Countdown of the Illuminati GAME OVER

[Miztef]

/confirm

[Miztef]

I agree that at least a skim of the mini version of this would be beneficial to anyone.

I don't know the relationship between kilroy and flameaxe, but it seems that the votes so far are not exactly random. Anyone care to explain?

Here some tips about this theme that I have from the original (I was mafia):

1. The mafia

will

(almost certainly) have a code for when they are "daykilling". You probably won't pick up on it (no one did in the mini version), but you can be aware that the mafia will likely know who killed their partners when a daykill backfired (ie. they will know that person is a townie... or serial killer).

2. Masons - It was said in the mini version that you have a really hard role. Be very careful to not give away your identity. If a player claims mason, do not vote him / hammer him without other reason. This happened last game and basically outed ooba as a mason (although we (the mafia) didn't really get around to daykilling him).

3.Townies - MoS did a great job with this role last game, tricking many of us scum. Try to find out who the masons are (without telling anyone else!) and protect them (as a general guideline, but again, don't make it seem like they are masons). If you get assumed as a mason, that's great! However, you have to look quite townie like as well, because that's how the masons will be looking.

Yeah, I guess this turned out to be a basically "play well and you won't lose" little speech, but for people who haven't played this, I think it may bring some insight into how this works in general. If I remember any more good tips, I'll try to post them as well (unless the town in general deems it scummy to give tips).

[Miztef]

Ok, I don't like these posts:

and bringing up mafia codes ..

Mitzef brought it up originally, actually. Do you find what I've said to be unhelpful to town?

No, I think it is quite helpful in indicating you are scum.

Do you find what I've said more unhelpful to town than what Mitzef has said?

I find your comment much more likely to be revealing your scum alignment than Miztef's.

How do you find his post worse then mine. There needs to be reasons behind why something is scummier then something else.

ooba's 20 is trying to look helpful, but isn't imo -- how else do we get the game started, sir??

fos: ooba

The game has started without random voting now , hasn't it?

vote : neko2086

for the being the first to mention the SK kill and bringing up mafia codes ..

Guradian's FoS here seems very forced. He has no reason to mention ooba, and the town had many posts of discussion without random voting. I know that guardian had a peek at the orignal game, he posted in the aftermath of it. It seems unreasonable that he did not realize ooba was in the former game and knew what he was doing, not to mention that he could have seen that we discourage random voting in the previous game as well.

Then Ooba's vote is not very convincing... both his statements are incorrect, and neither do I find as reasons to someone being scummy.

The mafia will (almost certainly) have a code for when they are "daykilling".

Yes, but they could also make up a fake code to lead the town to draw incorrect conclusions and connections, so I'd be careful when searching for such things.

This is silliness. To a certain extent, it would be helpful to crack the code so we know who the mafia intend to kill, but all we would really have to do is

identify

a code, real or fake. It doesn' t matter if that scum player actually intends to kill the person indicated in the code. What matters is that they used a code to indicate a kill and are therefore scum and should be lynched.

SK driven lynches should help, but a major concern should be preventing the scum from placing a desperate kill before they are lynched. Don't hover around L-1, L-2. Don't give conditions for a lynch or threats that make a lynch seem inevitable. The ideal would be to actually

lynch

the scum, not to let them go down shooting.

I agree with nabakov here to an extent. However, scum will probably only use the code near death... so finding the real code is much more valuable, in order to stop them from being able to use it freely (not near death).

Squashing the scum like bugs is the best bet. I completely agree with nabakov on that front. No lingering at L-1, L-2. once it's at L-3, L-4, just speed lynch if you have any real suspicion of the player. We need to get players dead at least once a week. That means in order to surprise the scum, we have to jump at the 5-6 day mark as well sometimes.

It looks like the SK made their first guarantee kill. We have a week before they can make another one.

This sentence feel really forced to anyone else?

fos: neko

it does seem somewhat suspicious but not enough for a vote yet

just no. Way too vague and unhelpful, not even a real vote placed.

Another reason not to stay at L-1 is that Mafia (or more unlikely SK) might risk a kill just to lower the amount of people needed for a lynch. This only applies when there is an even number of players alive (like today).

I'll check out the previous game as suggested.

Also,

vote: Max

. (Not purely a bandwagon vote.)

The first line of this is correct and should be noted.

Sarcastro just came out and voted max, and then this vote... both with no reasoning behind them. These are just as bad as random votes, which should be discouraged here.

Vote: Max

Let's get this bandwagon started.

I'm starting to like the new ABR.

Why does it matter whether someone is mafia or SK? We need to lynch both.

And there are no "hints" here. This is proper mafia - you need to figure out who the scum are based on their play, not based on mod clues or whatever else you're used to.

That is all of sarcastro's posts in this game. Too unhelpful overall for my tastes, but enough to make people think he is an active participant. I don't like it.


I'm going to

vote: guardian

and

FOS: Ooba, Neko, Sarcastro, Samruc, dahill1

[Miztef]

oh, you mean your vote ABR? You actually put

some

reasoning behind it. You state that you voted him for stating the obvious and being unhelpful, which is acceptable reasoning for a third vote in my opinion.

The others have no reasoning, which = close to random vote which = I don't like.

[Miztef]

I do agree with all you've said ABR, I'm just trying to push people to get out their arguements and play aggresively. Noticed I focused a lot on scumminess from low activity in my post.

I actually didn't realize how much evidence max had against him, and thank you for pointing it out.

@Samruc: Until you actually show me some evidence, I'm not gonna like the vote in this game. I'm adament about wanting active and aggresive players this game. The scum had a huge advantage last game (imo) and I believe the same is true here. Therefore, we need all the advantages we can get. Hunches are too weak for me in this game (though I probably won't lynch someone based on such actions, I just believe weak play needs to be minimized).

I'll decide on if I want to vote max later, right now I'm going out for a bit.

[Miztef]

That's fine then samruc. I'm not going to go about voting you.

On the max issue... I'm not sure If I like the guardian vote or max vote better. I will definately

FOS: Max

though, his defense in reposnse to ABR's post seems lacking at best. The arguement "how many people read their own posts" seems woefully misleading, because you really should. you should have just admitted it was a mistake. You

still

haven't corrected it too.

What does everyone think of guardian btw?

[Miztef]

How about farside22? Wanna lynch farside22? I do.

... What are you even talking about? I suppose the previous post, but I'd prefer more eleboration.

Why are stating things such as "who should we lynch today, albert?" why are you inclined to listen to him? Or are you being sarcastic?

[Miztef]

... What are you even talking about? I suppose the previous post, but I'd prefer more eleboration.

That post made no sense at all. I suspect obfuscating scum.

Why are stating things such as "who should we lynch today, albert?" why are you inclined to listen to him? Or are you being sarcastic?

Fishing for Masons much? I happen to value Albert's opinion, dynamism, and decisiveness.

Hey Albert I wouldn't mind lynching Miztef, too.

Ok, so the post made no sense at all to you? why don't you just say that?

Also, why don't you just say you value albert's opinion? I do too, and I'm not afraid to admit it.

I questioned your posts due to lack of usefulness, you were just stating comments with no reasoning or explaination. Why do people do that? No one really cares about hunches, people care about reasons.

Well, I don't really have a defense for the "Fishing for masons" line. I didn't even realize it could be interpreted that way until you pointed it out. I guess my defense is that scum probably wouldn't come out and say it so directly, mine was just an error.

It seems like most everyone you mention DGB you just "wouldn't mind if they were lynched"... well, my question is, who do you

want

to be lynched most, and why.

I completely agree with farside's post unlike the others. I think you shouldn't vote without reason. I don't mind so much voting on a bandwagon because you agree with someone else's reasoning. Of course, you are to be held accountable if that person comes up pro-town, but at least there is something you are contributing (in the sense that you are condoning certain logic/points). With a "hunch" vote, you are giving almost nothing to work with. It's not nessisarily a scummy thing, but it is not helpful to the town imo.

[Miztef]

well, funnily enough, farside's post starts off with her agreeing with me... didn't even realize that until I looked back at it (I was reading it off of ABR's quote).

I don't agree with her vote on Albert at all though, (well, if it were an offical vote, but no matter) as I think Albert has been one of the most pro-town players so far. Just because there is disagreement on a small point in his arguement against max, it does not make him scummy, especially not vote worthy.

@dahill1: In post 63 I mention my reasons why I find guardian scummy. Just because he says 1 thing I agree with, does not mean he is not scum. Frankly I don't like how you used that as an arguement against my vote at all.

I am going to switch to

unvote vote: max

though, because I think my guardian vote has a little too shallow evidence and isn't going to pick up any votes anytime soon.

[Miztef]

@guardian: I'm not impling you have a double standard, I'm saying your not backing up your accusations. Only know did you just do so (somewhat), but, for clarification:

Why is neko's idea that scum may have a fake code scummy?

[Miztef]

@dahill1: Outpacing the SK is pointless and has been discussed before. the SK may make a kill right after every lynch, negating is original requirement to wait a week.

Terribly sorry neko, my fos on you is a mistake. I must have just thrown it in there by mistake, because you came up in a lot of the things I was mentioning.

I agree with nabakov's latest post, farside's post seems completely detatched from a vote on albert. I don't understand how it is good justification to vote him.

[Miztef]

I am going to switch to

unvote vote: max

though, because I think my guardian vote has a little too shallow evidence and isn't going to pick up any votes anytime soon.

The game is early, yet bandwagons seem swift, so I don't see how number of votes on Guardian should influence your suspicions of him or of Max.

The number of votes someone has isn't indicative of his / her scumminess per se. To use it as a reason to gauge scumminess seems odd, unconventional, and a poor reason in my opinion.

mmm... I didn't really mean it to sound like I was voting him explicitly because others are. I just feel his case needs more attention at this time, and guardian's doesn't really need it.

With the speedy deadlines in this game, I think each players resources in this game should be as focused as possible. Right now the hot button players players are max and neko, so I think focusing on them is good enough for now, barring any heavily scummy action from other players. I felt my suspicion of guardian was too weak to push him into the limelight right now.

[Miztef]

Right now the hot button players players are max and neko, so I think focusing on them is good enough for now, barring any heavily scummy action from other players.

Your reasoning is confusing. Earlier, you FOS'd Sarcastro and Samruc for their votes on Max, yet you are using their votes to justify your vote.

I never really thought of it that way... How I see it is that there are 2 people in the limelight right now (well, neko seems to be leaving it). Out of the 2, since we should lynch soon, I would lynch max. There is no other case as of yet I find overwhelmingly more compelling them the one against him.

Even though I sent out FoS's, I think there is a good chance any of those people are pro-town, even if not, their logic may still be viable, even as scum.

[Miztef]

Sarcastro and Samruc still have yet to even explain their votes (I recognize the whole trap thing, but refusing to reveal reasons for votes still ticks me off) wouldn't that make them scummier?

My question is why is Albert letting them off with just a vote and giving the reasoning for others to jump on? I have a feeling that no one is going to listen to me on this. I don't find his earlier comments helpful on this page.

Sure man. Let me put it this way; the very clues to finding mafia lie in the links between the players, not in the hypothetical reasoning behind a vote.

How does this explain a vote against a player without letting them comment. Is this okay for everyone to jump on a BW? Or is it okay for only certain people?
I'm chaning my vote due to Miztef' 180 degree turn about from one post to another. Sloppy is scummie

unvote: vote: Miztef

That's it? You give evidence for why others are scummy, and throw a 1 liner in against me (which I find very vague as to what you are refering to) and get on my bandwagon. I don't like that at all, talk about 180's, you were

agreeing

with me a post or 2 ago.

[Miztef]

I will agree to a muffin bandwagon. There is scummy evidence there, and his input is subpar anyways (if he is pro-town).

unvote vote: muffinhead

I'd like to mention that I agree with samruc's reasoning behind the max vote as well, indeed, it is partially why I was voting him.

As to comments about my narrow mindedness being scummy, I think there has to be a certain level of focusing in this game in order to actually get people lynched, rather then all go off in our own directions. I will try mention everything I find scummy about everyone, but my vote will be used to actually lynch people quickly, instead of just idling on players no one else finds scummy.

[Miztef]

As to comments about my narrow mindedness being scummy, I think there has to be a certain level of focusing in this game in order to actually get people lynched

There are two stages in this game: buzzing around sniffing ass for enemies phase, and blind focus fire phase. Now we are in the latter. At the time you bandwagonned max, we were not.

Who decides this? you and guardian? That's how it seems to have been decided. Just because you agree with this lynch and didn't agree with the max lynch does not mean a "phase of game change" has happened.

[Miztef]

ok but, was it not the case that some of these were "narrow minded"? Most of them seem like bandwagoning to me. What makes mine so much more interesting that it needed to be addressed?

Funnily enough, Max's vote seems like one of the most narrow minded of all the ones on muffinhead so far. Maybe that's just because I don't understand what he is saying at all in his post though.

[Miztef]

Wow, this game is rushing by so fast.

I'm still online, so I'd like to point out that if I am scum, I'd be sending in a kill list right now.

Interestingly, Nabakov seems to have been killed by the serial killer. I see no reason why he would have died from failed daykill, he looked strongly pro-town (imo anyway) and I doubt he would have tried this early and without a code posted.

We seem to be off to a great start, although killing me will do you no favors.

[Miztef]

NabakovNabakov, Mafia, Daykilled Day Two

The following people have made posts between the end of D1 and around the NK.

Lloyd
Flameaxe
dahill
armlx
Albert

Guardian posted at 10:20. Miztef at 11:06. Neither posted in the times between lynch and the kill. Sarcastro just posted.

1 of these 8 is our likely SK.

I believe the SK would realize this and attempt not to post around the time of the kill. I believe evidence like this is too WIFOM to find the serial killer. Players not connected with confirmed mafia and masons are the best bet.

[Miztef]

BM always quoted like so. (with explaination above the quote in question)

sorry i'm kind of a newb, can you explain the reference

[Miztef]

We are in a great position everyone. Only 4 anti-town players remaining.

However, with such a low number of anti-town left we have to be very careful to pick our votes. Killing with little evidence is only going to give these players the advantage, allowing for fast kills with little thought.

We have a good base of information to work off right now, the posts of the 3 dead mafia. Nabakov probably left next to no useful evidence in his posts, he was playing exceptionally well, and I think he knew better then to leave connections laying about. However, muffinhead is another story. Who did he pay attention to? Cast suspicion on?

He voted max, so I'm going to believe for now that max is pro-town (possibly SK, but I think that's a bit unlikely).

I'm getting a very strong impression that armlx is the SK:

Wow, 3 posts while I was working out who was SK.

Dahill, as Miz stated, scum would probably just killing spree at that point.

Flameaxe:

Its hard to follow through on an "A would kill B" argument. Its also hard for DGB to follow through on arguments in general.

Even though this is evidence that I am not scum, I must point out that it is horribly flawed. I stopped the quicklynch did I not? Wouldn't I wait and see if I could stop my own quicklynch before I actually go out and get myself killed? Now I supposedly look like I "can't be mafia", if I were mafia, this would have been a great plan to make me look more pro-town.

This line makes me think SK. Why? It has this idea that the scum just want to kill spree everyone, but only the SK is thinking this way. When I was scum (previous game), I wanted to avoid having to use "the list" as much as possible, not as soon as possible.

Vote Miztef

I have a strong urge to quote Run DMC with this vote.

Here, he wanted to quicklynch me. SK definately loves those quicklynches.

NabakovNabakov, Mafia, Daykilled Day Two

The following people have made posts between the end of D1 and around the NK.

Lloyd
Flameaxe
dahill
armlx
Albert

Guardian posted at 10:20. Miztef at 11:06. Neither posted in the times between lynch and the kill. Sarcastro just posted.

1 of these 8 is our likely SK.

First to mention the SK after the kill, and quickly formulates an analysis as to who it must be.

OK, back to where I was.

Unvote

"Confirmed" not scum leaves less non-SK roles than other 2.

We want to lynch the SK.

dahill IMO would target a higher profile player he has played with than killroy. For example, he is in multiple games with farside ATM.

Not even going to bother out thinking Flameaxe. He is the default choice if others go into negative SK chances.

Leaves Miztef, Lloyd, and Albert.

Miztef is WIFOMing his own grave here. Also is fairly confirmed not scum, so less possible non-SK roles.

Albert prompted the bum rush on Mitzef, which is SK friendly.

Lloyd just jumped on wagons and held back.

Not sure who is the most SK-ish.

I have shown that there is no good reason why I still can't be scum, (It's hard to believe I'm trying to prove I could be scum). Even so, there only only 3 scum left, and 11 other non-SK roles. Also, what WIFOM have I stated? This?:

I believe the SK would realize this and attempt not to post around the time of the kill. I believe evidence like this is too WIFOM to find the serial killer. Players not connected with confirmed mafia and masons are the best bet.

Well, it's a good reason not to believe the SK must be in those certain players. (although at this time, I am trying to prove the SK is one of those, but that is somewhat irrelevant, my statement here was to make sure it is known that the SK could still be anyone).

[Miztef]

Miztef:

You were at L-1. If your post stopping your quick lynch failed, you were dead and couldn't kill people. Thats my logic as to why you would machine gun people.

I was online at the time of the kill. I made sure no one else in the game was online, and those 8 were the only people other than hidden browsing people that could have done it.

Was I? I actually did not realize that, wow, pretty shocking actually.

Are you sure everyone was not online? Maybe they just did not post. Or is there another way to tell exactly when players are online?

I'm not sure, but could the SK have sent a PM earlier about who he wishes to kill, and Pooky waited until the next moment guaranteed kill was allowed?

[Miztef]

Miz:

On the front page there's a list of all logged in users, minus those who browse hidden. Those were the people who were on a few minutes later or who posted in a reasonable time period (to account for those who browse hidden).

As for the kill thing.

The Serial Killer and Mafia may ..... schedule kills to occur at a certain time.

They could have scheduled it to happen then, but that timing was a really awkward one and if it was scheduled I'd expect the kill in the lynch post (we had a kill in the opening post, right? So the first time an SK kill can occur in a day is the mod post starting that day). Its much more likely the SK waited to see who was lynched then sent in a kill.

Ah, that's true. Well, a lot of what you say makes sense. It is more probable that the SK is within those 8.

So, I do concur that the next lynch or 2 should be 1 of those players. Armlx seems like the most probable choice to me.

Armlx has been on the SK case for some time now, and even if it is likely he is not SK, he is very likely Mafia.

It is hard to tell if any of the others have likely SK connections. Guardian came in and tried to save me instead of finishing me off, is this a tatic to look less scummy? less SK-like? It's obviously in the SK's best interest to get people killed, would he do the opposite to throw us off. (I know, completely WIFOM, but it's the only thing out of the ordinary I could see of the 8 posters).

Flameaxe has been supposedly meta'd that he would kill kilroy first, I'm not sure if this is credible, but it's there.

I don't like dahill's playstyle, but I can't say it's SK-like. Unlikely.

Albert is quick on the draw and tries to be pro-town. A good combination for a SK, but since he's helped find scum, I'd like to keep him around for a while.

Lloyd seems quick on the draw as well. In 2 of his posts he talks about the SK, out of his 6 posts with content (1 being just a vote on me). I find him somewhat likely of being the SK.

Sarcastro is probably the worst of all these players, posting only 4 times with nearly 0 useful content. He voted max and myself. He was not on the muffin bandwagon though. I would lynch him based on lack of usefulness alone.

[Miztef]

Yeah, because lynching people you don't think are scum is

totally

good play.

This game has been moving at an incredible pace, and I don't think it's unreasonable that I haven't been able to contribute much.

what are you referring to here? If your talking about not voting muffinhead, I agree that not voting him makes you less likely SK, but more likely scum.

[Miztef]

@llyod: quicklynching may be good,

once

we have a target. But to get a target means giving that person fair warning. So, I think we were really just lucky with the last one. We should continue as normal, but once a player gets to L-3 or so, we may be able to pull off a quicklynch. To pull off a "full" quicklynch seems too flimsy to work, and we may waste pro-town players by continuously doing so.

About Max - Muffinhead did vote him, if there is any substantial evidence in this game, I think muffinhead's first vote being on a scumbuddy seems unlikely.

Does my almost dieing not deter you at all to think I may be pro-town? Even though I argued against that logic, I still would think it should have some sway.

Overall, you seem to be picking out bad lynches to me, Armlx is the only good lynch you have stated out of the bunch. You are much too hasty in this quicklynch idea as well. I just don't like it.

[Miztef]

We're lynching Flameaxe because everyone is getting too trigger happy. Although I know flameaxe isn't going to help discussion much, "Bum rushing" a player every day is not going to help us win this game. (It's only going to give everyone STDs). Discussion, evidence, and then "Bum rushing" (ie. putting on a condom) is a much better strategy. (Less likelyhood of STD transfer).

[Miztef]

dahill, Miztef, you're doing it wrong.

we are voting flameaxe because as neko said, Flameaxe has contributed literally nothing to the game.

So, if you could be so kind as to make a properly formatted post, in which you vote flameaxe and let us know how many more votes are needed... thx.

lloyd, with us!

Miztef, I think think there is great evidence on Flameaxe. I think quick lynching only works if someone notices a good reason to think someone else is scum, X other people agree and/or decide it is a good reason to bus, and then it explodes.

So, let's vote flameaxe?

Are you really so blind slighted by the thrill of quick lynching?

Players who have posted nearly as little as Flameaxe, if not more so:

-Blazerunner = 3 posts, decent amount of contribution average
-DGB = 8 posts, most with near 0 contribution average
-Max = 6 posts, decent about of content average
-Ooba = 6 posts, almost 0 contribution average
-samruc = 5 posts, low contribution average
-Sarcastro = 7 posts, decent amount of contribution average
-Flameaxe = 4 posts, low contribution average

In no particular order, but looking through these, I see no particular reason why Flameaxe's is worse then the others.

[Miztef]

To clarify my post about who wasn't contributing much, I wasn't trying to say we should all or any of them, I was only pointing out that Flameaxe doesn't seem much worse or better then them. I saw no reason why the evidence against Flameaxe was so much greater then the others that he needs to be lynched, the others payed no attention.

@llyod: I find it hard to believe you disagreed with many of my "content amounts", I put the exact number of posts they posted, and the amount of average content in their posts. I wasn't referring to quality of content, although I suppose I wasn't very precise with my "amounts".

I'm liking the armlx vote most right now, although I think lynching players with low content may be our next decent option, killing everyone with activity isn't really going to help this game.

[Miztef]

If I'm not already, I

unvote vote: armlx

[Miztef]

Farside, Mason is dead

Sarcastro, Mason is dead

Haha, I knew it. When I saw that both farside and Sarcastro got killed, I checked who they were voting for. Armlx. Haha.

I agree, this clinched it for me as well.

I'm going to suggest killing albert next, he can be too influential. Killing off other players that have tried to be influential has worked very well to far.

Of course, this would mean my own death soon, but I still think it likely albert is anti-town.

[Miztef]

Actually better yet, let's lynch guardian.

He was only on the muffin lynch (and let's face it, the mafia probably didn't value him too much) out of all the mafia lynches.

He has not once suggested killing another mafia member (all known but 1 now), barring muffin. I believe he is the final mafia.

[Miztef]

edit: well, okay he has suggested the other scum as being scummy, but he didn't vote them. That's what's important.

I really should get my facts straight first ><.

[Miztef]

i say we lynch miztef..
anyone else with me on this one?

sadly, I kind of agree that I'm a good lynch.

However, please take into consideration that I was near dead and did not send in a kill list (This is definitely true because no one died).

[Miztef]

However, please take into consideration that I was near dead and did not send in a kill list (This is definitely true because no one died).

That argument is invalid.

Miztef:

You were at L-1. If your post stopping your quick lynch failed, you were dead and couldn't kill people. Thats my logic as to why you would machine gun people.

I was online at the time of the kill. I made sure no one else in the game was online, and those 8 were the only people other than hidden browsing people that could have done it.

Was I? I actually did not realize that, wow, pretty shocking actually.

You were online the whole time, probably deciding on which player to kill, without even realizing that you were so close to lynch.

Vote: DrippingGoofball

FOS: Miztef

I feel safe enough to bet my life that DG is an anti-town role.

Alright, good point, but I don't think it's completely invalid. I knew I was going to die shortly, and lynches go

really

fast in this game.

Why DGB? Any reasoning? I'll go with it without any, because you bet your life and all, but I'm curious anyway.

[Miztef]

The evidence against DGB is there, but her logic isn't bad. If she thought Armlx was bad and lloyd was good, then why would she want to kill lloyd. Just because a bandwagon has started doesn't always mean it's in the best interest of the town to kill that person.

Albert, your mindset of "Bandwagons = always good" and "quicklynch everyone!" seems like one of the most SK like things I've seen in the game. It's almost too obviously SK like.

However, I can't help but get the feeling that the SK would want to hide themselves as best as possible. I believe the SK would probably post only a medicore amount, and try to have all his/her information as sound as possible to look pro-town.

In regards to "the list" of possible SK candidates, I'm thinking dahill is the most likely out of all them for SK. He has been in the "bum rush" of every player so far (to my knowledge), and has voted in other promising lynches as well (neko, flameaxe, myself). His posts are agreeable and helps keep him out of lurker range, but not in lots of activity range. twice he "forgot" that I was near lynch, and both times convinced him not to vote me. Thinking as an SK, the mafia are the only enemy you can find and look good in the town, so when I say I was near lynch, it seems to convince him I'm not scum, but I still could be SK. He doesn't even mention that I could be SK.

Dahill also pushed my idea that the SK could be outside of "the list"which would protect his hide if he is the SK.

He mentions as well that he'd like to "outpace the SK", which would mean more killings in this game overall. Not sure if he even realized (as SK) that the SK does get extra kills after each lynch.

[Miztef]

i didn't realize at first that the SK could kill after lynches because i'm not the SK

Having a certain role does not necessarily increase one's attention to detail.

I disagree. I think as SK, anyone would be much more likely to know how the SK role worked.

No one has yet asserted that dahill was being deceitful, only that he didn't notice how his SK role worked.

I find him not noticing how his SK role worked to be very extremely unlikely.

ok, but as you said, there is nothing stopping him from being deceitful about it. Faking having false knowledge about it may be a great way to create a WIFOM trap about it.

We should ignore that as evidence against or for him being SK.

[Miztef]

I reread the thread, and my general impression has become that these players are the most likely anti-town:

Albert B. Rampage - Many players have been on his case, mafia and town. Since the mafia are so into bussing this game, I get the feeling they payed attention to their buddies more then usual. He has helped kill the correct scum multiple times though, so I think it's best to look into others for now.

Neko - This one is causing me lots of trouble. If he is mafia, then he was heavily bussed. Tali's only post condone's lynching him quickly. Would the mafia really go

that

far to bus their own partners in this game? I'm not sure, but I definately have an eye out for this one.

Flameaxe - also bussed by the mafia on numerous occasions, and is not very helpful to the town. I think there is a chance he is SK as well. Right now, He may be our best choice to lynch.

Those are the 3 players that appeal to me the most to lynch today.

In other news, I noticed in nakabov's posts he is confused about the usage of scum codes. It may be a decietful tatic, but I'm thinking the scum actually don't have a code at all. After looking through llyod's final posts, I found nothing that resembled much of a code. Therefore, for now I think it's safe to assume the final mafia member does not have any more info then we do (from secret codes).

[Miztef]

unvote vote: neko

[Miztef]

Note: Blazerunner was watching the thread, and he DID NOT VOTE.

nothing much to prove here, no one needs to protect others anymore.

[Miztef]

I'll go for a

unvote vote: Blazerunner

vote.

[Miztef]

I re-skimmed, and I bring significant news:

neko is town. let's not lynch him.

who is scum? I shall re-skim again!

wonderfully unhelpful conclusion.

Look, if anything, we need

cases

against people from now on. Not shitty 1 liners about how someone may be scummy, but actual cases. Killing off quickly is obvious not working well anymore, with 2 deaths per attempt.

We

must

kill the SK ASAP. His extra kills are causing major problems, especially with the low player count now present.

[Miztef]

Flameaxe seems very reasonable at this point, but we should continue discussion for as long as possible before we lynch again.

Hmm... or should we? I'm actually not so sure. I mean, more discussion means more likelyhood of scum slipping up, but there is even more chance of masons slipping up. I'd actually like to know what people think on this issue, is it better to go fast or slow now?

I think I'll leave off any votes until we come so some sort of conclusion on that point.

[Miztef]

Re-read Flameaxe. I don't want him dead today. He hasn't done anything wrong, and I'm pretty sure he hasn't even been on the site for a couple of days.

So:

neko
Flameaxe
dahill
me

in order of least town to most town, I don't want to see any of them lynched today.

4 players left to eliminate...

How about max? I can't help but feel he is cleared (as scum) from muffin voting him, and I can't help but feel he is not the SK.

I'm really not sure about neko, but for now we seem to be moving away from that direction.

DGB needs to be looked into. There has been little investigation into her motives, and I think we should focus some more attention on her. I'll

FOS: DGB

for now, and see what I can pull up.

[Miztef]

sorry, I've been really busy with school lately, final projects and such.

I'm more comfortable with a DGB lynch today, because I think it will reveal more about Albert, and there is more overall evidence against her then Flameaxe (even though flameaxe may indeed be less helpful).

unvote vote: DGB

[Miztef]

wow.. so my vote didn't even count, it was an over hammer ><. I really need to keep track of the votes more.

well, ok, we are in a bit of trouble now.

I want to point out ABR's overwhelming conviction that DBG was scum as false, however, I think it points him out as more town then scum.

Back to neko now? Alright, here we go again.

[Miztef]

just briefly reread guardian..
main points were that he thought neko was town and that samruc was scum
something we should consider when lynching

agreed, we should try to protect those who the masons protected. I doubt the scum will attempt daykilling anymore (at least soon) and it's doubtful the serial killer won't already research into who guardian protected or not.

Not sure how likely samruc is to be anti-town, but he doesn't contribute too much anyway.

[Miztef]

I'm starting to agree with ABR here, it seems like dahill is lying. I haven't liked dahill's plays for most of the game, but I attributed it mostly to newbishness not scumminess.

Right now, I like max and neko, overall, I just don't think they are scum.

Samruc is a bit of a doozy, because he lurks (maybe unintentionally?), and isn't too helpful, but he hasn't actually done much openly scummy things.

ABR is risky, because I don't like how he wanted DGB dead, she dies, and it turns out she's not anti-town. That looks really bad on ABR, even if it is "pro-town" to push the town forward.

Flameaxe is a big lurker and posts almost uselessly. He does this in most games though, so I have no idea if he is actually scum or not. I don't know if it's worth the risk of to lynch him.

[Miztef]

this game was really fast and really intense at the start. I liked how we caught scum so quickly and easily, but to be honest, I had little idea of who actually was scum. The only lynch I actually believed in was the armlix one, the rest were pretty iffy.