Newbie 898 - Game Over.

[Sarag]

Mod Note: smashbro_of_the_SSS replaces Deer. Deadline is now extended till 6:00 PM EST/3:00 PM EST on Wednesday, February 18th.

Thanks smashbro_of_the_SSS!

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

That's a pretty rough deadline for smashbro.

smashbro,

I suggest you look at RayFrost's and Seacore's ISOs to find the case against your slot, and SFG's and Col.Cathart's ISOs to find the case against Seacore. You two are the top two lynch candidates at the moment.

[Thor665]

Thor, you're my number three because I find the others more town than you, not because I find you scummier than them. Does that make sense?

Considering you list Deer and CJ as your top and (apparently) now me as third but said you had intended to do a case on Col.Cathart - no it really doesn't make much sense to me.

Insomuch as just generally stating - I find you scummier then the other players. There's no intrinsic flaw in that statement, though I wish you could point to some specifics.

[Seacore]

CJ isn't my top.

I used to think Deer and CJ were scum buddies.

But then CJ blundered, not realising that Deer was in strager's slot. It seems to me that scum would know who their buddy was. So it was either a brilliant move (unlikely) or it was newbie scum. I've read it as newbie scum.

Which brings me to deciding which of CJ or Smash is scum. And I think it's Smash.

I think Col is his buddy.

Then comes you, because scum-smash makes CJ town, and I feel all the others are more likely town than you.

[SFG]

Then why are you voting for Deer?

[Seacore]

Deer = smash

[SFG]

scratch that, i misread. Your post is really confusing. You read CJ's move as newb scum, and it led you to believe that CJ is town and SSS is scum? aoidfsahgd

[Thor665]

Then comes you, because scum-smash makes CJ town, and I feel all the others are more likely town than you.

So basically you're saying that you believe that either CJ or Deer/Smash are scum. If they are scum their partners are me (with Smash) and Col. (with CJ).

This makes me your third suspect because everyone looks more townie then me?

Wouldn't that make me your third suspect because you see me as Deer/Smash's scumbuddy? Why didn't you say so in the first place? What evidence do you see for Thor/Deer-Smash, because clearly you have some other then just thinking I'm less townish then other players.

[Thor665]

So basically you're saying that you believe that either CJ or Deer/Smash are scum. If they are scum their partners are me (with Smash) and Col. (with CJ).

I'll second SFG on how confusing your post is - re-reading it actually looks like you're saying Col. is your number two and you don't suspect CJ at all now?

[Sarag]

Seacore, I don't think you should clear CJ for that. He'd been away from the thread when Deer replaced in and may have just skimmed. There's no scumtalk during the day so he may not have been checking his qt. It's entirely possible to not realise who replaced your buddy if you're not paying much attention and your buddy flaked.

[Thor665]

scratch that, i misread. Your post is really confusing. You read CJ's move as newb scum, and it led you to believe that CJ is town and SSS is scum? aoidfsahgd

I reasonably agree with his take on it at least as far as suggesting it is highly unlikely that CJ and Deer/Smash are in cahoots as scum - I agree with that part of the read. I'm not sure how it actually suddenly clears CJ to be less likely then me when I'm simply "less townish" and not "more scummy".

Somehow the one comment by CJ transformed him in Seacore's eyes to being not just not scumbuddy with Deer, but flat out townish in appearance. This is either scum mixing up his fake scumhunt stories or just a really odd way of collating his evidence. Personally I have to say - despite how confusing it looks - I take this as a decent mark in Seacore's favor. I don't think scum would be working so hard to pull up evidence of a clearing of a scumpair he had been selling so hard. I don't think Seacore's work on either CJ or strager/Deer/SSS comes across as bussing a buddy, so why would he want to try to bring up a defense of CJ after he'd been working on lynching CJ so much?

Thoughts from anyone else (especially you SFG) I'm leaning back towards thinking Seacore is town with odd scumhunting skills at this point due to the above stated reasons.

[SFG]

Its a new scumtactic! Make your posts so confusing that well-meaning townspeople spend so long trying to understand you that they forget to vote and you win! $10,000!

ilu Seacore

[Seacore]

Okay, yes, it was confusingly worded.

I'll try again.
Either Smash or CJ is scum, I don't believe they are both scum, based on CJ's slip.
I feel Smash is more likely scum than CJ.
I feel that Col is likely the scum partner of whichever one is scum.
If i am incorrect about Col then Thor is the scum partner.

@Sarag. I know I'm probably being a bit lenient, but thats how I read it. Still, I want a Smash lynch, I'll deal with his buddy tomorrow.

[SFG]

awww, Thor ninja'd my post

Personally, I see Seacore's recent posts as scum flailing to get someone else lynched. Seacore's case on CJ fell through pretty nicely because everyone else is voting him or Deer, so he went looking for something that would let him escape the hole he was digging and instead push for a lynch on Deer, now SSS. Sarag, his scumbuddy, nudged him in that direction by taking that track himself, knowing full well that my buddy case on the two of them is pretty damning as soon as Seacore dies.

Then again, I seem to be seeing very few shades of gray around here lately.

[SFG]

loookie what I found!

Take 1

Take 2

The winning quote: "As for my case against CJ, I still believe it's strong."

con~tra~dic~tion~

[Sarag]

Yeah that confirmation bias is nasty.

[Seacore]

SFG, I did believe my case on CJ was strong. In fact, I DO believe my case on him was strong.
Then new information occured and I reevaluated, it's what we people outside the tunnel do.

[SFG]

Thank you Ms. Scumbuddy.

The point is, he clearly noted and thought about CJ's forgetful statement and yet, he didn't actually change his case on CJ based on that statement until it was convenient for him to do so.

Less notably,Thor made the same mistake, yet Seacore still has him on his scumlist.

[SFG]

BTW it never hurts to mention that you are rereading or reevaluating things, something you've been in the practice of stating before but for some reason didn't this time. I would have felt a lot better about this if you'd prefaced your new case with "while I was rereading" or something.

On another note, its not that I never go outside this tunnel you like referencing so much. I just got discouraged because every time I went out to take an objective analysis, the same person stood out on my scumdar like a sore thumb. And I really don't feel like reevaluating the cases until I can force myself to believe that someone else is guilty when I'm so obviously right.

[Seacore]

My issue is that I no longer believe I'm right that they are both scum, due to CJ's blunder in not realising deer replaced strager. I don't think CJ's good enough to pull off that kind of mind game. If he is, hats off to him.
I still think they're the two scummiest in this game and I'd be happy to vote for either today.

Which is the beginning of my thoughts of "damn, I guess I was wrong, they arent' both scum"

Then it was col actually, who threw the deer/seacore buddy idea out there, which I've already stated was ridiculous, but it made me look closer at deer again. But nothing I say is going to persuade you. So I'm just going to wait for CJ, Col and Thor to make up their minds.

When I die and flip town, Smash's going down.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

Ok, great, another page to read.

Hi guys, I'm smashbro_of_the_SSS, on here I go as SSSS, smash, or smashy, but I'll go by whatever. I don't think I'll have time to post much tonight, but I've read up to 28, and will make a post tomorrow. Just as a warning I don't usually quote as much as you, and I’d have a lot to quote lol. I’m used to shorter games, I’ve only played in one, and Day 1 was cut very short due to people not paying attention to the post count and a quick lynch.

So I’ll try to get a large post up tomorrow, maybe some tonight if I can.

[Thor665]

The winning quote: "As for my case against CJ, I still believe it's strong."

Oh, don't get me wrong - as noted I think his case and logic are absolutely terrible. The question becomes is - is this scummy flailing, or is this townie flailing?

I feel it's a serious question why Seacore, as flailing scum, would be trying to clear someone he had previously been shopping as clearly scum. I don't see that as an advantageous scum strategy.

[SFG]

Easy. Deer is the only other person who could even possibly be lynched today, so he's trying to salvage everything he can before he dies, because when he does everything he's trying to do goes kablooie

[Seacore]

It's not like I've jumped onto a Smash bandwagon to save myself.

I've been pushing for strager/Deer/Smash since early into the game, I've yet to see anything from them that makes me even pause in my want of them to die, except that, for a while, CJ seemed even scummier.

I do not see how anything I've done equates to the unexplained contradiction of thinking Ray was both cop and scum buddies with Col.

Let's also not forget that Ray was the NK, Ray who had almost nothing to say about myself or Lager/FF7/Sarag.

[Thor665]

I've been pushing for strager/Deer/Smash since early into the game, I've yet to see anything from them that makes me even pause in my want of them to die, except that, for a while, CJ seemed even scummier.

I think SFG's answer is more that, for a while on Day 2 (the infamous lynch CJ now and strager.Deer.Smash tomorrow post) you had shifted to wanting CJ lynched first. Now, with Deer/et al as the only other likely option beside yourself suddenly you find him the scummiest player and have found a reason to clear CJ. It's not a bad rebuttal to my position.

At least until quite recently your vote was on CJ over Deer/SSS/ect. and it's not an unreasonable stand to make that all you're doing is trying to drum up support for the other most likely lynch then yourself.

@Seacore in url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 56#2110156]this post[/url you said "Like I said, I'll investigate CJ a little later, his comments don't absolve him, in my eyes, of all the scummy things."

Yet, by dint of your SSS>Col.Cathart>Thor chain where I'm there because I look 'less townish' rather then more scummy - clearly CJ has been heavily cleared in your mind between then and now. What did it and where did it happen. Where you transparent about this change, and if so where?


@SFG - though I don't find Seacore's voting concept as transparent as he would like to claim looking back over it I see substantial and continual suspicion on strager/Deer/SSS with a fairly logical moment to shift from CJ to SSS (I strongly disagree with how much he cleared CJ at this point, and think that's silly, but the shift between two primary suspects does not seem odd). What are your thoughts on a SSS/CJ scumteam and do you think Seacore had reasonable logic to shift from suspecting Cj and then SSS to his new suspect list of SSS and then others. Personally I think it would look scummy if he had just said "hey, did a reread - I think SSS is scummier now" but he can and has specifically pointed at the point his case shifted and I can see him shifting when it happens.

[Thor665]

The intended link

Failure of brackets doth shame me.