Open 120 - Rebels in the Palace - Game Over! before 756

[Trumpet of Doom]

Yeah, I want to see what reasoning Shin has (had, I guess, due to this impending replacement) for thinking random lynches are our best course of action. If he/she/it had run the numbers and knew the percentage chances of win/loss/happily-ever-after, that'd be one thing, but if not, that's something else entirely.

Shin, I looked at the Texas Justice page you had originally linked, and the main dissimilarity is that that game can be ended in one night. This one will take significantly longer. I'm trying to work the numbers on it, but I'm doing it by hand, so it'll take forever. If anyone wants to do it faster than I can, they're more than welcome to.

And what's the deal with the self-vote? I was going to vote you before you self-voted, but I'm having second thoughts now that it's L-2... in the only game I've been lynched in and turned up town, I was lynched on page 5, so I'm not going to lynch anyone else this early.

I will, however,

unvote: Empking

and get myself out of the RVS.

[BlakAdder]

Still here, please don't replace me.
As we seem to be out of the random voting stage, I'll

unvote

, but I'm not sure who I want to put my vote on yet. I'll be thinking for a bit longer. I will say that I didn't really like the little back-and-forth between zwetschenwasser and Empking.

[Empking]

Lynx: i don't understand your post. Could you clarify what you mean, since a literal reading of EMPking's response is: "blah blah, distraction if I respond to it as it was *not* a strong vote at all" is "blah blah, *not* a vote he'd stick with" and indeed it wasn't a vote Shin stuck with as you point out that he changed it without a reason or a response (and Shin's reasoning for new vote is basically the same as his original vote for EMPking).

Good catch. Yeah I think I botched that up with my last post after reading over it again. I got a little confused about that when he said, "by strong vote I meant he'd stick with it." I thought he meant he didn't respond to it because he thought it

was

a vote City would stick with. Which didn't make sense. Yeah I messed that up now I get what he means I retract my last post.

Now that I know what he meant the fact that he ignored it still applies. He can say now of course after City unvoted that it wasn't a strong enough reason to respond to. I just don't understand how he thought it would be distracting to defend yourself from a vote on you or how he could have gauged that City wouldn't stick with his vote(It seemed serious enough to me at least).

I'll repeat this question again ,Emp: do you condone the fact that Shin just brushed your vote off? Perhaps she thought you wouldn't "stick" with your vote either. Does it make her scummier in your eyes?

Yes it does make her scummier in my eyes.

(I hope you're not thinking I'm scummy because you can't read people.)

ToD: This can be over day 1. Also, give reasons with you're vote.

[Corvuus]

....

Shin: I guess it is probably too late but it wasn't my intention to get you to replace out or anything. This game is about reactions, responses, etc. If you did put in the effort and respond then we would get reads from you, etc. etc. and can discuss/make a better informed decision.

It was said several times (by several players) that they didn't want to do 'completely random lynching' without discussion and there is a reason why. You said that you thought Random lynching was the best several times so we wanted to know why you thought so, reads, etc.

but oh well. It is just beating a dead horse apparently. The only thing I think I get out of this is that it is unlikely that Shin is the king.

I'll post more later today.

Corv

[zwetschenwasser]

I think is trying to get us to think that by appealing to emotions. Also, sorry about that, mr. mod.

[Corvuus]

sorry, did I miss something? Your latest post doesn't make sense Zwet, or at least, I can't figure out who or what you are talking about.


C

[zwetschenwasser]

Shinnen.

[Trumpet of Doom]

ToD: This can be over day 1.

Sure, but I'm not expecting it to be (there's a one-in-twelve chance if we random lynch, people, that's less than 10%!) without some serious discussion and people figuring out who is more/less likely to be king/guard/rebel so that we really know who to vote for to lynch the king.

Also, give reasons with you're vote.

...you mean, my vote that's not on anyone right now? When I place it, I will.

If, on the other hand, you meant the vote I was going to place on Shin, it was mainly going to be for the "random lynching is obviously best" train of thought.

[zwetschenwasser]

You have to admit that game breaking is a viable strategy in this game, just not a particularly fun one.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Lynx: i don't understand your post. Could you clarify what you mean, since a literal reading of EMPking's response is: "blah blah, distraction if I respond to it as it was *not* a strong vote at all" is "blah blah, *not* a vote he'd stick with" and indeed it wasn't a vote Shin stuck with as you point out that he changed it without a reason or a response (and Shin's reasoning for new vote is basically the same as his original vote for EMPking).

Good catch. Yeah I think I botched that up with my last post after reading over it again. I got a little confused about that when he said, "by strong vote I meant he'd stick with it." I thought he meant he didn't respond to it because he thought it

was

a vote City would stick with. Which didn't make sense. Yeah I messed that up now I get what he means I retract my last post.

Now that I know what he meant the fact that he ignored it still applies. He can say now of course after City unvoted that it wasn't a strong enough reason to respond to. I just don't understand how he thought it would be distracting to defend yourself from a vote on you or how he could have gauged that City wouldn't stick with his vote(It seemed serious enough to me at least).

I'll repeat this question again ,Emp: do you condone the fact that Shin just brushed your vote off? Perhaps she thought you wouldn't "stick" with your vote either. Does it make her scummier in your eyes?

Yes it does make her scummier in my eyes.

(I hope you're not thinking I'm scummy because you can't read people.)[/quote/]
You think Shin was more scummy for doing exactly the same thing you did. How is this not hypocritical? You have nothing to say of the self_vote? It seems like a pretty big move from your top suspect to simply not respond to. Does Shin's replacing out change your stance?

I agree with Corvuus and I don't think Shin is the king. I highly highly doubt that Shin would ruin the game for everybody by getting herself lynched as king and end the game already. I don't think any type of defeatist player would be so low as to botch the game for everyone. Though a guard is still a possibility

On a completely ungame related note...Corvuus and Emp, did you guys ever consider investing in an avatar? I think the Avatar gives a better sense of the player's personality, an image to associate with that person, easier identification, and a little flavor to yourself. This is just me though I'm sure you have your reasons.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

EBWOP

Lynx The Antithesis wrote:
Corvuus wrote:

Lynx: i don't understand your post. Could you clarify what you mean, since a literal reading of EMPking's response is: "blah blah, distraction if I respond to it as it was *not* a strong vote at all" is "blah blah, *not* a vote he'd stick with" and indeed it wasn't a vote Shin stuck with as you point out that he changed it without a reason or a response (and Shin's reasoning for new vote is basically the same as his original vote for EMPking).


Good catch. Yeah I think I botched that up with my last post after reading over it again. I got a little confused about that when he said, "by strong vote I meant he'd stick with it." I thought he meant he didn't respond to it because he thought it was a vote City would stick with. Which didn't make sense. Yeah I messed that up now I get what he means I retract my last post.

Now that I know what he meant the fact that he ignored it still applies. He can say now of course after City unvoted that it wasn't a strong enough reason to respond to. I just don't understand how he thought it would be distracting to defend yourself from a vote on you or how he could have gauged that City wouldn't stick with his vote(It seemed serious enough to me at least).

I'll repeat this question again ,Emp: do you condone the fact that Shin just brushed your vote off? Perhaps she thought you wouldn't "stick" with your vote either. Does it make her scummier in your eyes?


Yes it does make her scummier in my eyes.

(I hope you're not thinking I'm scummy because you can't read people.)

You think Shin was more scummy for doing exactly the same thing you did. How is this not hypocritical? You have nothing to say of the self_vote? It seems like a pretty big move from your top suspect to simply not respond to. Does Shin's replacing out change your stance?

I agree with Corvuus and I don't think Shin is the king. I highly highly doubt that Shin would ruin the game for everybody by getting herself lynched as king and end the game already. I don't think any type of defeatist player would be so low as to botch the game for everyone. Though a guard is still a possibility

On a completely ungame related note...Corvuus and Emp, did you guys ever consider investing in an avatar? I think the Avatar gives a better sense of the player's personality, an image to associate with that person, easier identification, and a little flavor to yourself. This is just me though I'm sure you have your reasons.

[Empking]

Its not the same thing, because his vote appears and appeared to be little more that a random vote.

[Numberfourteen]

Sorry guys, Just so everyone knows, I probably will not have access to a computer on Mondays or Tuesdays. Sorry I have not posted. After reading though, I think my last post dissappeared. Or more likely I didn't hit submit.

I still do not see the reason for random killing, I do not think it is a viable strategy. If the way we chose the victim each day was truley random, say with a dice roll, or sosomething of that nature, then it would be a pretty good strategy. But as it stands, the "random" vote will be picked by the players, 4 of which definently will not vote the king. It would not be random at all, and you would have to get 7 of the eight remaining players to agree on who to lynch, while 4 other would be pushing for other players.

I want to vote shin, I really hate self voters, but I don't want to screw the replacement

[Empking's Alt]

We could dice roll it.

[Corvuus]

i just don't like avatars. simple as that.

Shin could still be a guard, but it is doubtful he is the 'king' due to attitude and also, if he was, and pursuing this course (for whatever reason), I don't think the 3 guards would necessarily stand by and watch or "hope it all blows over" due to the emotional WIFOM/mindgame. At any rate, I don't see much purpose in talking about shin until we get a replacement and see their response, etc.

-------------------------------------------

If it has any of 'us' making the decision then it really isn't random is it. I assumed random lynching to be 'rolling dice' or saying 'top 4 players on the list' die for the next 4 days, etc. etc. or something that is somewhat impartial.

If guards or king happen to be there, then gg.

At any rate, whether we decide to do 'purely' random lynching or not, we *must* have discussion, get responses and reads from people. If we find a guard at any moment in the next 4 days then we can re-read them and there is a good chance that they will have slipped up. I won't say more than that.

-----------

If it wasn't clear, I am waiting until we get all our replacements back.

C

[afatchic]

I want to vote shin, I really hate self voters, but I don't want to screw the replacement

In my experience, self-voters are more likely to be frustrated townies instead of scum. in this game i would say its very likely that he is not the king.

Anyways, more substantial post coming soon.

[sekinj]

Vote Count 5

(# of votes against) Voted Player - by Voter(s)

(0) afatchic
(0) BlakAdder
(0) Citytube
(0) Corvuus
(2) Empking - by Lynx the Antithesis, Numberfourteen
(1) Lynx The Antithesis - ortolan
(0) Numberfourteen
(0) ortolan
(1) Qanqan - afatchic

(5) Zachrulez - Citytube, Empking, Qanqan, Zachrulez, zwetschenwasser

(0) Trumpet of Doom
(0) zwetschenwasser

Seven (7) votes to Lynch.

Mod Notes:
- Zachrulez replaces Shinnen_no_Me.
- Still seeking replacement for Citytube.

[Zachrulez]

Hi all.

I'm replacing Shinnen

I noticed that I am replacing a self voter so I will undo that vote now

Unvote:

And I'll note that the mod has me voting twice...

just something that I thought I'd bring to her attention.

More later when I get home from work.

[zwetschenwasser]

I agree that he's probably not the king. However, his overall play suggests guarddom.

[Zachrulez]

I've read through the thread and generally disagree completely with the way my predecessor approached this game.

I do not believe random lynching is the best way to go about things in this game. You can argue the math to me all you like, but the more important fact that is getting ignored in that math is after you advocate a play that is likely to lynch rebels, our voting power is diluted, and the power of the guard and king vote becomes stronger.

It's not too hard to envision this strategy going completely wrong as it requires all but one of the town's vote to lynch the king until you hit guards... and that isn't even certain with random lynching.

Also there's the far simpler point that it's just downright lazy play.

I can not even begin to comprehend shinnen's play up to the point of replacement. 4 votes on me by other players and a self vote... this ought to be fun.

If we are going to insist on doing random lynches, why not lynch the one that proposed the idea in the first place? Empking.

I personally think it would be very interesting to see how he'd react if he did in fact get picked for a lynch by his own little random idea thing.

Anyway, that's where I stand.

I would probably suggest that this random lynching idea go to a vote though. If a majority of us agree on it, I'll go through with it despite my objections.

[Zachrulez]

We could dice roll it.

Who's gonna roll the dice?

[zwetschenwasser]

Empking, of course. Also,

Unvote

, as your predecessor definitely wasn't being fair to you or the spirit of the game.

[Zachrulez]

The reason I asked...

What if Empking is one of the guards or the king? Then we can't really trust HIM to do it can we?

[zwetschenwasser]

Hmm... Good point. But we can't really trust anyone not to be the king in this game.

[Corvuus]

I've already given a response to this, but I am interested in hearing what others say. My vote is 'no, and I wouldn't agree to it even if a majority agrees to it unless it was specified that it would happen after discussion (or tomorrow after we do lynch someone today since the odds doesn't change much due to their being no night kill) and that the 'targeting' would be something that is truly random with no influence. My previous example was killing the top 4 names on the list (or middle 4, bottom 4) or something that has a reasonable chance of hitting a guard/king and blatantly 'wide' enough that we might get some reaction out of it.

---------

I do find it interesting that you want to see how EMPking reacts to being 'picked' for a 'random' lynch and that is precisely the question i asked your 'player slot' before he replaced.

Corv