Mini 792 - Tofu Mafia. Game over!

[Herodotus]

Why do we need a consensus opinion on what lurking is? If you formalize it, that will allow players to look for ways to fall outside the imperfect formal definition while still lurking in practice. If they're called on it, they can just point to the consensus definition to excuse themselves.
But even if you don't formalize it (and I assume that you don't intend to) I'd rather the scum not know that certain townies will let them get away with certain things.

Random stage. I always vote something that catches my attention. Herodotus 31 feels forced and 32 feels fabricated (notice the smiley) but it could prob be just a bad impression.

Calling it random stage voting (here and in 65) but giving a reason like that looks slightly inconsistent.
Yes, those posts were forced/fabricated in a sense. I saw Porkens random vote one player (two players, technically) and then FoS another. I wondered what was going on there. I placed the vote because it would be likely to make him consider moving his own -- I wanted to see whether he would, and if he did, where he'd move it. So I wasn't really suspicious of SpyreX, and in that sense the vote, while not random, was fabricated.

unvote

My conclusion? Not much information from it. He gave a reasonable excuse for writing the fos without meaning it.

Voting first and giving reasons later is

bad

.

Is it bad to vote and not give reasons? Or is giving reasons later for a previously unexplained vote bad?

[Vi]

Voting first and giving reasons later is

bad

.

Is it bad to vote and not give reasons? Or is giving reasons later for a previously unexplained vote bad?

Under normal conditions, voting without stated reasons is annoying at the very least and can easily be justified by the votee claiming they were gambiting or somesuch stock reason. As Adel mentioned, it's not a universal rule - but it's something I would avoid unless I had a good reason for it.

You unvoted. Are you suspicious of anyone?

[Ectomancer]

Ectomancer 41 wrote:
VI
Daykill: Ectomancer
Also, the only game I've been in with you was Meerkat Manor, my second onsite.

Am I dead?

Quote:
Do you think it distracts from the current building bandwagons?

says the person that unvoted SpyreX .

And immediately voted for my second oddity, Porkens. I dont see the point of or like this snide comment, esprecially when it didn't actually answer the question.


@Adel - You're attitude regarding the answers to your questions is abrasive, and not what I've experienced from you. In fact, it sounds like when Ectomancer is being an arrogant jerk. You do know we could have simply refused to answer right? I answered simply because I didn't have to do any research, but if I had been forced to work for your answers, you probably wouldn't have gotten them. Stop ragging on those who didn't answer them all.

@everyone - I really don't care what your preference is for posting methods. Quit muddying the waters with your opinionated meta gamestyle crap.

In addition, I dislike the excuse "I thought we were still in the RVS" on principle. There was already quite a bit of nonrandom discussion going on, and your second "random" vote was rather unnecessary.

Exactly. When material is present and you insist on your "random" vote, all you are doing is avoiding commenting on the current situation, which is either scummy, lazy, inattentive, or clinging to this obesssive need to 'get in your random vote'.

Elmo has only posted once, and that contained what I would presume is his random vote (he's welcome to explain it when he comes back). You (tajo), on the other hand, NONrandomly voted away from springlullaby for no reason I could discern. I would expect a change of vote to have some reason behind it. You didn't provide one, etc.

In addition, I dislike the excuse "I thought we were still in the RVS" on principle. There was already quite a bit of nonrandom discussion going on, and your second "random" vote was rather unnecessary.

I have my reasons for that vote. The weak tells I always vote for in RVS. And when I voted Herodotus I was still in RVS.

Im indeed actually there. With my reread tonight I will finally get out of it.

This is ridiculous. I thought maybe you posted early before things got going, but no, there was all type of discussion going on. You're either lurking or afraid to take a position.

populartajo 78 wrote:
Quote:
Identification of your alts help me lynch you if you are scum, and establish your innocence if you are town. To not reveal your alts in this gave runs counter to the townie win-condition in this game
WTF? I have some alts, Im not going to reveleate them here. There is a purpose for having alts, you know?
I agree with the alpaca on this point.
I know this is a nomination game, but I didn't know we needed to send in a resumé to play or be read "properly"

Ummm yeah. You want meta, find meta. Demanding the names of alts and saying it is counter to the win condition in this game is not how I view it. Maybe you should make an MD poll and see how others feel about it. I suspect you will be in a very small majority.

I don't feel like wasting more time arguing this with you tajo. I'll just do it myself.

If I had the time, I would do it, Adel.

I would like you to answer all your questions also.

Agreed. I see no point in Adel waiting until last, or arguing about it. (how I see it)

If you really want to stalk everyone, you can use the Search function to find the topics someone's posted in (conveniently giving you a list!) within about forty seconds.

Vi may be an apt name for you after all..

Really necessary?

This is getting old and distractng. I think at this point I intend to lynch the most annoying. Too much bickering and very little scum related activity. Yuo can make a freaking case in 30 seconds. It doesnt even matter who they are.

You scared to have it examined? What;s to hide? Explain yoursef, unless you cant, and well....I guess you better head off an investigation,

@Artem:

OMG KITTEN

Do you think it defeats the purpose of wagoning someone for reactions if you tell everyone that's what you're doing?

This is off-putting, to me. I understand that you've stated you'll reveal your reasons later, but this is starting to feel like you're just kicking up sand for the fun of it.

I ceretainly do. I do think there are times when you might reveal it, but that's not before your weed is ready for harvest. Before that, you are just going to get crap and have wasted your time

I have to chime in though about Porkens and his "reactions" post. Clarify me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the purpose of that was reactions at all. It was a joke, a satire on some of the amazing that I know we've ALL seen in early day 1.

So, I dont get it.

A joke is an effective method of deflecting from a player real attack. Both the beginning and the end are not jokes. He chose those 2 players for reason. The question is, why did he abandon the first (after explaining why it was a null tell vite), It demands questions, I didnt read it as simply a joke. Im always reading between the lines behind the joke.

[Ectomancer]

Arg, website double posted an epic novel quote...

Deleted one of them for you.

[SpyreX]

A joke is an effective method of deflecting from a player real attack. Both the beginning and the end are not jokes. He chose those 2 players for reason. The question is, why did he abandon the first (after explaining why it was a null tell vite), It demands questions, I didnt read it as simply a joke. Im always reading between the lines behind the joke.

A joke can be, not is, an effective method of deflecting a real attack.

However, for that to be the case there would have to be a real attack to deflect from/to.

As for "abandoning" a vote.... I mean, maybe I'm waaay offbase here but the vote itself and the made up responses ARE the joke.

Short of some kind of "Porkens AND spring are scum and Porkens pulled the noobiest gambit trying to burn deflection away from a wagon that had no basis but somehow would get pushed to lynch in this setup because everyone else is sheeple" I do not get any scum (nor town) motivation for the joke.

It is simply null. A joke.

I'm really having a hard time figuring out your reactions and cause and effect with two of your major talking points thus far.

[caf19]

Votecount

Vi (1): SpyreX
SpyreX (1): Adel
Herodotus (2): Elmo, populartajo
Porkens (3): Artem, Ectomancer, springlullaby
springlullaby (1): Porkens
Zorblag (2): Vi, Korts
Elmo (1): Zorblag

Not voting

Herodotus

[Herodotus]

You unvoted. Are you suspicious of anyone?

Not to any significant degree.

Short of some kind of "Porkens AND spring are scum and Porkens pulled the noobiest gambit trying to burn deflection away from a wagon that had no basis but somehow would get pushed to lynch in this setup because everyone else is sheeple" I do not get any scum (nor town) motivation for the joke.

I agree.

Vote: Adel

You may be planning to contribute a lot soon, but so far you have not. You're "aware of the search function" but stated that the reason you insisted on everyone posting their own games was that you would "have to do all of the work myself" otherwise. It's about 20 seconds of work per player, that way. Not much more than finding their list within the thread.

[Porkens]

The worst part of all this is that it's taking focus away from the problem with Tajo's late "random" vote

There is a problem with that?

I think so. There were plenty of things to comment on, why did you feel that it was right to simply place a "random" vote? Wouldn't it have been better to comment on the issues concerning the game at that point?

The joke wouldn't have "worked" if I hadn't unvoted. The unvote was part of the joke.

This part is lost on me. Why the joke not have worked without the unvote?

If the mock discussion hadn't been sandwitched between the vote and unvote I felt it would have lacked context.

There's that word again though; "stick." To me, since both the vote and the unvote were in the same post...I mean, there was nothing in the interrim for me to consider. I would think that my intention to unvote from the moment I started typing would be obvious...

Alright, I'll rephrase: you've obviously thought about voting spring and that your vote would start to generate the typical content for Day 1. Having thought about it, why did you not go through with the vote?

Oh no; I didn't think about the merit of voting for Spring at all; I just saw that I could put

someone

at 3 votes and went from there. Like I said before; it was for the sake of the satire.

Of course the fact that you didn't go through with it makes you the guinea pig that we're riding on and not spring, so I'm not too heart-broken. Do you deserve to be lynched for your lack of vote (or lack of "sticking" to a vote, if you prefer) for spring? No. Do you deserve to have a wagon formed on you for the purposes of content generation? Heck yea. (though it seems that there are other candidates for competing wagons emerging)

I'm fine with this, of course.

Why do we need a consensus opinion on what lurking is? If you formalize it, that will allow players to look for ways to fall outside the imperfect formal definition while still lurking in practice. If they're called on it, they can just point to the consensus definition to excuse themselves.
But even if you don't formalize it (and I assume that you don't intend to) I'd rather the scum not know that certain townies will let them get away with certain things.

Wooo he's a smart one; QFT.

A joke is an effective method of deflecting from a player real attack. Both the beginning and the end are not jokes. He chose those 2 players for reason. The question is, why did he abandon the first (after explaining why it was a null tell vite), It demands questions, I didnt read it as simply a joke. Im always reading between the lines behind the joke.

I don't think there was anything to deflect. I did have reasons; Spring because that would be the third vote, and SpyreX becasue, well, I like voting for SpyreX (we're buddies so it's only natural).

Vote: Adel
You may be planning to contribute a lot soon, but so far you have not. You're "aware of the search function" but stated that the reason you insisted on everyone posting their own games was that you would "have to do all of the work myself" otherwise. It's about 20 seconds of work per player, that way. Not much more than finding their list within the thread.

I eagerly await Adel's explanations.

[Ectomancer]

It is simply null. A joke.

I'm really having a hard time figuring out your reactions and cause and effect with two of your major talking points thus far.

Meh, it is an interpretation open to individual experiences. My experience tells me that the manner in which he did it has something wrong with it. Why didn't he stay on Spring? You say it was part of the joke, which is certainly what he would like us to believe (and reason that you are parroting). I don't agree with your interpretation.
Let's put it another way. Why, in the random stage, would he pick someone to make a "joke" vote and then move off

after making a valid reason for it

, which really makes it

not

a random vote at all. Lots of people make joke votes on someone during RVS, and usually,

they leave them there temporarily because everyone knows its a joke vote.

Worse, if he had left it there, it would have been a 3 vote wagon, not a bad game launching point (we do want out of RVS).
Instead, he voted Spyrex. (randomly)
Also, I'm not saying this lumps you in with Porkens (necessarily), but now the guy most defending him is you, Spyrex.
I'm not entirely convinced on this, and I don't think I will be able to convince you either. I'll put it in my file cabinet, and if a slightly larger minority is convinced that you could be right, I'll remove the vote. Right now though, I'm going with my gut that people are much more likely to make slipups in the first couple pages, rather than later after they feel the need to really keep their guard up.

Let me point out just another personality quirk involved there. He removed it so that other people would know it was a joke. Ok, so what if he didn't and people started pressing him over it. So what? RVS would have ended (he in fact during his joke said "no more RVS hahmuhaha" or whatever)

So what we have in reality is a player who wanted to make a joke, but lacked the gumption to stick his neck out and take some pressure to get the game started.

My playstyle may be different, but people who appear to be afraid to stick their neck out concerns me.

[Ectomancer]

Short of some kind of "Porkens AND spring are scum and Porkens pulled the noobiest gambit trying to burn deflection away from a wagon that had no basis but somehow would get pushed to lynch in this setup because everyone else is sheeple" I do not get any scum (nor town) motivation for the joke.

Sorry, not sure I covered this. A Porkens pairing with either of you has very little support and 'testing' either on that basis would be stupid. It's the perceived reluctance to actually stick his neck out that concerns me. "Oh it was all a joke hahah!"
Alrighty then Mr. Reluctant...

[Ectomancer]

EctoTroll realizes he is beating this horse into glue. Porkens will simply exist on my 'probably not town' list.

unvote

The worst part of all this is that it's taking focus away from the problem with Tajo's late "random" vote

There is a problem with that?

I think so. There were plenty of things to comment on, why did you feel that it was right to simply place a "random" vote? Wouldn't it have been better to comment on the issues concerning the game at that point?

[SpyreX]

I'm "defending" him because your attack doesn't make sense. When combined with the "SpyreX hates discussion because of his noting wanting a month plus day 1 ways" business before it adds up to something that doesn't make sense.

Not that I think you're scum, yet. But by god its leaning that way.

On a surface level what you're saying isn't bad, but it just doesn't connect right.

Yea, we want out of RVS. Yes, it happens normally. No, it doesn't have to happen in like the 4th post of the game.

Yes, there could be secret ulterior motives for a "joke". No, it really doesn't appear to be the case here.

Its like some bizarro spaghetti syndrome. I cant tell if its the little townie that could or whitenoise scum ninja.

[Ectomancer]

EctoTroll realizes he is beating this horse into glue. Porkens will simply exist on my 'probably not town' list.

unvote

The worst part of all this is that it's taking focus away from the problem with Tajo's late "random" vote

There is a problem with that?

I think so. There were plenty of things to comment on, why did you feel that it was right to simply place a "random" vote? Wouldn't it have been better to comment on the issues concerning the game at that point?

EctoTroll remember mention this one time before. Tajo also avoid answer stuff. He worse than Porkens. People agree with Porkens. Me think Tajo has no ground under his clubfeet.

vote Tajo

[Korts]

Right now Troll no knows whether the actions Troll has commented are indications of town or scum play. Troll simply be noting the things that Troll finds interesting in some way as Troll sees them along with Troll's initial reactions. As the game progresses Troll will be able to put more things together and start to draw conclusions.

That is not the point. It may be clear that in general, early game avenues of discussion are just that, a way to start off somewhere, and are thus nulltells in perspective of the players involved--but to state this is blatant fence-sitting and counter-productive to the purpose of these early game avenues of discussion. You may not believe any one player's comments scummy per se, but not taking a side regardless of personal beliefs hurts discussion and through that the scumhunting abilities of town are crippled.

The same goes for your methodical "RVS" voting pattern: if you have a voting pattern that stays the same over multiple games regardless of alignment and other factors, you either don't comprehend the purpose in "random" voting or you are deliberately crippling the town's progress. Each "random" vote should be unique to the game and the situation.

I am more than comfortable with my vote right now.

Artem: OMG KITTEN

I agree. Artem, if you're scum, please change your avatar to something that will not make hating you so hard. Thanks.

SpyreX: I meant Xyl's Relative Chaos. I am sad you forgot that we played together

Herodotus makes a sound argument against defining the divide between lurking and non-lurking. I also don't see the purpose in that particular question. Anyone questioning the others either hasn't seen Adel in action before or doesn't want to. I support players posting a comprehensive list of previously played games and such. As for the alts, I understand Adel's implicit position that it serves to build a more complete meta of each player, but players shouldn't be browbeaten into revealing their alts, barring outed or public ones. I specifically dislike Adel's statement that anyone withholding alt identities is directly going against the pro-town win condition. Other than Herod's limited pool of completed games I can't see why a good enough meta profile cannot be built on each player.

I kind of agree with Ecto on Porkens' satire of Days 1. It was a strange move to unvote after clearly explaining that early wagons are nulltells. I specifically dislike that SpyreX sets up only one possibility for scum motivation, which is that Porkens AND spring must be scum and Porkens was pulling "the noobiest gambit". I can also see, for example, a Porkens/SpyreX connection based off the initial Porkens post, sprinkled with light distancing; this would be reinforced by SpyreX's insistence that Porkens' post was null.

That said, only SpyreX comes out truly suspicious from this exchange. I can relate to Porkens' appeal to the inherent symmetry of the vote-unvote being an important element of the satire.

[Korts]

EBWOP: I omitted this from my post on impulse, but I think it's relevant to my stance on the game anyway.

I have a bad gut feel on Herodotus, with nothing so far to back it up. IGMEOY.

[Ectomancer]

This post deleted by request.

[Ectomancer]

Oh man, I just realized that I would probably be ushered out the door with a pitchfork if I tried to join {BAM}

[SpyreX]

SpyreX: I meant Xyl's Relative Chaos. I am sad you forgot that we played together Sad

I was saying that when I made my "who have you played with" I dont think you were in the game yet. I haven't forgot you man.

As for Porkensgate.

Give me a legitimate scum-reason for that post. Something that would make any sense for it being anything BUT a joke. I read it, I laughed. Move on.

The fact it is such a talking point is strange to me and, maybe its meta creeping in, but in this particular game I cant see such a transparent maneuver from scum.

Not that he's town or not. Absolultey null. Because, well, this is all thats being talked about.

[Adel]

Anyhow, thanks for listening. I hope it helps to explain some of my oddness.

Which posts in this game contain the oddness you hope to explain? I'll looking for an answer that includes post numbers.

[Adel]

mod: please prod Elmo

did anyone else notice that he made a post on the site recently, just not in this game?

Who thinks he is lurking?

[Adel]

could all players please answer the following questions:

1. what games (with links) have you finished in the last 6 months?
2. what are your on-going games?
3. what is your personal definition of lurking?
4. of the players in this game, which players have you played with in the last six months?
5. what other names do you play mafia under here?
6. what other sites have you played at within the last six months?

in chronological order:

I REFUSE TO BE A PART OF THIS SUREFIRE ATTEMPT TO SUCKLE ALL THE INFORMATION NECESSARY TO SUBJUGATE US WITH YOUR DARKNESS

Or.

1.)
Open 122: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 26&start=0
Mini 741: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 61&start=0
Mini 702: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... start=1250
Mini 758: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=475
Mini 739: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=875
Mini 712: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=725
Newbie 723: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=250
You can also check my wiki if there is others I've missed. I haven't updated it in a while, but.

2.)
Mini 706 (dead): http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 54&start=0
Wheel of Time Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... start=1300
Lynch All Lurkers Mafia (dead): http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 46&start=0
Street Fighter 4 Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 48&start=0

3.) There's two kinds of lurking that worry me. The simple "I can't remember you are in the game" litmus test for actually not playing the game (that once is realized normally becomes "You have to get lynched because you are lurking so badly I can't remember you are in the game.") and the more insidious content-lurking. Lots of posts, lots of words... but not a lot of meaning.

4.) Spring, Ecto, Porkens, Vi(ish).
Zorblag(ish), tajo, &flay in ongoings.
Ish means that one of us replaced into the game after the other was dead. So.

5.) None.

6.) Epicmafia doesn't really count as mafia, but sure.

1: I think I did this last game we were in. Seriously too tedious for me to go through again. I haven't played in 2 months now.

2: This one

3: People who pop in every 4 days with 1 liners.

4: Adel, Springlullaby, Zorblag, spyrex. I think.

5: none

6: none

1.

Newbie 716 (http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10068)
Open 123 (http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10636)
Mini 743 (http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10488)
Mini 727 (http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10182)

There are others, but these are the most noteworthy.

2. This is the only game in which I'm alive right now.

3. When I feel that somebody's keeping up with the game, but purposefully refusing to provide content, I'd call them lurking.

4. Ecto, Spring, Hero, Tajo

5. None

6. None

1. From the top of my head, Hack Poetry Mini Normal; Killing Verses Mini Theme; Town of Merrin Mini Normal; Freelancer Large Theme.
2. Chosen Mini Theme; Beards Mini Normal; And Then There were None Mini Theme; DHDSM.
3. People who don't post.
4. In the last six months? Ectomancer and poptajo(ongoing) I think.
5. Nyballosulgniirkps
6. No comment.

1 and 2. It be easiest to look on Troll's wiki. It has the games broken down by current, finished as town and finished as scum. It covers slighty over 6 months but not by so much as to be bothersome Troll thinks.

3. Like a couple others Troll would break lurking into a couple categories. There be lurking by not posting for long stretches and active lurking which be anything where the player be posting but not making a noticeable effort to find scum. Troll answering these questions would probably count as active lurking if Troll made a pattern of this sort of thing and no contributed in other ways. Adel asking for the information be less likely to.

4. Troll thinks it just be populartajo. Spyrex did join a game after Troll died but we no had direct interaction. Troll no can think of the game that Ectomancer has in mind that Troll might have played with him.

5. None.

6. None.

1. what games (with links) have you finished in the last 6 months? I

have played tons of games in the last 6 months. Link them would be a pain in the ass. From the top of my head. All WIH, Family Guy, Past ages, Drawn together, Insane Assylum, etc

2. what are your on-going games?

Im in LAL, this game, Nasubi, Adel games, MKM, And there were none, Chosen, open 141,

3. what is your personal definition of lurking?

Not posting or posting dumb things to avoid prod.

4. of the players in this game, which players have you played with in the last six months?

Adel, spring, zorblag, spyrex, Vi, Artem, Elmo

5. what other names do you play mafia under here?

I have some alts, try to guess them.

6. what other sites have you played at within the last six months?

None.

1. You can click my wiki, it's quite comprehensive.
2. same.
3. reading a certain game but not contributing to it.
4. SpyreX, Herod, Vi, I think.
5. none
6. EpicMafia

1.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10068
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10526
plus some marathon games

2.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11252

3.
Posting only often enough to avoid prods would almost always qualify.
Averaging only X sentences per day that are relevant to the game would qualify as lurking for some value of X which probably depends on the game and the gamestate (though I'm not suggesting I would literally count.)
Making only meaningless statements about the game would often qualify as lurking.
If over a sustained period, I don't know another player's positions regarding the issues we're discussing, they're probably lurking.
Other characteristics of peoples' posting could also mean they were lurking. I can't think of a good complete definition.

4.
Porkens and Artem
again, not including marathon day games... which would add at least Spring and Populartajo

5.
If I was playing under a different username, I don't think I'd reveal that.

6.
None.

1 and 2. Refer to my wiki page.
3. Post elsewhere but not here over an extended period of time. (This is not to be confused with "Active Lurking", where you show up occasionally, say nothing of import, and leave.)
4. taco and Porkens.
5 and 6. I'll leave that for you to guess.

1. DHSDSM Alpha, Crackers!, Xyl's Relative Chaos, Open 133 Lovers, Open 108 Weak MD, Speed Dating Smalltown, WaTR, Roccisi Autumn, Newbie 709 and Newbie 728

2. Open 142 True Love, Mafia in Ludd, Roccisi Summer and DHSDSM Beta

3. lack of contribution

4. Ectomancer, Adel, springlullaby, SpyreX (I am sad you forgot me ), Vi, populartajo (I am sad you forgot me ), Elmo

5. outed alts are: Doc (Friends and Enemies and Enemies and That Other Guy) and Bloodmoney (latter was Martyr Mafia, replaced out); in DHSDSM alpha and beta i am half of Trotsky

6. EpicMafia, IRC, ScumChat

are these the final answers? I'll give Elmo 72 hours to reply, or get replaced, before I answer them myself.

[Porkens]

I guess I'm about done

defending

my joke. I can see how Ecto has it in his head, and that's fine (wrong, but fine), and I'm not going to jump on him for it. I will say, though, as a parting shot, that if I wanted to avoid sticking my neck out, I could have done that in a more elagent way.

I have noted, and am wary, of the profound nut-slurping I've recieved from SpyreX. Call this distaning if you want!

Ecto;

everyone has their baggage; I certainly do. Rest assured; I'll lynch you if your scum. I dunno about joinging {BaM}, we've never had any interest in the past

Adel

I forgot Elmo was in the game; I guess that would count as lurking to me. I'm sure interested to see where you're going with your little project. But yes; those are my final answers.

[Herodotus]

The reason I'm excusing Elmo (temporarily) is because Elmo warned us before the game that they might have to lurk due to RL factors. Otherwise, I might have voted Elmo in my last post.

[Zorblag]

Right now Troll no knows whether the actions Troll has commented are indications of town or scum play. Troll simply be noting the things that Troll finds interesting in some way as Troll sees them along with Troll's initial reactions. As the game progresses Troll will be able to put more things together and start to draw conclusions.

That is not the point. It may be clear that in general, early game avenues of discussion are just that, a way to start off somewhere, and are thus nulltells in perspective of the players involved--but to state this is blatant fence-sitting and counter-productive to the purpose of these early game avenues of discussion. You may not believe any one player's comments scummy per se, but not taking a side regardless of personal beliefs hurts discussion and through that the scumhunting abilities of town are crippled.

That be the second time you have refered to Troll's initial reactions as fence sitting. Troll was saying that the things Troll had seen no bothered Troll and no struck Troll as scummy on their own. Troll was attempting to provide opinions that others can use later on when looking at further things Troll has to add. If Troll were to try to make a case against Ectomancer, Porkens or SpyreX later on in the game and used their first posts as independent reasons that them were scummy that would be something that everyone could point to as a reason to suspect Troll. Troll much prefers to have people weigh in on the things that happen during the game sooner rather than later so that people no can wait till an opportune time to first express an opinion.

Out of curiosity, what be on either side of the fence that Troll be sitting on?

The same goes for your methodical "RVS" voting pattern: if you have a voting pattern that stays the same over multiple games regardless of alignment and other factors, you either don't comprehend the purpose in "random" voting or you are deliberately crippling the town's progress. Each "random" vote should be unique to the game and the situation.

Troll no believes that Troll ever said Troll used random voting. Troll no believes that there be any point to a random voting stage and so no tries to participate in one. What Troll be doing at the start of the game until Troll sees sufficiently scummy play be voting for those that have done the least to contribute to the game. At the very start when there be people who no have posted Troll needs a method to choose between them. After all have posted something, if Troll no has a strong thought about who be scum Troll takes a look at the information all have given us to work with and votes for the one who seems to Troll to have given the least.

Troll's vote typically be on the one that Troll would most like to see lynched at the time Troll makes it. Barring a better reason Troll makes this for lack of participation. If Korts feels that the random voting stage be important for some reason and that Troll no be following whatever rules this stage has then so be it. This no be the place to go into optimal early game play. Korts be reacting to what be happening and that be enough for Troll for now.

Adel

I forgot Elmo was in the game; I guess that would count as lurking to me. I'm sure interested to see where you're going with your little project. But yes; those are my final answers.

The danger of things like this (Elmo potentially slipping through the cracks and not being noticed by people) be one of the reasons that Troll has Troll's vote on Elmo just now for. Troll would be willing to say that Elmo be lurking but it be early enough that Troll be comfortable simply placing Troll's vote there and not making a big deal of it yet.

Not true, especially early in a day 1. There are numerous non-scummy reasons to place a vote without explicit reasoning.

Granted, but I don't think any of those reasons apply here.

Out of curiosity do you think that because you believe you know what populartajo's motives were or because you know the reasons one might vote without reasoning and think that none of them apply to populartajo in this case? Or if neither of those be the case, why did you say that you no thought populartajo's vote before giving reasons didn't fall into one of the cases where it would be non-scummy?

@SpyreX: Your vote still be on Vi. Does this because you think Vi's actions be scummy at this point or because you simply no have found anyone else worth voting for since the game started?

@springlullaby: Have your opinions on either Ectomancer or Porkens changed since your last post? Do you feel that Adel has given justification for his questions in a way that satisfies you at this time? What else has happened that be noteworthy? Troll's vote be on Elmo but really, despite the fat that springlullaby got some early votes and was the center of attention some at the start, Troll no has much at all to work with from her and would like to see more participation.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Elmo]

Ectomancer: Aw Stay strong!

Adel: 1. Georgetown, SPQR (Hydra), Return to New Catania. 2. Newbie 770. 3. Not posting for a long period of time. 4. Ecto was in New Catania. I don't think I've played with anyone else in the last six months. No comment on the last two, sorry

@people: Yeah, I'm ill, like I was worried about. Got a new bug to replace the old bug; I always get ill at the start of games, for some reason. I'm kind of surprised at "lurking", though - I would've thought posting every 2-3 days would be ok. If you want me to post more than that, say.