Mini 527 - Doom in Valencia - Game Over!

[gorckat]

Did they know they were "lovers"? Shit.

FoS: Arakorn

and

Javert

I think our (hopefully) last scum is one of them.

[soupfly]

damn, that didn't work out at all

i'm almost positive that my trumpet is an alarm system that can protect players so i'll be using it to protect tar. if there's a doc out there they can also protect tar to be safe or protect me to block another lynch. i doubt they'll try and lynch tar again but you never know.

this was a bluff by me. i was hoping that by bluffing i could get the scum to not target either tar or myself. instead i used the rocket of death on mikeburnfire because he was tar's top suspect so i was pretty sure that he wasn't the mason.

that really didn't work out very well at all.

we have 5 players left of which 1 is scum and 4 are townies. of the townies we know neko and myself are townies because i think i've shown that i am indeed the inventor and neko was most likely confirmed by the forged money printer. that leaves three: gorckat, arakorn and javert.

if there is a doc i'd be in favor of a claim, but only if they do it very fast claim...don't give the scum a chance to figure out that there isn't a doc and then fake a claim. so if there's a doc they should claim immediately. if there's three confirmed townies then we can just pick off the remaining two players today and tomorrow with one sure to be scum.

[Tarhalindur]

LAME.

[Arakorn]

Did they know they were "lovers"? Shit.

FoS: Arakorn

and

Javert

I think our (hopefully) last scum is one of them.

Oh, why is that?
Just the same reasons Soup stated? Then that makes your post pretty useless

I am too 99% sure that either Javert or Gorckat is scum, myself I'm just a regular townie.
Gonna try to read a bit back in this thread, see what I can find from Gorckat's and Javert's posts...

[gorckat]

Oh, why is that?
Just the same reasons Soup stated? Then that makes your post pretty useless

Testy?

Yes- its "just the same reasons soup stated".

He's the inventor, he seems to have cleared Neko, I'm a townie, and that leaves you and Javert.

Hmm...wonder who could be scum? Is there some sort of process of elimination I could use?

[mikeburnfire]

I died.

X_X

[gorckat]

Hello, I'm Arakorn and I'll be replacing McStab. As there's already 11 pages here I really don't feel like thoroughly reading through them all, so could someone just quickly sum up what actions have been taken so far? (Like, which day and who were lynched and who night killed etc?)

Or, we haven't started yet? There's nothing in the first post at least...

Joined game, lack of effort hunting the next several posts (not the ones mentioning V/LA, obv)

I also think it's worth to give this a shot and lynch Meme, at least we'll get a confirmation on his role next morning... That is unless someone has protective powers to protect Tar.

Vote: MeMe

Tally:

MeMe: (3) (Tarhalindur, Soupfly, Arakorn)

Doc fishing and distancing.

I get the feeling that Arakorn has avoided putting himself on the line at any point.

Re-reading Javert, I see no obvious slips, but I just don't trust him. Can't explain it.

He did point out that the printer could have been a tracker, not investigator, and that doesn't dupe Tar's role as well. In the interest of being thorough, I started back on neko and found this:

Wow, am I the only one that doesn't like it when people don't explain their votes? Seriously people. Sik, if anyone was going to explain their vote on me, it should be you, otherwise, this just looks omgusy. But, welcome to the bandwagon. This should prove useful on Day 2.

Followed by:

Wow, am I the only one that doesn't like it when people don't explain their votes? Seriously people. Sik, if anyone was going to explain their vote on me, it should be you, otherwise, this just looks omgusy.

But, welcome to the bandwagon

. This should prove useful on Day 2.

That said, I'm not giving up yet. I'm just surprised there's this many people going against me with so little argument. To answer your question, Sik, I think the lurkers should be pressured yes, but lynched? wow that's a bit extreme.

And Pra, nice to meet another Minnesotan. I'm down in Mankato. Looking forward to hearing your input on this game. Good luck.

•

This was not the reaction I had hoped for, neko. Why can't you jusy be scum and get it over with? Why must you ruin all my fun?

unvote neko

Now we have to go back to lookin'...
::looks to gorc::
Are

you

scum?

That's an interesting exchange in hindsight.

[Javert]

soupfly, you were supposed to try to gain information

last night

, and use the 'Rocket of Death'

tonight

. Now if you have an invention that is investigative in nature, we will not know the results if you die tonight. We have gained absolutely nothing by your using the 'Rocket of Death' last night. Also, I would have

much

preferred if you had used the 'Rocket of Death' on me so I don't have to worry about being lynched. *sigh*

In any case, it is pretty clear that the scum has to be one of {neko2086, gorckat, Arakorn} -- I refuse to believe a Mafia Inventor who can kill twice in the same night. I have my preferences on who I believe to town (neko2086), but there is no sense in ignoring a salient possibility. Although I personally doubt neko2086 is mafia, I will point out for my sense of completeness that he is not "cleared" -- the only information soupfly technically received was that neko2086 made no actions on Night One. However, I think that that -- combined with his attitudes and actions towards both Sikario8 and MeMe -- make him extremely likely to be town, but not "cleared" in any strict sense.

It is apparent that players do not have the

option

of "choosing" to use the inventions soupfly sends out -- they simply have effects on players. The money forger gave a tracking result on neko2086; the bus role-blocked (at the very least) Tarhalindur; and the Rocket of Doom killed mikeburnfire. None of them had the option to "use" or "not use" these items.

~~~~~

I am a Townie. I strongly suggest not having such a fast day as yesterday -- in particular, I do not understand why everybody voted Gorgon so quickly. Tarhalindur made it clear that he wanted to

read the game again to make sure he liked his vote

, but everybody seemed to interpret his vote as the end-all of discussion -- something I would

discourage

doing again.

[neko2086]

Javert, stating that you're town does not help your case. I thought I'd mentioned this before.

I will agree that we should have taken more time for discussion yesterday. I, myself, was convinced that either MBF or Gorgon was scum, so I didn't give it much more thought. We do need today to last as long as possible.

Now, I have thoughts on javert, gorckat, and arakorn that could point to them being scum. For the moment, Javert is at the top of the list, simply because he insists on calling himself a townie. Telling us he's town over and over again doesn't make it true, and his story about not wanting to be lynched as a townie is an emotional appeal that makes me very uneasy.

Arakorn made a less-than-impressive entrance into the game, and has contributed very little. In his last post, he got defensive and also decided to share with us that he's a townie, neither of which is helpful.

I had suspicions of Gorckat at the very beginning of the game, and I'll have to review them now to see if they have any merit or not in light of recent events. It's mostly his voting style, but I have to look him over very critically now.

More later.

[Javert]

Telling us he's town over and over again doesn't make it true, and his story about not wanting to be lynched as a townie is an emotional appeal that makes me very uneasy.

1.)

My statement "I am a Townie" was in response to soupfly's calling for a Doctor claim; I was essentially claiming "Not Doctor". Since there is no point in trying to "hide" my role at this point, however, I simply claimed my full role instead of saying the just as 'unhelpful' "Not Doctor". I am positive Arakorn claiming Townie was in the exact same context.

2.)

If you are 'uneasy' with me for those reasons, you ought to do a background check on me. I am very upfront about being town, as well as the fact that I have never been lynched as town -- and I am upfront about this when I am both town and scum. I can cite several examples of this if you would like, but you will have to give me time to peruse my old games and find specific examples.

[Arakorn]

Arakorn made a less-than-impressive entrance into the game, and has contributed very little. In his last post, he got defensive and also decided to share with us that he's a townie, neither of which is helpful.

Well none of those lines makes me scum either. About saying I'm town, it wasn't entirely to deny that I'm not a doctor, although it was partly. I guess I just wanted to say that I had no special role, and well, also to tell you that I'm not scum...

[soupfly]

@javert: self metagaming takes us into WIFOM territory...cut it out, its not helping your case.

Officialzors vote count;

Not Voting; Everyone

[gorckat]

vote: Javert

I'm trusting my gut.

[Javert]

@javert: self metagaming takes us into WIFOM territory...cut it out, its not helping your case.

The only complaint against me that I have seen and can tangibly rebut is that I call myself town, and that I am pointing out I have never been lynched as town.

The only response I can give -- and it is a true response which you can verify yourself -- is that this is how I act whether I am town or scum.

As such,

this is not WIFOM

. WIFOM is when somebody claims something along the following lines:

If I were scum, I would do X.

What I am claiming is that I do X

regardless of my alignment

-- I am not making an argument for my alignment either way, but instead showing that those particular "points" against me ought not to be points against me, given how I play.

If you still believe this to be WIFOM, please give me your definition of it, and then show I fit into your definition.

~~~~~

My initial reaction to gorckat's vote is that he is showing a continual habit of not explaining his votes up-front; he gives himself plenty of time to think of reasons later, which makes it all the more difficult to gauge the sincerity of his votes. In particular, this is reminding me of his Day One neko2086, where he voted, did not explain, then vaguely averred "I've seen a handful of inconsistencies/things not jiving for me", and then after

other

players started attacking neko2086, he began using those using those reasons in the justification of his own vote. I don't believe he ever added his own commentary on his vote for at least two weeks.

[neko2086]

Javert has a very good point here. That was pretty much the problem I had with gorckat D1.

Also, looking at gorckat's last post, he didn't even mention anything about Javert. His arguments were mostly about Arakorn, so why the sudden change?

The Arakorn concerns are valid, though. This is going to be a difficult call. I'm still not sold on Javert, though. An appeal to emotion is not helpful, whether done constently or not. That just makes it a convenient excuse. I will agree, though, that that won't be enough to make a case. We need to look at every angle here.

[gorckat]

I know I made solid points re: Arakorn, but I think a scum Javert is more likely to get off in endgame than a scum Arakorn, thus I'm going that way. I know its intangible, but its my gut. Arakorn would be the likely choice at endgame.

[Javert]

Hmm.

FoS: gorckat

, that is a prime scum tactic, and one I have personally used before. Essentially, the tactic is as follows:

1.)

Determine how many lynches you need to win.

2.)

Then decide who you will lynch in order to achieve that number.

3.)

To choose the

order

of who to lynch, start with those players who are

hardest

to lynch, so that the endgame will give you as much leeway as possible.

4.)

Even if you fail to get that player lynched, you can still revert back to the easier lynched, hopefully having successfully discredited the more difficult player so endgame will not be

as

difficult as it was previously.

I will not be voting or coming to any firm conclusions until after I have had time to read the game, and ask questions. Feel free to respond to this post, though.

[Javert]

^ Additionally, if you are voting me on the basis that Arakorn is the easier lynch tomorrow, then your explanation of "gut" really does not apply as a justification to your vote.

Gut is something tingly inside you that makes you think a player is more likely to be scum -- not something that makes you think somebody will be easier or more difficult to lynch.

[gorckat]

then your explanation of "gut" really does not apply as a justification to your vote.

Sure it does.

1) I think one of you and Arakorn are scum.
2) I have nothing concrete on you- just a "tingly" uneasy feeling
3) I have points against Arakorn
4) My gut also tells me you would be harder to lynch in endgame

At this point, reason does enter in a tad:

If you're harder to lynch in endgame, and you're one of the two candidates for scum, then I go for you today and the easy, process of elimination scum tomorrow (there is an additonal nuance to tomorrow's lynch proceeding if you're not the scum, but I'm holding that back and will point it out provided I survive the night).

Just like you outlined in "scum tactic", except my motive is pro-town.

[neko2086]

o0

So, Arakorn is the more logical lynch, but you'd rather lynch Javert just because you don't want him there in the endgame?

Your reasoning almost sounds OK, except it relies on the fact that Javert and Arakorn are the only two possibilities for scum. For you, sure, this is true. But if you want to convince the rest of us, you have to keep in mind that there are three or four possibilites, you and I aren't necessarily cleared in everyone's eyes. I for one, think you are a definite possibility, thus your plan looks like an attempt to set up a seemingly fool-proof way for town to win, when in reality it could be the exact ticket for a town loss. In fact, if you're scum, it's the only ticket for a town loss unless you can convince everyone that I'm scum, which will obviously be more difficult. Essentially, you've outlined exactly what gorckat-scum needs to do if gorckat is indeed scum (yes, I'm addressing you in 3rd person). Calling it pro-town doesn't necessarily make it so.

[gorckat]

So, Arakorn is the more logical lynch, but you'd rather lynch Javert just because you don't want him there in the endgame?

Should the difficulty of lynching a person not be considered?

Essentially, you've outlined exactly what gorckat-scum needs to do if gorckat is indeed scum

True.

Do you think my willingness and eagerness to lynch the godfather day one, when I very easily could have pushed Arakorn, or even you, iirc, down is likely a scum move? Would I have voiced support for MeMe's lynch and guilt in the same post I said I needed time away from the game (when using that time could have allowed me distance from her)?

[Arakorn]

Would MeMe have voted for me, along with another scum (can't remember the name) if I was also scum?

[Arakorn]

To add to that, I'm 99% sure that we should lynch Javert or Gorckat, but of course you others are only 66.

Of those two, I'd rather lynch Gorkcat, but I have no particulare evidence against him, just felt that he was a bit suspicious the previous day.

[gorckat]

Would MeMe have voted for me, along with another scum (can't remember the name) if I was also scum?

Probably part of the gut against Javert. I remember thinking that earlier on Day 3, but forgot it at some point between then and now.

[neko2086]

Would MeMe have voted for me, along with another scum (can't remember the name) if I was also scum?

Possibly. It's called distancing.

Gorckat, you're right. You would have had to do quite a bit of bussing. I need to go over D1 again, but I can say D2 would have been a very easy bus. Scum would not want to be off that bus, really, because that doesn't look good at all. Actually, you weren't on that bus. You spoke against her, sure, and she voted herself before you'd have had the chance to vote for her. There's really nothing pointing to you being either on or off that bus due to timing issues. Everything is speculation at that point.

So anyway, we now have two people going off of gut and not evidence. This is fantastic. Voting off of gut this late in the game is

not

helpful. Despite being uneasy about Javert, he's currently the most pro-town acting player out of the 3 I see as possible scum.