been busy.

[Jeffcole1]

Vote Count 1.6:

GPT (3): Rikka, Olinea, camn
Olinea (2): GPT, McGriddle
Reilster (1): Thian
McGriddle (1): Withnail
Thian (1): Reilster

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch. Deadline is Saturday, October 23, 2010, at 9:00 PM EST.

[Withnail]

@Olinea: I thought both of the posts that Thian criticised you for were helpful.

-------

GPT, get involved in the next few days, or I'm gonna move you to L-2.

GPT is already at L-2. I think it would be bad to have someone replace in at L-1.

-------

@ Rikka, Nazgul, Thian, McGriddle

Four of us have given summaries of how we view all the other players. You haven't. Are you planning to do so? If so, now looks like a good time - before a new replacement arrives, and while the game has gone a bit quieter. If not, why not?

-------

While there wasn't much to read in our thread yesterday, I spent some time looking at the previous game that Thian & McGriddle played together - to get some context for McGriddle's behaviour in particular. I thought about posting a brief summary of what I found, but I'm not sure whether doing that is (a) allowed, (b) frowned upon, (c) not considered useful. camn, as IC, could you advise please?

[camn]

If the previous game is OVER, you can discuss it freely.
If it is ONGOING, you can NOT discuss it!

Referencing players old, completed games is VERY widespread, and not frowned on at all.
The body of a player's work is often referred to as their 'meta' and people use it/abuse it all the time.
Many players (myself included) keep lists of their old games on thier wiki pages, which can be used for meta-research purposes.

Phrases like scum-meta and town-meta are common.

So please! If that game is over, tell us your thoughts!

[Thian]

Alright, so since I didn't get a response from Camn about her reasons for handing out Townie cards..and partly to answer withnail as to why I haven't drawn up a run down of thoughts on players.

I believe handing out Townie Cards to be more beneficial to Mafia, as opposed to town.
- It allows scum to see just how well they are hiding in the group. How hard they have to work to get the spot light off of them or keep it off of them.
- It allows for scum to see who would be a potentially good candidate to night kill.
- If scum were the ones handing out Townie cards, it can make villagers easier to manipulate by saying they are obvtown or probtown to gain votes if used properly.

Why I haven't drawn up a full list of opinions of players.
That is a prime tool for scum to use while determining night kills in order to frame people. So why give them any more?

Dont get me wrong. I am all in understanding of why certain people deserve to be lynched. "Lurking" as everyone is so keen on. I am fully aware of GPT and Mcgriddle, and Nazgul not contributing. I don't agree with lynching a lurker when the deadline is 23rd of October. If by the time it gets closer to the date, then it will be taken into consideration.

All my Mafia games are completed, I only ever enter one game at a time and stay until it is completed. I don't like replacing out because it doesn't help having to get to know another person. It automatically makes people suspicious of the new replacement. Having to keep track of everyone in game is not good.

Reilster: I get your point about over the top language. just happened to be post timing why I had asked more than once.

Alright, so just as the group accused Nazgul of shutting down a line of conversation. You have done the same thing by stepping into someones shoes and stating a "standard" answer that might have come out of camn's mouth.

You answering a question that was for someone else, makes it look like
1. You know what this person is going to say
2. You have some connection with this person that makes you feel comfortable enough responding for them.
3. You are shutting down a line of conversation by not letting the person respond on their own.
4. You were scared that Camn would have slipped, when it wouldn't have mattered, since you shouldn't have concern whether or not she did.


Olinea:
Yes you are right, I did miss GPT's prod and thanks for your explanation on your previous game.

[Withnail]

OK then. I had a look at the previous game that McGriddle & Thian played together - Newbie 963.
(The game is finished. Here's the link: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 33&start=0 )

I wanted to see if McG's play in our game (which I find rather odd!) was typical of his normal style. Here's what I noticed about his play in 963.

- He replaced in as IC, and was a townie
- after a brief hello in his first post, in the second post he voted to put someone at L-1
- most of his posts were very short
- a pretty aggressive tone, including a few words you probably wouldn't say in front of your grandmother
- he became convinced that one particular player ("CB") was Mafia
- he focused exclusively on CB, and said explicitly that he wasn't even trying to identify CB's Mafia-partner
- when McG came under suspicion, he started asking to be lynched so as to "prove" that CB was Mafia. e.g. this: "Just kill me. You are going to feel so stupid when all of your logic fails and you let scum slip under the radar."
- he spent a long time at L-1 without saying anything, and not claiming either; iirc the game got stalled for quite a while at this point
- he eventually claimed (truthfully) that he was a vanilla townie, but said nothing else to defend himself
- he got lynched
- ... at the end of the game it turned out he was wrong about CB, who was also a townie

Important caveat: I started by looking at McG's posts in ISO, and tried to look at the context for a few of the more interesting ones. But I didn't try to read the whole game. I'm sure I've missed some of the subtleties of what was going on.

Questions to both McG and Thian:
- is that a fair summary? what important points have I missed/mispresented?
- is this the only game you've played together? (I didn't see Ythan in this one)

My initial thoughts, pending comments from McG and Thian:
- it's hard to say that McG's

style

of play in our game is very different from 963, when he was a townie
- he wasn't really a big asset to the town in 963

[Thian]

Questions to both McG and Thian:
- is that a fair summary? what important points have I missed/mispresented?
- is this the only game you've played together? (I didn't see Ythan in this one)

1. It is the only game I have played with him.

2. This was over a month ago, my first game ever, points about accusing who and what not in another game I don't remember too well.

3. It was Ythill, not Ythan ((sorry I didn't remember due to it being some time back and the names are similar)). Ythill in that game was the most dominant person to lead lynches and lead accusations, no matter what. Our group were really sheep like in that game.

4. As far as game summary, I don't remember him using language that was horrible, I remember him giving up when he was about to be lynched and I questioned him on that in the game why he wasn't scum hunting other people, or trying to defend himself, if he was town.

camn had asked a similiar question to me early on in the game about my opinion of Mcgriddle and what I remember of him. So you can compare it to your thoughts up there.

Post 30

Camn: I have only played 1 game with him. It was my first game on Mafiascum.net I did miserable. However one thing I did notice on his play, was when he was being lynched, he did face off against some pretty stubborn people. He didnt' bother trying to explain any further after his claim nor did he try to scum hunt anymore. So this is my second game with him which I am glad to at least to know one other person in this game and thats what I remember from the experience with him.