Newbie 207 - Game Over

[Fritzler]

Fritzler, are you trying to help Ibaesha weasel out of this:

I find it scummy when people use math as part of their arguement and I tend to vote people for doing it.

Do you maintain that you "don't think she's saying its scummy, she's just saying she doesn't listen to it?"

Watch out, it's a trick question.

no, i just had to defend her cuz we're scum partners

[DrippingGoofball]

Watch out, it's a trick question.

no, i just had to defend her cuz we're scum partners

A-HA! You walked right into my clever trap.

[Fritzler]

Watch out, it's a trick question.

no, i just had to defend her cuz we're scum partners

A-HA! You walked right into my clever trap.

BOB SAGET!

[DrippingGoofball]

Fruitilicious!

Yum, gooseberry flavored gumballs... fruitcake with marzipan, argh, strawberry smoothie with yogurt!!!

Take me the the U-pick, take me with you, don't leave me A-LoOOoOooOOOONE! I want berries, berries in my basket, berries in my pies, berries topping my vanilla ice cream, berries in my straw hat, berries in my sneakers... GIVE THEM TO ME... berry wine makes little children dizzy and goofballs woozy!

They say... they say bananas are berries, but are they, really? They say that small fruits that grow on tree are bad, BAD!!! They hide in your closet at night, under your bed, they laugh at you, they want to KILL your Teddy Bear! Stain its insides with their red juices! Leave trails of sticky plush all over your crib. IT'S TRUE! But no one, No-One, he's the only one that believes me!

I told you! Stay away from my Teddy Bear, it's really a rabbit! DON'T MAKE ME DO IT!!!

[DrippingGoofball]

I don't know what happened here, I must still be waiting for the quiet ones to weigh in.

[gmk]

Yeah, let's hear from the quiet ones. Moocow? James? Vitamin? Lots of material to consider, what's your take?

(I'd include Fritzler, but that seems unlikely to be productive. Maybe he'll surprise me.)

[JamesSparrow]

i have seriosuly not changed my mind about anything... there hasn't been much new stuff brought up at all. i'm still convinced that fritzler is the best candidate for lynch because of his behavioral patterns that do not help, and possibly can hurt the town.

as you said it:

I'd include Fritzler, but that seems unlikely to be productive

if we lynch him:

best case scenario: we lynch one of two mafia members, we lose one townie to a hit, we possibly can prevent that if theres a doc and he gets lucky, and we could also get lucky if theres a cop investigating... worst case scenario: we lynch fritz who actually is a townie who isn't helping much, mafia hits one of us, and there is no doc or cop to do nightstuff... though no matter what we are rid of fritz's sporadic and ilogical voting methods. on top of that, we move on to day 2 (woah no way!).

[DrippingGoofball]

I will be away for one week beginning this Saturday. I may or may not have internet access...

[Fritzler]

best case scenario: we lynch one of two mafia members, we lose one townie to a hit, we possibly can prevent that if theres a doc and he gets lucky, and we could also get lucky if theres a cop investigating... worst case scenario: we lynch fritz who actually is a townie who isn't helping much, mafia hits one of us, and there is no doc or cop to do nightstuff... though no matter what we are rid of fritz's sporadic and ilogical voting methods. on top of that, we move on to day 2 (woah no way!).

Worst case scenario: FRitz is a power role.

[gmk]

i have seriosuly not changed my mind about anything... there hasn't been much new stuff brought up at all.

Really? All that back and forth between DGB and Ibaesha, and you don't find one or the other a bit suspicious? I find that suspicious in itself.

i'm still convinced that fritzler is the best candidate for lynch because of his behavioral patterns that do not help, and possibly can hurt the town.

This is the same "if we're going to lynch randomly, let's lynch Fritzler" argument that's been put forth before. And at the risk of repeating myself, this only makes sense if we fail to come to a more informed choice.

That said, I am tired of defending Fritzler too. Fritzler, the best way to defend yourself would be to share your thoughts on who you think is scummy, and why. Is that too much to ask of you?

[gmk]

I will be away for one week beginning this Saturday. I may or may not have internet access...

Given this, maybe we should prod Moocow and Vitamin? It would be nice to get this day over before DGB is away. I don't know the general policy on prodding, though...

[VitaminR]

I still like my vote on JamesSparrow. After the initial bandwagon on him died down, he seems to have restricted himself to pushing for a Fritzler lynch. While I would not regret a Fritzler lynch, we should be looking beyond that as well.

As far as the DGB vs. ibaesha-gmk debate is concerned, I haven't been able to glean much from DGB's behaviour. It seems to fit her normal playing style. Gmk is making a lot of good posts and is coming off pro-town. I don't like ibaesha's vehemence, though. While it seems to run along the same vein as gmk's posts, it doesn't hold as much logical analysis as I'd expect.

The game does not seem to be moving, however, and there doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm for a JamesSparrow lynch so I think I may change my vote soon.

[ibaesha]

Gmk is making a lot of good posts and is coming off pro-town.

DGB has said that gmk's posts are illogical and have faulty assumptions and has targetted me for agreeing with gmk. Now you also agree that gmk has made good posts. I'm still trying to find the fault in gmk's posts but can't.

[VitaminR]

I never said I agreed with DGB. I just don't think that necessarily means she's scummy. I tend to disagree with her vehemence, but it seems be present in her behaviour every game.

[ibaesha]

Hmm... did you read my post wrong?

[VitaminR]

I think so. What do you want to me clarify?

[ibaesha]

It's just that I didn't mean to imply in any way that you agree with DGB, but rather the opposite.

DGB has targetted me for agreeing with gmk's posts based on the belief that gmk's post are faulty and illogical. You agree with me that gmk posts are good and pro-townish. That's the point I'm trying to make. If I understand you correctly, you believe DGB is wrong, but not scummy, then?

[VitaminR]

Yes. It bothers me a little bit, actually. I can't seem to get much of a read on her. I really don't see much of a difference in terms of her usual behaviour.

[ibaesha]

Can't read Fritz.
Can't read DGB.

We should lynch one of them and go from there.

My vehemence is based partially over my being targetted by DGB for agreeing with what I see as pro-town behevior. The rest is that this game is dragging and I've attempted several times to move things along and it's not really worked so I'm frustrated. And when DGB made things interesting and I said so, then I was accused of cozying up.

This game makes me cranky. Let's do something, anything.

I don't know about James.
I think gmk looks pro-town
I think VitaminR looks pro-town.
I don't know about Moocow.
DGB falls under possible scum targetting me.
Fritz I flat can't read, ever and I always defend him Day 1 from people who want to lynch him for his playstyle. Always.

[gmk]

My lynch preference, in order, is:

DGB
James
Fritzler

If we're truly stuck, then I'd be willing to switch to James (reluctantly, since I feel that DGB is the better choice).

Vitamin -- if you were going to switch from James, who would you switch to?

[flyingm00c0w]

Yeah, let's hear from the quiet ones. Moocow? James? Vitamin? Lots of material to consider, what's your take?

I disagree. There really hasn't been that much to consider.

First there was a page of conversation devoted to discussing the scumminess of math, which in my opinion was a page wasted. Math is supposed to be logical. DGB's little probability chart was clear. A bit useless, since with only 7 people, a mislynch would be pretty fatal and shouldn't really be left to chance, but clear. I don't think DGB was trying to mislead. (I feel a little responsible because I threw out that 2/7 number without really thinking about it).

Ibaesha's aversion to math is pretty quirky, I thought, but nothing particularly scummy.

Now I said earlier that I wouldn't mind a Fritzler lynch, but JamesSparrow has still been my prime suspect. I can't articulate it, but I just feel like he's not quite as open/pro-town/analytical as the rest of you have been.

[quote:"JamesSparrow"]best case scenario: we lynch one of two mafia members, we lose one townie to a hit, we possibly can prevent that if theres a doc and he gets lucky, and we could also get lucky if theres a cop investigating... worst case scenario: we lynch fritz who actually is a townie who isn't helping much, mafia hits one of us, and there is no doc or cop to do nightstuff... though no matter what we are rid of fritz's sporadic and ilogical voting methods. on top of that, we move on to day 2 (woah no way!).[/quote] That was kind of how I felt earlier, mostly because we were stalling so much and I was starting to feel a bit impatient. I recognize now that it's a pretty dangerous feeling. But now that things have started to get heated I think a Fritzler lynch is obsolete.

Can't read Fritz.
Can't read DGB.

We should lynch one of them and go from there.

I'm still going to go for JamesSparrow.

As for DGB and Ibaesha:
To me, DGB does not come off as scummy. When she first mentioned the possibility of a Fritzler lynch, she put the matter up as a possibility. "Anybody up to lynch Fritzler?" was what she said, I think. When she does vote, it's for Ibaesha, not for one of the other two bandwagon favorites (Fritzler or JamesSparrow).

What followed was simply what I've come to learn is Ibaesha's natural reaction when she's under suspicion: violent counterattack.

So out of that little exchange, I don't think I've gleaned any more insight into either DGB or Ibaesha.

One thing that does bother me, though, is gmk and ibaesha's attachment to their old suspcions about OhGod. Sure, maybe it looked like he was trying to attach to JamesSparrow, but it could have been coincidental too.

My suspects:
JamesSparrow
maybe Fritzler

[flyingm00c0w]

also:

gmk: you said "lets be deliberate." I say, let's be objective.

I get the feeling that part of the reason you're suspecting DGB is because you two got into the whole math/your indictment of DGB's math/DGB's indictment of your indictment thing.

I think that two people can disagree without calling each other scum.

If you really think that DGB has been acting very suspicious, can we go over the reasons again? Because all I can think of is:
1) Her math/her efforts to throw suspicion off herself and onto Fritz
2) OhGod's strange voting pattern and defense of JamesSparrow earlier in the game

[gmk]

Don't have time for a full response now, but...

Moocow, you say you're going for JamesSparrow, but you're not voting currently, are you? Is that an oversight or intentional?

More later...

[flyingm00c0w]

vote: JamesSparrow

Oversight. I got carried away with my discussion.

[Blackberry]

Minkah Village Vote Count

[/color]

JamesSparrow

:: (3) :: (VitaminR, Fritzler, flyingm00c0w)

DrippingGoodball

:: (2) :: (Gmk, Ibaesha)

Fritzler

:: (1) :: (JamesSparrow)

Ibaesha

:: (1) :: (DrippingGoofball)

Four Votes to Lynch.

Sorry, back from vacation. Im a few shades pinker (i don't tan). lol.