Mini 579 - The Plagues of Egypt Mafia - Over

[Singing Librarian]

vote: Mr Stoofer

for having an abnormally large tongue in your avatar.

In the absence of much else to comment on, the pic of the trampling animals is extremely cool, though as I have a bizarre fear of crocodiles, it may keep me from sleeping for a while!

[Singing Librarian]

lord_hur, I would say that private speculation is good, but until we have a bit more information than we currently have (seeing the results of actions, etc), it is best not to speculate in the actual game thread itself. Any information the town has that can be kept from scum is best kept from them until it can be put together to form a firmer theory. For example, it's possible scum are thinking "what's this food thing they're going on about" - more details could give them more power.

[Singing Librarian]

unvote

We're out of the random voting stage now. I'm not sure where my vote would be best placed, but I think it wasn't in a good place.

I think we need to move on, though it is interesting that other early bits of speculation on the setup (e.g. PyroDwarf's) went unmentioned.

[Singing Librarian]

thevampireofdusseldorf, I wasn't trying to hush discussion. it seemed that particular thread of thought had reached the end of any usefulness, and moving on to something else would help a heck of a lot more.

[Singing Librarian]

I'm with Mr Stoofer. thecampireofdussledorf is making little sense to me at all, and is by far my strongest suspicion as I re-read through the game. Guardian's case on hasdfgas is interesting, but I feel he has been more helpful than the vampiric one.

vote: thevampireofdussledorf

[Singing Librarian]

@Singing Librarian : more activity please (only 4 posts, and your only attack had been following someone else). Also, you qualified Guardian's attack as interesting, could you tell me in which way ?

lord-Hur is right, my contributions have been lacking. So here's what I think of everyone's play in librarianic alphabetical order (I don't know everyone well enough to sort into subject-based categories...)

Guardian

Builds a case against hasdfgas in his first contentful post (post 92), which feels wrong after reading the whole thread through again (see my comment on hasdfgas below). In particular, I really don't see how hasdfgas is supposedly leading tvod. The most interesting thing about this post, though, although I disagree with it, is that it's probably the most clearly set-out case in the whole game so far.

HackerHuck

I don't really follow the reasons for the Guardian vote, but I do agree that a prod of SlySly would be more helpful than lynching the lurker after a relatively short time of play.

hasdgfas

Is very clear (post 23) about the reasons for avoiding too much speculation and discussion of town roles without throwing suspicion around, which makes me think that he genuinely wants to help the town. Continues to speak sense whenever he speaks (see eg post 50).

lord_hur

Received a lot of attention for speculation early on, but it definitely reads in a pro-town, excited to be playing sort of way rather than a scummy sort of way (trying to flush out power roles or the like). Others were right to call him on the speculation, to put a stop to anything that could potentially give scum an advantage. I find nothing scummy in his desire to speculate, even if it's not the best idea at this point. Gets a little over-defensive, but again not in a way that reeks of scum, but in a way that suggests relatively-new-at-this town.

Mr Stoofer

I don't really get his post no 30, as the things he talks about were public knowledge. However, it seems clear from continued discussion that he believed his case. He reacts calmly to the attacks from tvod, asks useful questions and generally makes sense.

Musher333

Has made 12 posts, but none of them make me form any opinion at all.

PyroDwarf

Received a lot less attention for speculation than lord-hur, but speculated less, so that makes sense. His few posts read on the pro-town side of neutral to me.

Shin Hatsubai

Has been very cautious, but I appreciate the statement (post 117) that he'd "rather mill things over and read the discussion before making the final decision as to who to vote for". That's definitely better than being blindly trigger-happy.

Singing Librarian

Is me. My contribution has been lacklustre, but I don't suspect myself, strangely enough.

SlySly

Was lurking, or away from keyboard, impossible to tell which.

thevampireofdusseldorf

I've already said I don't like his style, so I really ought to go into more detail.
***Post 31 - FoSes Mr Stoofer for "trying to add more weight to an already suspicion laden person. Not that there is anything wrong with that" - if there's nothing wrong with it, there's nothing to FoS, surely, and pointing out things that are suspicious is good town play, worthy of (if there is such a thing) an anti-FoS if anything.
***Post 39 - "I also viewed your overburdening of him with more suspicion suspicious" makes no sense. If something is suspicious, it should be pointed out, and not necessarily just once. If voicing a suspicion of someone who has already had suspicion voiced about them was suspicious, we'd never have any discussion.
***Post 51 - appears to find Mr Stoofer even more suspicious for repeating a question which tvod had not answered. (i.e. does tvod view Mr S's suspicion of lord_h as merited?). One thing you can almost guarantee in this game is that if you do not answer a question, it will get repeated either by the original questioner or someone else, so that shouldn't be surprising. Also, "I find it strange he needed me to coment on this first before he could say for himself he believed it merited." What? No, Mr Stoofer wanted a response. It was quite evident that he already believed the suspicion was merited, or he wouldn't have voiced it. What it looks like he wanted to know was whether tvod thought he was throwing out baseless accusations or jumping on a pointless bandwagon. It was evident to me that right or wrong, Mr Stoofer believed his suspicions had a basis in reality.
***Post 63 - Twists my hope to move discussion on to something fruitful into an attempt to stop it completely. Ditto for Musher333, who explains his reasons better than I did.
***Post 83 - Among the reasons for his vote on lord_hur is "asking for prods". Prods can only benefit town, not scum, as more involvement in the game means more information for said town and a better chance for discussion, debate and accurate lynching.
***Post 99 - Certainly seems to be suspecting Mr Stoofer more than lord_hur, even though he's still voting for lord_hur. Talks without actually answering any of the questions pointed his way.

TVOD is the one player where postings stand out as suspicious to me. Others have not posted enough to allow me to form an opinion either way and the remainder read as pro-town - so far, at least.

[Singing Librarian]

Do people understand my "if it is merited" comment?

No, I still don't get it. It's a pointless question for you to ask, because Mr Stooffer's answer would always be 'yes', though it may be a lie. Him asking you whether his suspicion was merited *was* a valid question, which you never really answered (your 'yes and no' was not an answer, because the sentences that followed were not concerned with answering the question).

Also I ask again why are people voting for me at this stage beyond the "you are the most scummy looking" or "I don't like your style"?

Well, I did list six posts of yours which contained things I didn't like, the things that make me think you are scum. I think that goes beyond a five-word accusation.

I generally play by focusing on a few people at a time and since I mentioned Singing Librarian earlier then a few things stand out at me as a bit scummy.

I think we need to move on, though it is interesting that other early bits of speculation on the setup (e.g. PyroDwarf's) went unmentioned.

Here I find it odd he states an incorect fact, maybe not paying attention to the game or perhaps needing to throw some created suspicion somewhere. Also I find it a bit strange saying lets move on from this speculation while at the same time casualy pointing out someone who was also speculating. I dont really understand the need to point this out (at least not in a post asking to move away from speculation discussion).

Yes, I was wrong, I missed the FoS, which was about the only thing. It just struck me as odd at the time that PyroDwarf's comments caused so little reaction compared to lord_hur's - it's always worth noting when different people get different reactions for similar things, though there could be many reasons for it.

Post 132

TVOD is the one player where postings stand out as suspicious to me. Others have not posted enough to allow me to form an opinion either way and the remainder read as pro-town - so far, at least.

So it seems I am the only possible scum to you. It would be in your best interests (perhaps) and towns to let day one progress further so you can get opinions on other players.

This is what will happen, yes - as the day goes on, more people will post more things and everyone can form better opinions of them. That's what happens in mafia. You are not the only possible scum, you're just the only person who stands out to me as being scum. There must be at least one more, but nobody else stands out. Yet. Which is why I said "so far, at least".

I do find it a bit odd you make a full player analysis when you obviously dont have any opinion on many players when it comes to scum or town except me. Is this posting out of need not desire?
They seem to be mainly plain observations of a few things each player has done.

Sometimes plain observations can be helpful if others haven't noticed them. And I have certainly formed opinions on several players when it comes to 'town', which should be obvious from reading my post (eg the fact that I disagree with Guardian's analysis of hasdfgas). Posting a list of 'I believe these players are town' would be unhelpful. If we all did that and certain names appeared on all of them, who do you think the scum would kill? The person we all trust, of course.

Also I just looked at Musher333 and besides quoting he has only ever posted one or two sentences per post. So twelve post but not a great deal of contribution.

That's pretty much what I meant. 12 posts which made me form no opinion either way because they lack content.

[Singing Librarian]

And what questions "pointed" my way did I not answer?

Basically, the question Mr Stoofer had been asking you - did you personally believe that his suspicion of lord_hur was merited? You did not answer that at all. you said 'yes and no', but went on to qualify that, by actually talking about your own suspicions of Mr Stoofer. You completely avoided the actual question.

Why was it a new point that lord_hur was scummy?

It wasn't!!! Nobody has ever suggested that. The suggestion is that Mr Stoofer pointed out that lord_hur seemed to have more information about the set-up in general than was public knowledge (though I disagree on that point). This was a new point, as the previous points had been about speculation in general. Mr Stoofer's point seemed to be about the difference between knowledge levels of scum and of town, which is *different* to what others had said about lord_hur.

[Singing Librarian]

Every time I read through this game, or any part of it, it makes my head hurt. I'm beginning to wonder whether I find tvod scummy partly because it takes me so long to even begin to fathom what he's talking about.

tvod, please please please edit and re-read your posts. It would really help us all.

[Singing Librarian]

I'm not at all convinced that Guardian is right about very much in this game, but he is definitely right that I need to post MORE. I just don't often have that much to say (or sing for that matter, unless you want the game interrupted by a show tune).

Musher333 is beginning to worry me a bit. I don't see Guardian's admission that he's playing by sense of smell to be a big scum tell, and I feel it's at least honest - do we really have that much more to go on than instinct and feelings at this point? Also, I don't see Mr Stoofer as trying to save Guardian. In fact, I don't get the Stoofer bandwagon, which Musher has joined quite wholeheartedly, at all.

Also, this:

That is a strong scum tell, because whenever scum FoS/vote someone, they know that the person they are voting is not scum.)

So how does this differ if you are the scum? Like you said scum voting for people know that the person they vote for isn't scum. Unless you are scum you don't know who the scum are so your reasoning could apply to any vote that is being cast at the moment.

seems like really awkward logic. Scum know who is not scum. Town do not. This is the difference. When town votes then can very rarely truly *know* the alignment of who they are voting for, but they can spot things that lead them to believe that someone is scum. Scum, on the other hand, know (at least) that the person they are voting for is not allied with them, and have to make up reasons which they know are false. Town are genuinely looking for scum, scum are pretending to. What about that don't you get? To me, this looks like it could be an attempt to twist what Mr Stoofer said rather than a misunderstanding.

Not enough for me to change my vote just yet, but enough for me to keep my eye on musher.

[Singing Librarian]

Where did i say sense of smell is a scum tell? i can't remember saying that, what i was saying is that stoofer seems to be defending guardian alot.

Here:

I really hate SlySly's post 235 - it just screams scum at me (except I agree that Guardian's case against hasdgfas was weak). I'd be on for a SlySly lynch if none of the other bandwagons are going anywhere.

NOTE: I will be away from now until Monday 14th April

Hang on, what about this post makes you feel he is scum? A quotation of where about in the post might help.
To me this post is clearly well written and shows out Guardian's (to me) clear scum tell then if you are saying it seems scummish to you is that because he FoS's someone as scum who quite clearly deserves it?

If could use similar reasoning to yours and say that you're defending SlySly, but that's not what seems to be happening here.

* Guardian has an intuition that hasdfgas is scum. He points out what makes him think that, and admits that it is mostly intuition/sense of smell/instinct/whatever.
* SlySly attacks the hasdfgas argument, in a way that essentially ignores Guardian's admission.
* Mr Stoofer says SlySly's post is scummy.
* Musher333 criticises Mr Stoofer for this, because he thinks that SlySly "shows out Guardian's (to me) clear scum tell".

My problems:
- I don't see the clear scum tell
- I don't see Mr Stoofer trying to defend Guardian in a scummy way (I know you don't say that in so many words, but it's implied)

In the name of fairnes:
- I disagree with Guardian's case on hasdfgas. But that's not the point.

[Singing Librarian]

Shin whatever needs to post or be replaced and Singing Librarian needs to post something that show he is actualy a part of this game. (A post of decent content).

Do you know, I don't post very frequently, because I don't like posting when there's nothing for me to say (and quite rightly get criticised for it if I do), but my last 2 posts must surely count as contentful, explaining what I don't like about musher333's play at that stage in the game?

However, in light of the recent posts, I'm going to

unvote

. This doesn't mean that tvod is off the hook, indeed I still believe there's a good possibility that he's scum. I'm partly responding to Guardian:

can we all settle down, take a deep breath, and lynch tvod?

It made me want to do the exact opposite, which is odd, as I'm not normally a fickle person. I settled down, took a deep breath and decided I need to look elsewhere and let time decide whether I really think the vampire is scum or whether I just find vampiric posts irritating.

SlySly's list of unanswered questions is fascinating, but it is true that Stoofer made it quite clear that he wouldn't answer questions from tvod because he didn't understand the latter's posts (which is fair enough - I have trouble with them quite often as well). If there are any questions there which anyone feels need answering, perhaps they could ask them afresh?

Leaving tvod aside for the time bring brings me back to musher333. 23 posts is a heck of a lot more than (for instance) me, but the amount of content in them is extremely low and unhelpful.

After the initial flurry of game speculation, musher333 does quite rightly call tvod on hypcritical voting (his post 6). His posts 7 and 8 are a misunderstanding about one of Hackerhuck's posts, a misunderstanding which could potentially have made lord_hur seem extra-scummy. He then chases tvod to respond to Stoofer's questions (ooh, so the non-responding goes two ways...) and then drops his vote in response to a short post from tvod which does nothing in the way of clearing any of the suspicions. After this, a couple more misunderstandings, then the part I had a problem with.

This doesn't give off strong scum vibes to me, just a 'seems to misunderstand or miss things a lot' vibe.

[Singing Librarian]

Oh my...

So it comes down to a simple question, I suppose. Do we believe Guardian, or not? After reading through the last couple of pages of posts several times, I think not. The claim was unforced and doesn't in any way explain why Guardian acted the way he did. Not in the slightest. His argument seems to be that he acted scummy because he knew he'd come up scummy on investigation - bzuh?

Pretending to be a cop (even if most of us didn't notice) - bad. Easy way for us to lose a townie for no other reason than someone pretending to have got a guilty result on a random player.

Breadcrumbing - meh. The claim was completely unforced, completely unneccessary and impossible to prove. I simply don't believe it.

Unvote

(in case the other one is missed - I did it in the middle of a sentence, which wasn't very mod-friendly of me).

Vote: Guardian

I've still got my eye on tvod and m333, but urgh, yes, this is just awful.

[Singing Librarian]

As far as I could work out when I voted, my vote put Guardian at L-2.

Talk of jesters can get us nowhere, I fear. Yes, it's possible that Guardian is a jester, but I'd put that possibility in distant third place behind lying scum (1) and miller playing badly (2).

Also, tvod, what do you mean by a "Jesus Jester role"? Jesus is completely wrong flavour-wise in this game, so I am intrigued to work out what you mean. You're not bringing up the idea of a jester to distract us from lynching Guardian are you?

[Singing Librarian]

tvod, what, in your opinion *is* a Christ Jester or Jesus Jester ? That's the problem I'm having, and it looks the same for lord_hur. Not the historical likelihood of the role (several thousand years out), but what you think it is.

When I read the overnight postings, I thought 'what!?' to both Guardian's self vote and your quite vote and unvote.

[Singing Librarian]

We just lynched ourselves some scum people!

I don't think we have. tvod unvoted before Guardian bolded his vote. Grrr.

Big question to people.....
Are you suspicious of me for bringing up the Guardian Jester possibility and my handling of the situation?
I am getting some vibes from people they are trying to set me back up as a lynch candidate for these things.

I have never stopped finding you scummy. I unvoted in order to try to clear my mind, as I know that the fact that I sometimes find you difficult to follow may well be contributing to that. But I still have my eye on you.

Geez I thought people knew some thing about Jesus considering he has over 1 billion followers.

Yep, and I'm one of them in that strange thing we call real life, which might be why I wanted to clear up the time discrepancy between the Hebrews in Egypt and the New Testament. Thank you for explaining, though. There were a number of things that you could have meant, so it was good to know.

[Singing Librarian]

I think we can safely assume that he was not a jester, otherwise we would have got an announcement that he'd won.

I'm surprised by who died during the night. I would assume that he was chosen in order to put suspicion on Mr Stoofer.

[Singing Librarian]

I have concluded that neither thevampireofdussledorf or hasdgfas are Guardian's scumbuddies based on yesterday's play. I am not confident that I can pick out who

is

his buddy, though.

I'd agree with the last part of that - *if* Guardian was scum, we don't have much hope of finding any partners, as his play was mostly solitary and random-seeming.

[Singing Librarian]

Oh yeah also SL is scummy looking too!

Any particular reason for that, other than the fact that I'm less verbose than some of the players?

Also, I'm intrigued that Mr Stoofer has detected scummy hints in Musher333's play. I had been feeling the same thing, as can be seen from my previous posts, but hadn't thought about it recently. Bears reexamination, I feel.

I hate the no reveal thing. Obviously, I thought Guardian was scum when we lynched him, but not knowing is horrible. We can analyse people's play based on their interactions with him, but without being sure of his alignment, we're making assumptions. We have to go with '*if* Guardian was scum' or '*if* Guardian was town'

[Singing Librarian]

Psst, HackerHuck, I'm a he, not a she. I can understand the confusion, though. Male library staff are hard to find.

What don't I like about Musher333?

First vote was an admitted OMGUS. Doesn't really matter, as it was in the random stage.

After that, there are several "misunderstandins" which are reading to me as deliberate mistakes designed to make other people look scummy.

There was "He isn't accusing you he is accusing PyroDwarf so i would be careful, your remark could be counted as scummish." (directed at Lord Hur). That could so easily be an attempt to get people to think LH's post was scummy, and it's quickly retracted as soon as the misunderstanding or word twisting is spotted.

Later, it seemed to me that Musher was twisting Mr Stoofer's words - I've posted about that before.

And then again at Mr Stoofer over the reasons for pushing the Guardian bandwagon. I think it's perfectly clear that it was the deceptive faux-cop-breadcrumb that motivated the lynch not the miller claim.

In addition to this, he stated that he thought Guardian was our best bet for a lynch, seemed scummy etc etc, but never placed a vote. I think he could have been trying to seem in line with the town pushing Guardian's wagon without actually voting in the hope that we would all change our minds and go after a new target.

[Singing Librarian]

Vote: Musher333

for the reasons previously explained.

@TVOD - I don't find lord_hur scummy in the slightest and I don't get a particularly strong vibe either way from Mr Stoofer. I do agree that the long discussion between the three of you over claiming, breadcrumbing and millerishness is distracting. We can not know for certain what Guardian's alignment is at the moment, so we need to move on without that bit of confirmation. We all have our opinions on the matter, but we need to continue the search for scum rather than picking over corpses.

[Singing Librarian]

Stoofer, I'm at a loss. Until we have alignment reveals, it's very hard to know how to move forward, as it seems we're unlikely to get any sort of consensus on what's been going on.

It seems that we have few, if any, strong leads and we're seriously floundering.

[Singing Librarian]

Mr Stoofer, I *am* voting at the moment, because I believe I have found a lead. However, others don't seem to agree. I was speaking in general terms.

[Singing Librarian]

Stoofer, you say the only people who are playing to hunt scum are those who have said i look scummy, i am not the only one who people can vote for you know, Stoofer is looking really scummy right now, not sure if i already am voting for him but if not then

Vote: Stoofer

That is not at all true - Stoofer's list included TVOD, who has not, as far as I recall, suggested that you look scummy and is voting for Mr Stoofer. Yet another misunderstanding/word twisting from you.

[Singing Librarian]

I don't see an inability to argue in Musher's posts (or no worse than other people's), I see far too many misunderstanding for them to be misunderstandings. I see a great tendency to twist people's words to make either the poster or another player appear much more suspicious than is warranted, and that strikes me as being scum play.

[Singing Librarian]

Welcome, replacements and thanks for sharing your thoughts on the game.

I don't think lord_hur is scummy - new, yes, but not scummy new. TVOD I still can't get a real handle on, but maybe I should re-read. And SeraphicMirth has found even more that points to the scumminess of musher. Maybe I'm getting slightly tunnel-vision on this, but musher truly does seem like the best lead right now.

[Singing Librarian]

Making cases is definitely good, as long as disagreeing with cases is also allowed. Obviously, I think the strongest case at the moment is the one on Musher33. I still can't make up my mind on TVOD, because I still find his early posts utterly incomprehensible. The case on lord_hur seems mostly based on newbieishness, it seems to me, and considering joining that bandwagon rather than pushing a case seems like a copout to me.

[Singing Librarian]

Lord Hur is not scum. Calling parts of springlullaby's case BS (without any further elaboration) is not helpful, but it's a town overreaction rather than a scum lashing out.

Also, I completely disagree with springlullaby's point that town do not gather information. They most certainly do, and should do so, in order to build a case for or against others - if no questions were asked of other players, games would rarely get very far at all.

[Singing Librarian]

Springlullaby and Lord Hur, I wasn't intending to claim anything, softly or otherwise. If I'm sure somebody is not scum, I will defend them, is all.

Musher continues to be very quiet.

As to Sephic's post i can't remember him saying something as down to the point as that, before this (as i have posted) it seemed like he was buddying with Guardian thinking he was cop but then found out he wasnt, i dont see the point in asking what somebody thought it meant when i replied saying i though this and this, before you asked....

I don't like this, as it is yet another example of him claiming not to have understood something. I thought the reasons Stoofer explained for suspecting and voting for Guardian were perfectly clear and yet it takes how many times before Musher333 suddenly 'understands' it and stops twisting the reasons?

[Singing Librarian]

I suppose it's good that so many people are voting, but pretty weird that we're split five ways with no clear bandwagons emerging.

I'm having a difficult time forming a solid, explicable basis for thoughts on anyone's alignment in this game.

My strongest feeling is the case of Musher333, who I really feel is spending far too much time trying to manipulate the town by pretending to misunderstand people's posts. A re-read of tvod suggests that my early suspicion of him was merited - I think his posting style may have contributed to my feelings of irritation with him, but distance doesn't make the posts seem less scummy now, with the worst action being to bring up lines of thought which distract from hunting for scum.

[Singing Librarian]

What on Earth was the point of your most recent post, Musher? Two unconnected (as far as I can work out) posts linked by a statement that you couldn't find the post that would prove something.

[Singing Librarian]

Interesting claim, but I don't think it helps matters very much at all. It seems fairly plausible to me, but it doesn't really push things in either direction. Doctor seems to be the ultimate scum fakeclaim, but equally doctors are quite a common role and it's entirely possible he is one. I can see no compelling evidence either way, or any vague, non-compelling evidence, for that matter.

[Singing Librarian]

Thanks for posting your thoughts, strife220 - you are so much easier to understand than the guy you've replaced!

I agree that physician is a logical and sensible equivalent for doctor given the theme, but I don't know how much we can allow any musher-related issues to pass by saying that he's had difficulties communication, constructing defence and so on, because then he'd just have a free pass in every game.

[Singing Librarian]

Even from the names that have been offered so far, and taking my own into account, I cannot see any benefit of a name origin claim.

[Singing Librarian]

I think the accuracy of the claim is too good to be ignored. If there's a doc in the game, it must be a physician. If Musher is scum, then scum must have a lot of information about the game that we don't know.

I think that's a rather bizarre statement - if you can see that a doc must surely be a physician in this game, then couldn't anyone, scum or town, without needing any extra information?

I don't think musher's claim makes any difference at all - it does not increase or decrease the suspicion that I had of him before he made it.

[Singing Librarian]

Well, I still think it could be interesting, but since everyone but me and springlullaby is against it and you can't all be scum, I'll drop the subject :/

I'm not against it as such, I just don't think it will help. As far as I can tell, there's absolutely no pattern to the name origins, and scum wouldn't be silly enough to say 'my name is of Hebrew origin'.

[Singing Librarian]

I support a deadline extension, though I'm not really sure if it would help matters very much. From the look of things, we could just spend another week debating musher's claim.

The claim is not what I find scummy about him, it's everything *before* the claim.

[Singing Librarian]

Whoa, that's a lot of posting, and most of it in (as HackerHuck mentions) a seeming attempt to get Musher to reveal information which anyone could find out by reading the first post.

Claiming that he eats pork would hardly clear him, as again that's not something a scum couldn't make up and we have no way to verify it. Someone else could just as easily say "I eat oysters" (or some other food forbidden to Jews. And besides, the food laws were not actually given until after the Exodus from Egypt... Before that, there was no restriction.

My problem is that Musher is the person who stood out head and shoulders above everyone else as likely scum. If he is a doctor-type, we really don't want to lynch him, but I don't seriously see anyone else as being anywhere near as suspicious as him.

For now, I shall

Unvote

If, however, I cannot find anyone that seems more suspicious than him, I shall put my vote back on again.

[Singing Librarian]

Following a re-read, the two that stand out as most likely potential scum are still, for me, musher333 and TVOD. However, TVOD's replacement does not seem anywhere near as scummy, and it is true that lynching the doctor, if that's what musher really is, is a terrible idea.

I can sort of see why people have expressed suspicion of Mr Stoofer from time to time, but can't pin it down. There's a vague sense of unease, but that's not enough to go on.

To reiterate why I find musher suspicious - it's not the claim, in any way. That leaves me neither hot nor cold. What worries me about him is the way that he seemed to twist what people were saying so often, by misunderstanding them in such a way that it made either them or someone else seem unnecessarily scummy. Not once or twice, but several times, which is what makes me think it's not a simple case of misunderstanding. We all misunderstand things, but that often?

So, we're back to

Vote: Musher333

If he really is the doctor then obviously that's a bad thing, but I truly cannot find anyone scummier-seeming than him.

[Singing Librarian]

We can have no idea whether or not the alignment of anyone lynched or nightkilled will be revealed, so can neither assume they will be nor assume they won't. Any decisions made by each individual should be completely independent of the role reveal. I am voting for the person I find scummiest. Although obviously it would be best if his role was revealed upon death, I think it's more important to vote where you see scum than to form a strategy based on presence or absence of reveals.

[Singing Librarian]

Argh. Sorry, rehearsals kept me away last night.

lord_hur speaks the truth. He is my mother, and we both know each other to be Egyptians, not Hebrews (well, you would, wouldn't you?!). I'm not convinced that claiming was a fantastic idea due to the likely impossibility of confirming it at any point, but he had no choice in the circumstances.

I'm not sure whether the two of us do function as 'lovers' (ie one commits suicide if the other dies), as the role pm is not clear on that.

I am impressed by people's rapid reaction to the claim, though. We will certainly be able to examine reactions to the hur wagon and the hur claim tomorrow to good avantage.

[Singing Librarian]

We don't know whether we're in lynch or lose, surely, as we don't know for certain whether any of the deceased are scum. It may be best to assume we are, but we may not be.

Despite re-reading, am failing to find a strong enough case to be sure on. Not least because I was very sure on musher333, and had found many instances of what i believed to be scummy behaviour there.

However, not particularly impressed by the springlullaby quotes hasdfgas has pulled together, with one exception. The comment about musher not pinging the scumdar but still being an ok lynch needs explanation.