Mini 579 - The Plagues of Egypt Mafia - Over

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

HoS:lord_hur

would be a vote but I believe you are on 3 so far.
What is speculation on roles at this time going to do to help town?
Also

Fos:PyroDwarf

for more speculation.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Not that it does much damage either way but at this stage of the game it has no use. I have my own private thoughts about these things especialy the food but it is of no benifit to speculate on these things yet.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

FoS:Mr Stoofer

for trying to add more weight to an already suspicion laden person. Not that there is anything wrong with that if the suspicion is merited but I am enjoying HoSsing and FoSsing at the moment in fact more so than voting.
Perhaps instead of a random voting stage there could be a random HoS 'n' FoS stage.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Careful or that might turn into a HoS.
Obviously my quirky logic outshines my humour.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

@lord_hur
Speculating on roles even if there is no obvious disadvantage to town or obvious advantage to scum I have to see as slightly scummy.

I think I know what you're refering to and there's a good explanation, but I guess I can't give it without getting more FoS... this IS public info though.

If you are town and have an explanation that wont hurt town or help scum then perhaps you should explain. If not your explanation for not explaining is unsatisfactory.

@Mr Stoofer
I deemed the suspicion that was already on lord_hur to be sufficent for his action
I also viewed your overburdening of him with more suspicion suspicious

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

About what you said to Mr Stoofer though... Please tell me what gives you the *exclusive* right to questioning people ?

Questioning people for good reasons is an eminently pro-town attitude and should not be denied to anyone.

On the other hand, if you think someone's accusation is undue, it is perfectly fair game to question it. But it is not what you said.

If you look at the third quote I didn't really see it as a question, more 3 quotes of yours (a large body of evidence) and an accusation. To me it was trying to push something a bit far. I think most were happy to leave this speculating business alone but Stoofer wanted to bring it to the forefront again and has it help us any more since then?

What on earth do you mean "overburdening of him"? What am I supposed to do if I see a player who is behaving suspiciously? Keep quiet about it. What is more, nobody had made the point which I had made so it would have been anti-Town for me not to have mentioned it.

I ask you again: tell me - yes or no - was my suspicion merited?

Yes and No, I viewed the timing of the post its lay out and tone all to decide if I found it suspicious. Suspicion can be merited but the person placing that suspicion can also be suspicious.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Oh I forgot the 3rd quote well here it is;

The following quotes make me think that lord_hur knows more about this setup than the rest of us (or at least: more than me).

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

It had already been pointed out and Stoofer realy added nothing new, he just seemed to put more weight of the same meterial of what was already there.

FoS:Mr Stoofer for trying to add more weight to an already suspicion laden person. Not that there is anything wrong with that if the suspicion is merited

Well I can only view if it is merited by my standards, likewise Mr Stoofer can do only the same. It was a sort of question is it merited or not... I left this rather ambigious as I wished to see Mr Stoofers reaction, surely he would be the one to know as he made the post if there was merit in it or not.

His reactions have been rather more focused on asking me if I find it merited or not. Three times I believe. I find it strange he needed me to coment on this first before he could say for himself he believed it merited.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

He was basically asking where I got the informations, because explaining it was the only way I could defend myself. I see what you're trying to say though. But because *you* analyzed something doesn't mean one can't analyze the same thing, especially if the person brings up new points, which Mr Stoofer did (the fact that I might know more than him).

I dont really see that as bringing up a new point (not points) that you might know more than him, as he explains below that he had read the applicable meterial, so thus "you might know more than me" is throwing suspicion on you as being scum.
I also don't understand your conclusion of how he was asking you where you got your information from.

The following quotes make me think that lord_hur knows more about this setup than the rest of us (or at least: more than me).

If it is given as MR Stoofer has said he read the information then the "at least: more than me" part is I imagine to be taken as "I dont know things I am unimformed majority aka town"

I read the opening post. But I saw no warrant for a resurrection role, or a poisoner. Nor for your assumption that we are going to have a different plague every night.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

I FoSed pyrodwarf for it page one.
Oh and that gives me another great idea

FoS and HoS:Musher333 & Singing Librarian

for trying to hush discussion.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Yeah I agree with those votes well merited if you be asking me.

I have not yet actualy cast any votes but instead gone on FoSsing.
Four I do believe. And all of these are merited but I will settle down and let things return to some sort of normality. So I have a list in rough order of who I find suspicious for reasons/FoSes already stated but I will quickly state this again.

lord_hur: way to much talk about possible roles early in the game, this seems to be something scum like to talk about and regardless of if it helps scum or not or harms town or not is still suspicious.

Mr Stoofer: adding to the lord_hur suspicion loading in a manner I found slightly disagreeable

Singing Librarian: making idle chatter that was factuly wrong, gives me the impression of posting out of need not desire, need to appear active in the game.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

My first suspicion was on lord_hur but he was on three votres at the time so instead had to give him a FoS, and from there well it kinda got a bit out of control.
I was also wondering how long I could get away with FoSing people for anything I saw suspicious before becoming suspicious myself. I dont agree with not allowing them to respond to it. If they disagree that what they had done was not worthy of a FoS then they were very much open to say so. Infact Musher333 did and for that courage in standing up to a FoS, I am no longer suspicious of him (it was a weak FoS anyway).

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Ok I am happy with a vote on now

Vote:lord_hur

After watching his reactions to things I am happy to do this, asking for Prods and others thoughts seems to me like wanting to get out of the spotlight.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

My point of over FoSing was to see reactions and I did find it interesting. Yes this makes me look scummy and I knew it was going to happen but was too interested in how it would go down. A FoS is a sort of short case, you did this I find it suspisious, so anyone who gets one knows the reason why they are being thought of as suspicious and can therefore arguee against it or not. I find it very interesting that in most games a FoS is given and people generaly except it and don't argue. Anyways my second suspect at the moment is Mr Stoofer, whom hasn't posted in a while I do believe. And I think somewhere back in the thread there was a question for him.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

What bandwagon is this. I am the only one to have a vote on lord_hur at the moment as everyone else unvoted, how is this a band wagon. I'm not super convinced he is scum but my best lead so far so I see no harm in having my vote there for the meanwhile. You are right about firing out suspicion but it was by no means to see if anything stuck but to gage reactions as I have explained and I have admited that some of them were weak. I have three main suspects listed lord_hur, Mr Stoofer and Singing Librarian so that is 3 out of the five people I FoSed. You may think my play unconventional but it has helped me get a decent suspect list to focus my attention on.
I believe I am the one being bandwagoned at the moment at three votes and this post from you. Now Q & A time.
I believe you asked this three times....

I ask you again: tell me - yes or no - was my suspicion merited?

Which I answered eventualy

Yes and No, I viewed the timing of the post its lay out and tone all to decide if I found it suspicious. Suspicion can be merited but the person placing that suspicion can also be suspicious.

Now that post of yours in particular I made some coments on which you seem to have not bothered to deem worth talking about. So I will have to re do this.

The following quotes make me think that lord_hur knows more about this setup than the rest of us (or at least: more than me).

Can you please explain what you ment by this comment as both I and lord_hur have interpreted it and perhaps it would be nice to get the view of the author.

Tags corrected -Mod

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

@Guardian why do you

Hope

I am scum?
Also what is your FoS on slysly for I don't believe he has posted in this game yet.

@Musher I have explained my FoSing and each had a reson behind it which I stated at the time so to say with no apparent reason is a oversight on your behalf.
HA and I like the way you threaten a FoS.

@Mr Stoofer yes and no is my answer I have told you why I found it suspicious:

I deemed the suspicion that was already on lord_hur to be sufficent for his action
I also viewed your overburdening of him with more suspicion suspicious

If you look at the third quote I didn't really see it as a question, more 3 quotes of yours (a large body of evidence) and an accusation. To me it was trying to push something a bit far. I think most were happy to leave this speculating business alone but Stoofer wanted to bring it to the forefront again and has it help us any more since then?

I dont really see that as bringing up a new point (not points) that you might know more than him, as he explains below that he had read the applicable meterial, so thus "you might know more than me" is throwing suspicion on you as being scum.
I also don't understand your conclusion of how he was asking you where you got your information from.

If it is given as MR Stoofer has said he read the information then the "at least: more than me" part is I imagine to be taken as "I dont know things I am unimformed majority aka town"

So yes lord_hur was to be thought of as mildly suspicious and had been told about the speculation and this point was dying down then you post one line implying lord_hur is scum and you are town and use three quotes of his.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Mr Stoofer why do you wish to have on record you want to lynch someone who has not posted yet in this game?
I appologize others can not make sense of me but is that reason to think I am scum. Either I have done something obviously scummy or I am just hard to understand?
Ignoring a player is ok if you have a very certain read on them as scum. Now your most recent post Mr Stofer has some obvious frailties in it.....

The point about lord_hur seeming to have more information was one which no-one had made before I did. Whether it was right or wrong it was clearly a good point to make.

It wasn't really a good point at all as here it is:

The following quotes make me think that lord_hur knows more about this setup than the rest of us (or at least: more than me).

And here is Mr Stoofers comment about it:

What I meant was this: Scum inevitabley know more about the game than the Town. They are the informed minority. And they often cannot stop themselves from showing how clever they are by successfully "guessing" aspects of the setup.

So from this and what I have said earlier all this is saying is:
"he is scum and I am town"
Thus I think it not a good "Point" in fact it was not a point at all but a crafty accusation.

I have asked thevampireofdussledorf to explain why I merited a FOS, and whether he thought my point was a good one or not, but his responses have been incomprehensible.

Ok I can see why you may have become a little frustrated

FoS:Mr Stoofer for trying to add more weight to an already suspicion laden person. Not that there is anything wrong with that if the suspicion is merited

Ok so I did deem lord_hur to be suspicious but that does in no way mean I cant be suspicious of someone who also finds lord_hur suspicious. And I did find the way in which and the timing in which Mr Stoofer joined in on the lord_hur discusion suspicious. The comment about "if the suspicion is merited" was to see what sort of reaction I would get from Mr Stoofer, as a townie they would certainly believe that the suspicion was merited but as scum they would know it was not so here are the reactions from Mr Stoofer:

You gave lord_hur a "HoS" back in post 19, so you obviously think he is suspicious, but when I express suspicion of him, that earns me a "FoS".

Also, why is my suspicion not merited?

Please answer my question.

What on earth do you mean "overburdening of him"? What am I supposed to do if I see a player who is behaving suspiciously? Keep quiet about it. What is more, nobody had made the point which I had made so it would have been anti-Town for me not to have mentioned it.

I ask you again: tell me - yes or no - was my suspicion merited?

So to me it seems you were very much concerned about if your suspicion was seen as merited or not when in fact I would believe you to be the only person to know if it was or not, to the rest of us it is just perception.

If you have certain things you do not understand please ask me and I will try and make them clearer.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

It was just an unconventional start and you might have noticed, (or at least I believe) I am settling down to a more refined style of play. I also have comments and questions for others in this game which would be hopefuly seen as active scum hunting. I have in no way settled on who I think is scum at this stage (unlike some of you seem to have done) and wonder why some are so hasty to come to a judgement of others. Anyways those voting me is it for something in particular that I have done or is it "style", "feeling" or some other of these weak reasons?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

@Mr Stoofer do you wish to comment on my post or would you rather ignore it?
There is one question which I think is not too hard for you to answer:

Mr Stoofer why do you wish to have on record you want to lynch someone who has not posted yet in this game?

@Everyone I have made a few interesting points about Mr Stoofer who does not appear to be interested in replying, but perhaps others might wish to think and post about what I have said.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

I have already explained that Mr Stoofers comment re lord_hur was not adding anything new to the discussion and my interpretation (aided by Mr Stoofer) shows this was a mere "I think you are scum and I am town".

Do people understand this?

If somebody adds to a bandwagon in a way you find suspicious is it then reasonable to find them suspicious also?

This is why I FoSed Mr Stoofer.

I guess my explanation for the comment "if it is merited" I have not explained too well. So I will try to give it plainly.

If you are town and add to a bandwagon then you obviously believe your suspicion is merited because you do not know if that person is scum or town.
If you are scum then you have to add suspicion when it

seems

merited.

Is this clear to people?

So from what I have gathered Mr Stoofer added a rather pointless comment to the anti lord_hur movement and then was overly interested in if his suspicions seemed merited in my eyes.

Is this clear enough for people to understand?

Now lord_hur has gone down in my suspicion list so

unvote:lord_hur

Now I dont hold what I think to be evidence enough to say Mr Stoofer is scum but I am suspicious of him and if he is scum I see a link between him and Singing Librarian.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Now I hope people are begining to understand me a little better but if not please speak up as I am more than happy to answer questions and there is no need to just blatantly ignore me........(Mr Stoofer).

Do people understand my "if it is merited" comment?

Also I ask again why are people voting for me at this stage beyond the "you are the most scummy looking" or "I don't like your style"?

I generally play by focusing on a few people at a time and since I mentioned Singing Librarian earlier then a few things stand out at me as a bit scummy.

I think we need to move on, though it is interesting that other early bits of speculation on the setup (e.g. PyroDwarf's) went unmentioned.

Here I find it odd he states an incorect fact, maybe not paying attention to the game or perhaps needing to throw some created suspicion somewhere. Also I find it a bit strange saying lets move on from this speculation while at the same time casualy pointing out someone who was also speculating. I dont really understand the need to point this out (at least not in a post asking to move away from speculation discussion).

thevampireofdusseldorf, I wasn't trying to hush discussion. it seemed that particular thread of thought had reached the end of any usefulness, and moving on to something else would help a heck of a lot more.

This is the reply to my FoS. Ok so SL wished to change the discussion topic. If you wanted discussion to move away from that topic then I would assume you wouldn't want people to comment about PyroDwarf so thus it was pointless posting. As with Mr Stoofer pointless posting I believe to be perhaps a very good scum tell if you can correctly spot it. A scum has to post but he is posting for very different reasons than town, thus he will frequently post to seem active and bring up points which in fact have no benifit to town at all.

Post 132

TVOD is the one player where postings stand out as suspicious to me. Others have not posted enough to allow me to form an opinion either way and the remainder read as pro-town - so far, at least.

So it seems I am the only possible scum to you. It would be in your best interests (perhaps) and towns to let day one progress further so you can get opinions on other players.
I do find it a bit odd you make a full player analysis when you obviously dont have any opinion on many players when it comes to scum or town except me. Is this posting out of need not desire?
They seem to be mainly plain observations of a few things each player has done.
I'm strongly now getting the feeling of a post thats first aim is to push a bandwagon on myself and secondly to appear as if you are doing some contribution to the town without saying a lot. I may be wrong on this but it is just the feeling I get when reading that post.

Also I just looked at Musher333 and besides quoting he has only ever posted one or two sentences per post. So twelve post but not a great deal of contribution.

(Note: I previewed this three times and that is enough for me to be happy with it) heh once more!

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

You are wrong. Everyone, including SlySly who is currently attacking Mr Stoofer, thinks that he actually added to the discussion (but not necessarily in a town way, according to SlySly).

The one line of his did not bring up any new points at the time of its posting but if you see this as a valid point:

if the person brings up new points, which Mr Stoofer did (the fact that I might know more than him).

Then you are right. But I do not see it as any point at all as all it means is "You might be scum because you might know more than me." Informed majority/uninformed minority. And after I asked Mr Stoofers explanation of the post (given on page 4):

What I meant was this: Scum inevitabley know more about the game than the Town. They are the informed minority. And they often cannot stop themselves from showing how clever they are by successfully "guessing" aspects of the setup. As JEEP said in the wiki:

we have a point made. But alas this to me is something kinda obvious and is why people don't speculate about the game set up and why those that do are told not to and are found suspicious.
Also I dont give Mr Stoofers credit in adding to discussion (in an active scum hunting manner) apart from the fact of his post being there and others commenting about it.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

ebwop: Informed minority/uninformed majority

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

@Mr Stoofer what was your brand spanking new point you raised?
That Hur could be scum because he was speculating about the set up of the game?
Forgive me if I have this wrong but I think a few people had mentioned that on the first page.

I've already said I don't like his style, so I really ought to go into more detail.
***Post 31 - FoSes Mr Stoofer for "trying to add more weight to an already suspicion laden person. Not that there is anything wrong with that" - if there's nothing wrong with it, there's nothing to FoS, surely, and pointing out things that are suspicious is good town play, worthy of (if there is such a thing) an anti-FoS if anything.

Read this as you wish, I have explained my reasons behind "if it is merited".

***Post 39 - "I also viewed your overburdening of him with more suspicion suspicious" makes no sense. If something is suspicious, it should be pointed out, and not necessarily just once. If voicing a suspicion of someone who has already had suspicion voiced about them was suspicious, we'd never have any discussion.

I agree that merely repeating points someone else has made is sometimes a scum tell

This is what I believe Mr Stoofer was doing.

If somebody adds to a bandwagon in a way you find suspicious is it then reasonable to find them suspicious also?

***Post 51 - appears to find Mr Stoofer even more suspicious for repeating a question which tvod had not answered. (i.e. does tvod view Mr S's suspicion of lord_h as merited?). One thing you can almost guarantee in this game is that if you do not answer a question, it will get repeated either by the original questioner or someone else, so that shouldn't be surprising. Also, "I find it strange he needed me to coment on this first before he could say for himself he believed it merited." What? No, Mr Stoofer wanted a response. It was quite evident that he already believed the suspicion was merited, or he wouldn't have voiced it. What it looks like he wanted to know was whether tvod thought he was throwing out baseless accusations or jumping on a pointless bandwagon. It was evident to me that right or wrong, Mr Stoofer believed his suspicions had a basis in reality.

Ok so this comment got on the nerve of Mr Stoofer and a few others no doubt but I threw it in to see what sort of reaction I would get. Let me ask a question here, If you were scum and threw some suspicion on someone you would I expect want people to believe it was justified. If you were town and doing the same thing would you perhaps be less concerned about it appearing to have merit in the perception of others and say more concerned about the actual evidence of the suspicion?

***Post 63 - Twists my hope to move discussion on to something fruitful into an attempt to stop it completely. Ditto for Musher333, who explains his reasons better than I did.

Yeah I'll give you this one.

***Post 83 - Among the reasons for his vote on lord_hur is "asking for prods". Prods can only benefit town, not scum, as more involvement in the game means more information for said town and a better chance for discussion, debate and accurate lynching.

Ok I 'll give you this one too

***Post 99 - Certainly seems to be suspecting Mr Stoofer more than lord_hur, even though he's still voting for lord_hur. Talks without actually answering any of the questions pointed his way.

I'm just going over an issue I have with one of Mr Stoofers posts, funnily enough the one I FoSed him for. I believe it is still in conversation right now. And what questions "pointed" my way did I not answer?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Ok for those that believe Mr Stoofer raised some great new point about lord_hur in this qutoe please try and explain it to me:

The following quotes make me think that lord_hur knows more about this setup than the rest of us (or at least: more than me).

By Mr Stoofers own quote:

What I meant was this: Scum inevitabley know more about the game than the Town. They are the informed minority. And they often cannot stop themselves from showing how clever they are by successfully "guessing" aspects of the setup. As JEEP said in the wiki:

So my analysis with the help of Mr Stoofer of the comment goes:
"me think that lord_hur knows more about this setup"="me think lord_hur scum"
"at least: more than me"="me think me town"

Anyway

Vote:Mr Stoofer

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

That I believe is a Mod Tell to have more information than anyone else.

Someone appearing to have more information than you is the same as someone appearing to be in the informed minority which is the same as someone appearing scummy.
Why was it a new point that lord_hur was scummy?
What is of more pointitude is what makes him appear to have more information, appear to be in the informed minority; appear to be scummy?

Thus because lord_hur was speculating about the role set up you thought him to have more information.
Not you thought him to have more information that is why I find him scummy.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

@ Singing Librarian: I dont believe that the question has any point in answering in a yes or no manner. Yes Mr Stoofer had merit in being suspicious of lord_hur but no I dont think he was justified in posting it in the manner he did.

The suggestion is that Mr Stoofer pointed out that lord_hur seemed to have more information about the set-up in general than was public knowledge

This suggestion is as good as saying he is in the informed minority or scum. Also this suggestion has no merit unless there is evidence that the person has more information, and this evidence that he had more information was because he was speculating. Mr Stoofer has admited that part. So why sould I believe that saying he appears to have more information to be adding a new point. Most reasonable players would know that scum like to speculate about game set ups because they have more information.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Ok I will drop my tow points from further discussion about Mr Stoofer as people find it hard to understand them when I try and explain things.

I dont think Mr Stoofer made any constructive helpful new point in post 30.
I have tried to explain why: If you dont understand too bad.

I belive Mr Stoofers reaction to my comment "if it is merited is" shows some scumminess.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Posts 32, 35, 40 all asking me if I found his suspicions merited or not.
Obviously suspicion was

seen

to be merited to be put on lord_hur but I did not like the way Mr_Stoofer did it. Thus if Mr Stoofer was scum he would have thought it a good time to throw some suspicion there while it appeared to be justifiable. So I added this comment for a reaction:

Not that there is anything wrong with that if the suspicion is merited

Basicly this is scum bait as I expected scum to react a little stronger than town to an insinuation that there accusation appeared not merited. So that is what I mean about his reaction, asking me if I viewed it as merited or not.
Would town react this way asking 3 times if someone thought there accusations merited or not. They might bring it up perhaps once or state why they thought lord_hur deserved suspicion. Anyways in not having the knowledge of Mr Stoofers alignment at this stage I am ot to sure if his reactions is baffled townie or startled scum. I am leaning on scum but it was only a means used by me to try and get a better read on some one not the key point of a case.
In fear of losing some possible sense of semblance I wil stop there and hit preview.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

@Mr Stoofer why do you think I am hurting town.........please explain this, I realize I may have been a bit confusing early on but I am trying to make myself clearer now.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

There are some extreme examples where if a person hurts the town badly enough, and is likely to do so again, then no matter what his alignment, it's best to just lynch him off right away, for the good of the town. But for the most part, I'm more interested in pressuring a person who's hurting the town to stop doing so, and only lynching him as a last resort if he absolutly refuses to change.

Well considering this is your defence I find you fall short of this mark.
Unless you can explain how I have hurt the town badly enough then you fail.
I also did not see you pressuring me but rather you decided to ignore me.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

lord_hur why are you supporting Mr Stoofer?
If he wishes to just lynch someone for being anti town without actually hunting for scum then that is plain ole scummy behaviour to me.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

I happily admit some of my early FoSes were rather flippant and may have come across as a little bit scummish but that was an early game style thing I explained. Is my early play and different from lord_hurs early speculation?
From Post 204 you seem to have done a) with lord_hur and b) with me. And I dont believe any is more vote worthy. Rather in context either can be worthy of a vote.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Re-read post 200 :

- in part 2, I say I agree with his reasoning, NOT his conclusions (not now, not later, unless you go lurking for a long time or your posts' quality decrease in a substancial way).

- in part 1, I say this should only be used as a last resort. If Mr Stoofer tried to use it right now to get you lynched, I'd be on his back like a rabid dog. At the moment though, he's not trying to actively influence people, he is just answering questions.

respond.

Guardian I would like you to quote and respond to post 212?

Sorry I dont get what you are saying.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

You ask a lot of me kind sir and I would be happy to help.
My stance on Mr Stoofer is he seems to be the most likely scum. Those supporting his arguments or his position I will find slightly scummy.
lord_hurs post is a bit wierd in that he says I support his theory but not his application. This is a strange way of defending someone. Also it gives lord_hur an excuse not to be on the back of Mr Stoofer.
Post 203 has only made me more suspicious of lord_hurs behaviour towards Mr Stoofer.

So Mr Stoofer has had a big go at me and said I should die regardless of alignment
places a very weak vote on hgsfsdds (or whatever his name)
and then when question about his desire to have me dead regardless of alignment he defends this position with some link to some debate which I dont think supports his position too well
(also I found the other link to the wiki was similar to Mr Stoofers position but did not clear him)
now he says I think tVoD is scum because while still having a vote on hasddgaf for a stupid reason.

I find myself asking this question yet agian What is the possibility he is a Jester?
I have no idea how good a player he is but from what I have seen he does not appear to be that worried about doing stupid things.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

English is my first language, I think it is hard to understand as I write train of thought sometimes and dont go back and edit my posts I am also sick with glandular fever so I am very tired and at times don't put super energy into my posts to present them all nice and well spoken.


My observation about lord_hur is this...
He defends the theory of lynching anti town players but does not agree with Mr Stoofers application of this theory towards me. SO I think I got the defending him slightly wrong as it was not a direct defence but more a I support his Theory.

I am of the impression that supporting the theory is irrelavent as if it is not used in the correct situation then it is pointless to say yeah ok thats a good theory (supporting someone) but it is not the right application in this case (oh well).

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

No posting oh well.....

mod

are some prods in order yet?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

@Mr Stoofer when you voted for hasdgfas you also said I have to die. Doesn't a vote on someone else run counter to your wish to have me dead?
Or was it just a tempory vote?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Ok, I dont deserve to live thank you kind sir but by your explanation you were happy to let me live another day if someone else who (you deem) deserves also not to live would be easier to lynch?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Sorry I seem to have fallen behind in this game a little so on what has followed since my last content post here are my thoughts.

Guardian is looking like lynch bait with comments like:

I'm playing by sense of smell at this point. I feel like this is going to come back and bite me in the but later, and people are gonna be like "well if you were really town why weren't you trying so hard to be really townie and good and stuff?" and I don't have a good answer for that.

I agree with slyslys post 235.

236 WTF?

239 Mr Stoofer is now defending Gaurdian and trying to incriminate SlySly. The line of well all we got day one is hunches is BS to me. You can work hard to try and get good reads and find information to come to a reasoned opinion abut who might be scum. But both Gaurdian and Mr Stoofer seem to be very flippant about who they lynch and for what reason. I can only see this as irresponsible and not very pro town at all.

241 Musher333 is defending SlySly and incriminating Mr Stoofer

246 WTF yet again

So we have only really slysly attacking gaurdian and all of a sudden we get people suspicious of slysly for doing this even though they agree that guardian had a weak case against hasfadgs.

I am not liking Guardian at the moment and still not liking Mr Stoofer.
My prefered lynched would be Mr Stoofer but I would not shed a tear over Gaurdian.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

You should be asking Herr Guardian that not me.
How would I know what strange planis going on inside that head, but both your comments are good observations.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Also I belive I asked Mr Stoofer how my one vote on lord_hur was a bandwagon, while I was being bandwagoned at the time, Mr Stoofer ignored this question and slysly asked this again.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

It is very difficult to lynch Scum on Day 1. The best you can do is to do the best you can. But in the vast majority of games the Town ends up lynching Town on Day 1. That's just the way it is. I don't want to spend forever on Day 1 hoping that something concrete will turn up -- because it just won't. [And that sort of game is sooooo boring.] You have to try to read between the lines of the other player's posts and get a feeling for who might be genuine and honest (Town) and who is not being honest (Scum).

Sounds like a decent statement but from my very brief experience scum can be very genuine and honest and town can be dishonest. I completely agree that all we can do is our best but by my standards playing by sense of smell is not the best way to go about things, nor is trying to lynching someone who is hard to understand (anti-town) when minimal effort has been put into trying to find scum.
Also where did hasfgad stand on your list when you voted for him and where does he stand now?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Ok you have a point about your claim of me being scum but I find it strange that you had to throw in the even if I wasn't scum I should die anyways. Sometimes you should not let emotions like hate and anger cloud your judgement.
I doubt I could do anything to try and make you reconsider your opinion of me but oh well you are only one vote so I won't try too hard there. If you feel there is something I have not properly answered feel free to ask and I will do my best to answer it.
At least if I survive this day then my deemed scumminess in your eyes might give me the pleasure of staying around day two.
If you are town then I think you might like to ease up in your VoD hating thing and try and help us win.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

No I ment it and I presume you are trying to take it out of context here.
You claimed I was scum first before adding the "I should die regardles of alignment" comment. I conceded you a point on that, is that terribly wrong?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Is it light now not smell you are playing by Guardian?
And PyroDwarf how does being sarcastic make me scum.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

@Guardian what light is this that has made you believe I am scum, please explain this to me?

I believe slysly has a decent point about Mr Stoofers reluctance to answer questions, and about both Guardian and Mr Stoofers seemingly flimsy cases especialy on slysly when he was not here.

I find both Guardian and Mr Stoofer my top two suspects at the moment.

Singing Librarian is getiing on my nerves too with lack of contribution.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Another lynch bait comment above

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Basicly saying I am playing badly giving no reasons for this and making cases with no real reason behind them or joining bandwagons with no reasons, no real attempt to seem like he is town.
Guardian is aware he is playing badly and instead of waitig for criticizem he seems to be his self critic.
Kinda giving me the impression he is not too worried about attracking suspicion, and in some ways trying to attracted it.

So for the possibility he could be some sort of "Christ" Jester I am happier on my vote of Mr Stoofer.
Shin whatever needs to post or be replaced and Singing Librarian needs to post something that show he is actualy a part of this game. (A post of decent content).

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

To ignore a question when it is written in a completely comprehensible manner is scummy. Doing it under the guise of "ignoring me" is no less scummy. If you had any sense you would put this "stand" of yours against me behind you and actualy see I am not as incomprehensible as you might think.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

I am seriously wondering what guardian would have to gain if scum by claiming miller. Admitedly Guardian has playede a wierd game and I would dread the day I was given a miller role to play. But In a set up when there is not certainty we have a cop I can't understand drawing so much attention to yourself and trying to insinuate cop. Esentialy Guardians play style led to suspicion and this claim which is always going to be difficult and unhelpful to town.
Ima still on the

very likely jester

side of things and urge no one to hammer.
actualy putting that miller thing in code is dubious to the max as it shows serious forward planning about having to claim in the near future. What better cliam to get lynched than miller, even a scum claim is less likely to get you lynched than miller.
I think guardian played towards a planned claim that I am finding hard to believe but I think of it as less likely to come from scum than from a

Jester

.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

I realize it seems very tempting and good to lynch me right now, but that won't result in dead scum.

I think Guardian wants to be lynched, hence my comments lynch bait. Since then Guardian has done wonders to try and get himself lynched. I also suggested that he could be some sort of Jesus Jester role. I believe he thought I was catching on to him and has tried to finishes his life off before anyone else could cotton on.

Please dont Lynch Guardian today we have plenty of other decent suspects and I am very happy he is a Jester.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Somebody who wins when they are lynched. That is about all I know, check the wiki roles section. If a more knowledgable player can give more info about the role please do.
I had the question of do they win if they are lynched day two and how do they lose?
Also is it of any value to keep them around as they appear to be of no use to the town or scum, and is the only value of keeping a suspected Jester around to stop them achieving their win condition?
And lastly is it a possible stratergy of mafia to try and have people believ you to be a jester so that you are not lynched?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Where does the jester losing if lynched day one come from?
If this is the general rule then I would be up for a guardian lynch. If miller scum or jester it is best to get rid of all those possibilities now.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Yes of course they would not claim jester but they would try their best to get lynched with another claim, and I can think of no better claim than miller. The only thing that bothers me (if Mr Stoofer you are correct about lossing if lynched day one) is that this claim should not have been done day one but saved untill tommorow. Perhaps that was the intention but Guardian thought he might scrape through today.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Ok so there is no rule but sometimes it excludes the first day. Are there any other examples of this occuring. If it is often, sometimes, rarely or whatever I want to know. And I am not sure If I believe him to be Jester should I want to lynch him and give him the win just to be rid of him?
Oh what a pickle!

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Ok so I thought that my mention of a Jester might attract some attention with the view of trying to save guardian but if you look back I have been the one pointing out his bad play and lynch bait comments the most. I only wanted to check up about that sort of role to decide what would be the right thing to do.
My feelings are that scum has nothing much to gain by claiming miller and the only thing if Guardian is scum would be it weould make it a lot easier for his partners to bus him. I am actuly thinking it more likely that he is a miller than scum. I am happy to have him lynched today but I am realy not sure what this will reveal.
So I dont mind a L-1 vote on him now.

unvote

vote:Guardian

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

unvote

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

hahaha wtf was that self hammer pitty you messed up your tags

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

does anyone believe me we have a jester?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

You have already proven yourself untrustworthy and I dont like the way in which you have played this miller role. You previously mention people not to vote for you because you are not a jester but you feel happy to self hammer.

I'm fairly sure I'm at lynch -2.

I also urge no one to vote me, but not for fear I'm a jester.

Whatever you may fear, I'm not a jester.

That was egging someone to vote for you so you could self hammer.
A miller only has to worry about being investigated and as of yet I have no reason to believe there to be a cop in this game. Your tactic of claiming so early is seriously bad if you are miller. You are a pro town role with only a minor issue. To cause all this controversy about it reeks of wanting to get lynched.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

I have a good feeling Guardian is a Jester I will admit a Jesus Jester is not quite on the time frame of reference for this game. If anyone wishes to hammer to find out the truth it is there but I am not going to be voting for Guardian any time soon.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

I mentioned earlier about Guardian being some christ jester role, as it was sort of in the ball park of the whole biblical thing but realise that was a little later than mosses.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Big

question to people.....
Are you suspicious of me for bringing up the Guardian Jester possibility and my handling of the situation?
I am getting some vibes from people they are trying to set me back up as a lynch candidate for these things.

I mention the Jesus/Jester role as anyone with any ideas about Christianity will be aware that is was Gods will to have his son (Christ) die. This is totaly compatible with a Jester role.
Geez I thought people knew some thing about Jesus considering he has over 1 billion followers.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Where is it written Jesters can not self vote.
And if that is so why would Guardians self vote be more indicitive of scum than say a miller?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

I am completely lost on this situation right now. If anyone agrees that a jester is not likely for Guardian and he is either a miller or scum then sure go for the hammer. But I must say Guardian your play if miller has been shit! If you are miller you dont play by drawing attention to yourself and wtf was all those snap posts about. Your best play is to try and draw the scums nk. Perhaps that was the idea by the playing cop early on. Actualy I think it very likely Guardian could in fact be a miller. I read recently a certain mod likes millers a lot.
Meh lynch him or not I am happy either way.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Well all things considered about this very annoying Guardian situation I would be happy for a stoofer lynching instead.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Somehow I get the feeling we just lynched a Miller. Well at least it is an end to a long day one.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

It is a valid miller stratergy to act like a cop to get scum to nk you. In fact this is the best miller stratergy to try and get nkilled. But considering we had two previuos no reveals on deaths Guardian could have pulled this stunt to keep us all in the dark. I am going to lean more on the miller side of things than scum at this stage.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Well slysly was toewn Mr Stoofer looks like a good lynch for today I was happier to lynch him yesterday and still happy to lynch him today.

Vote:Mr Stoofer

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Why do you not like it I made it very clear my suspicions on my stoofer day one and Guardian was a side distraction so now that that is finished why would it be odd for me to push Mr Stoofer. I was slightly worried slysly could be scum but that has also been taken care of so..would you like to ask me are say something about the matter again HackerHuck?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Mr Stoofer are you saying I am tonw? Or are you saying if guardian is scum I am town. Or are you saying Guardian is scum...wtf are you saying?
Oh yeah also SL is scummy looking too!

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

When I got some time and energy sure will do sir!

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

It only makes sense as scum to claim/hint at cop and then claim miller otherwise it has no purpose unless he was gonna claim cop to give up a mafia buddy but he did it with slysly a townie. It was guardians stratergy to claim miller and this is clearly shown by his m.i.l.l.e.r post. Sorry I dont see him as scum peoples.
Can we actualy move on from this and lynch us some propper scum.

Question to all what would scum gain by trying to make us believe Guardian scum if he is town?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Oh I am not cop and am mildyly suspicious about lord hurs post a couple back looks to me like serious role fishing there.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Sorry Stoofer I dont agree with your hardline conclusions.
Reason to pretend cop as pro town role is if you are a Miller.
For someone who likes to give links to prove your point im sure you will be able to find the how to play miller topic mentioning this.

Why are you selective in which links you use to prove points but blatantly ignore other known ones that go against your point.

Meh my list from day one is still good to me for scum Stoofer Singing and Hur.
Either one I would support a lynch on.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

I already asked a question related to this to Mr Stoofer, who did not answer it.

I do not understand at all what would be the point for scum to claim cop, as it would be about the best way to give him away to the real cop.

Could someone could clear up this contradiction ? Because that's the main reason I believe Guardian on his miller claim (and it seems I'm about the only one).

I will let others gather what they will from this passage.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

sorry bout the quotes I am a little rusty. As for Mr Stoofer I can find it at the moment but remember reading this somewhere. The guts of it was the best idea (which I agree with) of how to play miller is to get scum thinking you are a power role and thus being the obvious choice for the nk. Scums biggest fear is a cop thus miller stratergy is to put cop tells out there to get nk by scum and thus not bother town.

Agree or dissagree........?
I see the above as pretty sound logic of how to play a Miller role but given guardian played it badly.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

oh geez I am not on form EBWOP: cant find it

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

poor wording I believe could have been very intentional in my attempted quote to attract the response from a possible real cop. Yeah seems a rather grand conclusion but it is something that struck me as odd is all.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Im trusting my gut now on things as it has been very acurate lately. Mr Stoofer Lord_Hur or Singing are all good choices for lynch today can I get peoples feelings about any/all of these people.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

This is a diversion from the main goal and of no benefit so sit and speculate about.
Even if we think we know the reveal game we still need to find someone to lynch. Leave guardian aside as unknown alignment and look for some scum peoples.
Yes I should be more active and I will do a big post in the next few days achieving this aim.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Yay people speaking will post tommorow or somesuch!