Mini 579 - The Plagues of Egypt Mafia - Over

[hasdgfas]

vote: hackerhuck

because I don't want to get hacked

[hasdgfas]

HoS:lord_hur

would be a vote but I believe you are on 3 so far.
What is speculation on roles at this time going to do to help town?
Also

Fos:PyroDwarf

for more speculation.

Hmm sorry, I've not played with hidden roles before. So you're saying town doesn't want roles to be known, while scum on the contrary want them revealed?

I have trouble with the idea. I've always been said on the contrary that town does want to get more info, while scum's power lies in secrecy.

Could you please elaborate ?

If we discuss the setup, it will give the scum more information than we want them to have. It's best to keep them guessing about these things as much as we can.

[hasdgfas]

About what you said to Mr Stoofer though... Please tell me what gives you the *exclusive* right to questioning people ?

Questioning people for good reasons is an eminently pro-town attitude and should not be denied to anyone.

On the other hand, if you think someone's accusation is undue, it is perfectly fair game to question it. But it is not what you said.

If you look at the third quote I didn't really see it as a question, more 3 quotes of yours (a large body of evidence) and an accusation. To me it was trying to push something a bit far. I think most were happy to leave this speculating business alone but Stoofer wanted to bring it to the forefront again and has it help us any more since then?

If someone sees something scummy but doesn't point it out, it hurts the town whether there's already pressure on that scummy person or not. Why not point out scummy things that people do?

[hasdgfas]

I FoSed pyrodwarf for it page one.
Oh and that gives me another great idea

FoS and HoS:Musher333 & Singing Librarian

for trying to hush discussion.

VoD: I'm curious. Why are you throwing suspicion on so many different people? Especially without voting yet. I understand a couple of them, but it seems like anything suspicious, you throw out a FoS and don't say anything allowing them to respond to it. That doesn't help the town because it doesn't give us something to discuss. Give them something to respond to.

[hasdgfas]

Sorry folks, I had to go out of town unexpectedly. I have caught up on the thread and everything. I also feel that random voting has ended, and my vote on lord_hur should have been removed long ago

unvote lord_hur

Really? That's all you have to say about everything? So much has happened at yet all you do is unvote a random vote? I don't like this at all.

[hasdgfas]

Here are my thoughts on the discussion so far... I think speculation of roles is fine in the opening of the game, as long as they don't go too far as to possibly give scum good targets on the first night. Going with speculation on the Townie PM that is posted at the beginning of the thread is fine because everyone can see it, and if the scum received a different one they can speculate in private all they want as to the significance of the roles and the food. My only hope is that they can't somehow choose the plagues themselves, and they target certain food or roles... so revealing roles would be bad in this stage. I guess to get a better feel on the game would be to see what happens on Night 1, but that would mean losing some townies, which is bad. It seemed to me there was a lot of back and forth between thevampireofdusseldorf, lord_hur, and Mr Stoofer, which I think was good for stimulating discussion, but as of this point I am hesitant to place a vote on any person yet, because I couldn't for sure make a snap decision as to who was scum... I do, however, agree with lord_hur's reasoning for prodding characters, because I think it doesn't get him out of the spotlight, it makes him a more noticeable character, and could possibly mean (if he is not scum) a bigger target on his head. I think it is important to not let the day drag on too much, but I am afraid a hasty vote at this point may take out out a townie.

This post seems to me to be a lot of theory and speculation. I don't see anything here that actually moves the game forward.

Shin, a couple questions for you:
1) Why do you think we need another night to get a better feel for this game? Don't you think we can use 1 day to find scum? It seems to me like what's more important to you at this point is understanding the game as opposed to finding scum.
2) You don't need to make a "snap decision" as to who is scum. In fact, that's one of the worst things you could possibly do. It should be a more well thought-out decision as opposed to just deciding hastily.

[hasdgfas]

hasdgfas is scum. At the bottom of the thread, where it says 'display posts by previous', click hasdgfas, and view his posts in isolation:

Post 0 -- he random votes for HH because he doesn't want to get hacked. He is showing care for his own well being, even in his joke.

Post 1 -- he addresses a question posed to someone else (tvod, conveniently), and talks about how "we" shouldn't do "x" because that would help "them" -- the scum. This post is trying to be helpful but isn't, and interjects so tvod can't answer the question untainted.

Post 2 -- Similarly appears to be helpful but isn't really. 'Why not play mafia?'. ...

Post 3 -- hasdgfas is definitely directing tvod here; my most probable read is scum directing scum (partner, why do you act suspiciously? act better!) but I think that scum directing new town to look nice a pro-town is an almost as probable scenario.

Post 4 -- Casts minor suspicion and comments on how 'he doesn't like' something.

*sigh* my problem with these type of PBPAs is that you're not actually quoting the post or part of the post that you find suspicious.

0: Wait,

seriously?

You're accusing me for my reasoning in my arbitrary vote? While I understand and believe that you can take more out of the "random stage" than most people think, this really seems to be stretching for a reason.

1: I gathered that question as not just to VoD, but to the town, which is why I answered it, even though it might not have been the most eloquent response.

2: How is what I said there not helpful? VoD FoSed Stoofer for playing mafia. Why should that not be commented on?

3: Again, this is a bit out there. I can see where you're coming from, but questioning someone for what they say is how mafia is played. Why shouldn't I do that?

4: I hate people who jump in and say nothing at all. This was one of those posts that said nothing. While I don't always have a huge post each time I say something, I try to say something regarding what's gone on in the game.

[hasdgfas]

I've noticed something very interesting. At least, I found it interesting.

Also, I want to put the following point on the record:

If we do not lynch thevampireofdussledorf today, we should lynch SlySly.

Why?

Are you sure you want me to say this? Really?

What I mean, Guardian, is that I don't think that it is a good idea but I will explain if you (and only you) absolutely insist.

Stoofer, I don't insist.

unvote; vote: Mr Stoofer

I actually agree with the overburdening. lord_hur seems honest to me. I'm also really not buying tvod suspicion atm, and no one likes my thoughts on cow..

Now personally, I'd think that someone voting for you would be considered "insisting." Mr Stoofer hasn't really said anything about that since Guardian's vote on him. I find that a bit odd. Is it because Guardian didn't explicitly "insist"? Or is it because he wanted to just get off the issue? Or is there another reason?

Also,

unvote

[hasdgfas]

The why not a vote?

Bacause he's not stupid

Thanks, I think

[hasdgfas]

The why not a vote?

Bacause he's not stupid

Thanks, I think

Any reason to give for your lurking ?

I don't like showing up to not move the game forward at all. I couldn't think of anything useful to say in those 3 days that wouldn't be me just posting to post.

[hasdgfas]

Intuition, eh Guardian? Unfortunately, you're not female, so your intuition isn't as good.


Note: These have probably been mentioned, but I usually make note of things I see whether they've been mentioned or not

I've just done a read through on everyone and one thing leaped out at me that I hadn't spotted before, namely the fact that hasdgfas is posting regularly elsewhere on the site but hasn't posted here for 3 days. In my book that is more than enough to warrant

unvote; vote:hasdgfas

.

I still think thevampireofdussledorf has to die, though (if he is not scum he doesn't deserve to live).

Weak vote.

FoS: Stoofer

lord_hur why are you supporting Mr Stoofer?
If he wishes to just lynch someone for being anti town without actually hunting for scum then that is plain ole scummy behaviour to me.

Except that lynching someone for being anti-town when you don't have any other leads is your best option.

Well, I just wanted to make sure you knew, and that you weren't voting for me under a misapprehension. (Although to be honest I'd rather you weren't voting for me at all.)

@SlySly: you have understood my post about tvod correctly. But it is not anti-Town to want to kill a player who is hurting the town regardless of their alignment. Click here for a thread where lots of people express the view that killing players who are hurting the Town is a good idea regardless of their alignment. See posts 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 12, 15, 20, 21 -- all of which agree with me that sometime you have to have a lynch of the player that is not helping the Town. See especially 20 and 21, made by me before I got my role PM in this game.

I don't see where tVoD has actually hurt town that much, i know at the start he was throwing FoS's around like there was no tomorrow but to me that isn't a reason to lynch town. Lynching town because they have a bad start is a realy scummish response.

Vote Mr Stoofer

This is also a weak vote. Not a whole lot of reasoning behind it from what I can see. It appears to just be a bandwagon.

I happily admit some of my early FoSes were rather flippant and may have come across as a little bit scummish but that was an early game style thing I explained. Is my early play and different from lord_hurs early speculation?
From Post 204 you seem to have done a) with lord_hur and b) with me. And I dont believe any is more vote worthy. Rather in context either can be worthy of a vote.

"Early game style" should not be an excuse for anti-town behavior. I've seen it used to explain away mega lurking and a bunch of other things. Sometimes the people using that were town, but sometimes they were scum. It's a null tell, but it still shouldn't be excused.

Every time I read through this game, or any part of it, it makes my head hurt. I'm beginning to wonder whether I find tvod scummy partly because it takes me so long to even begin to fathom what he's talking about.

tvod, please please please edit and re-read your posts. It would really help us all.

This looks like you're just posting to post. I hate that.

And seriously, 4 days to a prod?

[hasdgfas]

hasdgfas - how is your posting in response to a prod any better than "posting just to post"? You made it sound like you didn't need to be prodded, yet you show up just after a prod.

I at least tried to contribute something as opposed to showing up and saying "Hi guys, I'm here." Even though my contributions haven't been as often as I'd like, I'm only going to post if there's something I notice and can respond to that somewhat moves the game forward. Sometimes that means I get prodded, but then that gives me something to respond to, at least.
This, however, is what I try not to do:

I'm still here ya'll. I've been busy at work, and come home too tired to think. I have tomorrow off, so I'll do a re-read.

Nothing moves the game forward at all. I feel that if you have the time to post in the game, you should have the time to find something to comment on.

And seriously, 4 days to a prod?

I should hope so. You'd get replaced for not posting for 4 days in one of my games.

Except there's nothing in the opening post saying to expect a prod after 4 days. If I was expecting to get prodded after 3-4 days, it'd be ok.

[hasdgfas]

HackerHuck,

Do you think it is scummy when a player avoids answering questions?

Sly: I'm curious. Why are you asking Huck in particular this question?

[hasdgfas]

Also, he says that players with more info are likely to be scum, then goes on and says he has information that he will reveal if guardian insists???

Hmm, what I gathered from what Stoofer said there was that he had a reason for his thoughts, not exactly info, and would reveal it if Guardian insisted, as opposed to him having more information than others.

[hasdgfas]

It is not our duty to keep repeating questions for you to avoid. It shouldn't take 3 reminders to get you to answer something.

I beg to differ.

Why? Shouldn't a question get answered the first time? Sometimes it's understandable, but what makes you think a question

should

take 3 reminders?

[hasdgfas]

I think Guardian could be a good lynch today:

First off, he seems to be pushing a case on me based on both smell and that "case" he posted early in the game.

He also seems to be jumping on people and not properly expounding upon his reasons for doing so. It, to me, seems like it's one of those "I'm gonna jump on and hope nobody notices because lots of people think that this is a good lynch"

[hasdgfas]

I feel like that's a fair categorization of my play.

Do you feel that it's good play?

[hasdgfas]

Wow. just wow. Now comes the "Do I believe him or not?" part of the claim. Gimme a little while to think and I'll return (hopefully) soon.

[hasdgfas]

Well, I'm not going to vote before another VC, but a Guardian lynch looks really, really good to me right now. I somewhat picked up on Guardian's faux-claim/breadcrumb early in the day, because I figured "Why would someone with no information be that confident on a certain person's scumminess?" I assumed he had some sort of information.

Then that claim came when it wasn't really needed. I'm always suspicious of claims that are unnecessary, because it's more like someone wants to get it out there and be believed for it, then actually being it.

Now Guardian's last post is pretty much crap:
Far too confident? Why wouldn't you be confident about a scum alignment for someone you thought was the cop, who was acting like a cop, and then backed off?
I also think it's safe to say that he's not giving up on tvod, but that he's found someone that he's

more

confident in.

I'm not buying it, Guardian.

[hasdgfas]

I am seriously wondering what guardian would have to gain if scum by claiming miller. Admitedly Guardian has playede a wierd game and I would dread the day I was given a miller role to play. But In a set up when there is not certainty we have a cop I can't understand drawing so much attention to yourself and trying to insinuate cop. Esentialy Guardians play style led to suspicion and this claim which is always going to be difficult and unhelpful to town.
Ima still on the

very likely jester

side of things and urge no one to hammer.
actualy putting that miller thing in code is dubious to the max as it shows serious forward planning about having to claim in the near future. What better cliam to get lynched than miller, even a scum claim is less likely to get you lynched than miller.
I think guardian played towards a planned claim that I am finding hard to believe but I think of it as less likely to come from scum than from a

Jester

.

NO! Let's not get distracted from a good lynch by talking about Jesters. All that can do is distract us. Bringing it up when we have nothing to make us think that there are Jesters is a terrible move and deserves a

FoS: tvod

from me. Also, how the heck does Jester fit the flavor here? Ancient Egypt/Biblical times. I just don't see a Jester fitting in, and I don't like how tvod brought it up. If he is a jester and wins day 1, so what. I don't care. We've gotten rid of someone very distracting and detrimental to the town, and can actually look for scum. I still think Guardian is our best bet for a lynch right now and I still

want a vote count please

.

[hasdgfas]

Big

question to people.....
Are you suspicious of me for bringing up the Guardian Jester possibility and my handling of the situation?
I am getting some vibes from people they are trying to set me back up as a lynch candidate for these things.

Yes, I suspect you for bringing it up. Jesters are one of those roles that are normally put into open/semi-open games, because people play differently if they know one is there. If they don't know one is there, they should lynch the scummy people. Guardian has played like crap all game, and that self-vote is the last straw. Someone who is town

should never self-vote

. Period. It hurts the town and distracts them. However, self-hammering is something scum would do in this situation simply because of the fact that it prevents them from doing anything else stupid during the day. I've convinced myself.

Vote: Guardian

If he is a Jester and wins, I really don't care, except that I will be forever mad at undo for doing something like this. I don't think so, however.

[hasdgfas]

Somehow I get the feeling we just lynched a Miller. Well at least it is an end to a long day one.

this is not long.

[hasdgfas]

Well, no clue on guardian, huh. Maybe his lack of death reveal is a conformation of his role.

I mean if he was a miller, he was niether town nor scum, so who would even bother figuring out who he is?

Or, the mod just decided that the night with an insect plauge wouldn't have a death reveal. IDK. TVod was pushing a jester wagon for some reason. Were you really that worried about it? Or did you want guardian around for some reason?

What? Why would you think that he's a miller based on his death scene? It wasn't revealed, so we should probably guess what the most likely role for Guardian was, and that, IMO, is scum. I really don't see what he did as pro-town, especially the self-vote. He's too good and experienced for that. I'm pretty sure he was just scum giving up/appealing to emotion/pity.

[hasdgfas]

When I got some time and energy sure will do sir!

how about now?

hasdgfaas seems a little too over the top with his conviction in that post. I also don't like how tvod just starts pushing for Stoofer.

I need to think something with regards to Guardian's alignment, and based on what I've seen from him, I'm pretty sure that he was scum.

[hasdgfas]

I think it's perfectly clear that it was the deceptive faux-cop-breadcrumb that motivated the lynch not the miller claim.

I already asked a question related to this to Mr Stoofer, who did not answer it.

I do not understand at all what would be the point for scum to claim cop, as it would be about the best way to give him away to the real cop.

Could someone could clear up this contradiction ? Because that's the main reason I believe Guardian on his miller claim (and it seems I'm about the only one).

he didn't claim cop, he simply hinted at it. If he claimed it, it would have been countered, but if he doesn't actually claim it, he can use that as an excuse. He said he was trying to use it to get NK'd as a possible cop, but he didn't actually claim cop, so the faux claim/breadcrumb is simply evidence that he was scum trying to pull one over on us.

[hasdgfas]

Hmm... personally, I think one of the things that would benefit town the most would be to understand how this partial-reveal thing works, why SlySly's role was revealed but not the others'.

If you think this is a good idea, do you have any leads? Or do you want everyone else to try to figure this out without you?

[hasdgfas]

Stoofer, you say the only people who are playing to hunt scum are those who have said i look scummy, i am not the only one who people can vote for you know, Stoofer is looking really scummy right now, not sure if i already am voting for him but if not then

Vote: Stoofer

Do you mind explaining why Stoofer is looking scummy?, because this looks like a scum lashing out at someone who has caught them.

[hasdgfas]

springlullaby's post seems to come out of nowhere and she's giving lord_hur the full court press. It seems a bit contrived to me.

You do realize that springlullaby entered the game 3 days ago, right HH?

[hasdgfas]

Hackerhuck, I can see what you are getting at but I'd prefer you criticize the content of my case and that you make clear your opinion on lord_hur.
What's phony in my case apart from the aggressiveness - which I can assure you is genuine?

The implication of my post is that you are scum bussing your scumbuddy lord_hur. I believe you are faking anger/emotion at him being scummy. I'm not disagreeing with what you said, rather how you said it.

I could move this along with a

vote: Lord_hur

The way that you phrase this makes me think that you don't think Lord_hur is scum. Why would you vote for someone that you don't think is scum?

Lord Hur is not scum.

Do I see a soft claim?

What wonderful fishing from you, sl.

SL, I don't know what your intent is, but please remember this is a no-reveal game. If a person claims, he/she will not be confirmed. Everything he/she says will not be taken for sure pro-town talk, even after death. So (though based only on my reasoning, as it's my first no-reveal game) claiming is a lesser strategy than in normal games.

lord_hur, do you know that the person lynched today will not have their role revealed?

[hasdgfas]

You may be right.

Musher333, can you explain - as precisely as possible - (I can't stress this enough, and please, more than one sentence) why you are thinking that Mr Stoofer seems "really scummy" ?

Its mainly because ( i know i have said this before and he has probably gave reasoning but i can't remember) that either he or guardian was staying close to the other and then as soon as the chances of guardian breadcrumming cop goes and he claims miller, BANG! Stoofer pushes hard for his lynch (Very much like he is for mine atm).

Musher333: As you know, I thought Guardian was a Cop until he admitted that he wasn't. So in fact, my plan was:

• I thought Guardian was a Cop --> I followed his votes and defended him.
  
• Guardian admitted he was trying to deceive people into thinking he was a Cop --> I tried to get him lynched because that is the behaviour of Scum.

Please explain why that is not a valid explanation for my interactions with Guardian.

@SeraphicMirth: TVOD is unlikely to be Scum, because of his interactions with Guardian-scum on day 1. And yes, I am prepared to assume that Guardian was Scum because only Scum pretend to be Cops when they are not.

Well i never thought of it like that, i understand the reasoning behind this style of play (much better than the style or lack of it that i use), i don't know why but although that should have seemed obvious it didnt look like that to me,

Unvote

.

Ok, sorry about not contributing to this game, but I kinda forgot about it.

I wanted to make a few comments about some things I've seen while reading.

The post I've already quoted: Stoofer had already explained his thought process for day 1, but just NOW you decide to listen and unvote?

Hackerhuck, I can see what you are getting at but I'd prefer you criticize the content of my case and that you make clear your opinion on lord_hur.
What's phony in my case apart from the aggressiveness - which I can assure you is genuine?

The implication of my post is that you are scum bussing your scumbuddy lord_hur. I believe you are faking anger/emotion at him being scummy. I'm not disagreeing with what you said, rather how you said it.

I could move this along with a

vote: Lord_hur

Ive got to agree with this, there seems to be just a lil over acting going on there.

What sort of overacting are you talking about?

Hackerhuck, I can see what you are getting at but I'd prefer you criticize the content of my case and that you make clear your opinion on lord_hur.
What's phony in my case apart from the aggressiveness - which I can assure you is genuine?

The implication of my post is that you are scum bussing your scumbuddy lord_hur. I believe you are faking anger/emotion at him being scummy. I'm not disagreeing with what you said, rather how you said it.

I could move this along with a

vote: Lord_hur

The way that you phrase this makes me think that you don't think Lord_hur is scum. Why would you vote for someone that you don't think is scum?

I phrased it this way so I wouldn't get the kind of question that SpringLullaby asked me - "If I'm scummy, why didn't you vote for me?" Considering my subject of my post was Springlullaby, I chose to use those words to explain why I picked Lord_hur as my vote. When choosing between two of my likely scums, I will go for the scummier of the two or the one who is likely to be lynched. I think a wagon will help at this point in the day.

I'm still getting the feeling that lord_hur and SpringLullaby are not very genuine in their interactions.

What makes you think they're not genuine in their interactions, HH?


I will

vote: Musher

as I want to hear more from him, and because I find him scummiest right now.

OMFG how have we not lynched Musher yet? Do you guys not understand the fact that he gave himself away, by accusing me of being scum

for defending Guardian

. That means that

he knew that Guardian was scum

. And the only way he could have known that was if he was Guardian's scum buddy.

I see another possible reason, but I'm not going to say it as I don't want to give him any outs.

[hasdgfas]

hasdgfas is apparently only following Mr Stoofer's opinion (he gave absolutely no reason for his vote, so that's my best guess).

Hello misrepresentation. Just because I didn't explicitly state my reasoning for my vote doesn't mean I'm just following stoofer. I definitely have reasons for it, but I really want to hear some defense from Musher before I say too much.

[hasdgfas]

Also, hasgdfas, why are you not voting?

Thank you for reading the vote count.

[hasdgfas]

Well one thing im thinking about is if i get replaced will they be happy (the replacement) if i have claimed, on the other hand it will help my defense if i do so here it is:

I am the Doctor, i can protect one person each night.

Do you have some flavor with that?

[hasdgfas]

Misread that, still, I'm not buying that claim.

Do you mind explaining why?

[hasdgfas]

Hasdgfas, what do you think of that claim?

I think that the fact that it came in parts looks pretty bad.

[hasdgfas]

I found something in my slight reread that I think is very interesting. A little while ago, strife pulled out this crazy theory:

As a side-theory that people may attack me for since it's heavy on speculation, is that scum may get to find out the identity of who they kill. This would explain the perfect job title as well as his eagerness to claim, if N0 kill (forget his name) was the doc.

An interesting theory to be sure, no evidence either way, but it does make you wonder. However, he seems to forget his own theory here:

You're right SL that scum could have made up the title, but a lack of counter-claim makes me think he's telling the truth. Of course given the 'no-reveal' rules, counter-claiming is risky in and of itself...

So I guess my logic is:
There's a very good chance of there being a doctor in this game (as in most minis).
If there's a doctor, there's a very good chance their title is 'Physician.'
Given that Musher said he was a doctor with the title Physician, I think he's either telling the truth, or our real doc (if we have one) has decided that since there is a no-reveal rule, counter-claiming wouldn't be smart.

First off, if strife's theory is correct, it would explain why Musher's claim is so "perfect" even if he is scum. Someone mentioned that they couldn't see musher coming up with that flavor. Well, maybe he didn't have to.
Next, I find it strange that strife would come up with that theory out of the blue like that.
I had something else I was thinking of, but I forgot it. I'll post it when I remember it.

[hasdgfas]

And now Musher himself can't even remember how he claimed. He said healer. Or was it doctor? Maybe it was medical specialist?

Come on now, it's time to drop the hammer.

:goodposting:

[hasdgfas]

The claim is not what I find scummy about him, it's everything *before* the claim.

Exactly. People seem to be forgetting that this isn't just about claims. You have to look at everything, not just the claim. Even if it's a believable claim, that doesn't mean he's not scum. Look at everything that's been said about him, people, and then try to tell us that his claim overrides all that.

[hasdgfas]

musher, if you didn't claim what I think you're claiming, that looks bad for you as well, because it's yet

another

thing you claimed separately from everything else.

[hasdgfas]

He's admitting he doesn't know what you're talking about. State it Musher.

If he doesnt know what im talking about then surely he is scum? I am sure someone has mentioned it before but he hasn't had long, i will give him a bit longer, I didn't want to have to claim this bit due to flavor it could be important though it doesn't seem to be as the plagues could be linked to it.

Why just Stoofer? Why not have everyone claim whether they know what you're talking about or not?

[hasdgfas]

I think Has would be a good choice for the day.

He's been more active in other games than this current one, despite all that's happened here.

He's been generally unhelpful, and has been much more a follower of bandwagons then one who's posted his own ideas and theories to justify votes. The justification of his lynch also doesn't rely on on knowing Guardian's alignment. Moreover, if his role isn't revealed upon death, we will lose much less information than if someone more active is lynched without a role-reveal.

This is not a very good reason for lynching someone. Activity differences between games are not a tell, and lynching someone who is, as you say, "being unhelpful" is not at all the same as lynching someone who is scum. Getting into a "let's lynch lurkers" is terrible for the town, because lurkers doesn't mean scum.

[hasdgfas]

Since people seem to think I haven't said much of anything on the claim, here are my thoughts on the claim, which I think I mentioned previously:

It's a null tell. I could see musher-scum, or musher-doc making the same claim. (Keep in mind, people, that if he's scum he's most likely not alone and he and his buddy/buddies would have probably TALKED about fake-claims.)

I find him neither more scummy nor less scummy for the claim, but he is still the one who seems the most scummy to me. It has already been mentioned why, so I'll leave you all to read that elsewhere in the thread.

[hasdgfas]

the lack of consequence if his alignment isn't revealed. Lynching lurkers isn't a great strategy in normal games, but becomes much better when the lynchees' alignment may not be revealed.

This makes no sense at all. Why is alignment possibly not getting revealed a reason to lynch "lurkers"?

[hasdgfas]

With no card-flip, the reason for lynching players with lots of contribution drops down, because their lynch doesn't give town any information. If we knew his alignment, we'd have a lot more to go off of today because we'd no who supported and who avoided his lynch.

um, wrong. Getting explicitly told alignment is only one of several ways of getting information. You can get information in many different places from a lynch, whether you get told alignment or not.

strife, I've got a question for you, since it's what I'm getting from your posts.

If we were playing a full no-reveal game, should we just lynch the lurkers because we're not getting any info from our lynches?

[hasdgfas]

If we were playing a full no-reveal game, should we just lynch the lurkers because we're not getting any info from our lynches?

No, you're just twisting my words and taking them to the extreme end of the spectrum. I'm saying under the present circumstances, I think your lynch would be the best. These circumstances being: a few days until deadline, (presumably) no card-flip, and the current train being on a claimed doc.

It's what I'm understanding from your posts, because you're not explaining why a "lurker" lynch is good for us at this point.

[hasdgfas]

I'd rather lynch a lurker that might be scum than a more active player that might be scum. I also think you're more likely to be scum than HackerHuck, making two strikes.

Why is a "lurker" lynch bad for us?

Because we should be lynching scum, not "lurkers"

[hasdgfas]

Since when are the two mutually exclusive? Scum usually have more motivation to lurk than town.

Except it rarely works out that way, if you've played any games.

[hasdgfas]

Good to see Hasdgfas is back to lurking after I voted for him partially because of it.

I'm sorry I can't post enough for you, oh Mr. Prolific.


Anyways, with Musher's reaction to lord_hur, I still like a Musher lynch. He's pushing too hard on something that we really don't need to push at this point. Although I find hur slightly scummy, SL hasn't been, and SL vouches for hur at this point.

[hasdgfas]

I'm going to look a little bit closer at springlullaby today, because I haven't really done that a whole lot this game. This is one of her posts from yesterday:

I'm against Musher lynch and I already said why, even though he is getting on my nerves thoroughly.

Says she's against Musher lynch and then throws in the "he is getting on my nerves." Why, exactly, is that necessary?

I prefer Hackerhuck lynch, his contribution is on the minimum side and I typically don't like his votes, he does more commenting on the game while agreeing with one wagon or another, then coming up with case of his own.

While a bit understandable, could you explain why agreeing as opposed to coming up with a case of his own is scummy?

I understand the suspicion on hasdgfas, though I'm less suspicious of him because there is nothing he said that dramatically ring my 'dar, but the problem is that he contribute even less than Hacker. I think it's an okay lynch.

So there's nothing I said that rings your scumdar, yet I was still a good lynch? I don't understand that at all.

If we let Musher go to night:

1. scum kill him - win because it confirms his alignment in case of no cardflip and because it's not a wasted lynch.
2.mafia doesn't kill him - win because he is still there tomorrow to lynch: if he is the true doc, he got one night more to protect people.

There are 2 problems with this, in my opinion:
1) Scum probably won't kill him if he's town due to the fact that he's been so suspicious.
2) There's no guarantee that a no kill means a successful Musher protection. I could go more in-depth into this if needed.

[hasdgfas]

Sorry about the delay. I read through yesterday and I'm still pretty puzzled by the goings on.

I'd like to think there's some method to the role reveals, but I can't figure anything out there. I'm also baffled by last night's kills. There's really no reason not to kill one of the masons - I haven't really seen much in the way of doubt that they're town. Besides, with the chance of a no-reveal it's not like they would be isntantly cleared from someone's death. That leads me to believe the scum either knew there would be a reveal last night or they just wanted to create more confusion.

Oddly enough, the more I find myself agreeing with Mr Stoofer, the uneasier I get. i don't really see him as scum, but I think he'll need to go when we get closer to endgame.

Here's a question for you Mr Stoofer - Given your assertion that Guardian is scum, what do you think about Guardian's suspicion of hasdgfas? Do you think it was bussing or just a red herring?

I would really like to get more insight on SeraphicMirth. Between her and Shin, that's my biggest whole at the moment.

What makes you think the scum know when reveals occur?

I'd really like SM to talk today, honestly. I want to know her and springlullaby's thoughts before we do too much, because we don't want them skating by as we do all the work.

Also, HH, I'm pretty sure there are great reasons to keep the masons alive, just think for a couple minutes.

[hasdgfas]

No. I assume that in a mini-theme game with powerroles there are 3 Scum.



:PREVIEW EDIT: I see why you asked the question now -- when I said "who is his buddy" I wasn't intending to imply that there was only one.

Also, this looks now like a very nice slip.

Could you please explain?

[hasdgfas]

stark: you seem to be making a lot of guesses as to the setup. What made you decide to come in and start out with a lot of setup speculation when nobody else had really any ideas? It gives me pause, because while all of it is quite plausible, I wonder how someone who had just come in could come up with all of these really plausible ideas unless they knew a little something about the setup.

[hasdgfas]

stark: why is unvoting required if we don't believe a claim, no, matter whether they claim doc/cop/roleblocker/bus driver/whatever? I don't understand why you said people should unvote musher.

[hasdgfas]

Hey Stoofer, I think you should claim.

I'm also liking LH's argument alot.

I'm curious, stark, as to why you thought a claim would be a good idea in this situation, when stoofer was still doing things to defend himself.

[hasdgfas]

So, I might be thick, but could someone point me to a post where someone went through and showed what Stoofer did that was scummy? Because all I've seen is people saying it without backing it up.

[hasdgfas]

Here we are, L-1.

Guess we can just wait for his claim now.

Or for scum to hammer him in case he's town.

I doubt this part, as he's V/LA until Monday, so if someone hammered now, they'd probably be lynched tomorrow.

[hasdgfas]

Blah blah blah, poor me, I'm so awesome, blah blah blah.

Abridged for people on the go.

So in summary, I am being lynched because (a) I have been the most active player, and (b) I "slipped" and revealed that there were 2 or 3 Scum, depending on whether you are Hacker Huck or lord_hur.

Yes.

Claim.

stark, no offense, but if that's your whole case, that's a load of crap.

[hasdgfas]

EBWOP: wait, is it true we did not find any scum yet?

we don't have any confirmed scum, but Guardian was very probably scum.

[hasdgfas]

Unless I missed an unvote, that's a lynch.

Lawrence unvoted right when he came in and just revoted, so day continues.

[hasdgfas]

I have a bit of limited access now, so once I get some more time, I'm going to respond to Stoofer's post in full.

Since you're the only one defending him, hascow, why shouldn't we lynch stoofer?

Because I haven't been convinced by your so-called "case"

[hasdgfas]

Why aren't you claiming, Stoofer?

read his posts.

[hasdgfas]

sounds good

[hasdgfas]

Stark and HH are my top suspects. I can give reasons if needed, but you just wanted my suspects for now.

[hasdgfas]

hasdfgas - who do you think is scum? Please answer before the the claims begin - if you read this before your turn.

Because this is all that was said when I was requested to state my suspects.

Also, stoofer said he wanted me to answer the question before claiming. Now he can claim and we get a bunch of stuff done, then if you still want me to, I can go more in-depth.

[hasdgfas]

So you think that the reasoning behind your suspicions would influence Mr Stoofer's claim?

It's possible that my reasoning may influence one or more claims. Let's just claim first and then if you still care, I'll say why.

[hasdgfas]

Name

: Nkozi

Occupation

: Architect

Game Role

: Townie

Eats

: Cereal

I will have no access from the 17th through most of the 21st.

[hasdgfas]

has,

What do you think about Stoofer's stalling?

Missed this.


I think you're making too much over it. For the most part, he's asked for things that make sense.

[hasdgfas]

I hate this game.

I hate this game so much.

So here are my results:

Night 1- Pyrodwarf tracked Guardian with no result

Night 2- SL tracked Mr. Stoofer with no result

Night 3- SL missed her choice

Night 4- I tracked HH with no result

Well, that's interesting.
Stark, do have any flavor with your role?

[hasdgfas]

Because I didn't realize that it might be a bad idea until after I claimed.

how very convenient......

Lord_hur and hasdfgas: how many scum do you think we have?

Well, due to the fact that there are only 6 alive and I don't think it's one, then it pretty much has to be 2.

[hasdgfas]

Because I didn't realize that it might be a bad idea until after I claimed.

Aw man, you caught me.

I can't believe you picked up the very subtle scumtell of mafia telling town

not to give them information.

You got me good.

Ah no. That's not what I meant at all. What I think you were doing is subtly "forgetting" that detail during the claims and then subtly "remembering" that it might be a bad idea afterwards.

[hasdgfas]

Regardless of the fact that I did not set the precedent for claiming food?

yes.

[hasdgfas]

wow. Just so you guys know, at 6 alive with 1-2 scum(which is what it looks like right now), no lynch is probably the correct play, because it narrows down the choices for the next day and doesn't involve losing overnight.
Look closely at Lawrence who basically had no reasoning for voting me. He says he did, but in this situation, you kind of have to give your reasoning to not look bad.

[hasdgfas]

Also look closely at stark, whose claim is kind of iffy and he switched the wagons basically at deadline leading to a poorly reasoned lynch based on an assumption of himself being town. How does that kind of lynch make any sense?

[hasdgfas]

2. The only thing we would get with a no-lynch would be -1 confirmed townie.

And not a loss if we have 2 scum left

[hasdgfas]

wait, did we seriously win? all right! I didn't think there was any way that was going to happen after I got lynched for the name thing.
We made a mistake the night we killed SL. We should have used death of the firstborns that night instead of, what was it, boils? I realized as soon as day broke that it would have had something bad happen to the masons.

It's definitely a good thing we picked the no reveal lynch plague day 1, because after we lynched Guardian and we didn't know what he was, we could make people think he was scum. I'm surprised nobody remembered that once I was lynched and everyone had figured out there were pretty obviously 2 scum total.

Was stark basically a naive tracker because the plagues did the work instead of us?
Also, what were the curable diseases for the doc to save from?

I thought the town did a fair job with the craziness of this setup. Nothing else right now.