Mini 570, A Small Town in Italy Mafia, Over

[Erratus Apathos]

Vote Ration.

It's the only Rational vote.

FoS thvampire.

your sugestions for why there was no nk are absurd, particularally compared to the much more likely answer that the target was docked or the killer was rbed.

[Erratus Apathos]

Unvote
vote killa seven

[Erratus Apathos]

I voted kills for post number 18 (his only post so far) as guppy objecting to occult's leading question was a more than reasonble response. expceting an answer to that question is like asking someone "have you stopped beating your wife?" and expecting a serous reply.

[Erratus Apathos]

well hell. now i feel like stupid for thinging that that that vot was your final vote.

youo can joke all as much dick as you want, i won't jugde you.

[Erratus Apathos]

The way I see it, either you're mafia, or a townie who's playing the game really badly. Either way, you have got to be lynched.

Vote: Occult

a townie whose is plkaying the game baldy should got to be lynched?

unvote vote guppy

[Erratus Apathos]

I'm going to

FoS: Guppy

for aforementioned reasons. I'd vote, but I don't know when the votecount was updated, and I am not sure if I want to hammer

right now

.

your actualy considered hammering him?

unvote vote avanashv

[Erratus Apathos]

mod: Guppy unovted occult post 45

[Erratus Apathos]

Mod could you prod mikeydamam?

thanks

Ha! My self voting-strategy worked again.

And what exactly would that be?

I second this questoin, what exactly what were you expeting to gain from elf voting?

avinashv, you are correct in your thinking of me not posting yet, I will post more when we have more to talk about.

Theres plenty to talk about especialy the guppy wagon. trying to avoiding givving an opionion on it?

[Erratus Apathos]

that claim was NEEDLES. Be that as it may Ill wait to see anyone counterclams then vote.

As I said I saw Lalmtreasteek suggesting the idea that occut could be cop. If he had claimed before me it would then make my "im cop occult is scum" look a lot more unbelievable. This is my 3rd game started and none so far are past day one so I don't know too much of the nuances of this game yet. I was personaly reluctant to claim so early but given there was no nk we have a very good chance (if im sane) to lynch scum day one and get another investgation done. I do believe Lalmtreasteek is the best choice for me to investigate.

It isnt a good idea to let scum know who you're investgating. if they know you're investigating a townie they could nk him denying you the investigation Or worse they might have framer

All you guys have to do is trust me day one and see if occult turns up guilty thus assuring me of my sanity, and obviously assuring you of my genuine claim.

If someone could help me by explaining a little bit about role interactions/observations.
What roles are there capable of viewing night actions, like who could see who was prtecded by whom or who was investigated by whom?

Trackers can choose a player at inght and see if who anyine else targetted that player. there are some a few others see the wiki: Category:Informative roles

Also I assume that the doc can protect me night one and I am safe to have a second investigation and will only be nked when the doctor is found and killed by mafia, or if the mafia or a sk has a one shot unstoppable nk? (the second part I find rather hard to imagine in this sort of game)
Is it likely there is a sk?

Sk would mean there is two kills last night and that were BOTH prevetned. this is not at all likely

And if you guys would like to put in a unoffical vote to me on who you would like to investigate before we lynch I am happy to do the towns bidding.

again the scum should not know who the cop is targetting

[Erratus Apathos]

I claim Mafia Roleblocker.

Thats good enouhg for hammer

unvote vote occult

[Erratus Apathos]

doc 2
mafia 0

I think Occults question as a scum tactic is not so likely - do you think Prof. Guppy's joking response was reassuring? I think how you feel about this would determine whether Occult deserves an attack. If Guppy stinks consider that Occult might know something

fos: vampireofdusseldorf for suggesting maybe Occults "diverting suspicion........." without syaing that's what you personally think he did. Sounds like you want to see if other people buy it first. I couldn't totally understand you though..

This post is Scummy is in every wat imaginible. lalm here i quick to insure us that occult's question wasn't a scum tactic, even though st best was a no-tell. occult

did

know somethong namely Gppy's alinement and it sounds ilke Lalm knew that Occult knew.

Vote: Palm Tree Steak

[or t least thats how I keep reading you're name as, lalm]

[Erratus Apathos]

Unvote

I wanted to rule out occults WIFOM post so I investigated Lalm. I'm going to assume hes town, as a godfather, roleblocker and goon seems a little overpowered in this size game.

That depends on how many power roles there are in the town has and how good the mod is at balence and a number of other facters we couldn't know of, so realy we cant just assume thers no gf. off course its not a good idea to lynch lalm now, just keep in mind not ro rule him out when were in LyLo.

So I am also more likely to belive ration is innocent.

that doesn't even make any sense why would you belive that? Occult is scum. trusting scum i

always

a bad idea.

Ill look for another lead in the meantime I noticed mdm never siad anything day 1.

vote: mikeydaman

post or roast!

[Erratus Apathos]

I don't think it's likly that lalm is a gf either, just that we shouldn't rule it out that there is a fgf because it there is one and we ruled it uot then we lose. Of coufrse until we are in Lylo (assumming three scum) we should consider him a Confirmed townie.

fos ap

vote hoping so far.. and hammering occult after he had been hammered. (as pointed out by the mod)[/b]

I think you that mean me here ap never change his vote or voted occult

Vote hoping is, by itself a stupd thing to use as a scum tell espicialy day one. presuring people into posting isthe Town's est weapon and voting is one way og getting that done.

Why o you think Miscounting the votes is a scum tell?

[Erratus Apathos]

Killa I stil want answer to this

Why o you think Miscounting the votes is a scum tell?

[Erratus Apathos]

it makes you look like you jumped on the wagon just to save face, hammering someone thats allready dead doesnt look good.

Okay than fear enough reason to suspect someone for voting after the hammer but I'd would like to point ut that i was in fact the seveth vote.

Voted occult:
vampire
sensfan
guppy
avinash
killa
firebll
me

Didnt vote occult":
occult
lalm
mikey
ratoin
awsome

I'm pretty sure this is acurate but if this is wrong and on of the above fice voted for occult give me the post number pleas

[Erratus Apathos]

The preseeding post by Symedoc, sets off my Scumdar. the way that he says in more than one way that ration didn't have any reason for his posts, Feels like he's hidding something. If ration didn't had a ration to post then he woudn't have posted, egro Ration had a reason to post.

FOS Sykedoc

may upgrade to vote pending post or replacment from Mikey.

[Erratus Apathos]

whose saoid they were certian ou're Scum?

[Erratus Apathos]

Mod canyou please replace mikeydamian asap please?

thanks and wlcome back

[Erratus Apathos]

confirm vote: xxfoxx

for this wifom post

fos: awesome pants

for resons that will explian later

[Erratus Apathos]

vamp is yuor role name also Town Detetive as well?

[Erratus Apathos]

The only avdantage of nolynch in this sitation, is to avoid outing the Doc. since we know Guppy is not the Doc it is prefferrable to lynch him then to nolynch.

Unvote vote Prof Guppy

[Erratus Apathos]

Vote Awesome Pants

To me, Ration's posts on their own don't seem too bad. It concerns me a little that sykedoc keeps defending himself as though he's being voted for because of Ration's posts, and that he hasn't really contributed much himself.

To get a bit of content flowing;

skyedoc: who do you think is the most scummy right now?

This is what jumps out at ne as a scum. Awsome pants pushs suspision to Syke for not contibuting to the Scmhunting, when Awesome hasn't yet even done it himself. further more he's suports the syke wgon without getting onit himself.

Awesome responds to Syks responce to the above

Apologies for the doubleposting but i figured this should be addressed as well.
In my opinion, you would be wrong here. Technically I AM being voted for because of Ration's posts. I'll show you EXACTLY what i mean.

Yes, the original votes on you were because of Ration, but now they're not just because of him but rather the way in which you asked for the votes to be removed and the stuff you said about Ration. In particular, the bit how you said:

As far as i've seen, he was being not so helpful, dodgey, etc.
It looks like he was treating the game as a side thing, and just ignoring it unless he was going to be lynched.

seems a bit weird for me, when you consider he only made two posts. However, if you take into account that you know his alignment and and that you could potentially start to assume the motives behind what he said, your comment makes sense if you are indeed scum.

I might be reading too much into this though, I imagine it must be hard to replace into a game with a bit of heat on you for practically no reason apart from lurking.

Stonger suport of the bandwago, but still, he dosen't get on it, Then, at the end, he gives Syke a weak excuse for the very things he's accusing him off.

[Erratus Apathos]

To me, Ration's posts on their own don't seem too bad. It concerns me a little that sykedoc keeps defending himself as though he's being voted for because of Ration's posts, and that he hasn't really contributed much himself.

To get a bit of content flowing;

skyedoc: who do you think is the most scummy right now?

This is what jumps out at ne as a scum. Awsome pants pushs suspision to Syke for not contibuting to the Scmhunting, when Awesome hasn't yet even done it himself. further more he's suports the syke wgon without getting onit himself.

I'm not sure what you find so bad about that, that basically

is

how I scum hunt. I ask questions and analyse people's responses. Obviously, someone in the uniformed majority will be able to answer truthfully and with ease, whereas someone in the informed minority will potentially lie and try and decieve the rest of the people.

Then, Why werent you oing that, On Day 1? and on Day 2 you limmited your questoins to Syke, and fox, Why?

Apologies for the doubleposting but i figured this should be addressed as well.
In my opinion, you would be wrong here. Technically I AM being voted for because of Ration's posts. I'll show you EXACTLY what i mean.

Yes, the original votes on you were because of Ration, but now they're not just because of him but rather the way in which you asked for the votes to be removed and the stuff you said about Ration. In particular, the bit how you said:

As far as i've seen, he was being not so helpful, dodgey, etc.
It looks like he was treating the game as a side thing, and just ignoring it unless he was going to be lynched.

seems a bit weird for me, when you consider he only made two posts. However, if you take into account that you know his alignment and and that you could potentially start to assume the motives behind what he said, your comment makes sense if you are indeed scum.

I might be reading too much into this though, I imagine it must be hard to replace into a game with a bit of heat on you for practically no reason apart from lurking.

Stonger suport of the bandwago, but still, he dosen't get on it, Then, at the end, he gives Syke a weak excuse for the very things he's accusing him off.

I guess you could say that I'm still hunting in this post. Unfortunately, he didn't really respond to that post with his opinion but that was what I was aiming for.

To elaborate on the points I made, I've replaced into games and when you know the alignment of the person you're replacing, you tend to jump to conclusion about the motives behind their posts. I thought that possibly he had done this and sort of subconsciously put that across in his posts about how Ration was so dodgy and unhelpful. That said, I've also seen situations where the replacement really has come into a situation where the person they're replacing has a crappy playstyle, and yes, it can be hard to justify motives behind their posts.

True that replacments can geuss why there predesessers did what they did, But it isnt helpful to town. Have you ever herd of someone replace a scum, And then say The guy i replaxed did all that becuase he was scum? No scum are just going give the same reasins as they would if they was town. Theres not any thing that can be learnt from it.

I find it interesting the last point you made about giving a 'weak reason for the very things I'm accusing him of'. As I said before, I've replaced into games before so I don't really think it's weak, but I'm still interested to know why you're pointing it out? Why isn't it in our best interests to do that? I've noticed that bandwagons seem to form quite fast in this game, and I didn't want that to happen, so I don't get why you made such a point of pointing it out. Are you trying to allude to saying that me and him are scum buddies??

I'm poining it out, Because its counter intuative to ask someone a question, and then give them the ansewr. especialy when you say that is how you hunt scum. I didn't think about you and syke being scumbudies, but it dose explain why you would do that, Howeber i find one sided conections to be wifom when use againts the player who isn't making the conection.

[Erratus Apathos]

If we are going to Mass Clam, We should do it in in order that has scumier players going ealriest. I would sugest that Thevamp picks somone to claim first, and then where each claiment picks who claims next.

[Erratus Apathos]

So, Why exactally are tese votes on me?

[Erratus Apathos]

Killa Seven id also like you to explaine, Why you are votting for me.

[Erratus Apathos]

prssure time

U

nvote. vote killa seven

[Erratus Apathos]

EA why would u vote me for no reason and ask me 2 explain for voting for you, im pretty sure i have explained and ive fos'd you earlier in the game.

You diden't really explain you just said yuo think I a good lynch:

vote ea

he needs pressure, id like a claim outa him. i feel hes a better lynch then me, i have stuff 2 offer tommorow if im not lynched. id rather not express my theorys yet.

and if I recal the fos was becausw i voted occult after he was got hammerd, When in fact I cast the hammer vote.

im interested in hearing from EA about the game it seems like hes layin back now that the heats on me, and voting me gleefully without actually basing and views on me.

I cuold say the same, about your vote for me

[Erratus Apathos]

i think MiFi just Hammerred.

[Erratus Apathos]

I think we should go ahed with the Mass Claim, today.

[Erratus Apathos]

I'm still here

Actually, I'm At the point where I'm almost going to prod everyone.

Infact I am going to prod everyone.

ftr, I didnt proded

[Erratus Apathos]

Err, if either of you had been reading you'd have noticed that I was the one that lead the claims. Pick again. :P

Atualy theres no need for gim to pick (preveiw edit: not that that stopped him) as I'am the only one left to claim, I am bullet proof.

About time that mass claim ended, only tooks us what two weeks to get six claims?

I will rereade the thread some time tonight (real time that is) and post something substantial but theres one thing in particular that goy my attention:

Sendfan: Early on during the massclaim and just now you said town should remain quite until done, But you were first to attack both Destructer and Fireball during the mass claim. Why couldn't those things wait?

[Erratus Apathos]

First things first after readung the thread I see right through AP's avoidence strategy. I just cant see a town doing as little as eh has, thoroughtout the game, to find scum.

Vote: Awesome pants

Sens Fan's attack on Destructor screams blatent setup. Sens told Des to pick the next claim onm his own without any help, Then, when Des obeys Sens and reads the thread to decide the next claim, Sens says thats scummy too. The whole things comes off way oportunistic.

Fos: SensFan

I dont see the argument aginast Syke+Mighty. It look like its just cop + doc + masons = too powerfull to be reasnoable, which is silly, since its the cop doc combo that make that power distrbution favor town not the masons. And opinnions on balence are far from universal anyways. The other argument I saw is Mighty claiming out of turn is scummy and i don't see that one eighter.

[Erratus Apathos]

mod

Time for anither mass prod Please?

Destructor: Cop+doc-+masons are powerful but not out of the real of feasability. just looking throuhg a few compelte mini normals i found 2:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6958
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6636

they both even had a Vig, on top of that and even then the twn losed both. if theres evidence that this particulor mod wouldnt put them all in a game then you have a very good point, Otherwise we're just geussing the setup with nothing to ase it on.

[Erratus Apathos]

what do you mean, by otu of supossed alignment?

[Erratus Apathos]

@EA: Did you get a notification or something that someone tried to kill you? I can't imagine why you wouldn't have mentioned it if you had, though. Why do you not think one of the masons/anybody else is a better lynch than AP?

I wasnt told if I was killed or not

The cases against both Sykedoc and Firebell look really flimsy to me. Really the only thing I see agianst either of them is Ration's day1 play, Other then that I just don't see any thing scummy from them.

As for AP being the best lynch, its not just that he lurked that I suspect him. But also the few meanigful posts he has made is scummy too. Such as Post 462, stands out for me as scum grasping at straws; I dont see how Fireball voting Occult when he already was voting Occult is scummy, and I DEFENITELY don't see why if you did think it was scummy you'd wait three days to bring it up.

I'm still leening towards Sens as the other scum because of the Destructer vote looking likea setup.

[Erratus Apathos]

Today we should lynch MF and if he turns up town, choose from Sens, skye, des and avinashv otherwise we'll obviously lynch skye for the win.

with all the effert you put to suggesting the possability of a mafia mason, I dont see how you can claim that MF comming up scum make syke obvscum.

[Erratus Apathos]

Sens Fan's attack on Destructor screams blatent setup. Sens told Des to pick the next claim onm his own without any help, Then, when Des obeys Sens and reads the thread to decide the next claim, Sens says thats scummy too. The whole things comes off way oportunistic.

Fos: SensFan

responce to this please Sens

[Erratus Apathos]

fireball if yuo're intending to vote ap, the latest vc say s you're not.

[Erratus Apathos]

I still preffer ap's lynch

[Erratus Apathos]

Sens, you only point against me seems to be my desire to wait until I finished my read to claim. That's enough for you to vote someone at lylo?

this still neads to answer. do you suspect him for anythng else?

[Erratus Apathos]

EA and Awesome Pants, who are your top suspects for today and why?

AP for generelly being avoidant of giving input wherever possible

snesfan for attcking des for reading the thread after he told des to choose a claim on his own "without asking or getting advice from anyone" Which required he read the thread

[Erratus Apathos]

vote Awseome Pants

[Erratus Apathos]

However, I would like EA to reiterate the reasoning behind his vote, if he doesn't mind.

Short answer, APs played this game with the focus the of not geting behind anything unless aboslutely necessery And staying under the radar. The few opinions he gives are often inconsistent as well, they change based on which lynch is the easiest

Longer answer involving analysis of his whole game play

Day 1 went by quickly, he posted nothing of value

Day 2, he pushes the syke wagon a little without getting on it. Later he votes fox (des) which he unvotes less than two horse later.

Day 3, first post he seems rather confident that avinash is a GF, yet doesnt vote for him. LAst post of the dat, he puts out his first "real" vote on k7

Day 4, after sykre/MF claim masons he says they're likely scu, as well as giving himself "backup" of one of them being scum when one of them turns town. Despite being strongly against syke/MF at this point, throughout day he spreads suspicion onto sens des and avin.

Day 5, first post after returning, he changes his opinions drasticly from previous day. the mafia mason theory he pushed frequently yesterday is now MF being almost cleared, And des being almost cleared is now agreement with sens. translation: MF lynch is unfeasable, so let's try des instead.

[Erratus Apathos]

Ap never suspected about Des for reading then clamming yesterday despite you bringing it up constently, he could not feasably missed the fact that it happend. Then in 560 Hes suddenly on board for a case hes been ententionally ignoring. Im mentioning you because for comparison, if nothing else youve been consistent regarding des, But AP is just jumping on whatever lynch he could get the easiest.

[Erratus Apathos]

Ok.

How do you feel about des needing to read the thread before paraphrasing his Role PM, especially as Townie...

I do see it as some thingscum is more ilkely to do then town. I dont see why the LAL-style crusade agianst him thouhg, Thus my vibes against you

[Erratus Apathos]

Excellent gambit too EA with claiming bullet proof. I tried to set you up a few times as my partner cause I thought that was the only way we'd be able to get rid of you, but I don't think it really worked. You seemed to know me and Sens were scum too, did you consider switching your vote over to des and winning with us?

Only if I got to hammer

Argh! Nine minutes. That's what happens when you go out to dinner on a deadline night, I guess. Sorry all. Anyway, I think that was a very good game. However, are the town players in agreement that we would've lynched Sensfan the next day upon receiving a guilty on AP? I would've voted for him.

Not that I'm a member of "the town players" but if the game went another day I'd've voted Sens as well.